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Who knows, who cares? Like the 186 issue it's done. Let's move on.

Training started with some warm up laps whilst the coaches had a kick around. Leigh Brown literally hit the fence behind the goals from the halfway line after unleashing a monster torp. Max Gawn was the most vocal during warm up. There were 3 groups of players at training: - Main group - One small group which included Clark, MacDonald, Pederson, Gillies and at times Dawes - Small group withTynan, Kent, Evans and a couple I can't remember The group with Tynan went to the other field for some speed and agility work for a while but were too far away to see anything too detailed apart from how short Kent was. When they finished, Evans came over to the main oval and did some repeat sprints around the boundary by himself. He looks at least 10kg heavier than he did on his debut and was working very hard during the running. Very impressive. Clark's group did a few little handballing drills and a bit of mucking around in good spirits. Gillies looks very settled already and was teaching them some little handball games. Dawes was running times laps at a steady pace by himself before joining in this group after a while. The main group did some full-ground circle work - leading, marking, handballing off to a running player who delivered to the next leading target and so on. Hannath displayed good hands and mobility and Matt Jones had one stand-out run down a wing at full speed with a one-two handpass and a pinpoint kick to finish, which was super impressive. Nicholson's kicking was absolutely fantastic. Viney ran hard but missed a few targets. The players did this drill with real intensity and good skills in general. Dom Barry epitomises the description cat-like. He is a very smooth mover with nice skills but will need to seriously hit the gym. Rodan and Byrnes were extremely vocal in this drill and throughout the session. The main group broke in to two groups and then in to 2 teams in each group. They did a few drills in a box about 20x20m. One drill was simply running from one side to the other while an opposition player tried to tackle you. People like Rodan and Jones were unstoppable, while Nev Jetta was a level above with his sideways movement and goose-steps fooling everybody. Watts had an extremely lack-lustre effort when he tried to pass Strauss with little to no effort and was stopped easily. They then had 3 on 3 trying to get a ball from one end to the other. Notable players were Jones, Jetta and Rodan once again while Howe and Viney were also good. Blease got smashed to the ground between Magner and Rodan after which Rodan picked him up and gave him words of encouragement. After the skills training, the main group broke in to 2 groups for running. The first group consisted of McDonald, Nicholson, Magner, Bail, Jones, Watts and surprisingly Troy Davis. They ran as far as they could for 5 minutes, then 4,3,2,1, with small breaks in between. Nicholson and McDonald were neck and neck leading the main group the first few times, with Watts and Davis finishing at the back of their group, not too far behind. After each bout, Nicholson would cough and wheeze violently before yelling words of encouragement to every other player. Coaches were yelling to Blease and Watts to 'tack-on' to a player for each run and try to beat them. On the last run, Magner blitzed them and ended up 15m in front of Nicholson and was absolutely stuffed. All in all, it was a very hard session and the standard was high. Standouts for me were Rodan, Magner, Jetta, Nicholson, McDonald.

If managed properly it should not be too much of a problem. I had one at the age of 48 whilst in the middle of training for the 2000 Sydney marathon. I still managed to complete the marathon eight weeks after diagnosis. I still argue that it robbed me of the opportunity to set a new world record. I had to be content with 4 hours, 55 minutes, but I'm still running twelve years later with no further problems.

I would much prefer we blow this up in the courts than admit guilt. We did nothing more than what clubs do in losing seasons in any competitive sport that has a draft. And we did nothing wrong.

You are RR trying to make an arse-about point? I don't know if Trengove would have left if someone gave him $6m to - that an unknowable hypothetical or an 'unknown unknown' as Don Rumsfeld would have said. What I do know is that he agreed to stay, during 2011 when it all was turning to sh!t, till 2015. Loyalty in footy maybe dead, but that doesn't mean there are not good people playing for the MFC.

OK - five points 1/ Please point to exactly which rule we have broken 2/ If you can point to rule that we have broken, the AFL needs to unambiguously state the definition of the rule we have broken and then have proof of exactly how the rule was broken ( ie playing players in wrong positions constitutes tanking, resting players constitutes tanking...etc). 3/ If point 1 & 2 are put forward by the AFL and since the "crimes" were done in the past, there needs to be clear and unambiguous statements/actions by the AFL that other clubs will be held to exactly the same standards and investigations ( and presumably charges) have to be made into other clubs. Carlton, Collingwood, Stkilda, Richmond, WCE, Hawthorn are in trouble and even Freo's and GWS's actions in one game each would have to breach the standard. 4/ Unless players were told to go out and lose and unless there is an action plan in writing on how to lose, comments by an administrator that are open to interpretation or players who had a feeling for what was happening (Brock) would hardly constitute proof of anything - or again if these are accepted as proof then they are the standard and Richmond must meet the same standard in terms of Wallace's Cotchen statement and Carlton with their Fevola and Barry Mitchell statements. 5/ Lastly - I have never been paranoid about the AFL being out to get us - but this will be severely tested if there is a hard finding against us after the sissy, nancy boy, amby pampby handling of Tippett case and the penalties brought down for a cut and dried case that was not open to any interpretation what so ever edit - I think that should read namby pampby and you can add fairy floss marshmellow sooky la la as well

Trengove is going to be a better player than Grimes. I thought Trengove was running well a few weeks back, so I was surprised to see a couple of posters saying he looked really slow a week ago, but the latest set back would go a long way to explaining those reports. While it's not ideal, it's nothing to get overly concerned about. Round 1 is 4 months away. I do feel supporters exaggerate issues on here.

AASB 1004 is controversial - and under review - because it runs contrary to the spirit of matching which underpins accounting as a whole Many profitable organisations fall over because they mismanage their cash flows - and many profitable organisations defer ( or avoid) tax because the concepts are different. Clearly you are at odds with the Foundation Heroes. IF they didn't believe we could muster sufficient financial firepower to win a premiership they wouldn't have put in $700k. Surely that's the point. For several years now our financial performance has been better than our on-field performance. Despite the drag of consistent on-field losses, we've broken even. Win some games - draw some crowds - give sponsors finals exposure - and the funds will start to flow.

He also approached the club and signed up for an extra 4 or 5 years immediately following the 186 point loss. He didn't have to, but clearly he wanted to make a statement of loyalty and commitment to the club. All the evidence is that this guy has loyalty in spades. I disagree with the post above - loyalty is not only for supporters, and it is not only reserved for matters sports-related. To the contrary, loyalty is rooted in one's character. Everyone has different settings. And that's why some here can't see why a player would remain loyal to a club in the face of extra $$$ and some can see it - in short, we're not all configured the same way. For instance, some of my mates don't understand why I give cash to the MFC and why I'm a Foundation/Debt Demolition Member etc. They think it's a complete waste of money. Yet, for me, it's an absolute no brainer. For some people, it's not all about the dough.

Geez....I'd hate to see this site if we posted a loss.....

So this is what the inside of a whale looks like.

I havent and wont peddle the defense that we should get off because others have done the same thing. What I am strong in my view on, is if the AFL set standards/definitions of "tanking" and we are found guilty of what we did in the past then so be it. However then the AFL must also apply the same standards to ALL clubs and what they have done in the past. This is not a call to use other clubs actions as a defense - its a call for equality in dispensing justice.

TO be honest this thread has gone crazy. We posted a modest, but consecutive profit under considerable circumstances, which is amazing considering other clubs (*cough* Brisbane, Geelong, Western Bulldogs *cough*). Be happy with this. If you have some preference with either the Gardner or Stynes Board take it somewhere else. But know this - both boards do this work mostly pro bono and to help the MFC - neither would risk cooking the books. This is the best statement I can make being bipartisan.

Yes you're very much alone on that statement!!, the kid (yes currently 21 years old) is going to be an absolute gun

She's determined to sustain her view that we "pathetic and disgusting". The word "tanking" has become a joke - so she's trying to coin a phrase that sounds "incriminating" - hence the term "deliberately forfeit" As you point out, that insinuation flies in the face of the facts ......... and highlights just how absurd the whole thing is!! Anderson called for this ridiculous investigation while Demetriou was away. Perhaps this demonstrated to "the powers that be " that Anderson hasn't got the judgment necessary to climb further up the AFL management ladder. Wishful thinking perhaps - but the timing is interesting. Let's face it, he's just dug the AFL into one heck of a hole

They haven't interviewed Santa yet. Remember....'everyone and anyone'

When was the last time Rhino Richards posted on here when it wasn't in response to someone else's post and it was of a positive nature? He lives for the attack and seems to delight in trying to ridicule others; is that also the role of a moderator?

AFL is just draging it out for as long as they can so they can say : We wanted to get this right to put this to bed for good and the MFC is not guilty of Tanking. We take the integrity of our game very serious. We want to thank MFC for being very open through the whole saga.

I'll have first crack. It was cold, very bloody cold for a Nov session. Windy, was blowing a bit of a gale straight down the ground, it was on the ground Pies normally train on. As you can see from pics the Pres was there, Schawbby, Viney, Mahon's and a few others from the 'office' dropped by at certain points. Neeld loves to mess about with the coaches and players, in fact all the coaches do before sessions start. Seems like a great tight coaching group. Tappy arrived late, right hammy strapped up (sad face). The light drills group was larger today than last time I was down, Tappy, Mitch C, Russian, Flash, Spencil, Toumpas, Mckenzie, J Mac and one other. Hogs and Gawn did maybe 3 laps then headed across to oval set up with league goal posts with Tynan and Kent to work on agility and build load into the legs. Dawes running laps on his own before doing some in close ball work with Russ and couple of others before heading in. Col did all warm up but got to the end of the 2nd warm up drill and came off to get wrist, maybe thumb taped up. He went back out but headed off again at around half 10, didn't see him come back by the time I left at around 11.20. After warm up they moved into 2 tackling based drills. Far side was technique on backs then 'british bulldog' type exercise. As has been stated from previous sessions technique is go in low at the hips, head to the side grip and lift. Near side were 3 players in green, 3 in blue keepings of type drill. Players from both groups started 5m apart and each group had to get around a set of cones before ball was put in play and feed directly to one of the 3 blue players. Blue players had to then break through the 3 green players and get to a cone another 5m away. Main focus seemed to be working in tight, positioning, trying to stand and dish of in tackles for blues while greens was the tackling technique from above, in low at hips... I thought Howe, Jones, Fitzy and Jetta were stand outs of this. Dom Barry was getting a fair bit of feedback form Greeve's, Dom is a stick at present and really needs to get the technique right. Interesting to see Greeve's and one other coach recording this drill on ipads for future review and also showing Barry replays of how he was going during the drill. Next drill was 3 teams, green, white and blue. Set up so blue team had ball trying to keep it off green team. Blue had to get it to 8 (wild guess) consecutive handballs without a turnover, if achieved green team would sprint across to other wing where white team was waiting. Green would then try and strip off white team... then white team would sprint across to other wing and go against blue team... blue team would then come across to the other wing etc etc. I hope I was able to explain that one... Again another drill focussing on in close, contested work before being able to spread as hard as possible. I didn't really see any stand outs on this, maybe other did. Barry left main group at about 10 past 11 to do some agility work with Tynan, Kent etc. Howe also left main group around here and headed inside. Last drill I saw (too cold had to leave!!) was a full ground drill where blue team had to move the ball down the ground from defence. Little bit like circle work starting at full back but with a number of green 'defenders' trying to force a blue turn over.... they did this pretty easily. While it was windy indeed and it is early in preseason plenty of balls hit the ground or green team was able to intercept/tackle etc. Overall from the time I was there it was a really solid standard session, everything timed to the second, every drill thought out and preplanned. Plenty of improvements, yet we still have a long way to go but each session is a step forward. I hope I can get down towards the end of preseason to a couple of sessions to compare against the last 2 sessions I have been too. I don't envy the team going to Darwin to do the kind of sessions they do here in the heat and humidity, hope all goes well and they come back hungry to keep improving.

Calm Down Walter.

The slander against my good name is preposterous.I have seen photographs and it is impossible for me, a dark, handsome and well bred Spaniard to make ficky, ficky with this person. Could I suggest this is a case of mistaken identity? Perhaps, my very good friend Manuel from Barthelona?

The dealers would still supply cheaper than the authorities and the spiral would continue with even more addicts...

although it's an interesting concept, it's really impossible to say. I think that we should be grateful that we have Trengove and what we have gotten in return for Tom Scully.

I think you left out one...the players' managers. And my suspicion is that the managers are the ones who 'gossip' about what they were able to get a player as a way of marketing their own business.

It was closed crawf52 as a preventative measure against flaming. No hard feelings.You should find solace and sunshine here in the Optimists thread. Understand the frustration and you've always got the option of the ignore function if need be. The thing in common with all is the best interests of the Melbourne Football Club, just that fans/members/posters have different views on how to get *there. *And "there" may be represented by different objectives or methods. Hell, there might even be a different goal for some supporters..

I was listening to SEN this morning while driving. As usual i was yelling abuse at Venom Denham. Look sideways to see someone doing a similar thing, two windows down and the other driver said F------ Denham? I have been smiling ever since

Not sure why you are going out of your way to emphasise and re-emphasise the case for the prosecution. I may agree with you but - I'm certainly not going to broadcast it ahead of all the legitimate points we can raise in our defence. Caro has well and truly promoted the prosection case already - we need to restore the balance by putting the other side of the argument. Nutbean's five points below are compelling. These are the points we should be promoting - not just in support of the MFC but in the interests of natural justice! (PS Whatever else you might say about the Richmond game, we still put a team on the field that was good enough - and motivated enough- to be in front when the siren sounded) All good stuff No objective football follower who attended both the Kreuzer Cup and the McMahon Memorial could possibly conclude that Melbourne alone committed a crime

Or maybe it demonstrates why he has been less than stellar? This cloud may have a silver lining.

Yes, most of us don't like wearing the hair shirt, but if you feel the need to go for it, I have a crown of thorns going free as well

Why is it that I don't feel any great loss at this news. I am surprised by my reaction. Perhaps it is due to my suspicion that JT is an average player not the champion I hoped for. Am I alone ?

You're the one that's bleating not me, you can't help yourself, every time something good comes out of the club you jump on it and look for the negative. Have you seen the accounts, have you any reason to believe they are cooked and that payments have been delayed to allow for a profit? You can criticise the board all you like and you certainly like to, but do you think you might slip some positivity in to it as well? This is a Melbourne supporters board but I do expect to see criticism as well as praise and I've given the club heaps over the recruiting but what about credit when it's due. You however, you're something else. It's you not me that keeps bringing this up last two times it's been mentioned it's been in your posts so wtf are you on about? I don't know what you do for the club, or what you've done for the club and to be quite honest I don't really care but from what you post on here I guess they have got up your nose somehow. You and Rhino only ever come on here to have a go at someone or the club, ever thought of having a go at posting something positive. We all know the club is down at the moment and probably fractured to some extent, so how about you just get behind the club instead of just finding the negative, or that just to hard for you?

it was named back in the days of white only underwear. A tourist passing through the suburb noticed Hawthorn colours on all the underwear in the settlement . The word Skidmark had not been invented at the time so it was given its current nomenclature which has.......... stuck.

I believe FNQ Demon will be attending for the 9 days.

What would the club be guilty of?

I think all the crocs in Kakadu cleared out of there when they heard that Jack Viney was coming.

Not a legal type, but I am confident the club will have filed that one away in the memory bank. It's a big statement. It could come back to bite her big time.

The rest may fix up the OP that we have all diagnosed here . Anyway-he will ave time to do some puzzles .

Prove it.

Unfairfax News believes that the AFL must come down heavily on the club for breaching privacy laws in relation to McLean's condition. McLean is trying to rebuild his faith in the system after the pathetic and disgusting treatment he received from the Melbourne Football Club in 2009. If it is found that Melbourne CEO Cameron Schwab is involved in this latest slur, then he should be remanded in custody pending formal charges. Carlton captain Chris Judd whose fitness for the role McLean has questioned is reported to have told his wife Rebecca (pictured) that he doesn't place any credence on the views of VFL players.

We ran him into the ground. Nice work fitness guys.

... and in other breaking news tonight, AFL's outgoing football operations chief Adrian Anderson has commenced an investigation into the Carlton Football Club following comments made by player Brock McLean alleging the Blues brought the game into disrepute by tanking in that they failed to put the best personnel into their leadership group in the latter half of season 2012. Unnamed sources point to the result of Carlton's game v lowly Gold Coast Suns at Carrara as clear evidence that the club forfeited the game but CEO Greg Swan says his club will strenuously defend the claim on the basis that McLean was suffering from foot in mouth disease when he made his comments.

Good point. I am sure the reindeer have a lot to add to this.

Merged to the Dean Kent thread. And a few posts from "Todd's Assessment" thread removed.

You heard what you wanted to hear, Anderson did not commit either way and it was more a point of saying we will not be rushed in any way and basically media can bleat all they like it wont fast track the investigation

I'd expect a moderator to be objective when it comes to making decisions on what is and isn't appropriate content for the forum, but I take the view that a moderator can hold whatever opinion they like on topical matters, no matter how extreme.

Robbie your bleating is becoming rather tiresome. You seem to think that the current administration is beyond critique and that all blame lies with the past administration and that's your right. But stop thinking you're better than the rest because if you can look past your misguided prejudice you'll see the comments about our accounts are quite valid. Why do you think we've made as many recruiting errors as we have? Because we can't compete with the recruiting departments of other clubs. Why do you think we have been mismanaged in the past. Because we haven't had the funds to employ top administrators. If you think that our current position isn't in some way related to our lack of funds you're kidding yourself. The comments that I have made have nothing to do with Gardner or Stynes or McLardy, they have everything to do with a realistic analysis of our financial position. You rate yourself as a supporter and I rate you too because you've put your hand deep in your pocket. So have others here but they don't go around telling everyone. You've got no idea what I have done for the club in the past nor what I'm doing now. But despite this you want me to cease my support because I dare to question. Our club will be stronger if it's questioned but you're obviously [censored] yourself that some anonymous poster on Demonland can have a detrimental effect. How pathetic would the club be if that were the case. Are you really worried what I can do or what RR can do. I reckon that McLardy and Schwab are big boys and can stand being questioned.and I reckon that we will better if we understand our position and don't have people painting unrealistic and false rosy financial pictures when in fact things ain't that rosy. Nobody here has been anything but positive about the wonderful job this Board has done reducing the debt and the role of the Foundation Hero's. But it's simply folly to think that because we manage to scrape together a break even situation with a still underfunded FD we are out of the woods. I'd suggest you welcome anyone who supports the club and have a little more confidence in those that are running it than to think they can't cope with sensible debate. Your pathetic waffle is so insulting to them it's actually mind boggling.

In which game did we not field a side?

Two things really annoy me about this lingering joke of an investigation: 1. The reputational harm the MFC continue to suffer due to its ongoing nature; and 2. The ludicrous amount of money and resources that have likely been spent by the AFL to date (and continue to be spent) conducting it. Money that could have been better spent in countless other worthy ways.

That's worth a LOL. My points of view are my own, I call it as I see it. Sometimes I get it wrong but on the most part my instincts serve me well. Cheers.

A few less bicep curls and a few more laps to build up his engine and learn how to force himself outside his comfort zone, wouldn't go astray this preseason. Has all the moves, we all know it, just needs to want to be more than a talented bloke, making a good living playing AFL footy and learn to compete ruthlessly for more than cheap kicks and the odd running goal from fifty out.