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Bloke wants photo. Players pose for photo. This is not news, someone at The Age needs to take control of the situation and stop the campaign they have running against us. It is making a mockery of their sports section and credibility as a newspaper.

If there's one thing this is not about it's the idea of sparing the club and its officials from scrutiny for their actions. You're quite right in pointing out that a strong club needs to be able to respond in those circumstances but, in this case (because of the legal ramifications) it can't even do that at this point in time. However, the core of what this is about is the practice of engaging in a McCarthyist witch hunt against one AFL club and its officials using ad hominem attacks based on rumour and innuendo, without proof and with the aim of trashing the club's brand and affecting people's livelihoods. To extend this to the giving of succor and legitimacy to the perpetrator of those attacks is what I find totally unacceptable but it should be noted that nobody (as far as I'm aware) has been prevented from expressing that point of view on this thread.

I don't know who Fan is - or indeed who anyone is on this site ........ so I don't relate to these discussions about hidden agendas. I do know that individuals get hurt in the cutthroat world of AFL football - and that it is human nature to try exact some form of retribution against those who have hurt us. But at the end of the day the club is bigger than the individual - and I would expect that all of us on this site would want to see us climb the on-field and financial ladders as soon as possible. The facts are that our club - at the instigation of a disgruntled former player - is currently the subject of an unprecedented investigation - and that a prominent journalist s using it to try to trash our brand. Whether or not we alone committed a crime in placing long-term needs ahead of short-term needs is problematical at best - yet we face penalties which could destroy the hopes of all of us. We should all be putting aside our personal animosities and shouting from the rooftops the one incontrovertible fact in play here - that the future success of our club is under threat because the AFL is considering using a scapegoat to justify the fact that it built a process designed to encourage clubs to bottom out. Do you want Wilson to be able to say in her next article that a number of Melbourne supporters agree with her, Do you agree that we should be that scapegoat? We are the ONLY club being investigated at the moment - we should ALL be protesting

Theres a recruiter from GWS who writes fantastic notes on all the kids but they are often smeared with tomato sauce, gravy , jam , pies,cakes etc so we have to go by Emma Quayle.

I'm more concerned that Tappy's hangin' out with Moloney and Sylvia.

+1 for the I'd never heard of him brigade. The only disappointment for me is Tapscott's choice of company.

I'd really be worried if the blokes were photographed in the company of Caroline Wilson but this bloke - pfft!!! Fairfax is intent on becoming Australia's News of The World.

"DEMONS COMMIT HOLIDAY!!"

Do I wear a protective shell on my back?

This thread is just an excuse for me to jack up my post-count without contributing anything. I've got a lot of work to do if I want to catch WYL.

No way. We've made chicken salad out of chicken s**t here.

Who do you think took the photo?Watts is a well known gangster from the infamous Brighton gang. All the players involved should be crucified for going to the Hard Rock. The drugs and strippers are much better down the road.

Just quietly, that's not always a good sign...

Has anybody asked whether this guy is ''gangster'' because if he was he would not have been allowed to enter the United States because of his criminal record, which he musnt have if he was over there

I often wonder when I read articles like this, what goes through the author's head at the time. If it were me, as my fingers busily worked away at the keys, I'd be thinking, "how did I become this? I'm not a journalist, I'm just a fraud". They probably don't have the presence of mind, though, which is how they became that in the first place.

this is conclusive and irrefutible evidence that we tanked in 2009.

Don't have any links but my uncle heard it on the radio yesterday. They should also be investigated for paying Richard Tambling, anything...

I like how Moloney is counting how many kicks he got this year.

I went to training today. It was the second time I have been this year and I went to about ten pre-season training sessions last year. I can see improvement on the track from my observations. Whether this translates to victories in games I'm not sure but I think it might. I get the feeling as others have said that Neeld and co. are working to a plan and we are in year two of the roll out of it. Last year at this stage we had only done fairly basic skill stuff and were heavily into running. There was a smaller main group and lots of modified programs, still mainly to do with improving fitness. From there we went into the season with a basic and, after five weeks, a heavily criticised game plan of kicking long down the line to a contest, a slow laborious and ultimately, losing plan. This pre-season there are marked differences. Firstly the main group is larger in number, around 27 players today for instance. As a group compared to last year they are fitter, stronger and bigger. Secondly we are already practicing different ways to move the ball, early doors there is much more emphasis on the skills of the game. As Ben Hur said they were doing stoppage work today and a form of circle work which was all about running, kicking handballing and timing. Jack Watts is great to watch at this uncontested stuff, he is a great kick on both sides of his body and his timing when he attacks the ball is sublime. But yes it is uncontested. I think the third area we might see improvement is in the personnel. In previous years so many of our players have been unfit injured or of a poor attitude. The step up in professionalism over the two years and the boys' approach to training would be pretty obvious to most who go to watch them train. Individuals who are a chance to improve next year if training is anything to go by; Sam Blease. As we all saw showed glimpses last season and in a couple of the stoppage drills today showed his class. I think he may improve again in 2013. Tappy. He had no pre-season at all last year and in some of the gut running in the two sessions I've been to this pre-season he has kept up with Jones and Nicho and looks terrific. In the stoppage drill today whenever the blue team got the ball and went back from the stoppage they went wide out to Tappy on the wing/ half forward line in a set play that looked good. In the running after he ran with Viney, Spencer, Byrnes, Taggert, Rodan, McKenzie, Jones and Davey in repeat 1000 metre or some set time running thing (pretty brutal) and in the first one he blew them away. Unfortunately in the second run (they'd have about a minutes rest in between) he pulled up sore in his ankle/calf. Shame as he is flying but hopefully not too big a set back. Neville Jetta. He had a shocking run with injuries but is in the main group so far and looks good. In the stoppage work he featured a couple of times for the orange vests clearing the ball through traffic. He's tough. I'm not sure he will make it and I've watched him in games after reading positive things about him on here and I'm still not sold but if he is going to make it then at least he's giving himself every chance for 2013. Rory Taggert. He was in an orange vest and pitted against Magner or Rodan mainly and he did OK. I think he is a watch for 2013. He has nice size and got a couple of clearances for the orange vests that showed talent. Later in the running he completed them all but just ahead of Davey. At this stage I just hope he completes all the pre-season work. Spencer and Sellar. They did the ruck work and both went OK. I remember last pre-season Spencer couldn't get on the track with a knee injury. This year in the running sessions he is up front and really pushing himself, if he can continue he won't lack for fitness. In the stoppage work he was with the blues and got most of the taps, Rodan especially was at his feet and away a lot of times. He is definitely number 2 ruckman and may even push Jamar for number 1 spot in 2013. Sellar showed he can be a pinch hitter in the ruck if we only go in with one ruckman in games. Jack Watts. The main thing I reckon has changed for the better for Jack is he appears to have gained a bit more respect from the group from last pre-season. And he's settled. Last pre-season he was going to be a forward. I remember him having a push and shove with Frawley one day and coming off looking rather silly. Also Leigh Brown the forward line coach could just rag doll him in wrestling/marking drills. Mind you Brown could do that to most but it was like they were testing Watts and he wasn't testing too well. This pre-season he appears to be a respected, well performed and settled member of the group and he is training really well, well for two sessions anyway, I hope it continues. Shannon Byrnes and D-Rod. Both training well. Both professional attitude. Both showed off good skills. Nathan Jones. I remember last pre-season people on here were questioning his worth in the team and maybe fair enough as well but if one player has thrived under Neelds and Missons structured training regime its him. He is fit and well and massive. He is the natural leader of the group, especially the mid-field and a great role model. I also think the addition of Rodan and maybe Viney will help him to maybe get outside a bit more and hopefully get into the elite category in the league. (well maybe Sheahan's top 50 anyway for a start) Today in the running he started 10 or 15 seconds behind all the other runners and I think they might have done six repeats and in about the fifth run he came up alongside Viney who was leading and then Leigh Brown joined in (he would join in for the last minute, he's big but he's fit and he can really carve out some sectionals and he encourages them along, great to watch) and they ran flat out for the last 30 seconds, Jones got in front but Viney came back and beat him. Negatives. Grimes is in rehab group with a bandage on one of his hammy's, really hope he gets back soon. I hate to say it, I'm no doctor and its crazy to put a dampener on a positive training report but I think Clark is a long way off. Sylvia. Last pre-season he was in modified program and same this pre-season. Status Quo for his attitude. No leader. Anyway Whispering Jack I really enjoyed reading your thread on Timing of the Shrew so hopefully you enjoy my report. I do think we'll improve in 2013.

Where does it say anything about a strong go home factor? Also, the surgery he had on his hips is not a big deal. I had the same operation 2 years ago and then ran a marathon 6 months later (which included 3 months of training). Plus I played a full season of footy straight afterwards. You don't know what you are talking about.

Finally, a picture of the elusive Caro "Flathead" Wilson, Melbourne's clumsiest mobster. She knew all the tricks, hyperbole, hyperbole and ... er, hyperbole. I've seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than meet Caro.

Before anyone ever kicks more goals than they previously have there's no evidence they can. With me ? What I do know is that in 2011 prior to getting injured he averaged 1.75 goals per game from his first 12 games. If one extrapolates that it becomes 39 over 22. In fact, bearing in mind that Collingwood played 25 games that year he was on target to reach 45 goals. Dawes is 24 and coming into his prime years as a key forward. I don't see that it's much of a stretch to think he can bump that 1.75 average up to 2.2, which would see him hit the 50 goal mark.

Fixed.

I heard he is at the Carlscum games every week but hey ,Mick Gatto can barrack for whoever he likes .I wish he was a Demons fan .We could get him to "negotiate" with "The Age" and Vlad for us .

Tim, Tim, Tim... I know Fan is revered on here and having met him and had beers with him I know why. What a fantastic personality It's hardly surprising that the same old loyal posters come scurrying to his aid. I might have once too. It's human nature. But I'm afraid his personal connections to members of the previous Board have severely clouded his thinking and decision making. the fact that he walked away from this thread rather than defend his assertions is telling. Tim, I'm not sure if you realise this, but there's presently an investigation into the club that has yet to be concluded. That means no findings have been presented back to the club, or the AFL Commission. There's no need to sack any official, there's no need to castigate anyone, because the investigation is on-going. Tim, perhaps you and Fan have been reading Wilson's articles and have concluded in your own mind that your club is guilty and that those responsible need to be held to account. I haven't, Tim, because I'm waiting for the findings. And in the light of an age old and possibly anachronistic principle I'm defending the club and anyone associated with it with the premise that they're innocent until proven guilty. I appreciate that it's not a legal trial, but it could end up in the courts and it's a principle to be valued in a formal investigation of this nature. And unlike Fan, where Wilson has used personal bile in opinion pieces, such as "pathetic and disgusting" I shan't be saying, "Keep up the good work, Caro." Tim, the burden of proof lies with who declares, not who denies. Yet you're trying to tell me how a right wing conservative should think ? Good one. More extraordinarily Tim, you equate the club's on-field position under Bailey in 2011, which was terribly poor, to be of a crisis the equivalent of this ? Have you completely lost your mind ? This investigation is extremely serious. If found guilty of bringing the game into disrepute the sanctions could be onerous. Similar sanctions set the Carlton Football Club back a decade. They're probably still noticing the ramifications even now. Not to mention that the reputation of the club has a permanent stain. In 2011 Tim, I had evidence that Bailey was a [censored] coach. He'd been at the helm for 4 years and it was time to go. Clearly the club agreed with me, as he was sacked. So I was hardly the lone ranger. But in this instance the club is being investigated in a manner that has far greater repercussions than whether we had a decent coach. And I'm waiting to see irrefutable evidence that our club fixed matches. I'm also waiting to see what definition could be used to determine what constitutes "fixing matches". Are you able to help me out, Tim ? But let me be clear. Your insinuation that the club's on-field predicament under a poor coach in 2011 is the equivalent to the club being investigated for possible match fixing charges that it denies is patently absurd. I'll be defending the club to the hilt until these allegations are decided. My reaction to those at the club is dependent upon findings that are yet to be handed down. You, Fan and his cheerleaders can please yourselves.

wines or toumpas......we can't lose either way.

I've had the same procedure, along with most players in the AFL. It's more a prevention thing to make sure the ball of your hip fits perfectly into the socket mitigating wear and tear down the line. It the reason why you rarely hear of osteitis pubis anymore, they found the cause so they prevent it to avoid needing to cure. Absolutely not a problem.

Let's keep it simple and blame Jack Watts for this.

If anyone needs further reminding of the proposition I put in my previous post, I commend them to view last week's edition on catch up TV of ABC's Offsiders programme (11/11/12) which featured Wilson as a panellist. The others were Roy Masters and Francis Leach and they were as one in their groupthink in condemning Melbourne as being guilty without charge of ... er, alleged "match fixing". It's no longer called "tanking" or "experimentation", no other AFL club was mentioned. Needless to say, no real evidence was presented but it never is when you're putting on a show trial. Goebells and Joe McCarthy would have been proud.

Geez.....The Age has really climbed to new depths. "...... now appears to be linked to the MFC". This obscure [censored], Houston, now appears to be linked to Caroline Wilson, poor bugger. And, of course, they could not resist the totally irrelevant tanking allegations!

I just feel sorry for Cameron Houston. Probably had the most honourable of intentions going into journalism but finds himself having to write sensationalist tabloid fodder for the once great Melbourne Age.

Yes we are a laughing stock but it's because we are factionalized and can't keep our fighting to in house, we like to do it in public. There are too many that have an axe to grind or a score to settle or some other agenda; I'm sick of these clowns with their bruised egos, putting themselves ahead of the club. I don't care if some previous board members feel they don't get the recognition they believe they deserve, I don't care if they don't like Connolley or Schwab. If they feel aggrieved take it up with the board or run for the board, but don't air your dirty laundry in public. We are like a patient that was on life support and whether you like it or not Jimmy and McLardy breathed some life in to us, we now are financial and seemingly on the right track, but instead of rejoicing our dissenters are happy to tear it all down to make a point or settle a score. You talk about allowing thee people the right to voice their opinions but don't seem to be too keen on allowing others to respond, it's a two way street. I have no doubt that there have been mistakes made and that Connolley and Schwab have made a few but to sack them would be an admission we were wrong even if we weren't. It would seem that it would be giving in to Wilson; well I couldn't give a [censored] about her and I'm not prepared to give her the satisfaction. It would confirm to the rest of the football World that we are as weak as [censored] and give in as soon as the pressure is applied; I doubt the club are as weak as some of the supporters here. This site is available for the use of all Dees supporters but I question the motives of those that use it to continually run down the club.

It is important to discern when evidence leads conclusion, and when conclusion leads evidence.

The thought occurred to me when I saw the thread title that this was a joke. It is kind of laughable, I wonder if Caroline hand balled this one to the cub reporter because it was just that stupid. Also if players are going to be put in for getting their photo taken with shady characters they better ban cameras at Collingwood's family day next year.

All of these third party deals dodgey. There should be a independent body that looks at these deals, not one that is run by the AFL.it seem that the AFL. Allows these deals to the clubs they want to help at that time.

Are you saying Cam Pedersen was there too? Must find that guy a new nickname...

I doubt they even knew who he was. I've never heard of him. Is this seriously news....

I doubt they even knew who he was. I've never heard of him. Is this seriously news....

It is ridiculous. I'm sure he didn't introduce himself as "Hey bro, I'm King Fiddy, I promote fully sick combat sports and have connections to the Rebels and Comancheros motorbike gangs."

I actually think that it's one of the sad and unfortunate things about internet/social media. Some clown is in a photo with some footballers, and it makes the news. It only puts further distance between players and the general public. Just quietly, I am happy Col appears to have a water on him!!!!

Dean Bailey had no idea about modern, contemporary footy. The list was full of skinny 65 kilo boys who had no mongrel. NFI to the max.

I'd want a better player for a top 5 pick and that's no disrespect to Sidebottom. There's an under and over-rated thread on BF and it's interesting how often Wines appears in the 'over' category. I like what he offers, but as I've stated a couple of times, he appears to lack the "class" you expect with a top 5 draft pick.

I was almost certain that this would be a thread about Mark Neeld.

If JT sneaks through this is a no brainer. If he does not Wines is a great Plan B Whatever outcome on Thursday we will win bigtime.

Sorry a bit confused, what drugs were they dealing?

Earlier this year I happened to be at an Essenendon Football Club function where Andrew Demetriou spoke. He mentioned the AFL's new media department, and basically he said it was created because the AFL were sick of the rubbish the mainstream media were producing. Like him or not, these kind of articles highlight why the AFL want some control over how the game is covered in the media.

Seriously what has journalism come to. Sure as hell Sylvia has prior misdemeanors and a percentage of bikie gangs involve themselves in criminal activities but from one photo they have: - Sylvia's record - Didak's record - Hudson shooting - Dodgy boxing promotion - Bikie gangs And just to be smart that throw in a line about Melbourne tanking. It really wouldn't be worth the effort or the additional media scrutiny and the papers know it but surely you could even consider a law suit if you were one of these players for the paper suggesting you have criminal links.

Key difference between our player's leg speed and our teams ball speed. I think our ball speed will improve with an improved structure and understanding of the game plan, i.e. we'll be more decisive in our ball movement, players will know where to run to, etc... Leg speed is great to break lines but as the Hawks have shown recently so are great kickers. The value of a Blease (leg speed) or a Watts (great kick) is in their ability to break a line and deliver it to the advantage of our structure. This results in rapid ball speed.

Excellent post Steve, although I think you're pigeon holing the term "inside mid" a tad, which is where Wisbey's term 'first dibs' really comes into play. In other words, there are inside mids and there are inside mids, if you get my drift. Wines isn't an elite kick and as you say Viney is better. Viney isn't elite, but he's a very good kick. It's the one question mark that I also have on Wines. This is where I put my faith in the recruiters. Watson was a poor kick, but has improved it immeasurably, Josh Kennedy is a good kick for goal, but not an elite field kick, Scotty Thompson isn't an elite kick, Swan isn't, Boyd isn't, Selwood is a good kick, but not elite... I'll leave it up to the recruiters who have seen far more of him than me. But if Toumpas slips to 4 I'd be taking him.