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Making Collingwood overpay Cloke could squeeze out a mid on their list that we may have our eye on....

First person iv seen nail it on the head. the whole year is basically a bunch of practice matches for Neeld. See where the list is at, try out some structures, get the fitness up, and possibly even tank for pick #1 and #2 to fix up the midfield. Big player turnover this year.

I think you've missed the point. We are members and supporters of the club, we are not employed by the club. The players are employed by the club and paid very well and they represent the club whether they are out on the field playing or sitting in the stands watching. There is plenty of time to joke around and have a laugh with the boys, but I would have thought that when your team is getting belted and you are sitting in the stands watching, that is definitely not the time to be having a laugh. It looks bad and it's a bad image. I have not seen the one from the Hawthorn game on the replay yet, but I was at Geelong and saw the players on the big screen and it was not a good look.

A mate of Fitzgerald's

Open the article, copy the tail end of the URL beginning with "story". Paste that into google and a single link comes up for the full article.

Isn't our Jetta a cousin? and for the record I don't think any of us would have traded A Jakovich for his brother. Sure Glen was a great servant and won 2 premierships. But no-one would have missed being a part of the ride that Allan provided

Jose, I challenge you to post something without coming off like a sanctimonious turd. Okay, GO.

Unless of course he's one of the players who allegedly doesn't like Buckley and he does not want to leave Victoria...

I laughed at games during the 08-09 years. Had to. It was either that or cry... The players laughing while watching the game or staying on the field after the game doesn't tell they don't care. Their awful, indifferent, and faithless performances do.

I laughed at my Dad's funeral - multiple times, and occasionally quite hard. Why? Cos funny stories were told and funny things happened. I also happened to be more sad than I've ever been in my life. I know, I know, what a dreadful, awful, horrible person I am. I should've sat in stony faced silence the whole time.

What a load of rubbish, his finest moment was signing a $6 million contract.

For it to happen two weeks in a row is not a good look. I can guarantee if the camera was pointed at me at any stage during the game I would not be smiling or joking around. If I were on the team I might even take a notebook to try and work out why we are so bloody terrible. I don't think the majority of the players actually give a shyte to be honest and that's what really really annoys the c rap out of me. These guys are ruining the team (in the short and long term) before our very eyes every single week - it is not acceptable at all.

massive issue in my opinion, shows exactly where the clubs culture is at in a nutshell.

I've seen a few posts lately about bringing Lloyd to Melbourne and others about Royal as midfield coach,the development of our mids etc. So let me throw this one out there. We could do a lot worse than pursue Cameron Ling to be our midfield coach next year. When he retired he said he wanted a year away from football and would spend some time in the media before considering his next move. With the respect he holds in the football world for his ability, leadership, work ethic and not to mention he seems to be a pretty decent bloke, he would be a great addition to our coaching structure.

I have been heartily disappointed with our performances to date and other than and because of Round 1, have picked us to lose each week since. But I believe we'll beat Sydney because: Our poor relative fitness level won't be as problematic on the smaller SCG Sydney will be without Goodes who has proven over the years to be unstoppable when we play them Jamar will dominate (and that's whether Mumford plays or not. I admit I don't know why Mumford is out and whether he'll be back, but I don't think it will make a difference) it's not obvious but bit by bit players are starting to understand what is needed and those that don't won't be picked this week (ie, Sylvia) it's not obvious but bit by bit the coaches are starting to understand which players should be playing where. For example, Davey had no gametime on the ball in the first few weeks. He's gradually getting more time there and in so doing getting into the play more. He is still, though, our only reliable disposer by foot of the ball, unfortunately while Ted Richards is an honest trier, he doesn't have the combination of size and mobility to play on Clark McKenzie will tag Josh Kennedy and limit his ability to influence the game. Now, I might be a delusional optimist but early in the week is the right time to make these predictions. It gives everyone an opportunity to start thinking positively. However, as this is Responsible Gambling Awareness Week it is incumbent upon me to recommend that you don't place a bet on Melbourne to win based on my optimism.

We have none of it. From anyone. Media, other supporters and most importantly other afl clubs. Why? Because we haven't earned any. And I hate it. But what I also hate is that we don't seem to give a frick. We need to start earning it by playing hard, tough, accountable footy, and not being out smashed at 4am Sunday morning like a player who shall remain nameless. Or smiling when we've just lost by 8 goals. It's killing me /end rant

Keen for Strauss to get back on the park and firing. He's one - probably the only one - on that list that should really be pushing for a spot in the seniors. Other than Sellar who is difficult to get too enthused about. Even though it has no impact at all on our footy fortunes, I'm really glad to see Williams is back on the radar after his virus of the brain. Can only imagine how horrifically scary that must have been. Still seething about Gysberts' injury.

The only meaningless external appearance I want is the one after a win. Until then they are the worst team in the AFL

We got the right Smith (Norm) but originally wanted to sign Len....phew!!

And you're staying a virgin until Jessica Alba sees the light?

Personally, I love it. The media of late have been talking about MFC as if we'll be ravaged by free agency (AFL 360 especially) and moves like this, whether they come off or not, completely tip that perspective on its head. We're a shark, not a clownfish. Even if it's only a PR move, it's brilliant. Getting Cloke would be even better.

Football is no longer an amateur sport it is a highly competitive commercial enterprise. A large part of modern football is image as every club is struggling to bring in enough new members to enable them to compete. Having players laughing while the brand is being destroyed and supporters are distraught is not the way to encourage future members or to encourage supporters that we are all in it together and hang tough. No one is arguing that players haven't the right to be friends with opposition or to enjoy life and a joke. However when you are in a Melbourne suit in the stands as a high profile Melbourne player you are representing the club and should be careful to act accordingly. The same goes for when you are onfield following a game where you have been slaughtered in a dissapointing season. The MFC is under pressure from every quarter right now and the players need to be careful what attitude they appear to have towards our current plight.. I said earlier that no performance organisation would think this is a good look and I stand by this, we all enjoy a joke and have mates on the other side of the fence, but there is a time and place for that out of the limelight without tarnishing your organisations image. Edit: spelling

We do need another marking target forward. For various reasons Watts, Martin and Sellar aren't it. Howe and Jurrah are 3rd tall options not keys. We would be better off playing Clark mainly forward and relieving Jamar in the ruck. Jamar played 84% game time on Friday - he can ruck 75% of the game and Clark 25% if we have another genuine target. As posted earlier - if the offer drives Cloke's price up and Sidebottom or Beams fall out then - hey!!!

No we need anyone with a heart like Mitch clark i dont care if there mid,forward or back i just want real AFL players

This is the one thing that neeld has done at the club since coming in that i love. He does not care who it is if he want's them he goes and get's them. Travis would love neeld and more then anything Travis would love the money. Well done Neeld keep this up and we might have a team by 2013. Keep cleaning up the scraps that dont want to play for you Mark and try get wellingham while your at it.

The only lightweight, is the idea that this doesn't matter.

Neeld Leigh Brown & Craig will know exactly who to target. "Hi. Can i speak to Eddie please..."

I reckon he'll stay.

Yes i think the Blazers would be quite a good buy on ebay right now...a real Bargain!!!

I am a big believer that Col Sylvia is a midfielder not a pure fowarder. He just doesnt impact the game playing as a forward only, put him in the midfield for the next 3 weeks rest him up forward but 75% of his game time in the middle.

Start winning games And it will all go away, it is that simple

ins: stet martin, Jurrah, Taggert, Watts. outs: Fitzy, Garland, Davey (runs on the spot these days), Bennell.

Seems im wrong , the sky apparently is falling!! well according to many here it is and already the knives are out snd the blame game's in full swing. Have some of you guys got any nerve ? Can you stand the heat of the forge ? The way some here drop their bundle at the slightest sign of hatdship makes me wonder if brown cords ought not be offiial uniform of demons !!!

Was talking with a CEO of a rival club in the past couple of weeks who had a couple of observations which I thought was pertinent to share. The first in th AFL you are never as good as you think you are and importantly you are never as bad as you think you are. The second was that the changes that the Demons were implementing we're more significant than any other of the teams that changed coaches this year. The last based on the above was do not judge Neeld on the first 6 games of the year rather the last 6 games. Take it or leave it but I have a feeling we may have similar finish to the season as Hardwick's Tigers I'd in his first year.

It is not the media who just lost by 11 goals, it is not the media that has lost 9 games in a row, it is not the media that is last on the ladder, it is not the media that has a average loosing margin of 8 goals this season, it is not the media captain who cannot make the distance from 30 meters out from Goal. It is the MFC that gives them tonnes of material. We lead with our chins and then wonder why someones punches us on the chin. Stop blaming the media when the problem lies directly at the feet of the players of the MFC. Start winning and it all stops.

Sure hope none of them were smiling on camera....

The players are being reprogrammed. Some will make it, some won't. Judge Neeld in 18 months, not after 7 games.

I don't care about Scully's giant leaps forward, I just care about him falling backward on the end of Tappy's shoulder. If Scully gets off the ground unassisted when they play us I'll be ashamed of the whole team.

Interesting thoughts but i disagree. I think our on field performace has alot to do with players overthinking the game - spending too much time thinking about where they should run or kick the ball according to Neelds game plan, rather than backing their own ability and lnstincts . I hate the term "game plan", and ever since Need has come in the club has used it to death - i fear that alot of the side have been bamboozled/overwelmed by all of the new structures and plans and have forgot that they are listed at an AFL club becasue they are good footy players - they've lost the confidence in their own instincts and abilities to just get out there and play footy! The extent of the game plan under dean bailey was "take the game on" (as far as i could tell), but maybe it wasnt such a bad mantra for the blokes.

I actually think what Darcy said was quite good. I'd love fot the players to be (or at least seem like they are) hurting as much as us supporters. Maybe if they started paying for the club (like we do) instead of getting paid by the club then they'd be hurting a lot more/as much as us. Heheehe.

It is absolutely an issue worth talking about and I'm staggered at some on here brushing it aside like it's nothing. It is a statement about where the players' heads are at.

It's still a non-issue. The media are whipping it into one because people like yourself lap it up.

I'm not taking sides Macca, but I'm just wondering what supporters think our game-plan is. I was talking to my despairing older Brother earlier today and he's just about had a gutful. He's been as loyal as any supporter over the last 40 years. He'd catch a train down to Kardinia Park as a 14 year old in the 70's by himself when we were sh*t. He'll stay loyal, but his resolve is being tested. He thinks our game-plan must be to grab the ball and kick it 40 metres down the boundary line; and you can't blame him, because that's what we invariably do. But I explained that the long kick down the boundary is our last resort. It's our 'get out of jail' card. Goals in the modern game come from turnovers and it's far easier to defend a turnover if it's close to the boundary. If you turn the ball over near the corridor you're invariably punished. So Neeld's/Malthouse's theory is sound. Get the ball forward, neutralise the next contest and start again. The problem is we're doing it far too often because we're not having nearly enough run, carry, and spread. The players aren't trusting each other. They're not trusting each other to win a 50/50 contest, so in turn they get sucked back into the contest. Have you noticed that we often have more numbers around a stoppage, but the opposition have more positioned outside ? We either win the ball and handball to a teammate under pressure, get a quick kick along the boundary, lose possession, or create another ball-up. When the opposition get hands on it they flick it backwards 10-15 metres, or wide and they're off. And we start chasing tail, while their forward half opens up. We need to stop over committing to stoppages and have our own outriders ready to create and run, but this is hard when you don't have faith in your teammate to win the contest. This is why we are diabolical when it comes to uncontested possessions. Neeld doesn't want to play like this. He wants the players to structure up well and be bold with their run and options. His game-plan is so foreign to Bailey's it's proving to be hard yards. I'm no Neeld apologist and right now he has to carry the can for not being able to get his players to implement the plan well enough. Afterall, he'll be happy to take the plaudits if they come his way, so he can't complain about the brick bats now. Everyone is accountable. The reason I'm not as gloomy as some is that I know the talent on the list isn't as dire as it appears. I hate the saying that a team is "playing above themselves" as physics tells me it's not possible, but I understand that some teams seem to eke out just about every ounce of their ability. However, those teams usually fail to win the holy grail. They're usually found wanting when it matters most and their lack of class catches up with them. Conversely, we're playing well beneath our true potential, which is why my wrists remain scar free. I still have faith in the quality of the list. I expect to see improvement and don't want any spin, because I feel I understand where we're at. But Neeld has to sell his message to the players and on the surface they're not buying in. Morale is low, especially amongst the older players, but with more understanding of what's required I do expect things to get better.

I cast my mind back to the early to mid ‘80’s. The push was on to get our favourite son, Ronald Dale Barassi back home where he belonged. He was to be the Messiah. Clearly a successful coach, with an uncompromising philosophy. His previous coaching stints were at clubs where a great deal of work had been done to instill a winning culture. He came from a club which made him, largely, into the man he became. He came from a culture that the great Norm Smith engendered into a club with a long and proud history. Simply, anything less than 100% commitment was not acceptable. History now records that the prodigal son’s 5 year plan, at least on the face of it, was anything but successful. Some so-called sage commentators at the time, viewed Barasssi’s tenure as coach of the MFC as nothing more than an unmitigated disaster. Under his stewardship and football department, he brought in Kelvin Templeton, who was passed his prime. Anecdotally, it has been said that when Templeton knew the Dees were having a crack at him, he told the Scraggers, get what you can for me, because my knees are shot. We also had Peter Moore, who was a class act and won a Brownlow while playing in the Red and Blue. He was a beacon in what appeared to be a sea of playing mediocrity. Often a one man show, Moore’s ability and class simply was not complemented by what seemed to be a bunch of inept tyros. Nevertheless, Barassi was bold and was prepared to throw anything and everything at his ill-fated ‘5 year plan’ – ill-fated so it seemed. He and his team (Barry Richardson in particular) were the pioneers of the ‘Irish experiment’. Despite that, a pale, skinny bean pole of a kid was banished by Slug Jordan and he was sent to play reserves football with Prahran. We all no know what became of that story – legendary!!!!!!. Under Barassi, the MFC would again suffer the ignominy of multiple wooden spoons. Of course, in those days we had the under 19’s, which, along with the reserves, was to enjoy a modicum of success. At the end of Barassi’s reign at Melbourne, it would seem his attempts to resurrect the Club were an abysmal failure. Then along came John Northey. Swooper was uncompromising. A hard taskmaster who believed in the tenets of playing for the jumper, for your mates and would instill an ‘us against them’ mentality. His first year seemed to continue the mediocrity we endured under the Messiah. A bunch of no name kids were brought into to the team and it would seem we would continue to endure failure, as we had done for so long. But Northey would transform this bunch of kids into a unit which fought every inch. Tooth and nail, they would graft wins. The football world at first saw this as an aberration, but for the first time, we, as supporters could puff out our chests and take pride in our footy team. Who can forget that day at Western Oval in 1987. My fondest memory is of the last training session before the 1988 Grand Final at the Junction Oval. A sea of red and blue. Thousands of supporters all with the same mantra. The late Stuart Spencer; our President addressing the assembled faithful. I was in football heaven, even though a few days later, we were flogged by what was then a record Grand Final winning margin. Still, it was bloody worth it. As much as I love Swooper, what became evident was that RDB did indeed a leave his mark as coach. Despite the lack of success during his days as mentor and teacher, he left a culture which would endure for over a decade. Barassi managed to bring together a bunch of kids, who although unheralded at the time, would be come favourite sons of the MFC. Barassi did leave a legacy. Of course, footy has changed and evolved remarkably since those heady days, but history still has a habit of repeating itself. Maybe, just maybe, there is some real method in Mark Neeld’s perceived ‘madness’. Maybe, just like Ronald Dale, he will put a significant imprint on this bunch, which will be sustainable well into the future. I bloody hope so. In the meantime, stay proud and strong Dees supporters. There are a few blokes who spilt their own blood for the red and the blue, who are no longer with us, and we at least owe that to them. Go Dees

Once again I have to look at the statistics since nobody has yet come up with an accurate measurement for pea-heartedness. Nic Nat - Games 60, avg disposals 12, av marks 1.7, av goals 0.6, av tackles 3.6, av hitouts 18.3, disposal efficiency 67.1% J. Watts - Games 45, avg disposals 14.3, av marks 5.1, av goals 0.8, av tackles 1.7, av hitouts 0.4, disposal efficiency 74.4% So, Watts has played 75% of the games, is the best part of a full year younger, has more disposals, marks and goals per game but fewer tackles and hitouts. Given that he doesn't actually play in the ruck it's not unexpected that he should fare so poorly in the hitout stats. To summarise, Watts is younger, has played less games, gets more of the ball and does more with it. Yet he is still considered the lesser of the two players and consistently hammered by the media and supporters for a perception that he lacks "heart." Edit: Stats courtesy of http://www.footywire.com/ (except for disposal efficiency, which came from www.afl.com.au)

Couldn't agree more! The last 2 GFs we've been in we shouldn't have - that's why we got pantsed in both. Under Bailey we were heading that way again. This is real distruptive stuff going on right now for the club. If we don't "do something" in the immortal words of the sage in the raincoat from Hawthorn, it will be more of "we were good 2000-5". Did we win a flag in those years ? No we didn't! Another round of that would be much easier to do than what's going on now. But, it would be just another nail in the coffin. As for changing coaches to another untried and in the case of this thread's subject Matthew Lloyd would add even more to our demise. Mark Neeld, and those around him are professional coaches. This is not kick to kick - this is football. This is a gutsy group of people prepared to back themselves to change the culture. They know what they are doing. They know what they want. It's not just do win enough games to make us think "next year"... It's not just to get to play a final and go down in a screaming heap without winning the ultimate prize! This is an exciting ride. Not since the glory days of the 50s have we had a chance to live dangerously. Who knows, we might even win a flag!!! Stop this rubbish about changing coaches and see the big picture. Go Dees

There is a real danger we are going to end up with a bunch of kids with no bigger mature players to provide protection. Having said that would we be any worse off than we are now? Neither of them are winning us games or in fact doing anything to protect their younger team mates. Therefore we may as well see what we can get for Sylvia. With Beamer I think we should offer what is fair but if he craves success more than playing his heart out in red and blue he should follow his own advice and head off down the road to Carlton. It will be his choice with FA not ours.

Moloney had a half-decent first quarter which flattered the stat sheet. Totally went missing from then on when the heat went up. As is his want. Jason Dunstall gave Sylvia (3) Davey (2) and Moloney (1) Triple M's "worst on ground" votes, to which Garry Lyon replied something like "no argument from me Chief". The three worst players in a pool of 44 who laced up boots for the game. Not to mention, aside from Mitch Clark, the three highest paid players at the Melbourne Football Club. Sylvia should do the honourable thing and bank transfer his match payments to Magner, a player with half the ability but five times the heart.

We're talking about Chance Bateman right? He'll be lucky to be offered another contract I would have thought, and doesn't seem to fit with our needs at all, we've already got a struggling ageing former goal sneak.