Leaderboard

On my list of concerns, in the world, this ranks somewhere near the bottom.

So can we give back Scully and have Martin instead?

I dont think he is. Dland hysteria aside, the last six years of inept football on and off the ground by this Club is an absolute joke. MFC is an embarrassment. I feel for MFC supporters trying to encourage their kids to follow the red and blue. Why would you do it to a child? Members have every right to be livid about the rubbish served up this year ( in addition to past years) particularly when many of them dug deep and often with a leap of faith to reduce the $5.5m debt to zero. They have been sold a lemon for their efforts. I would expect membership numbers to plummet and sponsorship to be even harder to win next year as MFC has embarrassed and alienated its supporters. Its a bad brand for companies to be associated with

I think you and others are looking too hard to find fault with the coach and his game-plan. Ultimately any game-plan is only as good as the players at your disposal. Neeld's game-plan is based on defence and accountability and we know through the reaches of time that flags have been won by teams with a strong defensive focus. When Cam Bruce was interviewed 12 months ago he was asked what's the main difference between Hawthorn and Melbourne and he answered that it was the intensity of the training. He said that there were a lot more mature bodies at Hawthorn which allowed the training loads to be far greater. Misson and Neeld were apparently surprised by how poor the overall fitness was at Melbourne when they arrived and clearly it takes a few years to change this adequately. Denis Pagan was considered a great coach by the North players and he won flags. He had terrible cattle at Carlton and the results showed. Barassi was a great coach at North and Carlton, but had terrible cattle at the Dees and the results showed. Alan Joyce took Hawthorn to a flag in the year that Allan Jeans was sick then went to Footscray where he had poor cattle and the results showed. In Malthouse's first year at Collingwood the list contained names such as Patterson, Baynes, Oborne, Smith, McKee, Jacotine, Kinnear, Wasley, Tuckey, Lane, Ukovic, Orchard, Adkins, and Dimmatina. There'd be plenty of players in that list of 14 that people have never heard of. Not surprisingly Collingwood came second last in Malthouse's first year as coach. David Parkin was twice sacked at Carlton, but in 1995 he coached a team to a flag that he has subsequently said virtually coached itself. Could he coach when he was sacked twice, or only when he had the talent at his disposal ? Alistair Clarkson won only 5 games in his first year and many supporters at the time were calling for his head. They're pretty quiet now. Some supporters on here think that we've got a list that is choc full of talent, but where games of footy are won, i.e. the midfield, we don't. I think the bare bones of the list are OK and can be quickly improved with some good drafting and trading, but right now our run and spread is virtually non-existent. People get sick of hearing it, but our recruiting over the last 5 years has hurt us terribly. Neeld and Co have an opportunity to make significant changes at the end of the year and I think they will. I know Neeld thinks the demands of the game are too great on young players, but I hope he holds his nerve and doesn't lose our opportunity to draft some exciting talent with picks 3 and 4. I'll understand if he sacrifices pick 12 for an older player, but not the first two. I think you get my message. It's hard to judge Neeld with the quality of the list at his disposal. Rather than focusing so much on the game-plan it's the list that needs dissecting. You can't make chicken salad out of chicken [censored]. You can't pull your socks up if you haven't got any. Coaches have known for 100 years that you need talented players and despite the denials of some supporters, we don't have nearly enough. Can Neeld coach ? I don't know. Is the list great ? Hell no.

Lets not rewrite history. There is one reason and one reason only why Brock went to Carlton, we refused to give him a 3 year contact at $400000.00 per year. Carlton gave it to him and we wouldn't. He had come off another injury and his form wasn't great. That's right, hard to believe when a club like Carlton is involved, they gave him the money and he left. They offered us pick 11 and we grabbed it. Now lets not say it was for any other reason as if we had antied up the dollars he would have stayed. PS. On another note I think Sheahan's constant criticism of us and his description of the "club" as pathetic and disgraceful is the worst piece of journalism ever seen and he should be ashamed of himself. I go further, I would publicly state that he is not welcome and to hell with the consequences.

If I'd won 4 flags and coached for 27 years I think I'd have that attitude too. Do you think Malthouse would participate in a "process" if he decides he wants to coach again ? I can't stand Sheedy, but expecting him to pitch for the job in the same way other rookie coaches might shows a lack of judgment.

Reality is, it's more complicated than any one thing, and my pet hate at the moment here is all the "it's the ...... stupid" threads that embody the stupidness they seek to expound. It's not JUST the coaches fault, it's not JUST the players fault, it's not JUST the recruiters and development staff's fault, it's not JUST Bailey's fault... It's a combination of all those things and more. I know we all hoped Neeld would come in and everything would click, but it hasn't, and he's learning and growing just like the team is. Might work, might not... I'm not gonna tell anyone to be patient etc because I'm struggling this year as much as the rest of you, all I know is it's too late to change teams now!

One of the myriad of reasons Cameron Schwab should get the lemonade and sass....... this was his blue print - and he had a masssive influence on both tanking and the recruiting strategy of outside runners instead of the footballers (like geelong and collingwood) - also overseen appointment of last two lemmings (aka coaches).

At least Neeld is finally trying to introduce a hard edged, competitive, disciplined, professional culture into this club.

Five things stand out which should have you standing up and applauding ... 1. Has set about dismantling Bailey's useless free-wheeling game plan and instilling a heretofore non-existent defensive mindset in the players. 2. Willingness to drop players regardless of status and reputation. 3. Getting rid of a group of leaders who were anything but and boldly replacing them with fresh faces he believes can grow in the role and take us forward. 4. Enticing one of the game's most astute thinkers (Craig) and fitness gurus (Misson) to join him. 5. Convincing Mitch Clark to join us. Small victories in the first year as he lays the groundwork for culture change and future success. You should be inspired by this because it took brass balls to do it.

Screw you Lindsay Thomas! Your a diving dog and after you dive you then take out Nicho. I dislike you a lot.

I'm not disappointed that we didn't appoint him, but it would hardly shock me if we didn't handle the interview process well.

I think its a bit blurred You do actually realise our ties are actuallystrong. We are PART of the MCC once again ? Cant get much stronger than that.There simply isnt room to facilitate all of what an AFL club requires to have at the G for the MFC. part of the reason we moved out was to have FULL facilities. The actual pitch will never be allocated to an individual team ever again. Get over it. We have a constituion and its falls under the MCC Charter also. Your really have no idea do you What will do that, boost morale, membership and sponsorships ( though not too shabby currently ) is success on the field. That comes from building a winning team from the ground up. We are currently doing this. Just not in a way youd comprehend. You obviously think the list is fine. Hard to know what your first mistake is really. Hows that 'ticket' of yours going.

We've discussed Toumpas, Wines, etc, but I thought this Calder Cannon player needed further discussion. Channel Nine's TAC footy show ranked him the second best player in the draft behind Whitfield, while most phantom drafts have him in the top 10. Jonathan O'Rourke is an inside mid that makes good decisions, has pace and is an elite kick. I like the fact that he wins inside contested footy, but that he also has pace and great kicking. It seems to me that if we can get Viney in the second round and add Toumpas and O'Rourke we're well on our way to building potentially an elite midfield. It's the pace of Toumpas and O'Rourke that interests me as well as their contested ball winning ability. And both are great kicks. I watched the under 18 Vic Metro V WA again last night and paid particular attention to O'Rourke and liked what I saw. He didn't have one jaw dropping moment, but looks smooth and clean. And Viney again showed his quality. He did some really nice things in that game and his accurate kicking, pace and clearance work stood out. Here's Knightmare's Bio on O'Rourke: Jonathan O'Rourke (VIC - Mid) Height: 183cm, Weight: 75kg, DOB: 21/04/1994 Recruited from: Calder Cannons Style: Player comparison: Rory Sloane Range: 5-20 Profile: Missed most of the 2011 season with a hamstring injury but has come back hard in 2012 and shown us just how good he is. O’Rouke is an excellent inside player and big time inside ball winner but also can play some outside and do so well. Attacks the ball hard at every opportunity and goes hard at every contest which is what you want to see. Can really influence games with his inside work and the energy and hardness he provides at the footy but then also do good work with his outside game. Very good all rounder who stands out most is his ball use, particularly by foot which is just so good for. Finds targets consistently by foot, has some hurt factor and finishes beautifully around goal. Decision making ability good and chooses the right target more often than not. Is also a very good athlete and has good pace and a nice leap on him. Very good in congestion and has that great decision making ability choosing the right targets even while pressured which is impressive. Do any Demonlanders have an opinion on him ?

This year blows we all know that. I'm as negative as the rest of Demonland at the moment as there is not much to love except for the little bald bloke who busts his gut every week and makes me want to go to games and he makes me proud to be a dee with his efforts every week. If I were any of the younger players who can't figure out what to do to become a good player I would follow this bloke around all bloody year. I heard how he was waking up every few hours to ice his calf when he was injured some weeks ago. Could you see Sylvia doing that? I Love your work Jones you can hold your head up high every week mate! So share the love if you want to. If not, I know it might be hard to find but if you dig deep there are some who to sack threads floating around. Disposal average 2012: 24.7 Kicked 14 goals and averages 90 supercoach points.

The thing that sh!ts me is that we get the tanker tag when Collingwood picked up both Dale Thomas and Scott Pendlebury in the 2005 draft at pick 2 & 5. This is after 2 consecutive GFs in 2002 - 3. After a poor start in 2005 they decided their season was done , didn't play key players and lost the last 11 games straight. The only reason they didn't get pick 1 is carlton beat them to it. Carlton managed to snare Murphy, Gibbs and finally Kruezer in the "Krueser Cup" during consecutive years from 2005-2007. As for West Coast, like Collingwood , played in 2 consecutive GFs actually winning it in 2006. Yet in 2008 are that woeful that they pick up Nik Nat with pick 2. All this evidence against other clubs and yet it us who no-one disputes were/are totally crap are labelled "the tankers."

Such hand wringing! Get a grip ppl. Clubs have been effectively tanking since they realised the importance of the draft 10 or 15 years ago. There is hardly a club that hasn't had a priority pick primarily through resting players at the end of the year when those at the top of the ladder were giving their best players jabs to get them through. Then there are the other forms of sanctioned cheating, the father son picks, priority zones, expanded salary caps. Roos club was/is the beneficiary of two of these. It's true that Melbourne have stuffed it up (the draft picks) but guess what? We would be worse off without them. Roos can bang on all he likes about the MFC not standing for anything because we stand for the MFC whereas the club he deserted is dead and buried.

I know the administration isn't out there playing at the G, or pulling match day moves, but they have now been in charge of 4 disastrous years of footy. What blame do they get? I always found it odd that Connolly was suddenly silenced. Never to be heard or seen again. The rumblings about him were loud. And negative. Same goes for Schwab, who was out the door until 186 happened. I'm not about to run for election here (sorry to disappoint!), but I certainly would like to see an amicable push for change at the top. Jim did what he had to do to save us from death, and I will forever love him for that, but the rest of the men who came with him should now be accountable for what is happening not just off, but also on the field. They, after all, chose both footy departments.

I go to school and still whack off to Spankwire videos, so clearly I'm not qualified. But I well and truly hope Schwab gets executed when the time comes.

But then ... why didn't tanking affect Carlton, West Coast, Collingwood or Hawthorn's culture in such a way. Unfortunately there are no simplistic conclusions in this matter.

JR I won't yell at you But I do share the sentiment. We are irrelevant in 2012 and have been since the first couple of games. 2013 will be similar, any one that thinks with our list we will win more than a hand full of games next year is ignoring reality. It is time that a number of people involved with the management of MFC either stood down or were asked to leave. Over the last 4 years they have bought us to this point. We are the laughing stock of the league. Drastic situations deserve drastic action.

Of course the AFL know it happened, they just have nothing to gain for making a huge issue out of it, but rather just deny it and quietly change the priority pick rules. Sadly ironic that tanking, among a myriad of other reasons, is crippling our club today when we are meant to be reaping the rewards of it. Karma has come around and severely [censored] slapped us in the face.

Agree which is why I previously asked what has the list done to inspire the neeld haters/doubters that Neeld can't coach.

I think it's obvious that he did. Scully was offered far more than he was worth, and the decision to pursue him and pay him so much can hardly be called a sound business decision - an unproven young player with a dicky knee? Well, we profited from the deal, so should we complain about it? No. But by the same token, can we be done listening to his rants though? There's nothing worse than listening to a senile, bitter old man berate others for his failures.

Yeah, bit rich coming from a now Carlton player. Never more blatant tanking than during the infamous Kruezer cup. TJ had like 58 disposals FFS!

Neeld is himself only the face of a football dept and the Board that arranged them. He carries the bucket,of things good and bad. I have faith in Neeld , as a representative of the change thats occured at the MFC. The change not only embodies the personnel it is representative of a shift in methodology as well as assessment and accountability. For far too many years talk from the club was in generalisations and non specific rhetoric. i.e We have a vision , we have great people...and such. It's what the members wanted to hear but it wasnt backed up with any structure or resources. The current setup; FD and associated staff now have a much better and more specific outline of who and what they are and where they are supposed to get to. Mor eimportanlty they are now being given the tools and people to make this happen. It wont happen overninght. Nothing does. It wont happen in a year. it would be foolhardy and ignorant to presume it could. I am mostly impressed by the actuality of the club conceding that a lot that has gone before was simply wrong and that it had to change.. We can see the foundations of change in place. I am prepared to wait a reeasonable time to see something built out of all this. If we are treading water in 2 seasons time then it wil have come to nought. It's not 2 years hence, it's now. Not enough of a process has transpired to make a categorical call . Until it is. Im prepared to beleive the current FD and such are on the right path.

I counted 7 players on that injury list that would be in our best 22. Hoping that some of the 'sky is falling/sack the coach' types are paying attention.

Top effort from Nicho to play on with a fractured jaw

Some dont want to consider,let alone concede such factors. Might lead to a balaced judgement.

couple goals down, round 16 1994. Chopper and the lovetts are playing. I would give anything to get these days of joy back or to even be competitive.

Couldn't really give a sh!t to be honest. The line about him investigating us rather than the other way sounds like a break up where the bloke will claim he ended it, just to make himself sound better with his mates. Don't think he can stand the idea that people think he got declined for a job.

I for one would love to know why we passed on Sheedy. Not that i necessarily wanted him as coach, but what was the reason for passing up a 4 time GF Coach and taking an untried Bailey. Ask the right questions Shehan.

Anyone who in any way tries to excuse the pitifully weak and gutless performances of the MFC in 2012 should take themselves off to the nearest Auskick session on Saturday and see how many kids they can find wearing MFC jumpers. If you find 1 in a 100 that would be a good result. We have one of the oldest supporter bases in the competition and have not even come close to replacing the last few generations as they die off. We lost the last generation of potential supporters, are losing the current generation, and will lose their kids and probably their kids' kids too. My son is two and I am trying to brainwash him, but I wouldn't blame him for a second if he decided to support a decent team. This club has got about three years to become relevant and competitive or you can basically guarantee that there will not be a Melbourne Demons in the 2016 competition.

Sheedy is a media tart. What a great way to deflect the fact that his team has lost by massive margins every week, the players they spent large coin on are not delivering and there are bigger crowds at the opening of a pizza box. Sorry Sheeds, get over yourself. Unless you have a time machine, it is OVER. Get it? Or do I need to publish something in the Seniors magazine? Maybe if you focused less on the media and more on the Lesser Blacktown Rabble maybe you, too, could get some results. And if you believe that you had the upper hand in any multi-candidate interview process, you really are an egotistical [censored]

I think it's a well known and accepted fact that no side is allowed to train on the MCG, so apart from the club officially telling the members that's the case I can't see much merit in that. By Creed, are you suggestion a Mission Statement of some kind, if so I would imagine they already have one and I would imagine it's already available upon request. We have a coach that has a very ordinary list and he told the board that when they hired him. What he does with the list over the next 2 years will determine whether he can coach or not but to suggest he be sacked after 17 games is just idiotic. tona whatever is carrying on like a child that didn't get what he wanted for Christmas and is coming up with hair brained schemes that will never be implemented or work. If anyone has some suggestions that have some merit then good, let us all know what they are, but to just get on here and say you want the impossible without thinking it through then the credibility levels are zero. If you have concerns then ring Chris and speak to him, he is accessible.

There is a definite life cycle that exists inside Demonland, given our current form it seems even more pronounced. Weekend: Given our form, the match thread and the post match threads are full of emotion, frustration and grief. I personally don't involve myself too much in posting through this time, but I do read a certain number of people's posts either because: a ) they are level headed and I like to get a perspective of the game from these people, and b ) some people's best work comes out of dealing with the typical 'Sack X player/coach/board' posts that eventuate later in the evening after a game First half of the week: A few die hard grumblers still hang around peddling their wares, but generally people have taken a breath, and things start to settle down. We have had time to look at the game again (if we are saddists) we've listened to the coach post match, and some of the players.... and possibly an injury report etc. Some interesting threads might occur during this time, although its more likely to be what do you think about player X from club Y, or select 5 people to cull from the list version6, Second half of the week: This is the time of the optimists. Our perennial happy folk who reckon they have a good feeling, a hunch, or an itch y butt which normally means the boys are going to have a win. But never fear all the naysayers out there, this is also a good time for the 'glass half empty' folk as they get to eagerly wait for the team to be announced only to bemoan that the team will never score goals with a forward structure like that, or how did X get another game after last weeks effort. So, what about it? which part of the week do you prefer in the demonland posting cycle of lift? (oh and any lurkers who just like to read instead of post.... you don't need to reply or post here, am not trying to expose people ) For me I think I prefer to post towards the middle/end of the week, I try to avoid the weekend as much as possible, but do like reading late Sunday and early in the week....

I was at the game and this is unmitigated crap. I know he's a soft target for everybody, but he did put his body on the line on a number of occasions, especially when he was running on the wing and knew someone was coming the other way. He's lost me too, because of his decision making and turnovers, but he played a decent game at Frankston. Unlike others I think this week's team selections will be fascinating. We've a month of the season to go, there will be major changes at season's end, we've got players such as Morton and Gysberts coming off good games and we're up against the Gold Coast at home. Chatting to my Brother today and he's convinced that if Morton and Gysberts are not selected for this game then you won't see them at the club next year. I think he's right. If you're not going to play these two players now they're definitely not in your future plans.

Just for shits and gigs I will contribute...... I guess the problem with philosophy is that it never holds up in practice. To explain my statements - it's fine to have an idea or a way you want your team to play it's getting the team to execute it is the real challenge. No shite we've had a bad year - there are a number of reasons you can list why. (injuries, form, poor leadership, poor preparation, players simply not good enough to compete at AFL standard) Whatever reason you can think of has happened to this club this year. Back to your point - Neeld hasn't chosen his crop of players to implement his philosophy of football on. The few players he has brought in (Mitch Clark, and the draftees look promising) they've shown a little. This club needs to harden the f*@k up and stick together - give Neeld a chance to implement his style and philosophy otherwise we will continue down the same path going nowhere.

He is struggling at the moment (whether that's due to the captaincy, fitness, game plan or a combination) but mark my words he will be an absolute gun a couple of years time with some maturity and more miles in his legs. He is great overhead, can kick a goal, has strength through the hips/core, does the 1%ers and even while struggling can still get the footy etc I see him as a Bartel type player and think he can get to that level with a few more years experience.

The Earl of Spalding

Agree. He is leadership in action. Let's hope that the younger players can follow his example to develop a better culture, as well as better performance.

What a [censored] post. He finally displays the virtues of a first round draft pick, for which he's been rightly lauded, and you won't blame him if he wants to leave because it's a little bit tough ? Yet in the same instance you probably want other players to show the same heart. Is that hypocritical ? Players appreciate success even more when they've done the hard yards. Let's encourage them to stay true to the cause and not look for the easy road out.

'It's just rubbish to watch and will cost us members.' If you're talking about the hysteria on Demonland after a loss then I couldn't agree more.

Probably because he's not going to be dropped by Neeld when he's captain. Also I thought he was serviceable yesterday, plenty more needed from him though. Out: Jetta (sus), Bail, Joel Macdonald/Sellar, Dunn Ins: Gysberts, Couch, Watts, Morton Watts is a no brainer if fit. I think it's about time Gysberts got a game, his talent is unquestioned and he's been in the bests for long enough now, he's earnt a recall. Morton should be given a last ditch chance to salvage his career with Melbourne, and it really costs us nothing. If he goes long and direct with his kicking he looks ok, the moment he starts to get cute that's when he gets in trouble. Couch has gone back to the VFL and seemingly done what he needed to go, I want to see him get another chance. On match ups, I want us to send Jordie to perhaps Bennell, fact is Ablett is likely todo as he pleases no matter who we put on him, no make sure he's a lone soldier.

Can MFC, in it's current circumstances, afford to give Neeld as much time as Hawthorn & Geelong could? That's the problem. If it's going to take 3 or 4 years for Neeld's plan to bear fruit, can the club sustain itself until then? You might be able to, but can the whole membership? For example, I doubt that we can afford to give Neeld the amount of time that Bailey was given - that was 3-4 years. That's got to be a concern.

Seriously, much of this discussion is off the point. Take Goldstein (Jamar), Petrie (Clark), Bastinac (Watts), Harvey (Jurrah), Number 34 - forget who he was but they went through him a bit - (Davey) and a couple of others and see how Norf goes. Thaipants says they toyed with us. That is just hyperbole. They could not score for 10 minutes into the second quarter. They did us with terrific running and linking over the course of 25-30 minutes from the first and third quarters but for lengthy passages our work ethic and occasional efficiency kept us in it. At the moment Norf has one injured player - McIntosh - who is easily replaced with their wealth of talls. So far as it says anything about the coach, last year this would have been a 90 point thrashing. He has improved the group even if he unravelled them to begin with.

i rest my case

Melbourne supporters in Sept 07: "Bailey can get us playing finals again, he won't be the soft touch Neale was..." Melbourne supporters R1 08: "WTF!? Oh well, clearly ND & CAC have left the list in a shitful state. Time to move on the older players, blood some youth & rebuild through the draft to complement our talented youth in McLean, Bate & Dunn." Melbourne supporters in July 09: "Bailey needs to tank, his job depends on it. Scully will transform the culture of our club." Melbourne supporters R1 10: "FFS Bailey! We're not trying to lose games anymore!" Melbourne supporters R17 10: "FWGJAM. I don't see who or what can stop us becoming the next superpower now. We've timed our run perfectly, sucks to be Richmond or West Coast right now." Melbourne supporters R6 11: "Bailey has NFI. Look at his win loss record. Sack him, appoint Malthouse." Melbourne supporters Sep 11:"Ok so we didn't get MM but Neeld is the next best thing, our very own mini Mick. He's the no nonsense type that our group needs & won't be the soft touch that Bailey was." Melbourne supporters R1 12: "WTF!? Bailey & BP have left the place in a shitful state. We need to build through the draft & compliment the talented youngsters on our list. At least Neeld will give us the steely edge that was missing under that idiot DB." Melbourne supporters July 12: "I am really worried. We are worse than last year. I miss Dean. Neeld is only going to cost us members & send us further backwards." Amirite?

Would you be interested in a friendly wager? If Neeld is not fired before the beginning of next season, what would you do? Refuse to post again? (please)

Sorry Range Rover! Meekest M performance I've seen this year(Believe this is saying something!!!). Kangaroos did precisely whatever they wanted to and turned it on at the flick of a switch.. Melbourne only scored when Kangas rested. How long is MN contract? Surely we don't have to endure 2 more years of this. Neeld has shown bad judgement from the time he started at Melbourne. Who on earth would want to come to Melbourne under Neeld? Players simply are not playing for him. He's not a motivator. Players are not passionate. Final score did not reflect the vast gap between the two teams. Sad SAD. Positives? Yes Jones and should be elevated to Captain next year. Sylvia's last quarter. Tom Mc easily our best defender with Grimes also battled hard. Moloney busted his backside first game back. Bail, Frawley, Green, Howe and McTagger and Spencer all at least tried. The rest didn't show heart or passion for the white jumper.