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Pretty amazing thread so far Had a great debut against the bench mark team of the time - when we were horrible he was the only one who put in Backed it up the next week against a top 8 contender Was on track against Collingwood the next week (eventual premier) before that dog Barham put his knees into his back and put him out for the rest of the year The following year (2011) when we were utterly horrible he put on some very good performances. Tackled relentlessly, gathered clearances, possession counts were good, was good against good and bad opposition (no flat track bullying) Suffers a late season injury, misses the rest of the year. Has an injury interrupted pre season. Neeld says he's fitness is way off par (for someone who is working in the guts as a clearance guy he needs a bigger body, something Bailey clearly didn't see fit to address) Neeld tells him to work on it in the 2, the guy breaks his jaw and misses over a month of footy, comes back and is working his way to the seniors Staggers me the expectation some people have on these kids. Give the Gys a full preseason and put him back in the engine room next to Jones / Viney / Grimes etc. and he'll be fine

It seems a long time ago that Bartel was shifted on to him in his debut game at Kardinia Park. Pros: inside mid, tall, smart player who makes quick and clever give offs, can find the ball, OK mark Cons: slow, poor endurance, weak upper body, below average kick, one sided, no elite skill or hurt factor, meanders around the ground Conclusion ? Limited to playing an inside role where he can be very clever with his give-offs, will generally make good decisions. May improve his tank to an acceptable level and has been curtailed by injury. No real elite trait, but may become a solid B grader. Needs luck with his body and greater strength. Worth persisiting with, but the clock is ticking. Next year is a big one for him. Has some trade value.

lol I didn't even think this was possible, you have taken a positive - made it a negative - and blamed Neeld. Again, not everything just slots nicely into your pre-determined argument. All it does is make you seem a tad foolish. Let's see your argument in a sentence: "Howe has improved, but if Neeld wasn't there he would have improved more." How do you know that, TPM? I have knowledge of alternate realities, rpfc. Oh. Are you taken more seriously in that alternate reality? Not so much, no. Ah.

Seriously if a number 12 draft pick goes at the end of the year without playing a god damn game then WTF is club doing?

Agree. Gysberts, Trengove, Blease, Tapscott. Four players that need to look at where Jones has taken his game to and follow suit. These guys must be stamping their mark on games in 2013. People talk about needing to draft in midfielders, that's all well and good but we'll also need to see dramatic improvement and consistency from ou 21-22yo's. We will look a vastly different side if they can. C'mon lads ... apprenticeship time is over!

People who think there's ANY chance we'll delist Gysberts don't know enough to post here... (and that's saying something)

I've said this a million time over the last couple of years - his kicking action is deeply flawed, I've watched him very closely - he drops the ball way too high and nobody at the club seems to have told him or bothered to rectify it. Whenever he lines up for goal these days just put it down as a point. He has his moments (although not this year) but they are generally few and far between.

I reckon if you are a fringe player in the team at the moment it's more than likely the club is working out wether your a keeper or not. If yours young bloke coming back from injury and you are plying away at casey then you are being groomed for next year. Gys will be right

What a great position our club is in come years end, we lose one outside mdfielder and we are in the position to get 3-4 highly rated young players(subject to trading). In 2009 we drafted at the time to two stand out midfielders at pick 1 and 2, great kids both a mile ahead of pick 3, move forward 3 seasons later and rank players from that draft, these two wouldn't be in the top 5. Go over the years and there are hit and misses every year, just because you are considered a top 5 pick at the time you are drafted doesn't mean you will be live up to that draft pick. The more players you can pick up with in the top 25 the more chances you have to hopefully unearth some real talent. I'm not concerned were we take Viney, if he cost pick 3 no issue we still get another 3 picks that should be prior to 25, it would be a bonus if we keep 3 and use our second round pick on him but we are fortunate to be in a position that we have been given additional first round picks that will enable to us at worst case not only get Viney but two more picks including the third live pick. I don't care who we take with our picks as long as they can kick and get the footy.

Morton won't be playing at all this weekend. He's been spotted heading to Splendour In The Grass: That might explain his consistent underperforming ...

I find it somewhat ironic that when Bailey took over, the playing list he inherited was incapable of playing his gameplan. It was a squad trained to play a slow, long kicking, contested style of football who couldn't execute the run and carry style Bailey wanted. But over time the list turned over and those remaining from the old days plus the new guys gradually adopted the Bailey style. Nevertheless, it didn't ultimately succeed and some would say it was destined never to do so because the style had become outdated. (Not sure I agree with that last point - ie, that it was outdated - but it's now academic anyway). Exit Bailey and enter Neeld who has inherited a playing list incapable of playing his gameplan which appears to be a slow, long kicking, contested style of football. I don't think the playing list is as bad as it looks - it's just not yet capable of playing the Neeld gameplan. Will it ever? Probably. The squad needs to be fitter and stronger and it needs to be able to play the gameplan intuitively. Some of the current stock can do it now and some over time will be able to do so. And some won't because they are either not skilled enough, not interested or just not suited to the style - and those players will move on. But to criticise Neeld for the onfield performance going backwards this year is just silly. He has a long term plan. I imagine he expected a better performance than he's got, but it's always been about changing for the future rather than expecting success in the now.

They won't get rid of Bartram, Bail, or Jetta. I'm not a Bail fan due to his turnovers, but they like his pace and he'll have a crack. Jetta made some mistakes in his first game back from a long lay off due to injury, but he had a great game for Casey the week before and even against Port he showed that he's nimble, has a knack of getting the footy and his pace is actually pretty decent; and certainly better than some have given him fredit for. Supporters [censored] and moan about every skill error, but coaches don't. They tend to look at what a player brings to the table and what they can do, rather than spending their life worrying about the odd errant kick, or poor decision. Jetta has talent to work with.

Bail Bate Bennell Bartram Dunn Jetta Morton Petterd Spencer There you go, as requested. Is this topic done now? On topic: Morton is contracted and I'd consider keeping Jetta. Other than that, I agree. 7 senior players, 8 if you count Jetta. Green will be gone allowing us to promote another veteran (I think) so that's one additional senior spot, plus I'd look at delisting another fringe player like Joel Macdonald. Edit: I also don't reckon the club shares your view on Bartram unless his knee is really buggered

Who knows whether Denham is right, or not, but Melbourne supporters shouldn't be offended. If I was Cloke there'd be no way I'd consider Melbourne.

"The tom toms are beating very, very strong that the deal is done ... there's no talk coming from management, but in the old days on The Footy Show I might have been walking out rubbing my hands together saying we've got the best story of the year," McGuire said. Yep Cloke is headed to Carlton, hope you are rubbing your hands together Ed.

He modelled his game on his favourite player Pendlebury, and if you can't see the similarities between the way the 2 play, you must be blind. The kid is in his 3rd year, has suffered injury setbacks and needs to build his body & fitness from a (club imposed) low base. Give it a rest.

Great article in The Age this morning. Good luck Brad for your 250th. Thanks for all you have given the club

Sometimes I am bewildered by the so called media.Only difference between Jarman and a bloke down at the pub talking crap is Jarman has a microphone.

Agree entirely. But I think we are trying to turn him into Ryan O'Keefe and he should be very, very happy about that. A bloke who can get 22 touches and kick 3 goals is pretty bloody handy. No, Colin, I wasn't talking about you. We stopped geting excited about two drunken incidents back.

He's not one I'd move on. I'll be disappointed if we do. We've seen what he's got but we haven't been able to get the environment conducive to regular exciting footy. Can you imagine how Steve Johnston would have gone on his own @ Melbourne over the last 3 years?

Poorest ball drop of any Melbourne player I can ever recall, including Bruce. Shanahan and Ingerson were probably better. Petterd is a victim of genetics like countless Melbourne players before. Not big enough to be a KPP. Not quick or agile enough to play a crumbing role, nor the tank to run through the middle. Combine that with an under resourced footy department with NFI where he should be played and you'll wind up with a tweener with obvious talents but unable to utilise them consistently. See M Bate and L Dunn for further examples.

It was a bit of a shock to the bigfooty experts, who generally had him going 10 places later. 2 teams universally lauded for their astute recruiting, the cats and swans, were both fans and were said to have been set to take him with their picks if he lasted that long. Instead they had to settle for Mitch Duncan and Lewis Jetta respectively. He'll be fine - has undoubted talent, but has been held back by poor fitness, injuries and I think a lack of leadership at the club has slowed his development (that's not to say he won't get there, just that he'll take a little longer than he may have at a strong cultured club).

Does that mean we are in Deep Crap?

I'm in Melbourne for work next week. Was planning on flying in mid arvo and meeting some mates at Carlton v Richmond. About a month I decided to brave a 6:05am Saturday flight out of Perth so I'd be in Melbourne in time to get to Etihad. So I'm getting up at 4:15am, when it will be about 1 degree, to cab it to the airport for a 4 hour flight. all to see a game against a team we can't beat at the best of times at a stadium we can never win at. Clearly, I'm a [censored].

Congrats to brad! I know it's common knowledge but I thought I'd point out it is definitely Jack Watts fault he won't get to 300.

I don't expect miracles, but what I do hope and pray for is that we get (either by drafting or trading or poaching) are some players that I love to watch. Sometimes I can come to terms with the team being rubbish, but I just want a genuine gun to watch and marvel at. Many teams that have gone to the bottom have had these players, I just need one or two. At the moment Clark is almost there (love watching him, but need to see more) and that is about it unfortunately. Richmond have been horrid for ages but got the pleasure of seeing Martin and Cotchin develop and play - they are worth watching and cause excitement. Please - lets just get a few stars to our club, people we can build a club around. Not fussed if we dont climb the ladder quickly as long as we keep adding the occasional gun to the list.

I was permanently banned from there, thats why I'm back. PS. They are looking for good moderators if you are interested.

Morton is contracted for 2013 and unfortunately has no trade value. Otherwise you are correct. I think your list is pretty good. I wrote this on the Brad Green thread: "If you want to improve you have to get rid of the dead wood. And from this year we have stockpiled this stuff and alot it is 23+ and not much chop. I have the following players out the door (not in order of preference): Green (retired hopefully), Bate, Dunn, Petterd, Joel Mac, Bail, Gawn/Spencer/Martin (one of), Jetta and Sellar. This is before we make a decision on Cook, Gysberts, Morton, Beamer and Davey. I would only keep one of Magner or Couch and that would be as a rookie." Note I have added Gawn to the rucks. We wont keep all three of them and only Martin has trade value if Neeld thinks he can make something of Gawn or Spencer. I reckon you can potentially add FItzpatrick to the consideration of his future. If and I mean if (and I wouldnt!) MFC picked up McLean on a bottom line salary then I would get rid of Magner and Couch all together. I would be surprised and disappointed if they did not cut at least 8 but up to 10 players at the end of season via the draft or delist. "

I'd guess the following will stay: Bail Bartram Jetta Morton Spencer I think Morton has a year on his contract doesn't he? Bartam works hard and I think the cub is erring on the side of hard work over 'potential'. Spencer is playing with aggression and I'd think next year he'll need to come on but I would think they'd give him another season. Jetta's injuries will give him more time too I think. Let's be clear. I'm not advocating for any of these guys but I also think we have to be realistic about how deep we want to go in the draft and with trading. If we lose more than 7-8 I'd say we make it harder in the short term when injuries hit.

No he is just an idiot plain and simple.

What about Liar by Megadeth for next home game vrs GWS?

back in the good (read sensible) old days of 1sts and reserves teams players would play for YEARS in the twos before they were considered ready for promotion and as a result they the skills, fitness, maturity and hunger to be successful.Just saying thats all.

lol...again. Found the thread from 2011 - http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/28328-jesse-white/page__hl__white And 2010! (with a bit of 2011) - http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/23203-the-jesse-white-thread/ I was in incredibly good form in that second thread. Ironically, I was initially fawning over White, but then 'Pow! Right in the kisser!' did some good things.

The problem is that he is a massive application tease. You can't get 12 Inside 50 tackles against the Tigers and then nothing for a month as he did a couple years back. Consistent effort is required for Ricky and he lets himself down here. I think he can be a useful player, but I don't think it will be with us. Shame.

Even the mighty Stan Alves and Mark Maclure would bang on about Tom after some of our 2010 wins. Unfortunately, Tom hasn't lived up to his expectations; fortunately for him, he has become a wealthy man at a young age. He was too young to bluff his way through 2010, he is a footballer not a PR man. Still, his pantomine messed with our club and helped undo steadily improving performances. We have come out of the experience somewhat 'sullied' but have the afl's draft picks in our saddlebags, and have used the tom money wisely to secure a player who does live up to his reputation.

Hate the bastard and as l knew all along he is the most overrated player in the history of the game...........good on ya Sheeds, you dropkick

They've only been in the comp 5 minutes. Get back to me when they've notched 150 years and we can compare worst, best, etc. but I'm tipping by then they'll have gone the way of University.

The question was rhetorical (look that word up). Not bitching. Just demanding better.

Scully lost nothing leaving Melbourne. One win the difference and no scrutiny and stacks of cash in Sydney. Thread title just silly. I really fear for our club right now. Little to get excited about.

If that's what we're hanging our hat on we're in big trouble.

Jordie Tackles - You are referring to Round 2 2010, where we lost by a point to Collingwood and he kicked 4 I think it was and shut Heath Shaw out of the game in the process. His VFL form wasn't crash hot, so I reckon the last couple of weeks have been Neeld having one last look at him and he would be suitably unimpressed. Expect him to be gone at the end of the season, and I also think he will get picked up by Gold Coast or someone else.

Bailey gave blokes games that hadn't earnt them for 3 1/2 years. All in the inane belief that "getting game into them" was all that was required. Thats why Watts coasted for 3 years. Get the little bastards hungry.

a "large" number of north fans in one place ? you must work at the club )

It would be good to stuff Norths season. Wankers...

If he was an average 3rd year player on an average salary then a 3/10 performance rating this season seems appropriate. For a No 1draft pick and arguably highest payed AFL player in the comp he should rate 0/10 on a performance scale expected for that calibre of player. I agree she has been very generous.

those brown paper bags are annoying !!

Far be it for me to support Tom but it shows exactly the predicament Melbourne is in. You can't bring in raw talent without proper senior player leadership. Throwing in Junior and Chad Cornes was never going to cut it. Ablett was a proven performer and could be relied upon. $cully will take years to come good if ever. IN fact it may damage his development to the point that he never makes it as an A grade player. In fairness to him he would have copped a lot of scrutiny in Melbourne at the Dees so he might as well cop it at GWS and comfort himself with the $6mill!!!! He is basically too small with an average kick but a tremendous work ethic. The fact that he has a dodgy knee means he could be a complete dud. I have a sneaking suspicion that Sheedy targetted him because of his hatred for Melbourne. And I hope they both suffer big time for it.

Tom doesn't know the meaning of fun and they are in for worse than they have shown .Wait till everyone gets the hell out of there and goes back home . We , as a club ,are in a dark place but the light will appear soon .

Hard to argue with that. Imagine if he had stayed and we were paying him $600k a year, we would have a mutiny on our hands. The 2 compo picks are starting to look really attractive now.

It will take a few years to be sure about Tom, but as long as we don't absolutely stuff up these compo picks, this has been a big big win for us.