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Cons Unless you've trained as a ruckman before, your chances of doing a serious injury are very high. Watts is no ruckman, never was, never will be. Why waste his development learning a very specific craft he'll never use long term? Kthanxby.

Clark was a forward as a junior. He couldn't fit into Brisbanes forward line with Brown and Bradshaw but he was so good they wanted him out there so they played him in the ruck. Last year he was played forward only because Brown was injured, he kicked 27 goals when he probably didn't really understand the team leading patterns due to training with the rucks all pre-season. This year he came to us, and solely worked on being a forward and kicked 10 goals in 4 games, straightened up our whole side and gave us a hard edge in the forward line. People want to move him???? He had one good year as a ruckman (where he was not better than Jamar in his AA year) then the rest of his career he was a very skilled player who was never really given ownership of a position. He is a forward!! Always was, it's Brisbane that took him out of his comfort zone not us, the fact he did well is a testament to Mitch as a footballer, not as a ruckman.

I am honestly perplexed by the trenchant criticisms of Jack Watts by a handful of posters on Demonland. To be clear I am not a Jack Watts apologist nor do i see him through rose coloured glasses. I consider myself to be pretty objective when it comes to rating Melbourne players, have seen alot of them and I rate Watts highly. I understand the query about his hardness at the ball etc. I had the same concerns (and voiced them on Demonland) before the start of the 2011 season. To summarise those comments, in my opinion, he had to show increased intensity. Which in my mind, having watched him closely all season, he did. This view was largely shared on Demonalnd IIRC and most posters here would also have been watching closely. The issue of his supposed lack of hardness seems to me to overly colour the view of Jack, in the same way that the occasional flashes of athletic brilliance overly colours the opinions of many about Natanui (top 50 in the league - give me a break). Yes there are times he could be more physical with his attack at the ball but look, at this stage that is not his go - and perhaps never will be. That said his intensity improved last year and was acceptable and likewise has been ok this season. Clearly Neeld agrees or else he would have dropped him. Neeld made it perfectly clear when he started (and multiple times since) no one would get picked on reputation, that he was starting with a clean sheet, there would be no passengers and furthermore specifically publicly put Watts on notice. Does anyone seriously believe he would compromise himself with his players (who of course know better than anyone who is putting in and who isn't) or risk losing their respect and pick Watts when it wasn't warranted? Watch the snippet of his first speech before answering. So if we assume the answer is no, his continued selection is evidence that in regard to intensity (and his general performance level for that matter) he has satisfied Neeld and the FD, who are both well paid and well placed to make that assessment. That's good enough for me. So what about the other facets of his game. He is by far the best user of the footy in the team - by far, as evidenced by his disposal efficiency statistics. As we all have seen this is absolutely crucial in footy generally but even more so in a team of disposal spuds. He almost always takes the right option. He kicks equally well of both feet, indeed he is a better left foot kick than almost every other player in the team is on their natural foot in terms of not missing targets. He is clean with his hands, amazing below his knees and quick (for any size). The deft touches he so often does (clearly influenced by his basketball background) are creative and bring other players into the game. On that point i reckon these taps on and flicks etc sometimes unfairly give the impression he's not going hard at it, but they can be devastating. He is unselfish and has incredibly quick hands - as an example watch the bit of play in the 3rd quarter last week (AFL video on Bigpond) where he gives off to Davey putting him in space (who then gives it to Beamer who gets hungry, doesn't give the easy ball over to Dunn who was completely free and misses a sitter - Watts would have almost certainly got it to Dunn). He is a team player and looks to bring others into the game, as evidenced by his goal assist stats (a stat coaches apparently put alot of store in) I say all of the above because as i say i reckon many in the media and some on this site are not objective enough about him. There is way too much discussion (and has been throughout his brief career) about being number a 1 draft pick. Its a totally moot point now and again distract from objectively assessing him. Facts are he finished 9th in the Bluey last year and apart from last week has been amongst our best this year and has consistently put in Is he star at the moment - no. Will he be? I am very confident he will be but understand why others may not. Could he be more physical? Of course, it is one of the weakness in his game. But watching him again on the replay you realise how skinny he still is (this is not an excuse by the way just a fact) and that he probably won't fill into his body until he is 23 or 24. When he does there is no doubt, even if he isn't as aggressive at the ball as say Hurley, he will be much, much stronger and will impose himself more through that strength. In the mean time the dees desperately need his skill and ability to create. Realistically he and Jurrah (and perhaps Frawley, apologies to Trennners) are currently the only players in the line-up who have the potential to be legitimate top shelf, A graders. Neeld has got him early enough and if he is as good a developer of players as his reputation suggest he is then Watts will fulfil that potential (and i'm sure be taught to be more direct in his attack, something another 5 kgs of muscle will help no end)

WTF

Go all out to get him, regardless of what other clubs offer. Just like we did for Mitch Clark - if the coach needs to go and sleep in some dodgy motel - just go and make a play for him. We need his pace. We need his skill when at pace. We need his hunger for the ball. We need his exctiement factor. A potential game breaker and match winner who is in the mould of Coliln Sylvia but not so flighty or inconsistent.

Patrick Smith is a waste of space. I never read his articles. Sensationalist drivel. Mind you David King is the current title holder for most inane criticism of the club/coach. King never has anything positive to say about Melbourne but he outdid himself when he criticised Neeld for his "phone manner" in the box, in reference to vision shown of him barking instructions during the Saints game. At first I thought he was kidding but no, dead serious. He was criticising a coach for getting emotionally involved. The man can do no right at the moment in the eyes of some idiots in the media, King being one of the biggest going around.

http://www.heraldsun...f-1226345204658 This is the guy we should make a serious play for with our compo pick/2012 draft position clout. 22yo, out of contract and just beginning to hit his straps. Hard at it, quick and classy. Likes a goal. HUN article reports that Geelong and the Bombers are circling as well. Would be a real coup of Neeld/Craig could land him. If we could effectively replace Scully with Dangerfield, that's a win in my book. We need a ready made midfield gun now, not two more high draft picks we have to put years of development into.

Mark Neeld and the coaching group are in the best position to assess the performance of the talent on our list and to make decisions in relation to thier development. I am glad to be rid of the "get games into young players at all costs" mantra and support creating a minimum standard that every player must adhere to. Only then can we trust that when we buy our memberships and go and watch our boys that they will be consistently "competitive" so that the phrase isn't a hollow ambition but something that can be applied here and now. Support this bloke, he knows what he is doing.

Let's just nail Jack Watts to a cross and let him bleed to death. I just cannot believe the stick this kid gets. Next in line Jack Viney. If he doesn't become a super star within two weeks of his first game he can join Jack W on Calvary.

Can we ban this guy? Obvious troll.

I still don't see this model as a 'fairer' fixture. The ideal is to play 34 games and play everyone home and away. This one would still have teams playing some teams once and others twice and personally I really don't care about this stuff. What they should fix is the share of Friday night and Saturday night games, public holiday games, etc. I would happily lose the QB game if we played the Anzac day game once every 10 years and all teams had 5 or 6 night games each a season.

Melbourne currently has everything to get this deal done. Neil Craig (ex coach), Draft picks, room in the salary cap...we need this type of player.

I'd be all over him like a fat kid on a chip. In a totally professional way. A ready made potential star, and a goal-kicking midfielder. YES PLEASE!!!

...and Trenners could give him a big welcoming tackle at our first practice match :-)

would have thought the fact he is clearly already our best forward, and we have arguably the 3rd best ruckman in the league would make this thread redundant... of course, should Jamar be attracted elsewhere through free agency, who knows? but on our current situation, ridiculous thread.

I say we win the next 17 matches or so, finish top 3 and use a pick in the late 20's to snare him... bargain!

I think his biggest problem is inconsistency - he fails to put in for 4 quarters. Too many times he'll have a good first quarter or half, then disappear from the match. He often seems to pull this disappearing act during clutch quarters, such as the 3rd against Richmond. He is not doing enough at the moment to justify a regular place in the side. This year they have tried him up forward, at the bounce, on the wing, and as a spare man in defence. He needs to go to Casey and get his hands on the ball (at least 20 possessions per game) and build up his confidence. I hope he can do this; i'm just not sure if he can develop into the sort of player Neeld wants.

I don't always write to Demonland, but was having a cup of coffee today at my local cafe and happened to read Greg Denhams article in the Australian. I nearly choked........ The article is basically a total denegration of Melbourne, its players and how things have been managed over the past few years. As a loyal supporter of this club for over 40 years I do get sick of football journo's waking up one day with nothing to write about and decide it must be time to 'kick' the Dees again. Let's face it, the team is not in the place that we would like it to be, but I am getting a good feeling about the future. I think Mark is 'building the house', laying a solid foundation, selecting players who are prepared to dig in and give their best every week. Sylvia, Jurrah, Green will add strength, depth and flair. It looks like we have found a couple of good players in Tom Mac and Mitsubishi and I for one am prepared to give 2012 to building onto the foundation. Mark has drawn the line in the sand and we will see who can hack it, follow our new structures and develop the consistent effort we all crave. This week at Geelong I hope to see everything thrown at the opposition, courage under fire and a desire to win the hard ball. You just never know what we are capable of. I think we will build respect over the coming weeks, if not victories. Some commentators, including this idiot from the Australian believe we have gone backwards, I think we have restarted, with a desire to be good not just for a week or two, but for the decade ahead. Could be proven wrong and even if we were 0-11, still think we can win 8 or more games this year. Of course it would be sensational to win any of the games over the next 6 weeks. Just love to shove some stuff to these Journos who know nothing of what Melbourne is trying to do, know nothing about what is going on behind the scenes and just want a headline.Greg Denham could well read some of Matt Burgan's stuff to find out that you can actually write a good story based on real information and facts. Premiers 13

Neeld has made it pretty clear the level and intencity he expects our boys to play at. Whether your name is Jack Watts, or Joe Blogs, if you're not laying a single tackle in a wet match, don't expect to play next week. More than fair IMO. But gee jack was frustrating to watch last week.

I feel for you, Oli. It's like beating your head against a brick wall on this issue with some posters. A few points that seem to be missed by a few here ... 1. Yes, of course, we definitely intend on drafting Viney, but we will not draft him under any and all circumstances. There are certain extreme circumstances where we might opt out, because it would be plain unprofessional not to. Imagine this scenario (yes, this a hypothetical, of course). He develops chronic OP, has a major debiltating injury or personal problems, has a serious personality clash with key members of the club, and drops substantially in perceived value. We have pick 3 (and 4) in the draft, and there are two clear standouts who are judged by all smart draft watchers to be heads and shoulders above everyone else. GWS state they are prepared to take Viney at pick 1 (to try and shaft us). What do we do? We have the chance to take one of the two standout future stars, plus the third, in a superdraft. Alternatively, we can take Viney (now valued as too risky for first round, maybe 20 at best) and the third best player who is daylight behind the first two. It's a substantial difference in benefit, and the club must seriously consider going with the former option. OK, I concede that this is unlikely to transpire, but it is possible. And if you concede that it could happen, and that Melbourne could opt to drop Viney (maybe with a view to get him back to the club in two years) for the chance to pick up a superdraft star and another guaranteed player, then you must concede that there is a continuum along which all the potential circumstances of the upcoming draft lie, and at some point along that continuum, the club could drop their plan to draft JV, because not to do so would be unprofessional. When the benefit to the club of the two standout picks so substantially outweighs the benefit of getting JV, then a professional club management will take the option that is the greater benefit for the club. 2. In any scenario in which JV is not rated by the clubs as a top 2 or 3 pick, there is a substantial risk to be taken by the club with pick 1 or 2 in nominating him. To say anything else, is pure folly. They are taking the risk, no matter how small it is perceived to be, that they could lose their option on their preferred number 1 or 2 pick, should we opt out of taking JV. The greater the disparancy between JV's perceived value and their pick, the greater the risk. For example, in the above hypothetical, the team with the number one pick, is basically risking their prime pick in a superdraft, for a player valued 20 at best. Again, this is an extreme example, but there is a continuum along which the actual circumstances will fall, and at some point along this, the risk will be too great for that club to nominate. 3. Point 1 and 2 don't seem like brain surgery to me. But if you can't concede this two points, then we're obviously on a different planet, and I wouldn't bother reading further. Let's just agree to disagree. Anyway ... 4. Given point 1 and 2, the actions of the club should (and I think, will) obviously be dictated by which point along those two continua the circumstance lie at the end of the season. I believe that this is why we aren't hearing from the club publically on this issue. There have now been several articles in the press insinuating that we will take Viney with our first pick, no matter what. The club has not come out to confirm this, as they are waiting to see what happens. There is no advantage to them saying anything, so they aren't. Once the dust has settled on the season, I believe that you'll see them act in one of two ways. i. If the circumstances fall so that picking Viney with our first round pick is good value for us, and that the risk for the teams higher than us in the draft order in nominating him is low, we'll back JV all the way, publically stating how in love with him we are and how good he is going to be. ii. if they fall so that our first round for JV is very poor value, and the risk of the other teams is higher, then we will start using the media and gossip channels to create doubt about what we are going to do. We'll take a tough stance and say that we are not prepared to be dictated to by other teams. We'll ask the AFL to put pressure on the other teams not to 'dishonour' the F/S system, and the draft system generally. The Viney camp will spread rumours about his unwillingness to move to Sydney or GC. Etc etc. 5. Should ii. take place, all we would need to do is create enough doubt in the minds of the teams higher than us in the draft order so that they think there is a miniscule chance that they could lose their prime pick and be forced to take a lower valued JV, who doesn't want to come to their club. If these clubs want to act professionally, they will then back away from nominating him.

Watts lacked intensity last week, disappointing that he is out but it is the right call.

Not if he has the same attitude to being dropped that he does to losing ..

Correct decision

Watts dropped for the best. This will be good for him. It'll sting.

I like it....You dont perform ..youre out!

N0-one predicted Geelong's rise in 2007. Just as they won't be picking the Dees rise. Denham is a scumbag that is actually one rung below Patrick Smith. No-one buys the Australian so they try to make up for it by being controversial. Big deal.

Thats true and who knows we could just win the next 10 games. Dont like the chances but would be great and i think Neeld will turn a corner quicker then some think. Mark neeld is going to be a legend of the red and blue one day. Lets get behind Mark and the club because after all we all share one thing in common we love the MFC. I sometime's say silly things after games but im sure we will make it under Mark neelds watch. I cant wait to see viney jnr dont worry what pick we use on him it's that talk of tanking and not winning that got us a dud by the name of scully lets get a winning culture and never quit attitude the rest will fall into place. The first 4 weeks have been hard but after i saw the saints game i now see we are building a team that will win more and never be called soft again. That is what we all want a team thats strong and never ever quits. GO YOU MIGHTY DEMONS

Ok, now you have just taking a trip well past the point that McLardy was attempting to make. It's not a great point he was making but the general theme of the 'Geelong 2006 to 2007' meme is not the years of dominance but the change in fortune from promising, to pathetic, to performers. McLardy was trying to say that our path isn't linear - similar to Geelong and that faith should remain. And while a dominant force like Geelong doesn't come around often - the trials they endured before they achieved the flag in 2007 is a common refrain with the best teams of any sport - the rise of success isn't linear.

I think Dr Fraud's time on planet Demonland is drawing to a close Maybe he should take his defective non-commissioned Tardis (very non-circa 2012) to Big Footy where he can proselytize to the kiddies

If there is even a wiff that he would look at coming back to Victoria then we must have a serious crack. As an aside, does anyone else see the irony in Dr Who having a crack at our 'old culture' whilst adopting a pseudynom form a 1960's BBC sci-fi character. What a hip cat! Tells me he is a troll, just not a clever one.

LOL What is this? (Could've saved time with "I believe the children are our future.")

That it would be awesomely delicisious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People should just accept that we're using our first round pick on Viney. No matter what number that is. If you look at it like that, then you can see that the lower we finish, we get the advantage that our compensation pick after our first round pick improves. So if we finished top 8, yes, we'd be getting viney for pick 13ish (a steal), BUT, our compensation picks would be 12 and 14. Whereas if we finish bottom 3, then we'd get viney, but our compensation picks will be pick 4 and 12.

Still Waiting, Far from apponting myself as anything of the sort. I simply took offence at your tone and choice of language when disagreeing with other posters. I'm more than happy to agree with you on the points where we concur, however, I think you need to avoid the stereotyping and wild generalisations. You know nothing about me and how I live my life or what I've achieved. It's possible to speak your mind without being offensive and derogatory. Your language comes across as antagonistic and bullying. It's as if you think if you speak more aggressively than everybody else it will make you right. Not necessarily so my friend.

You win it for the most BOGs

I hate Americanisms also but if you hate it so much, why did you spell Americanise with a "z"? Language is never static and changes all the time. We are at a high point of American language influence that began post WW2, and you just watch Chinese language nuances start to meld in with English now that China is fast becoming the most influential nation in the world, especially in terms of finance. We could use regions, zones, divisions... whatever word you like, but I reckon the bacis idea is right on the money. One of the AFL's main focus is on the finances within the game to support and grow it so they are not looking for a fair draw or a level playing field. They are looking for exposure and the $ that comes from it. The idea has merit and should at the very least be explored.

We have got a massive investment we are trying to get a return on. Let's throw him somewhere where he will get cut in half! No dice. And no to Clark either. Jamar, Martin, and Sellar can do the plodder's work in the ruck.

Just read this post again and I think the above line should be bolded, italics-ed and underlined. Sums up the idea completely for me.

Still waiting on him to "explode" as has been predicted since his first year. I certainly would not be paying over the top on him.

Payback for Scott Thompson

I think that we as club should harden up and take a stance like Eddy McGuire would here. We should be threatening GWS or GCS through the media for major retribution if they even consider to name him first up given that they have never spoken to him let alone offered him something realistic then. Simply they are playing games and are insincere. If so, watch out for raids by MFC when free agency opens and other hostile trading in the future. Make our policy be known. Lets get mad and fire up about this ffs!! He aint a #1 or #2 pick so why should we be paying above market price?? We should as a club, make our stand very clear, that we will not stand for this!! Lets not let the 2 weakest clubs dictate terms to us ffs. How weak are we?

Ricky came into the WC game underdone as Tap has over the last couple and Silvia did last week, they've struggled. The bye at Casey in between the last 2 games hasn't helped him either. If he gets a clear injury free run for the rest of the season I think he will find a place in the side and we might get to see the best of him. His career has been too stop start to date, I wouldn't be writing him off just yet.

July 30th, 2011. We journeyed down to Kardinia Park to take on the GFC in the middle of winter with a team which had shown some signs of promise. We seemed to be developing as a team which was headed in the right direction, regardless of the inconsistency from week to week. We turned up at Kardinia Park feeling as though we didn't really want to be there, as we didn't believe we could win. I felt that the match was something which we needed to survive through and then move on to next week. This attitude and a ruthless GFC team saw us torn to shreds, not only on the scoreboard but the loss ripped the fabric of the club apart and took a part of our dignity. As we all know, Dean Bailey was sacked as the club tried to deal with it, but in reality we haven't been the same club since and we haven't fully gotten over it. There's been an painful darkness lurking in the corners of our collective MFC psyche since that day. There is only one way that the club can deal with what happened on that day last year, and sacking Dean Bailey or any other off field measures are completely insufficient. We need to go back to Kardinia Park and retrieve our dignity. It wont come easily, but must be torn back from Geelong, we must fight to take it back, and we must win to take it back. We must be ruthless in attacking every contest with absolute and brutal desperation. We must gut run from start to finish. We must treat every goal not with joyous celebration but with a sober resolve to bounce the ball and do it again. We need to punish Geelong every time they make a mistake or hesitate. This weekend is our opportunity to cast out the darkness, and we need to approach it head on, without compromise or excuse. Let's go to Kardinia Park, and let's fight to win our dignity back. Let's go to Kardinia Park together.

Keep him at full forward. We on this forum and the club have been crying out for a pack-crashing, bag kicking forward, and we finally have him. Let Jamar, Martin and eventually Gawn handle the ruck duties.

Denham is no sports guru. He fancies himself and a commmentator-at-large. His only real claim to fame is he uses oxygen !!

Is the Australian Sports section relevant? I would have thought Greg Genham and Patrick Smith were the two most irrelevant sports journo's in Australia.

As Gimli would say ""certainty of death, small chance of success... what are we waiting for?" Couldn't be worse that last year, and if we do snag a win it would be monumental.

If players could pick themselves... Jai Sheahan shows how it should be done in this tweet: "Back at the old stomping ground this week. Time for a debut to remember. Come on Neeldy u know u want to!!"

Remember Bomber Thompson new First time coach 1999-2000, too him 8 yrs to win a flag Almost lost his Job in 2007, the rest is history Cleaned the list out Changed the culture...remember handbags etc Neeld is expected to change all this within 6 months! Give the guy a break!