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I'm not a frequent poster by any means on the forum, but I do read it quite often, especially after matches. There's a common lament that's thrown around quite a bit each week; that we've lived through x years of rebuild, and we shouldn't be in this position now, but we should be playing (imagine!) finals footy. I don't disagree with the latter part of the statement, but I'm not sure I completely agree with the first part. I'm an unashamed supporter of Neeld (we'll get to that), and I'm generally optimistic about where we're heading, because I don't believe that this is a rebuilding period; instead, we're building. In other words, Neeld's (re)build is emphatically not a continuation of Bailey's, but is a completely different beast, and an ambitious one at that. Let me explain. The team under Bailey seemed to be constantly in a rebuild phase: it became almost an axiom of the team. I'm not sure whether Bailey was a bad coach, but he certainly wasn't an ambitious one. By that, I mean that he seemed to be rebuilding, while waiting (patiently!) for a finals opportunity to conveniently present itself. He had an aim, but no objective, the latter being a quantifiable outcome (like "improve kicking efficiency," "improve ratio of tackles to opposition possessions per game", etc.), and the former being the end-goal (which doesn't at all have to be realistic). The club under Bailey was reactionary, conservative; the only really great performances were when the game was on their terms, or when they were criticised of being mediocre (see for example the "bruise-free footy" win over Essendon). They never really attacked games, and I think this was the fault of the insidious "we'll get there one day (but we're not good enough today!)" mentality created by calling it a rebuild. We always had the talent, but never the desire. Neeld inherited a directionless team. A team that was waiting around to get into the finals, without fighting for it. A rebuild requires that there are some salvagable parts with which to work with. (Renevations à la Buckley's Collingwood are even easier! Just replace a coat of paint, and you're done! ). Neeld said pretty early on, and he has said at almost every opportunity since, that he is working towards something new. A new brand of football, a new intensity at the ball, all overseen by a new coaching staff. Neeld has an ambition, and he said it as soon as he was made coach: to make us the hardest team to play against in the league. I don't think I've heard him say anything about winning a flag, or playing in the finals (I could have missed something, of course). Every team wants to win the flag. Bailey wanted to win the flag. But you can't win the flag by simply saying that you're going to win the flag. Being a "good" team isn't particularly specific or helpful for any real course of action: many different teams are good at different things; even two "good" teams (e.g. Collingwood and Hawthorn) are "good" in different ways. Being a tough team to play against, on the other hand, has defined parameters, and a defined path to achieve it (improve contested possessions, restrict ball movement, etc.). Neeld is building from scratch, a new team with a new mentality. Neeld's Demons will be, in the future, a proactive team, have no doubt. We have had a shocking year. I'm not that naive. We've won less games than under Bailey. There's no denying that. But there have been few games where I've been disgusted by how the team looks like it didn't show up, whereas that was most of the time with Bailey. Three quarters of a season and a preseason can't erase completely that mentality of rebuilding. But it's going. It takes a hell of a lot longer to build a house from scratch than to rebuild one. Bailey's house was hideous sometimes, pretty others, but was always shaky, and there is no way it could have gone any higher, because the foundations (which I think are the ambition of the archetect) were always faulty. Neeld is laying new foundations. They don't look like much now, but the house built on them will be a hell of a lot prettier than Bailey's. Edit: spelling(s)!

another huge day on Sunday for our favourite son - 5 kicks 12 handballs in a 95 point loss, worth every penny of the minimum 50 grand a game he gets averages 5.5 kicks a game over the last 4 matches - star

We recruited a coach - not a magician. He inherited a woefully unskilled, inexperienced and unfit list. There's probably 15+ players who aren't up to standard and need to go - it will be cleaned out but it can't be done in one year! It's pretty clear that some players just won't play for him - they'll go. Others are just woefully out of form - but the players that are running around now are giving their all for him - some just aren't AFL players but that's not his fault - he didn't recruit them but he's stuck with them for now. Further, his predecessors discarded any experienced players that we had way too early - it's not just coaches who teach players - the senior players need to teach them as well - of which we have next to none. Let's see how we're looking when his contracts up - rediculous saying that we should look at sacking him after 1 1/2 seasons because we were better last year - I don't care how many games we won against the lower teams, we lost by 31 GOALS 1 year ago this weekend...

From Alistair Clarkson's first year in 2005 there are only 10 players that remain on the list. Some, like Crawford and Croad, retired as premiership players, but plenty were culled over his first few years. Neeld will do the same. Hawthorn are an interesting case study. Franklin and Roughead were drafted the year before Clarkson arrived and he also had Hodge, Mitchell, Sewell, Lewis, Osborne, Crawford, Bateman and Croad on the list; so he had a solid core of 10 to work with. From there they had wins and just as many losses on draft day. Top 35 picks that haven't worked: Morton, Dowler, Thorp, Muston and Bailey (knees) and the ones that have: Rioli, Whitex, Birchall, Shiels, Schoenmakers and recently Isaac Smith. Xavier Ellis can also now probably be called a miss, but I recognise he was in the best 3 on the ground in their premiership victory. Hawthorn are the perfect example that you can make mistakes in the draft (including trading Josh Kennedy to Sydney), but if you get a solid core of 16 or so players, plus have a sprinkling of guns on your list (Buddy, Hodge, Crawford, Roughead, Rioli) you can develop into a very competitive side. I think we've got some solid citizens too, but just not the top end talent. Unlike many, I reckon along side Clark that Trengove can develop into a gun, Frawley will be a gun in a decent side and we've got massive opportunities in this draft. I'll let others ponder who may make the next step up. Stars make the players alongside them better and our challenge is obviously midfield talent, but even Hawthorn show that you don't need the best midfield in the world if you've got talent across the field and some stars on your list. Sewell and Crawford are an example of how a couple of A grade mids surrounded by a mature group can make a difference. Clearly having a coach that has been at the helm for a number of years also makes a difference. I agree with the OP. Thomas, Pendlebury and Toovey came from one draft. Franklin and Roughead likewise. Sidebottom and Beams too. Our picks 3 and 4 should at least be the equivalent of the latter and hopefully they're supplemented by Viney. Hawthorn got Birchall at 14 and we need a player of similar quality with our pick 13. I still believe that our fortunes can change quicker than people think with a bit of luck and some astute drafting.

This is a thread to add some sense and sanity to Demonland following the spate of the knee-jerk "sack Neeld" threads that have popped up in the past 24 hours. Until we can get genuinely talented players in our midfield, we are going nowhere. Get it? N - O - W - H - E - R - E A Cotchin. A Deledio. And a Martin. That's what we need to find at this year's draft. Hawthorn also did it with Franlkin, Roughead and Rioli. Collingwood did it with Pendlebury and Thomas. Geelong did it in the early 2000's. Now it is our turn to hit the jackpot. It wouldn't matter if Norm Smith himself came back from the dead to coach us if we don't.

I'm very active in that thread advocating a one-year extension for Bailey at the start of 2010 to the end of 2011 and I'm fine with that. The argument then and now was that after requiring Bailey to tank for 2 years in 2008-9 it was going to be hard to tell whether he could coach in the first half of 2010, but we'd probably have a fair idea by the end of 2011. The Board and CEO seemed to think the same way. Sometime in that period the CEO came to the firm conclusion that he wasn't up to it and that was the basis of the fractured relations at the club at the time - pro-Bailey vs anti-Bailey. The Board was unable to get on top of this issue primarily because Jimmy took on a job he was unable to complete because of his health. Eventually after 186 almost everyone had come to the same conclusion Schwab had somewhat earlier. I reckon on a similar timeline - by the end of 2013 we'll have a fair idea whether Neeld is on the right track.

Its funny how we can all look at the same thing and come away with very different views and thinkings. I'm actually glad we are having the year we are having... thankgod its finally happened. What you may well ask ? Simple. We are stripping bare a team who has been very over-rated and deconstructing it back to a point whereby something can actually be done about it. An analogy was used in another thread about house reno's and this is exactly what this year is about. The FD is tearing away at the fabric of 'cover-up' . Its laying bare for , most importanly the FD, all to see and ajudicate. Despite all the hurrah and the hype we actually arent much chop. Despite this I see much good coming from it. I see hope , and real hope for a change, not the rushed papered over despair dressed up as false-dawn type that we've trooped out year after year. I think its marvellous that finally the problems are being not only addressed by recognised in the first place. This club has been in denial so long it started to beleive its own spin. The revolving has stopped. Some hard to swallow self truths are being dealt with. We play rubbish football because at least half our team simply wouldn't rate by comparison to the top teams of now. Strangely some do and its these players together with an injection of better and more capable kids that will , in years to come, bring us back to the game. i would only despair as some of you do if I thought this was going to continue to go on ad infinitum, to carry on as we were with no change, just bumbling along.. You have to tear down the facade before you can actually construct something of substance and I truly believe that wil NOW happen. All the snake oil salesmen have been [censored] off and realists brought in. Dont confuse the idea of accepting where we are on the ladder or our dismal performances with joy as Im not happy we play like this but I am buoyed in knowing that change has been implemented, real change that will result in real success, not just fleeting glimpses of a never materialising tomorrow.

I can't believe you Tonatopia, you are serious aren't you. I like what Neeld and his assistants are doing.. He has the Guts & dedication to strip back the deadwood & the Club culture to totally rebuild it. This in the short term has caused some pain & we'll have to trim a few off the list, but this will be the making of the clubs future starting from October this Year. I think the ones who cant see what he's doing, shouldn't say too much because if you can't see what they're doing, it means you just don't get it. If you don't understand something, then voting against it is done out of Ignorance. Many here can see whats taking place, & the coaching staff was obviously selected & brought in to do this tough job. They're just starting & the tumor is deeper then first thought at first Viewing from the outside. Hang in there, it'll be bumpy but an exhilarating ride. The end of the bumpy ride will be a wonderful pleasure.

Posters are bemoaning the plight of this club, yet many are baulking at this trade. Have a look at the Port game, no-one to kick a bloody goal. It's not just Cloke, it's about marketing, branding, hype, free press, culture, memberships and little kids wearing our magnificent colours again. Pick 3, 4, 12, Viney, Cloke, Clark, Howe, Jurrah, (hopefully) another year from Watts, Chip, Jones, The Jacks, Nicho, Gawn, (mebbe Cook?) and we're back on the back page! Get him, pay him!

But you get so many extra Clokes thrown in for that price. Oh wait... that's bad.

I just spat my coffee.

All I have to say is Neil Craig is there to over see the coaches including head coach & report to the board regularly, Im sure that he values his own job and would do it in all honesty. Have faith in the team we have in the FD which includes Rawlings, Craig & Misson. Neeld is there to stay and will see out his contract, meaning he will be there in 2014. They wont sack him. Im still unsure if he can coach but until we add talent & class he is p1ssing into the wind with what he's got. He's certainly getting the ball rolling into the right direction even though we arent seeing it onfield yet, but thats the players, not him. Things that I learnt from the coaches box last night were: Neil Craig sits in the corner quietly taking it all in, doesnt interfere or speak, has a joke around at the breaks - nice fella. Jade Rawlings was getting so frustrated at certain players, very involved. Leigh Brown is Neelds right hand man, very involved, always on the phone & in Neelds ear, was also extremely frustrated & angry. Neeld was very quiet, didnt say a hell of a lot really, was a strange experience, frustrated in the last quarter. Aaron Greaves is a bloody solid bloke! Dave Misson, Royal & Satterly were all on the bench working with players as they came off. Gysberts, Bate & Sellar were all very quiet also. Was really suprised at how quiet Neeldy was in the box, to me just looked cooked & obviously made up his mind on whos in & out with buying into the new regime, kinda get the feeling the axe will swing. I would love to see his updated whiteboard now with the holes in our team. Honestly one of the worst performances Ive personally seen live. Another strange thing was the constant miscommunication between everyone when two players would go to come off, get to the boundary only to be turned away so they'd have to run back. This would leave two Port players free & this happened multiple times. Im not sure where the mix up was coming from but it didnt help our cause much having 18 v 16 regularly!! Anyway hang in there Gremlins, Im very saddened & frustrated and all those words but it ain't going to happen overnight & I can understand the frustration after years of rot. We are on the right track with the FD, just wait to see some class players added & it could turnaround quickly. This years draft/trade/recruiting period is by far the most important ever. Neeld will be fine if we get this right.

I get really frustrated by people looking for a quick fix. We have tried that many times before and it always ended up in tears. For those who think we did better under Bailey they are obviously easily satisfied. As one poster pointed out as Cam Mooney said, if we had kept with him we probably would have won another 8 games this year, next year and the one after...but by then the club would have sunk into oblivion and probably receivership which would have forced a merger or worse. This is a desperate time, in spite of our reasonable financial position right now. We don't have the cattle on the park to get us where we "need" to be - it has moved on from where we "want" to be. Our recruiting both at draft and "experienced" player levels at the end of this season is vital. Vital, not so we supporters can walk into the office on Monday morning next year and know that we are not having to fend off the "hopeless" mantle we have. But more so the club is set up to make a proper tilt not just at winning a few games each year (and being boys who tried - and failed), but also those flags we so desperately have been missing. When I started following Melbourne in the late 50s (in last century's, VFL comp), Hawthorn had still not won a flag. Nor, had North Melbourne or even St.Kilda. And back then, we were the only "serious" contenders to Collingwood, Carlton and Essendon as a competition powerhouse. It was more than hubris and the "curse of Norm Smith". We hung on to our glorious past (an sometimes players) and the ways of running a club, for too long. If winning a few games every year, is all you want, I can't wait for the day when you opt out and follow another club. Meanwhile, I figure I've waited nearly 50 years...I have enough faith in what is being done at this time, to hang on a bit longer.

Anyone else think this thread could/should be locked until after the hearing to avoid any unneccesary speculation?

Fascinating new thread. Surely we just need to sack Neeld, Missen, the Board and 50 PC of our list, and buy them all gloves and the 2013 flag is a gimmee!!!!!

Ohhhhhhhhh that's why we lost... Not Bailey, Morton, Moloney, Schwabb, Pendergrast, Spencer, Trengove, Scully, or one of the other million reasons that people here put up every day...

Let's not forget that Dean Bailey won three games in his first year and a total of 7 games in his first two years. I'd be backing Neeld to be ahead of Bailey's record at the end of this year and well ahead at the end of next year. Bailey had a four year win record of 26.5%. Nothing to get excited about. I hope you're not holding up Bailey as an example of a winning coach. Neeld has a three year contract. His job is to build long term success. It aint gonna happen in one year. Is that so hard to understand?

G'day HG. Keep posting your occasional inner sanctum insights on the club, i really enjoy them. I'm interested in your view of how Neeld is going about things and feel you have been pretty consistent about this. Am i right in summarising your view as the jury being out (ie not 100% sold on him) but also prepared to give him enough time before deciding if you think he is a keeper? You seem a bit more bullish about Misson. It is interesting actually because he has great reputation for minimising soft tissue injuries. The Weapon was all the rage early in the year but the bombers soft tissue drama has practically wrecked their season. We have had a shocking run with injuries this year but as you note many have been collision injuries. This is a huge issue for a club that is already thin on the ground for talent. You also have noted on several occasions how unfit we were before this year. In your opionion what is realistic time frame to get the team up to the level Misson and Neeld want/need them at? I'd be guessing at least the rest of this year and two more pre-season.

So we aren't a 2 and 13 side? Are we a 4 and 11 side? 5 and 10? What crappy wins would make you feel more comfortable about life and the fact that Neeld is getting 'the most' out of the boys?

my housemates are richmond fans and we used to fly down from the gc to go to the games and it was a bit of a big deal, cartons on the line not to mention the bragging rights and the accompanied belief that we would win a flag first...this year they haven't even given me any crap about the state of affairs and that is so much worse lost interest in this season in rnd 5 after the st kilda game, tried to watch the port game twice and i keep turning it off or changing browser windows bring on next year, or maybe the year after or...bring on the mythical "one day"

Some of you are deadset delirious.!I love the fact you guys keep going over us winning 8.5 games last year, big deal? As Cam Mooney said on SEN a few weeks back, if bailey stayed coach we would of kept winning 8 odd games every year for 10 years, where does that get you? You fans just have to cop the fact the Bailey era was a complete waste of time and season 2012 is a complete restart and the magic aint gonna happen overnight. Is Neeld the right man? Way too early to tell, but all I know is a lot of premiership coaches started their first coaching season in a similar matter and we just have to be patient.

I seriously question the intelligence of anyone who thinks that Neeld should have done better to date. Mind boggling to see some of the unrealistic expectations some have. Where on earth was this improvement supposed to come from? Why is pertinent evidence consistently ignored? For a supposedly higher class of supporter that MFC has, some certainly are absolute planks.

Billy Mate. In case it has slipped by you we are this poor. We do not have to tank. We are achieving these results when we are trying 100% There is nothing clever going on we are a bottom 3 side.

I'd probably do something along the lines of switching Hawthorn's list for Melbourne's...

But but but they haven't been developed properly. Any of them.

Nothing that has happened today should cause any concern. Basil Jurrah had slight, albeit serious, injury to his scalp that required six stiches. Evidence so far presented affirms that he was struck repeatedly with a machete by Liam whilst his accomplice was pounding him with an axe.The defence will have a field day with that witness. I will be much more interested in the doctor's report.There seems to be doubt as to whether the injury was actually caused by a machete. As Liam was found carrying a machete, I am aslo very interested in the forensic report on that machete, and whether or not it was used in the assault.

Well done BG. Hope to see him finish his career well .A win or two would be a nice way to go .

Champion. At least another year in him!

So easy to post rubbish isn't it

Its his second post peoples. I know we are all looking for diversions but it is a reasonable topic. Jumping down someones throat might make you feel better for a minute or two,,,,,

Maybe we should hire Walter White as our coach.

Natopian culture is characterized by a general sense of aloofness, immaturity, and irreverence... possibly impatience as well?

Prosecutor says defendant did bad things.

Footy is footy Billy. Our players are just not fit to play the modern game. I find it incredible that the MFC has been in its little shell for so long. Why has the club been so clueless about modern standards?

Spot on jr Like bangkok demon I was lucky enough to be there in 64. I now have a simple approach after decades of new brooms at the MFC. I believe it when I see it. I still go to most home games but I do not expect to win, that way when they actually happen I have a good time and all the others are then bareable. God only knows why I still keep on keeping on. Probably to stupid to know when I am done. I would be joyed beyond belief to have a team that wins more games than it loses. Carn the Dees

I think "things are never as bad as they seem" is a maxim that can apply to life in general. Not just footy. We are three gun midfielders, a deadwood list turnover and two Neeld pre-seasons shy of team that people will sit up and take notice of. I fully believe this.

The trade that landed the Saints Milera and Saad was an absolute masterstroke. From memory they gave pick 20, and got Milera, Saad and pick 25 from GWS. All of a sudden with these two and Jack Steven coming on the Saints are a quick side. The Dees must do something similar with our pick in the low 40's and/or Bate, Petterd etc. I'm not sure how Tim Harrington still has a job when he was the 'List Manager' of a list with more holes than Swiss cheese.

lol WTF? What an absolute joke of a post this is - I reckon you just lost about half the people who would have agreed with you. Aside from picking the wrong 'RR' (I assume) the 'mental pigmie' (sic) and the 'inherited wealth' lines are just ripe for sarcastically sardonic satire.

The jury is out on this one doctor. The old man's is in pretty good health so we'll have to wait until around 2045 to see if Tona's prediction of employment problems plays out

We should have won the premiership this year with the list DB left us with. Any other coach ever would have won us the flag, our players are just that good. Damn you Mark Neeld for destroying our great list, its your fault Cale Morton was drafted at number 4, its your fault Moloney is a front runner and its your fault that Bate Petterd Dunn Bennell have all of a sudden gone from match winners/dominaters/brownlow medal favorites to absolute spuds! Lets bash on the coach, sack him and keep all of our guns. I hope he redrafts Newton, he was a potential AA forward until Mark got his dirty mitts on him.........jesus

I was there last century 1964. So I guess I could be classed as an "old time followed For what it's worth I believe this "build" under Neeld is the right thing for us at this point in time. I've waited 48 years...another couple of years won't hurt if it brings home the bacon. If it doesn't as Mark Neeld has said "we won't die not knowing". Stay the course fellow supporters we've not even finished the first quarter.

Please, post more often.

Mediocraty is a greek philosophical bookie who owned shares in the truth

What you say is pretty much true, it used to make me cringe when Bruce or Green would say "we didn't turn out to play", what did they turn out to do? The club has been directionless for years because of a inherent weakness that has weaved its way through the club from one generation to the next. I've pointed this out many times on here but there has been a reluctance to accept that this weakness could have crossed from administration to administration and from coach and players to coach and players; well it has and it must be eradicated. i believe that Neeld is aware of it and is trying to get rid of our acceptance of mediocrity and our seeming acceptance of failure; this is going to be a hard job but it's the only way we will rid ourselves of the stain of the last 48 years. It's pointless building the list up so we can merely compete in finals and when we lose just accept it, we need to build a club that can win finals and demand answers when we don't. I can recall when Hawthorn used to be our [censored], when we ruled the roost, when Sydney were a chopping block for the rest of the competition; these clubs have rebuilt themselves in to strong proud clubs whilst we've become an embarrassment.

Nah mate I really liked the comparison with the tigers over the last couple of years. I have a few tiger supporters as mates and they always looked forward to us vs them. Now those tigers always talk to me about melbourne with confusion as to what the hell has happened and I can't really give them a answer.

i, too, have felt particularly destraught this year - although, intellectually, I expected not much better. I hoped for 8-10 wins, but actually expected 4-6. It must be because I've been watching them since 1954 and grew up with expectations of better. You'd think that having been through the false dawns of 1987 -1992, and 1998-2004, I would have learnt - but no. A list that was as unfit as ours, had done nothing but downhill ski for years, could not be expected to learn to become defensive and gut run in a year. Their lack of fitness was bound to be shown up - particularly in the area of skills when fatigued or pressured. No coach aiming for long term success could find an easy fix. This team had to go a long way backwards before it could go forwards. Considering the injuries, all I now look for is committment and effort. And that is being provided. A viable game plan and the skilled execution of same will hopefully come, starting next year. Careful (and not overly excessive) list culling, and intelligent recruiting will hopefully see reasonable results as early as next season. For me, the important improvement will be in percentage - not games won. A percentage of over 95 will indicate that we are genuinely competitive. The jury is still out on Neeld, but as demon supporters we should all pray he's another red fox. It appears some of you desperately want him to fail - WHY?

I really have a problem with this 'accepting mediocrity' nonsense simply because I don't want to remove a coach less than a year into his 3 year contract and when I can see what he is trying to implement with a team that simply isn't good enough. We are not a good team - I want to improve our team and our club but this isn't as easy as removing a head coach - it's deeper than that. It's about finally putting some money into the sports science side of footy that the best teams are way ahead of us in and that is where the game is won and lost in today. We need to get our blokes bigger through the hips and arse without losing their speed, and we need to let those talented youngsters we have get the most of themselves instead of letting talent go to waste.

So let's consider. Neeld and Sanderson are both untried coaches. Neeld apparently gets his job without any alternatives being considered. Sanderson gets his job after at least three candidates are considered. Neeld then welcomes Sanderson's sacked predecessor as part of his new team. Sanderson welcomes Neeld's sacked predecessor as part of his new team. Neeld brings a complicated and barely ever successful gameplan to an unsuitable MFC list and it doesn't work. Sanderson implements a proven gameplan at AFC (essentially used at a few clubs) and it works. So Sanderson's sacked predecessor created Sanderson's success by producing a good playing list, but they didn't react positively to Sanderson's predecessor. Neeld's plan failure is attributed to inheriting a poor playing list, despite the number of high draft picks and mid-range ladder performance in previous years, and its all his predecessor's fault anyway. Sanderson's predecessor sits in the background behind Neeld. Sure sounds like a hollywood script, never mind reality getting in the way of a good story - if only it was that simple! How about an alternative analysis - Sanderson has people skills and can get his straightforward, logical message across (look at his interviews) - Neeld struggles to get his message across because it is illogical, unnecessarily complicated, and he isn't a good communicator (look at his interviews). But life couldn't be that simple could it!

This is my take on our position, we are not good enough in a number of areas, we know them and so do the Footy Department. The list is much poorer than many thought, we are not fit enough, we have a new batch of coaches with new ideas and plans that take time to adjust to, we have a weak midfield, no small forwards, lack of general pace other than a few like Nicho and Blease, poor disposal skill, weak culture and a lack of real hunger to succeed at all costs. Now what to do to fix that: first we must finish as low as possible to get the best picks and trading/drafting position, second, we must trade/deal and draft well with the minimum risk of failures, third, we delist those that are surplus and couldn't be traded, fourth, we get the players fit, fifth, we get the players absolutely familiar with the game plan, sixth, we empower our leadership group to change the culture with full support of the whole club, seventh, we get the players that are on the 2013 list to buy into the win at all costs culture, which simple means you do what you have to do to win. It all sounds pretty simple and of course it isn't, but surely that is the starting point. Last, if the FD agree with my positon on best draft picks being essential, then we needn't question team selection for the rest of the season. If the Dogs were to fall behind us on the ladder we would go back two picks, lose bargaining power to trade and deal with GWS for best Under 17's, probably lose or pay too much for Viney as Dogs would name him, whereas I believe GWS and GC won't, thereby lose another top player and maybe two top players with our later 2 picks than Dogs. In other words I see it as an absolute disaster to finish higher on the ladder. Maybe the FD agree. Things are working to that scenario with our heavy injury list so we don't need to ta-k. I can't even say the word. I believe with a good trade or two, a hard pre season, our best players being available, further development in several on our list and a a few good draft selections we can turn it around very quickly.

Thank christ for that...