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I managed to pop over to Gosch's Paddock. Twas a good session. Lots of stoppage work with an AFL field umpire and boundary umpire joining in part of the session. Players in orange vests defending and those in blue vests hunting the ball. Trengove, Jones, Rodan, McKenzie in blue, which indicated their likely status in the pecking order and Viney joined them by switching over halfway through. Rodan was the stand out. His inside work was exceptional. A staff member stood near the contests and taped these drills and did the odd playback to a coach or player. There were around the ground throw-ups, boundary throw-ins and centre square ball-ups. It was a full-ground simulation with forwards and backs, but they stopped each drill as soon as it was cleared, so the forwards and backs were more for structure/placement. Also had long kicking drills where the ball was constantly switched across ground and back inside before hitting the diagonal flanks. Lots of talk and lots of running at high speed. There was urgency and the players were encouraged to run at full tilt once ball was in possession. There would be two or three footballs constantly in play as the drill rotated around the ground. In the main the skills were good. Today's sessions encompassed stoppage work, ruckwork with Spencer and Sellar, hard running with spread, tackling/evasion, teamwork handballs, switching of play, and kicking skills. There's a tangibly different feel to training this year. It's hard to describe, but there's a buoyancy. Training is very professional and everything seems to be timed to the minute. There were also other shorter drills that involved quick handballs and evasive techniques to avoid tackles in smaller groups. The main group finished by walking over to the tan. Those that I saw, but didn't do the main session included Grimes, Gawn, Sylvia, Evans, Hogan, Clark, Jamar, Fitzpatrick, Tynan. I didn't see Dawes or Barry.

Yes, they're with the main group, as is Gillies and Byrnes. The main knock on Gillies is his kicking, which definitely needs continued work. He's fitting in well and moves with pace. Jetta looks good. I don't quite see a place in the best 22, but I like his effort. He has a crack and will get games. Evans looks to be a while off joining the main group, but the club obviously rate him. I saw him play at Frankston late in the year and we'd benefit from his pace and natural spread. He's a bit of a forgotten man, but he offers a fair bit. Needs to tighten his kicking. Taggert is training well. Rodan spends a fair bit of time specifically with Viney and Taggert. He's taken them under his wing. He was matched up on Viney for some of the stoppage work when Viney was in an orange vest and at the end of some of the drills he spent time counselling Viney on positioning, etc. I was ambivalent about Rodan joining the club, in fact, I was probably against it. Going to training has changed my mind. It's extraordinary to say, but he's already like a glue amongst the playing group. His encouragement never stops. But just as importantly, he's a really good trainer. His kicking is great and he moves so well. I'll be curious to see how his year pans out. Back to Taggert. His upper body needs a little work, but he'll develop into a very strong mid, as the frame is there. His legs and core are already really big. He moves well and is a good kick.

Been to 3 dees sessions so far, went and watched the saints this morn. Even though I am biased to the dees, must say our sessions have been a lot sharper and more intense than what I saw this morn. I know it's November but with our recruits, keeping this years draft Picks and the standard of training I've seen it's hard not to get excited. I have signed up for membership for my first time.

And a request to posters...can we try and keep this thread to actual training reports and not slanging matches about posters' views. Plenty of room for that elsewhere.

Read more: http://www.theage.co...l#ixzz2CKVc6vTv Read more: http://www.theage.co...l#ixzz2CKWTS36S Balanced reporting or evidence of [censored]? The likely reality is that Caroline Wilson, once the ace of AFL investigative reporting has simply lost it. Spooked by the massive retrenchments at The Age, Mike Sheahan calling is semi-quits and young gun Emma Quayle trumping her comprehensively by breaking the Tippett story, Caroline simply went too hard and too far, too fast on insufficient information in a desperate bid to stay relevant. And now is back-paddling faster than a kayaker 10 metres from the edge of Victoria Falls.

Thanks BH great report. I know Rodan personally, and i can tell you he is champing at the bit,and really wants to prove a few people wrong. Feels a full preseason will benefit him greatly. His Knees are fine and infact has never felt better. He is a super fit guy and could easily go on another 3 or 4 years. Top bloke to boot!

No disrespect to anyone who has left, but those who are still at the club want to be there. That makes a massive difference in attitude.

Methinks, it's not a case of incompetence in the execution of AFL approved methodology at all but rather, a case of people involved with our club, past and/or present who put other agendas and issues ahead of the club's interests. I await the day when a former Carlton or Collingwood chairman comments on a live issue such as this one in the way one of ours did and quite frankly I'm disgusted at the campaign against some of our personnel that's been raging for a long time and has not helped our cause one iota. Instead, it's hindered it and damaged the club and its brand enormously. There's been talk here of democracy. On the issue of determining whether certain people at the club should go, there is an AGM and you can nominate yourself for election rather than go underground and dob on the club to the media. It's that sort of thing we need to wipe out before anything else.

Questioning the behavior and direction of the of the club is not destabilizing, why would it be. It occurs on DL all the time and for all sorts of reasons - trade decisions, appointment of the coach, ability of the CEO, relationship with Casey etc etc. Nothing wrong with raising issues about stuff. What there is an issue with and what is very destabilizing is leaking information to the press, a campaign of whispers, innuendo, personal attacks on indviduals, petty politics game playing etc etc. MFC has been beset by this sort of rubbish forever and a day and it is the key reason Malthouse says that we have been about everything but football. The current campaign is just one more chapter in a sorry tale of disunity and factional warfare. CW is, i would suggest happy to play a role in it. Why not, it appears to align with her agenda. The current board has reappointed CS and moved CC to a non FD position. Where is the value in tearing away at the club in the hope that both will be exited from the club - even if you passionately believe they should be. There is a board to govern the club, they should be left to do so. There are also elections and and the processes such as the AGM which can be used to transparently raise issues. Enough of the tawdry cloak and dagger.

BP would re-draft Cook.

Happy for dissenters. What we are tired of is the popping up of a certain few on particular subjects. They rarely post about anything else and are far from open about their motives and personal involvement. These posters deserve nothing but wariness, apprehension, suspicion, and the dismissiveness that comes with that in rational human beings (vitriol being the irrational response).

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/quigleys-2012-mock.980920/ Very detailed descriptions that don't gloss over weaknesses, he's a bit more brutal in his assessments. He has us taking Wines but I loved his write up on Viney which I'll throw in to get people salivating. Also he doesn't rate O'Rourke very highly and has him going at 16. It's just another opinion, we've all got em but I thought some might be interested Jack Viney DOB: 13/4/94 Ht: 178 Wt: 82 Is head and shoulders the best inside mid in this draft and is exactly the type of player that Gold Coast need for the midfield. He was well worth the number 2 pick it’s just a shame that they didn’t bid for him. Instead he goes to Melbourne at 26. I am very jealous as he would be the kind of player who Brisbane ideally need. People always talk about Viney’s inside game but tend to overlook his outside skills. Viney is an excellent accumulator of the ball and will rack them up at the next level. He is a kid who works his butt off to spread from clearances and is smart enough to get to good spots. I don’t think he has a natural feel for where to run but he is a smart enough footballer to work it out and then go. He is a big gut runner and taggers at junior level are not able to keep up with him and he tends to get a lot of football that way. This is also a kid who steps up in the big occasions. He was excellent at the Champs when the games were being decided and even going back to last year it is worth noting that he 34 possessions in the TAC GF. Viney is not a natural endurance athlete but watching him play you can see him turning himself into a runner by sheer force of will. His gut running is as good as I have seen at this level and he runs until he is out of steam. At the moment his first halves are much stronger than his seconds because he has run himself into the ground in the first half. I don’t mind that though and as he continues to work on it the longer into games he can go running to his full capacity. He is a kid who constantly challenges himself to go further and harder and this will stand him in good stead as his career develops. A lot of inside mids tend to start their careers as poor kicks. This should not be a problem for Viney. He is a left footer who uses it well, particularly in the short to intermediate ranges. He is capable of drilling a nice low kick into his forwards when required. He has reasonable penetration and the weight on his kicks is similarly pretty good without being elite. He is pretty one-sided with his right foot having little penetration or accuracy. Pace wise Viney is reasonable. He gets up to speed very quickly and shows a nice burst. His does not have the top end of some of the speedsters in this draft but he has the awareness to get the ball away before he is caught. Viney uses his burst of pace very well in tight to charge through contests or through someone trying to tackle him. He is also fairly agile despite his wrecking ball reputation and his agility, pace and strength make his a difficult proposition to tackle. You often hear people talking about putting your head down when you chase and that is literally what Viney does quite often. When he is without the ball and needs an extra effort to chase down a player of the ball the head will go down and he will give it his all. To see that kind of effort would be pretty inspiring for his teammates. On the inside Viney is an elite talent without question. He is not wedded to any particular ball winning style but will mix it up depending on what works. Sometimes he will start on the outside and attack the contest at pace, sometimes he will sit at the rucks feet. Whatever is going to get him the ball. He reads the ball of the rucks hands very well and has clean quick hands himself. He has excellent awareness of who is around him and excels at getting the ball out to his receivers. As mentioned he is very difficult to tackle and he uses his strength to hold his feet well and does not panic. When he has some momentum going into a contest he will regularly bust tackles, push men off and come out the other side. When an opposition player gets the ball he is a very good tackler and wraps up the man and ball nicely. He has a low centre of gravity and looks like he has done a fair bit of wrestling training in his time. Viney broke his jaw earlier in the year and was out for 7 weeks which did disrupt his season a bit. Despite that he was one of the players of the Champs and showed all what kind of a player Melbourne is getting. Melbourne need a cultural change and with the clean out underway getting a kid like Viney in will only expedite the transition. Anyway happy reading for those that are interested.

Stand up to AFL noise and shout it down The rank and file AFL supporter needs to get behind this. Our game is good enough without the need for USA inspired bells and whistles and sound and light shows at half time.

To me, speed is very overrated. Nobody can run as fast as a ball can be kicked or handpassed; so as long as we get the ball in a bit of space, we'll be able to move it forward very quickly.

That should be the "ground Collingwood uses". It's not theirs. In fact, last time I checked they were based in the wrong suburb.

STOP THE MUSIC. I LIKE TALKING TO MY DAD BETWEEN QUARTERS. IT'S THE ONLY TIME WE GET TO CATCH UP.

Let's make an assumption that 2012, was just a season of preparation for 2013. We quickly learned that we were a long way from the hardest team to play against. So neeld, knowing that everything was on the line, made bold decisions, with the help of viney, to make this club the hardest team to play against. He knows that 2013 is the year it must be done, so it is. It was a pity to lose moloney, but in saying that, we will have the hardest young midfield in the land. Grimes, jones, trengove, tapscott, viney, wines, mckenzie, magner and Sylvia. We have the toughest full forward in Clark and the hardest full back in frawley. Howe is a freak. We have tough honest centers halts in Dawes and McDonald and nuggetty small crumbers in Nicholson and rodan. This is the core nucleus of hard nuts. Add the absolute class of watts, blease and davey, and we have a structure of the hardest team to play against. We must be aiming finals for 2013! No more excuses.

When a fan says he "ran past the boys at the tan" it could be a worry - presumably, or hopefully, in the opposite direction :-)

Yeah because the Catholic Church issue is being completely driven by The Age. It has nothing to do with decades of abused children coming out, and its so media driven the government has decided to perform a vague, easy, short-time and low cost Crown Investigation. Get real

Totally agree with Flanners. I grew up in the UK following football (soccer) supporting the mighty Plymouth Argyle. The game over there has changed incredibly with the all-seater stadia, super club razzmatazz. Where once it was standing on the terraces amongst the noisy banter, songs and the adrenalin, it's now corporatised plastic seats in a sedated stadium, drip-fed buckets of Coca Cola and the blast of goal celebration music (not that they get many goals at Argyle). When I first came over here and started following the Dees, one of the most appealing things about the footy was the fantastic atmosphere of the game. I mean, if the spectacle of 36 blokes running their guts out at 100mph, whilst bouncing an oval ball, kicking it 60,70 metres, jumping onto someone's SHOULDERS! and hoping not to get clattered at the same time - for 2 hours - is not excitement enough...well...maybe skydiving without a parachute is a better option. With incessant celebration music on the headphones perhaps.

Fan, I was going to say you are sending me mixed messages, but on reflection I really think you are sending me polar opposite messages. Edit - I agree wholeheartedly with the second post of yours I have highlighted and that is exactly the influence I am talking about and why it is important for her to be held to task on her reporting and stop presenting opinion, innuendo, supposition and in some cases downright falsehoods as facts.

If Toumpas is available at 4 it's a no brainer. The club couldn't be that stupid.

Jesus. I cannot believe some of the shite I read on this site. Ther are obviously intelligent people here but things like - my sister's boyfriend saw such and such on a whiteboard or, I know via my cousin,s friend, someone who was in the vault and etc I get a little disturbed. That is, I get disturbed when people take such claims seriously. This is a websites FFS, you can claim to be whatever you like and then some silly dick takes you seriously. I find such gullibilty astounding. I enjoy this site for its sensible footy discussion. I enjoy this site for the wit of Daisycutter, Biffen and others. But some posters hers are guilty of the greatest "sin" of all - taking yourself seriosly.

I've always seen the musical intrusions (and cheerleaders, fireworks, etc.) as a kind of admission that the sport in and of itself is not entertaining enough to hold the attention of the crowd. That's simply not the case with AFL - the action is continuous save for the 20 odd seconds it takes for the ball to get from the goal line back to the centre square The other issue faced by NBA (timeouts) and NFL (where they spend infinitely more time setting plays up than actually executing them) are the breaks between play. I reckon I'd need a fair amount of distraction to sit through all of that too

That's why this kid is a must draft at pick 49!!!

Great reports BenH & DemonD, much appreciated, things certainly are changing in a methodical (Neeld) way..........toughest team to beat.........f yeah bring it on.......oooppps I can get excited easily

just by way of mentioning Im not too upset if we should 'have' to take Wines at 4 !! I mean..be terrible Unlike many a pst year its not like we are going to rely on any one player to be our 'saviour" . Whomeve it is @ 4 he'llbe part of the team , not its new poster boy.

i popped in for about 30 minutes, to answer a couple of questions when I got there Dawes was getting changed and going inside, obviously easing in due to his knee issue from last season, we trained on the collingwood ground as the nets were out for victory training. I read in the paper the other day that collingwood expect to be on their new ground by March, then that becomes our permanent training ground, cant wait for them to pull down the signs and put our own up, there it really starts to look and feel like our facility. One thing I noticed in the stoppage work was Viney lined up on Rodan and managed to hold his ground in most contests. There was one centre bounce were he got the ball from a ruck tap and took off. He actually had a quicker burst of speed than I thought he had, look forward to watching him develop in the coming seasons. Magner looks fit as a fiddle, hope he can find a yard as he has no issues getting the pill. Jamar and Fitzpatrick were on our training ground having a kick to kick I agree with BH about training, it looks so much more structured and planned. Pre-season games in Feb cant come quick enough now! In the match simulation Blease and Tapscott both lined up on the half forward line.

Thanks Ben-Hur Yours truly, Grapeviney

Many will consider this a biased view, and well may it be. Im about 9/10 over Sylvia for what its worth. Perennial tease. Hes shown migty litel for al of his talent. Now many will offer up a folder of excuses ( in their minds reasons ) as to why this has occurred and in all reality it doesnt matter sqwat as what is ...IS...and that is that hes a major underachiever. Thats the preface. Barring injury I sense he may well step up in 2013 but not through any sense of self starting or honest self assessment. No. I think he will be shamed into it in a fashion. And heres why. Sylvia was taken early as picks go. He was feted for his potential. In some ways he was part of a psuedo rat-pack of yongsters coming through. Here though Col relied heavily on his talent and little on effort or work ethic. A bit like the gifted student who only gets so -so marks. He hasnt pushed himself, he hasnt really needed to Weve been that bad a club at times hes simply got games on the merit of injecting him into the side in the great hope he'd fire. We can go on ad nauseum but I think all will concur its been underwhelming to date. . However something has chganged dramatically. Neeld has now inducted to the club at leeast a half dozen or so footballers of varying ability but one common trait. They apply themsleves. They train and work there butts off and put in 100% of whatever they have on the day. This is the new 'line in teh sand" for all players to observe but if Sylvia has even the merest modicum of intelligence he will now have to at very least , monkey see-monkey do. His peers are now not so much the laughing clowning happy go lucky bunch of seasoned losers ( and I mean that inteh sense of they all experienced continual and institutionalised loss ) but a group of seasoned finalist and premiership campaigners.The bar just got lifted considerably. Ego will hopefully drive Sylvia to finally pull his finger out in a fair dinkum effort. or he wil be cast into the shadows as an abject failure. it will be interesting .

Fan, I think the words that particularly grated many, and that were perhaps unnecessary, came in your first post in this thread where you concluded by saying, "Keep up the good work Caro". I accept it was an all encompassing "thank you" on your part, but it was also clearly designed to inflame. It served its purpose. Btw, I noticed in the first Wilson article that got this tanking story back to the forefront they used an archive photo which showed yours truly seated in a large meeting room. As you worked voluntarily in the club's footy department in 2009 I suspect there's a fair chance you were one of the 15 in the room when Connolly made his 30 second "aside" of that year. Your take on his comments and intent ?

I had a chat to Jack Watts about demonland at the Best and Fairest. I said have you ever been on there and he said he had seen it a few times. Just think before you go bag a kid with loads of talent that could well read your crap. The last thing Jack would want to see is MFC fan's baging him like the bloody media. MFC SUPPORT the boy. He also said he is training harder then ever under neeld

This site seems to be divided between Watts supporters and Watts bashers. Fact is he led the league in intercepts in the 2 month period he was playing without injury last season. Fact is he has taken more marks kicks and Handballs so far in his carreer than Natanui and Hurley,who he is constantly compared to. Fact is he is a year youngerthan both of them, and infinitely more skilled. As an effectively 3rd year player he is the second most efficient by foot at the whole club. He will fill out, only still a kid really. Lastly, he is here to stay so get used to it , all you so called supporters of the Melbourne football club.

no i disagree OD. The MFC has the ability to become a power club. I just don't think it has truly believed it for a long time. Big Jimma believed it & so should we...

As usual RP well said. A person who was involved in the club should not be on a public forum applauding an article based on information that had leaked from the club to cause it grief. I say this in a general sense of course.

I think Colin could seriously become a really good player if he actually gets an opportunity with a half good midfield around him and a good supporting act

its ok folks , probably be replaced by yet another show about obscure artists of the 17th century and how they impact blacmange in todays cullinary quests.

Forgive GV for not realising you were posting before your morning coffee. Just let it go. You would point it out to any sod unlucky enough to post the mistake.

And also that we are getting heat put on us through tanking when other sides escape the heat. Calton promised WC pick 3 before the season ended the year they tanked, then proceeded to throw matches, Fev, Libba mentioned they tanked - yet the AFL and media choose to go after the wounded Dees, like we haven't copped enough. Why do GWS escape all the heat, they constantly approached players during the season, Scully, etc. Yet not even a mention. I'm glad we are going to fight this tooth and nail because it's time the AFL are held accountable for their favoratism towards certain sides.

Toumpas is everything we need.. class,poise, skills, outside run and carry and pace.. Wines is everything that we have.. tough, inside,mid pace, ball gathering ability.. Should be simple really..

Cheers RobbieF and sorry bb - I completely missinterpreted everything

Do you think the thought escaped me ? Fan worked closely with Harrington and I think there's an excellent chance he was in the meeting and if so he would most likely have been interviewed for his 'take' on proceedings. I'm sure he'll set us straight...

They can do whatever they like at Etihad.

I think it is bleeding obvious without your Caro-like "inside information at HQ".The blaring "music" and other PA intrusions at all intervals and pre- match at the MCG certainly spoils my enjoyment of the game - one of the pleasures having been an opportunity to engage in conversation both with mates with whom I go to matches, and with strangers one encounters there. But, no...the AFL and / or the MCG have chosen to spoil this with their inane and often poorly delivered din! Honestly, if they introduce the garbage "music" and meaningless banter after goals that one hears at NBL (and I beleive at 20/20 cricket, though I have never attended and rarely watch this parody of the true game) I would seriously probably stop attending.

We need to get our facts right. Carlton did fade out inexplicably in the second half of 2007 but it did not do so in the Kreuzer Cup with Fev on the bench. Fev was benched against Collingwood some weeks earlier than that game but he was sent off for surgery and conveniently was missing for the Blues over the last few weeks of the season. People can blame Melbourne officials like CS for supposedly being grim-faced after a win or CC for saying things which might three years after the event be taken out of context, but I don't regard that as being grounds for criticising their performance or justifying the utter visciousness of Wilson's attacks on them and the club. Moreover, there is no justification for excluding Carlton and a number of other clubs from the same lengthy and rigorous scrutiny as that under which our club has been placed. I'm sure that given four or so months of KGB-like attention from over zealous investigators and media people with agendas, that stories can be embellished and anyone can be made to look incompetent if facts are twisted to suit a particular angle. In the case of Carlton, I know of at least one board member from that time who was careless enough to lay it on the line weeks before the Kreuzer Cup that his club's game was to tank in order to maximize its draft position. I know this because the (now former) board member told me so. But apart from 15 minutes of questioning of Tony Liberatore that resulted in a dismissive outcome, the Blues remain untouched even after Fevola's revelations in his book. The fact of the matter is that the AFL in giving such a narrow interpretation to what it called "tanking" turned a blind eye to a practice that went on for the better part of a decade and which should have been nipped in the bud long before 2007 when Carlton turned it into an art form.

Love the positive post. No more "bruise free footy"! Kick arse Dees!

Depends how well drilled you are in the English language

I want to pose another question, what would the top 10 look like if the draft wasn't compromised, i.e no 17 year old selections last year and no father son. So the actual ten best undrafted 18 year olds in order, as opposed to factoring in club selections. Would it be something like: 1. Whitfield 2. Daniher 3. O'Meara 4. Toumpas 5. Crouch 6. Grundy 7. O'Rourke 8. Viney 9. Wines 10. Plowman

I'm sick of people with axes to grind continually rocking the boat there is a time and place for grievances. public sniping and leaking is disloyalty

The expectation of Watts was to be that pack splitting monster we all dreamt about - not the rebounding defender he's basically playing now. For that reason, JW will always be more closely scrutinised for his efforts in the air or over the ball. Birchall has never had that. Watts has had courageous plays. I don't believe it's a problem with his ticker but more one of confidence.