Leaderboard

LH I'm not sure about needing to target others too much though I'm sure the FD have ideas/options as much as I surmise they are just sitting and waiting now. All the big moves we wanted are in the bag. I'm sure we'd like both Ray and Pedersen for their role-playing but we don't need to cow-tail to either the Sinners or the Roos. We CAN walk away. I'd be letting them both know, yeah.....be nice,but we don't have to. Both StKilda and Nth must garner some picks in order to facilitate much of their desired trades and in Nths case moving on a player they don't want. I'd wait and let the bastards squirm. Don't buckle now MFC , they'll both deal and on much more reasoned terms once they see the clock ticking !!!!!!!!

Why have we all got so crazy about getting this 26 year old Werribee player?

Why is it a foregone conclusion that Jamar's best is behind him? He's not yet 30, I see no reason it all that he can't return to his AA form if he's able to get some momentum up again.

Disagree. We are a football club. Everyone is in it together. Part of being a good Coach is to get the best out of his footballers. That doesn't happen by him simply telling everyone to do their best. It is a joint effort. It is the "buy in" we are hearing about. Good coaches understand their players and get the best out of them. If their best is not good enough, then they are moved on.

Good god MFC fans over rate kids.... Barry was predicited to be drafted anywhere from 40+ to rookie listed due to being very soft, not getting alot of the ball and struggling to impact games on a consistent basis. Yet you compare to him to a former pick 4 young star like Stephen Hill who tore juniors up?? Barry has some potential and could be a good player, or be very average like JB is for us. Either way he has shown nothing to even remotely compare him to Stephen Hill other than being fast and not a white guy I am not attacking just you.... but every kid that ever comes to MFC gets touted to be this amazing star and compared to some established player. Bennel was going to be Mcleod. Morton looked like Goddard. Watts was Riewoldt 2. Gysberts played like Pendlebury. Tapscott is the next Chapman. The list goes on and on and on and on and on.

Look, I hate to break it to you, but effective key forwards have been in vogue for 100 years and will be in another 100 years. They're not always easy to come by but the teams that have them are invariably at the pointy end of the ladder.

Gys for Pedo? No thanks, that's wrong on every level.

Ross Lyon cleraly rated him. I've rated him since he's been at St Kilda. I never said I think he's a star who will deliver the MFC a flag. But I certainly think he's worth Pick 49 & Bennell and fills what our needs are at this stage. A good HBF/Midfielder who's capable of playing a run with role to good effect (drawn Grand Final on Dane Swan after half time) who is a reasonable kick who also provides run and carry and spreads well. He'd walk into our 22 without any issues.

I really like Mooney. I disagree with him on this issue, but I don't question his motives. I think he's just got it wrong. But even then, we'll only know with the fullness of time.

I'm with you Robbie. Rivers and Moloney played about 40 games this year and the pick we got for them is not good enough for a bloke who played 2 games for North and couldn't get into the AFL until he was 25.

Stuie.....FFS. The End.

Id be happy if MFC walk away from both deals...... We've had a pretty good trade period, IMO..... Both deals would be a bonus.... But that's it, I wouldn't sell the house for them.... Maybe trade Martin to Brisbane for pick 33....... Then use it in the draft...

Good spot Demon3. It's a shame you didn't spot Dangerfield, Toby Greene and Gary Ablett as well...

Stuie, if hes been marked "keep -for now" then great . I actually believe and trust this mob ( aka as the MFC -FD ) have an idea about what they are doing. I do also think they are refining it as they go. This would be perfectly normal mo for any reasonably intelligent outfit.JG does have 'something' . He has to bring it. Only he can do that. its not actually up to the coaches to pry it out of him, they just provide the car and roads...he has to drive. Theres a certain irony to all this. If the many of us thought he had nothing then hed both be gone and forgotten already. Hes on the list. it will be interesting. I damn sure neeld isnt interested the slightest in Talk, only the Walk. JG had better get going

Neeld has had a whole season to assess JG. My guess is that a key criteria is willingness to put in the required work to get to AFL standard fitness. perhaps i'm wrong but you seem to imply that Neeld hasn't "rolled up his sleeves"and work with him. I would argue he has and the indications are that Gysberts has not responded. This is not high school where you have to keep a student on - if Neelds assesment is that JG is not doing the work or won't in the future then why waste time and resources trying to convince him of the need to do so. I agree development is an important part of an AFL coaches role but so is making tough calls. Neeld made clear when he got the job all players were on notice. I suspect players such as Cook and Gysberts have been given theirs. They had their chance to impress, were given developmetn support and hvae not stepped up.

What's worse? A talented Demon playing the odd game during an unlucky and injury interrupted year who gets turned on by his own teams supporters and has all kinds of BS rumours spread about his attitude by some wanna be Hutchy's who always seem to have an "anonymous" source who is "involved at the club". What a load of rubbish. This is a good test for Neeld, can he actually coach a player into form and confidence or does he simply ship out anyone that's too much work for him?

Easily the best ruckman on our list and has actually put together a season of great football - unlike the rest of the potential ruckmen on our list. With a decent midfield his value increases exponentially. Dominant tap ruckman don't fall out of the sky so I value his presence greatly and so do many others.

When has Gysberts ever played an outside mid game? I thought he was slow of foot with a poor tank - hardly the recipe for an outside mid type.

I hope the recruiters have this note on a piece of paper in front of them. Hello boys, for pick #4 choose the highest player from the below list who is available 1. Toumpas 2. Wines 3. O Rourke And for all the other picks, choose the cheekiest little forwards you can find, I want 3 of them. Regards, MN

to fully represent the deal: Pick 3 and pick 13 and pick 27 in exchange for Hogan, Barry, Viney and pick 20 and you can't really separate any individual aspect of it

I think this has needed to be posted for awhile in the context of both our drafting and list management. 18-21 (New recruits): Davis, Blease, Gawn, TMac,Taggert, Tapscott, Trengove, Tynan, Watts, Viney, Toumpas (!!!!), Barry, Hogan, Kent, Evans. 22-25 (Established players): Bail, Clark, Dunn, Fitzy, Frawley, Garland, Grimes, Howe, Jetta, Jones, Jordie, Sellar, Spencer, Strauss, Dawes, Pedersen, Nicholson, Gillies, M Jones, Terlich. 26-28(Senior Players): JMac, Sylvia, Byrnes, 29+(Veterans): Davey, Jamar, Rodan. Bold: New Looking at our list at this stage of the trade period I think Neeld's mindset becomes clear. The vast majority of our list (particularly with the exits of Rivers, Moloney, Green and Jurrah) are in the first two groups, with only 5 players pre our new ins over 26. It should also be noted that of those players over 26, only 2 have really cemented their spots in the 22 in 2012 (Jamar and Sylv and thats still debatable). The vast majority of the quality on our list is in the age group between 22-25, with more entering over the next couple of years (Trenners, Watts and Blease for example). But in the key 26-28 age group, where I would argue most players are hitting their peak we only have 3 players with 2 famously inconsistant and JMac, who we could debate the quality of. Clearly our list is deficient in this region and even with several good players entering this age group over the next couple of years it is clear it needs to be bolstered. Clearly we have plenty of talent in the younger region of our list and this will be bolstered with at least 4 young recruits this year. I am sure multiple conclusions can be drawn from this, and sure the age groups are arbitrary and I haven't guessed at the delistings, but I think it has needed to be posted as I feel it would answer a lot of the concerns given in several threads. Obviously we are actually adding more youth than anything else in this draft so those like Cam Mooney who argue we aren't continuing to add quality to the young end of our list are way off the mark. But in Byrnes, Ray and Dawes (who will be 25 next year) we have added 3 experienced players who have come from quality cultures, experienced success and are equally as good, if not better than most of our current experienced players. Edited to include Rodan, also in this context Rodan makes far more sense as he adds to an age and experience group we have very little in. Edited to include delistings, Pedersen and trades (Gys, Morton). Edited to include upgraded Rookies and Gillies. Edited to include draft Edit: For all the talk during trade period of "not adding enough youth" we have now added 6 players under 22 to our primary list along with 4 over 25. Seems pretty balanced to me. Also the depth of this list is looking better and better, there are far fewer in the team that I can't see getting an AFL game than when we started. Also with at least 5 (Dawes, Jones, Pedersen, Clark, Frawley, Jones) high quality players moving into the "Senior player" age group over the next 2 years this list is starting to look more and more competitive, rather than developmental.

Anyway honeslty whats the problem with this? A player weve been needing for ages at very little cost. We have pick 1 in the PSD yeah? So whats the problem here. Anyway if it means we dont take ben Warren with that pick , im all for it

If North want to bend us over a barrel walk away - then we can just take him next year if we still want him once his contract is up.

If they want to pay his contract as he languishes in the VFL, good on them. They don't want him and don't play him but want a top draft pick to trade him, yeah right, next.

Errr " available evidence"??? That would be zero then. But if you mean innuendo and speculation then he is a goner.

]Cheap shot...FMD. This is not cheap shot rumor anything - it is people putting together limited information to try and figure out what is going on. Unlike what you are doing, which is being contrary and rude because you can. It is clear that there have been really serious problems at melbourne. Problems around attitude and work ethic. Gysberts doesn't appear much bigger or fitter than when he started. Lots of people who watch the game agree. I remember posters on 'ology commenting a couple of years ago that Gysberts struggled to run and looked exhausted quickly. People have observed coaches getting in to him and blease about running. And then you get blease coming out in an article recently saying that he got fit and did what the coaches said and got into the side. Couch did, magner did..hell even evans was close before further injury. Gys was in once or twice and then out again. Concerns about his fitness are not new. - and a number of reputable posters notice his poor running in games for melbourne and casey. Then there are genuine rumors about attitude. Being snide just makes oyu look snide. This may well be accurate...but it is not helping your argument.

No it couldn't be said of every player on the list, but it could be said for Jamar because he has played at that level before, and it was only a few seasons ago. I just find it amazing that you're prepared to write him off after one interrupted reason.

Watch people opinions of Rodan change as he gets closer to wearing our colours ahaha Seriosuly though, it makes me sick to think we'd offer Rodan a contract yet have retired Green, and seemingly didnt do eveything we could to retain McDonald, Bruce, Rivers and Moloney

I know David and he is a top class bloke. He is super fit ,and his knee is fine. Can play forward crumber and midfield. Very quick and skilled. Will add experience and a touch of excitement.

I reckon O'Rourke has a higher ceiling than Wines due to his better skill sets and all-round class, but that Wines will also be a very solid player and the surer bet.

And there's the rub of it. We are all just guessing what is fact and what isn't in relation to Gys. Unless someone can give me a direct quote from Team Neeld that says he is not part of our future and we want him out, then we'll just have to accept that he has a year on his contract to go. We will know very shortly what the FD thinks of him.

The way i see it is if he's not committed or seems to lack the determination to work hard enough to be an afl player or a player at this club then Neeld will send him packing. Which i doubt is true, for a young "fresh" player to not be as committed as ever and willing to work hard to make at this level is hard to believe. I think the club should really work to turn this around like they seemingly have with Blease, Similar things where said about him. What makes good culture is a club that is willing to put in the time and effort to turn young players into 10 year players and rid of their bad habits and groom them into professionals, lets not forget his broken jaw and ankle injury that kept him out for most of the year. What id like to see is the club try stick with Gysberts as id hate to see him be traded for a 3rd to 4th round pick and turn into a good player else where. Which has obviously happened before. Having said that im on board the Neeld crew so il back them to make the right call

I'm confident Dawes will know exactly what he's getting into and so will Byrnes. You seem to forget the Bomber Thompson dictatorship at Geelong. You've got to stop taking shots at Neeld. Did he steal your bike or something? What's with the "schoolboy" stuff? Just because he used to be a teacher is not a reason to condemn him. All coaches are teachers after all. This one has a clearly written lesson plan and a solid curriculum base. He has established his assessment criteria and is about to embark on whole-school improvement plan. Go Dees! Go Neeld!

I'm amused by the logic that we should limit ourselves to pick 45+ because you don't know who he is.

if North are playing hard ball then lets just walk away. They need to offload him more than we need to get him i would say. They will come crawling back when they need the extra pick for whatever other deals they need to get done. I would focus our attention on getting Ray. FFS who is Pederson seriously? if Hamish Mcintosh is worth pick 36 then why are we suddenly prepared to part with something similar for this guy. I'm all for getting him but only for pick 45+ max.

if Guy said it then that's that - gorn

Look Stuie i agree to an extent. I think it would be a shame for him not to fulfill his obvious potential at the dees. I guess where where we differ is i am assuming Neeld has worked really hard this year with all the players, including Gysberts. The time and resources have been put in this year and a year is long enough to reach conclusions. Why is another year necessary? The injury is a furphy to an extent. Yes it would have impacted on his fitness etc but you don't think how he went about his rehabilitation would have been considered by the club in their assessment of his work ethic? Compare his scenario to Bartram. Barty barely played all year due to injury but his work ethic has never been questioned and i would be shocked if he is cut (maybe made a rookie?). Instructive also is a comparison with Blease who seemed to have switched on mid season and responded to the development provided by the club. Neeld was effusive in his praise for this and i suspect this was not just about pumping up his tyres. I hope Gysberts has a road to Damascus moment and convinces Neeld he is up for it. Then follows through with the commitment

Everyone at the club gets paid a lot of money to do their respective jobs. i CAN see Neeld doing his, ive seen little in terms of results for JG having done his. Take the emotion out of it Stuie..theyre all just widgets..like it or not, thats all they are, parts of a puzzle. he might be a mate of yours and thats fine but it has absolutely nothing to do with how or why a player ought to be regarded. There is only ONE....ONE barometer at the end of the day and thats results. Everyone at the club will live or fall by them and so far Jordans got sfa runs on the board. All the ability and potential in the world means bugger all if you cant translate it. I for one and sick and tired of this club hanging on to nqrs, wannabes and those with boundless potential just in case one day they MIGHT step up.. its the clubs business and right to make a call on players and if they have made it already on Jordan then so be it; either way. He goes or he stays and works his butt off. I dont care. My only wish is for a successful team. I could care neither who plays or who coaches. There is only room for X number of players. Thats made up of est players , those in the system trying to become est and those new to the ranks. Theres always to be a balance and comings and goings. MN has shown by his targeting of types that hes only interested in solid bodied players with good skills, good thinking and above all else a second to none work ethic and desire to be the best, for themselves and for the jumper they wear. Some players may well look back one day and rue their lost opportunity at Melbourne. Time will soon tell if one will be Jordan

On available evidence, Jordie is being shopped around for a worse pick than we paid to recruit him. That seems to indicate to me that the MFC are disappointed in his progress/attitude/whatever, despite injuries etc... The coach creates an environment where professional sportsmen can be successfull, the individual players can then take full advantage of this environment, or not. Would be a shame if Jordie chose not to.

If they can dump their spuds on us, it's only fair that we return the favour. They can have Morton

I really just don't get the fuss about this kid, he reminds me of Dexys Midnight Runners! ( some of you might struggle with that, others get it in a flash....c'mon )

Agree. Not sure why we seem to be in such a hurry to offload. FWIW I think there's a huge upside to him, not sure the coaches agree.Perderson on the other hand appears to have become a champion - amazing ..

Yes, well there are some fabulous high-brow stations available to the listener... but they tend not to talk about MFC draft strategy!!!!!!!!

All good points. Reluctantly agree with what you all have to say on the topic. In Neeld I trust, and he saw the need for a 3 yr deal for Jamar. Part of me thinks Jamar can only tap, he's 29, injury prone and his best days are gone. I look at trade value and think he may be worth more as a trade, perhaps to GWS, than what he will bring us over the next 3 years. But I acknowledge he is a big body, shows good strength in the ruck contests and gets his palm to the ball far more than Martin, Gawn or Spencer. We have lost much experience. This is an invaluable asset. I guess what I am pleading for is a ruckman who will consistantly perform and lead us into the next ten years, who will be our Cox, our Sandi, our Jolly (what irony). Grundy has the goods, according to those draft watchers in the know. I believe we live off Jamar's one AA year and conveiniently forget the other 6-8 poor years and 1 or 2 average years he has given us. I understand that without Jamar, our ruck stocks are wafer thin ATM, but also that we have been without Jamar for much of the past couple of years. If Jamar does not have a big resurgence in 2013, our mids will get pounded again and Dawes and Clark will probably spend the season counting their bundles of money in the goal square.

I don't want to go on. But.... This guy is going to be a star. He is Matthew Pavlich Mach II. HUGE call, but mark my words; "We will regret not taking him!" Full respect to Wines... But we need this guy.

By the time this trade/FA/draft period ends, excluding any rookies we add and obviously Hogan, every single player we will add will add to the side immediately, including Viney and most likely whoever we take with #4. Neeld has said to anyone who will listen that his FD collectively believe that we've got the talented youth to get where we need to be, and we're desperately short of quality mature players to help keep us competitive in the mean time. It isn't very hard to put these two pieces of information together to establish the obvious strategy for this off-season and why it's been a success for us. I guess it's just easier for guys like Cam Mooney to resort to the "common wisdom" of draft picks = better team and not bothering to look any deeper than that. Edit: The other thing is that even though we haven't added much youth this year, of the four we have added two are known to be absolutely top shelf and while we don't know the ID of Pick #4 yet, the chances of not unearthing at least a very good player are slim. In short, we've added class, experience and leadership. I can't believe that anyone could not view this as a success.

I am still of the belief they have done a deal with Toumpas. That is why they gave away pick 13, there is no other logical reason as they had no interest in viney, so GWS will pass on JT Can lay london to a brick GWS will go 1. Whitfield 2. Grundy (in need of a young ruckman as they missed billy longer last year) 3.Plowman/O'rourke. ( they are in need of big backs= plowman)

I really like Stef and see huge potential in him. I will judge him by 2011 and forgive last year as they all ran around like headless chooks .

He's attending one of those fancy rehabilitation centres in the US at great cost He has to be thoroughly de-contaminated of all the filth before he can rock up to aami stadium