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Can everyone ease up on Watts. He is far from a dud pick despite what the NikNat loving media would have you believe.

It's amazing so many 'respected' and 'seasoned' assistant coaches from other clubs are infatuated with us... And why is Niall comparing us to WCE? Because of the Watts and NikNat draft? If you gave us Embley, Cox, Kerr, Glass, Lynch, Priddis, and LeCras as senior players - we would be far better than we are now. Their resurgence has very little to do with NikNat and Shuey... So I don't see it as relevant at all. Another crap addition to The Troubling Case of the Recruitment of Jack Watts © dossier...

Melbourne Football Club Melbourne Victory Melbourne Rebels Melbourne Vixens Bendigo Gold AGL Red Energy TruEnergy Momentum Energy 3AW The Age Did they all fail in their due diligence on Energy Watch, or was it just Cam Schwab?

It's interesting. But we are already starting to see teams beating the press. We saw what happened when we tried to chase after the prevailing trend - we went for big butts because of Brisbane in the early 2000s, but then the game started going uncontested and we were stuffed! Very few of those players are still around. The aim is to look at players and select those which are adaptable - those that will have a role to play in any side. These players need to be able to run, win the footy and use it well. Watts will be a top class in any era. He can run, win the footy, great size and exquisite user of the ball. Will he end up as a power forward or as a midfielder? It doesn't really matter because he'll be a star in either role as he gets bigger and his endurance improves. Everyone is enamoured with Buddy as a big power forward, but really he can't mark the footy unless he's one on one - yet this is some sort of deal breaker for Watts? Blease has done one preseason since he was about 15 or 16 and has improved his running ability enormously this year. But he still needs plenty of time to get this up to standard. His aerobic base is so low that he would be struggling to breathe at times last year after playing a few minutes as a loose man in defence for the Casey reserves! He's a player who needs time, because he will be the sort of player that good teams need to break the play open (in any game style). Speed athletes need time to improve their aerobic capacity to AFL standard, like we have seen with Dale Thomas, Colin Sylvia, Aaron Davey, Brett Deledio, Trent Cotchin. Chris Yarran etc. Blease's injuries haven't let him do that yet. Bennell has heaps of talent, but doesn't win enough of the ball. At the same age Aaron Davey, another speed athlete, couldn't even get on an AFL list! He has shown glimpses of real quality, but just isn't doing it enough. That is something that often comes with maturity and confidence. Teams are already starting to beat the press. What's the next phase? Hawthorn kick through it, while other teams are running through it. Teams are trying to move the ball really quickly, and that requires players that run quickly and kick with penetration. We have those players, but these are the players that take longer to develop. It's very fashionable now to kick our list after some losses while they are adapting to a new defensive game. However these players are there, but will take some more time. They also need some quality around them to make their qualities more valuable.

I agree with this, we looking at our top 25 picks from the since 2007 we just haven't seen them reach their potential that they showed as juniors. The big issue over the past 3 years is keeping them fit, Morton, Grimes, Blease, Strauss, Gysberts, Tapscott and Cook have all had extended periods of injury. Tapscott, Grimes, Strauss and Gysberts in particluar just can't stay fit and it seems for the last 3 pre-season Morton gets injured in Feb/March. All we have heard for the past 5 years is getting games into players giving them the experience, we just haven't been able to keep them fit. It would be interesting to know how many games these guys have played all in the same team over the past 2 years Morton, Grimes, Watts, Strauss, Blease, Trengove, Gysbert and Tapscott, I reckon the answer will be none, not 1 game where our top picks have all played in the same team, this is the issue these guys have been on our list 3-5 years.

Since the departure of Ottens, Geelong don't have one player on their list that has come from another club. Like Ottens, hopefully Clark can become a vital cog in our ascendency up the ladder, but, in the main, I'd rather grow our own. Dangerfield has a ton of talent, but he's yet to show he'll be a quality mid. He doesn't pick up cheap uncontested possessions and doesn't play like a natural midfielder. This is his fifth year, so I'll watch with interest. Like RPFC, I believe it's your senior core that determines the quality of your side, as well as greatly influencing the output of inexperienced players, which is the reason Geelong's 8 players with less than 30 games on Monday weren't overly exposed. Those same 8 players would have a torrid time in our current side - unless your completely defeatist by players wearing red and blue and assume we always draft poorly. Your senior group, which is usually your leadership group, determines the culture at a club, so it's far easier for rookie players to be absorbed into the structures and systems without the issues we're facing. Unlike one of the more hysterical posters on here, I do rate the value of early draft picks. I believe we do have the programs in place now to develop them, not withstanding the impediment of a dearth of quality senior players showing the way. How our team needs a Selwood, Bartel, Judd, or Luke Hodge; players that stand up when the team needs it, such as Garry Lyon going into the middle many years ago when a game was in the balance. But that will come. I'm in the camp of drafting the two very best mids possible in this draft and in all liklihood they'll be top 10 draft picks. They'll be able to walk into the club with Viney and, along with Trengove, have the opportunity to be a dominant force in 4-5 years time. Unfortunately, patience isn't a virtue for diehard Demon supporters, it's now a prerequisite, because it may take a few years to play finals, but when we get there there's every chance we'll be on the verge of real success. Given a choice of another 3 years without finals, but having a genuine chance next time we're there (rather than just making up the numbers) sates my appetite. Others may think it's wishful thinking and that there are no guarantees we'll be any good taking the long-term drafting approach, which, on the surface, seems to have already failed us, and I recognise that, but for me it still gives us the best shot - and I'm not as deflated with the youth on our list as some. Being selfish, I may only have one shot left at seeing a flag, because in theory a side should win one only every 18 years and we know that's not a given, if we miss a turn I may not be around, so I'll take a bit more pain in the process if it helps long-term. Geelong's amazing success was built on the quality they were able to glean from the 1999 and 2001 drafts. And yes, some amazing Father/Sons. If this draft is all it's cracked up to be (best ever) we'll get 3 gun mids walking through the door in 6 months time and the way kids come through the TAC system these days you won't have to wait long for an impact. Rather than all the heat being on Viney to suddenly propel our midfield there'll be 3 of them sharing the burden, plus Trengove. That excites me.

Interesting article. If what he's saying is true, then it's lucky we got a refund for the light-bodied Tom Scully.

It's not recruiting since 2007 that is an issue with any "change in the game". It's the core 25+ year-old players. Compare players born in 1987 or earlier (i.e. aged 25 or older after this year) Hawthorn Bateman, Guerra, Mitchell, Osborne, Burgoyne, Hodge, Sewell, Roughead, Gibson, Franklin Geelong Scarlett, Podsiadly, Enright, Chapman, Corey, Hunt, Johnson, Bartel, Kelly, Lonergan, Mackie, Stokes, Taylor Melbourne Green, Davey, Jamar, Moloney, Macdonald, Rivers, Sylvia, Martin, Dunn, Bate, Clark There's a huge difference in quality and/or experience.

Played in 4 of the 5 Grand Finals Won 3 flags Lost a champion in Ablett Champion Premiership players retired, Ling etc But yet their hunger continues to win games against a great team like the Hawks Sure they have great skills, but the words DESIRE, LEADERSHIP,WORK for EACH OTHER & CULTURE Lets not forget some 6-8 yrs ago most of their list were not going anywhere, handbags etc Lets get behind Neeld & his team to support him as this will take time as seen with the cats

Ok, so: Cameron Bruce - didn't put his head over the ball or set a good example. Often sold his teammates into all sorts of trouble. A product of the very culture we are trying to rid from our club, in my opinion. I think Morton tried to model his game on Bruce (probably under instruction) which has done him a great disservice. Barely getting a game at Hawthorn. James McDonald - was shot because of injury in the last 3rd of the season, whilst we all had a prescient reminder being played out right infront of us as Brad Johnson limped his way around the field in a vain attempt to win a flag, hurting the dogs chances in the process. We also wouldn't have been able to draft Tom McDonald. Played 1 game so far, after a year off to essentially rest his body, as an on-field coach/babysitter. If he plays out the whole season, and well, I might see things slightly differently, but there is a long way to go before that. Russell Robertson - didn't chase, didn't tackle. Was happy to watch his opponent run the ball out of the backline as he sat on his backside. In spite of his tremendous skill, he played for himself, not his teammates. Brad Miller - sometimes getting a game as 20th best player in the role of 3rd tall forward for a team no better off than MFC. We need more than an honest trier who achieved very little to show the kids the way. Not far from being out of the AFL, as he has been an upgraded rookie that last couple of years.

Here's your quote exactly:

Sadly i have to agree RobbieF. If Polis had already bounced 4-5 previous companies leaving staff high & dry then it is fair to say that this will always be his mode of business.Who is to blame for this fiasco i am not privvy to, but if the deal was done because the offer was just "too good to refuse" then it is shameful. That dodgy style of business invades the internet and newspaper classifieds every day. The only person who makes anything is the man at the top. So i am genuinely suprised the MFC got paid at all.

Keep your heads up! The MFC has had a terrible start to the season but it is no time too part ways or become bewildered. It's Round 2 for flop sake! I understand the frustration but we need to stick thick! We will win games. Be realistic with our expectations. We will get sponsorship, etc. But only if we stick thick! It will turn around and I know I will be there too see it. You should too! The last thing the MFC needs is low crowd numbers. It will come together if we all stick together!!!

Maybe they just needed to employ someone that would get off his ass and check to make sure the money on the table was real or fake. In this case it would have saved us a huge amount of embarrassment if they had; so perhaps a Masters Degree in just doing your job properly would have been enough.

Hmmm... let's change that to: "Melbourne Football Club - I don't really see the point in using these guys in the argument. If I ran a football club, and had a company come to me and say "You promote my products and I'll give you $500,000 every three months, and all you need to do is give me advertising on your jumper, publications and website", I couldn't care less what the financial background of said company is like." Why does a different set of principles and ethics apply to MFC as opposed to the others?

And the only reasoning she gives for believing Mifsud over Davey is: "he would not have been supported - as he clearly has been - by the AFL Players Association CEO Matt Finnis, who defended him again yesterday." That is specious reasoning. The AFL or Finnis don't know what Davey said in that meeting, it isn't reason enough to doubt Davey's word. So this is over? Yeah, but with a giant 'F... You' from the AFL to Aaron Davey. It's a good thing for them Aaron is in terrible form, otherwise we might give a sh!t.

In the past five and a bit decades of following the Dees, my character has been deconstructed and reconstructed so many times I'm starting to feel like a KFC nugget.

Fact is strong bodied contested football teams that can win their own ball & keep it will win finals football. Nothing has changed in over 50 years except the professionalism. The media & most followers of the game think its a magic formula, when you strip it back it is a very simple game. Pick kids that can play the game, win their own ball & will play contested football!!!

You're right about one thing ... he's a one-touch player. Two or three on a good day.

Maybe ask him over "for a look around", and get Jack Trengove to throw him to the ground so he can't leave :-)

Get stuck into GC17 boys - there is talent a plenty. Two years of development under their belts and we have plenty salary cap dollars to get the job done. Ever man and his dog will be in there ... but do they have the salary cap $$$$ to splash around? "Little birdy" tells me that not all is as it would appear in gold coast land.

Not a good idea for mine, these 2nd stringers shine with top talent around them. They won't have that luxury with us and it would be a waste of a first round pick. We should take 2 first round mids with Viney in this draft, there are a few really good ones that will be available to us given our recent form.

Remember Bomber Thompson new First time coach 1999-2000, too him 8 yrs to win a flag Almost lost his Job in 2007, the rest is history Cleaned the list out Changed the culture...remember handbags etc Neeld is expected to change all this within 6 months! Give the guy a break!

You are kidding right? Jones has come on in leaps and bounds over the last couple of seasons and I would not be at all surprised to see him poll well in the Brownlow this year. He is still young and if he continues to improve at the rate he has been, he will be remembered as one of the best midfielders this club has produced... once he is surrounded by a cohesive and well drilled team that want to play as desperately as he does, he will absolutely shine.

"The problem with quotes on the Internet is you have no idea if they're real or not." - Abraham Lincoln

It's like reading a train wreck that thread! And I'm in it... My hopes were wrong in that last post... Let's hope we can still eke some more money out...

I agree Maurie, whilst the general gist of the article is that MFC might have misjudged things... how people continually bring it back to NikNat v Watts is beyond me. ... the relevance to Hurley might be a better way to do it, but if we look at the top 5 picked... I doubt the order would be different regardless of who had the picks (possibly WA clubs taking NikNat first....) but not that much difference...

I agree 100% Ron, the only question in my mind is that after his first contract would he have done a Scott Thompson on us? We'll never know but I can guarantee WCE would have gone very hard for him and given him every excuse to go home. It's all hypothetical but I have a feeling he would have said "Go f&%& yourself San Francisco Melbourne"

I like Dangerfield but I don't know if this is due to potential or his current performances. He reminds me of Col Sylvia more a half forward with runs in the middle and no real consistancy. Our midfield has no problems getting there hands on the footy but we don't seem to have any players that can break away with good acceleration. Look at Jones the amount of times he gets his hands on the footy at a stoppage is good but he is tackled and usaully a second stoppage or free kick. I have posted this for years our midfielders just don't work for each other we are like under 9 footballers they are all trying to win the footy. I still look at our midfield and think OK it is good missing some outside quality but I feel we need to smash out the selfish attitude and apply structure and get these guys working together with blocks, sheppards to creat space for the ball carrier. We then add Viney and two ball carrying mids through the draft and we are not that far off

What's more damning is that by the end of 2010 the club seemingly still hadn't worked this out. Despite our clear need for a hard, power forward, it then picked Cook over Darling - ie, it picked yet another skinny, tall, mobile forward over a hard, power forward. Here are the bios that were posted on the AFL website PRIOR to the draft. Our ineptitude on this pick is simply stunning. Cook may very well turn out to be a great player, but he's not what this club needs now or at the time we picked him. It's that simple. Criminal stupidity. Also decadent in the extreme. Cook in his own words: http://www.afl.com.a...38/default.aspx What type of player are you? A mobile tall forward with the versatility to go back or play on a wing. Isn't this what Niall is saying Watts is? Darling, on the other hand, in his own words: http://www.afl.com.a...51/default.aspx What type of player are you? A hard, courageous and competitive player who brings other players into the game. Which AFL player do you feel you resemble and why? People say Jonathan Brown with his strength, courage and leadership. Lance Franklin as well because of his agility, speed and athleticism. What are your strengths as a footballer? Marking, ferocity at the ball, defensive pressure, strength, speed, endurance, agility and mental strength. Isn't this what Niall is saying everyone in the competition knew the MFC clearly needed, given our light bodied focus in 2008? Cop a tip, I think it is. No pick p1sses me off more than this one. It was just so obvious that, by the end of 2010, Darling more than Cook was the player WE needed at pick 12.

This is and has been the problem with our structure for the past 5 years we are looking to have our attacking players down back and creating our attacks from our defensive 50m arc. It just doesn't work we need to start to control the midfield, if we can't get more supply into our forward 50m arc we will not win games. Our attack like most other AFL clubs need to be started in our forward half winning the footy across the centre.

So Caro still sticking with the story that Davey either outright lied or embellished the story and all Mifsud did wrong was leaking this? Something really stinks here.

While we're on the topic of Andrew Demetriou's integrity ... http://www.heraldsun...d-1226323251287 "Last week the AFL said Davey, in a conversation with Mifsud, was remorseful, apologetic and hurting. Davey vehemently denied any such feelings." Now, we are told the exact opposite ... that it was Mifsud who "misinterpreted" what Davey said. This, despite going on record last week as saying what Davey said was "clear and unmistakable". I still think Neeld should sue. So should Davey. * Edit ... Caro weighs in on the AFL's "whitewashing" of the truth in this matter ... http://www.theage.co...d=1334064974811

some one needs to be boiled in oil for letting Darling slip through our fingers --dont care about other clubs letting green come out in media talking tough

I would say that the poorest disposing team in the league 2-3 years ago was West Coast. Poor disposal at times is more about decision making, confidence and team mates not providing suitable options. I believe we have some poor disposers but it is hard to judge at present when the other factors I mentioned are such an issue.

He can play, just can't get on the park at the moment. Good size, strength, kick and mark to make it as a mid. If the development argument is right and we have it right then he has every chance of making it.

For me the impatience was after we started to bottom out from 2007 (14th) 2008 (16th) 2009 (16th) really thru to really 2009,,, 2010 (12th) 2011 (13th) ... It took us 3 years to bottom out clearing the list & rebuilding it. Thats quick. But it's left us with some players who we now need to be shocked back into reality. I'd rather be where we are now, than being perpetually where we were thru the early part of this century, Up one year & down the next, with no Real talent, no Sam Michells, & the players becoming part of a 'Circus', putting on a show to entertain us, but had no real sustainability. This is why we had to bottom out in the first place. We ran out of talent that we had from the late '90's,, Keeping punters entertained while trying to rebuild every 2nd year is no good, & we didn't have any real leaders to put young guys right. Now, we have talent on the list, but they haven't been taught to play tough & hard brand of footy.... Next year, 2013, I want to be our line in the sand year, as we'll have some more tough personnel, that were grooming, on top of Jones, Trengove, Tapscott, Jordie Mac, Grimes, +++ hopefully Viney, Taggert, Tynan, maybe Moloney if he hangs tough? I think you can see there's some grunt coming through & some leadership coming through. We need to get those, who Will pickup the Mantle, to show us,,, before we trade & clear the list of stale bottles on the wall. .

DemonWA thank you for some sensible observations. I agree you look back at the top teams and at some point their good players were not much more than AFL standard. We are too quick to dismiss the talent at our disposal. In the muddle that is Mark Robinson (says one thing then contradicts it) he said there is a point at which players suddenly believe they can play and believe they deserve to play. Its then they want the ball sent to them, they mark it and their kicking improves as well. We have quite a few players who we remind each week we dont think they deserve to play and are yet to believe it themselves. Once they turn that corner things will improve. Its the theory of sending them back to the ressies to learn they are a cut above that competition. I really believe we will slowly improve over this year and no team could have done well with all the distractions of the last few weeks. I think Neeld is on the right track and all we need is everyone on board.

I think you'll find that was George Washington, Striker B)

Why are people bagging Watts? He was probably one of five that were okish imo.

Actually . Our supporters base are weak ,short-sighted ,fickle and stupid.Our board is fine ,as are most of our picks .Our REAL fans are ,some of which are here ,are awesome ,loyal ,stuanch and maybe a bit masochistic .

I go back to losing Scott Thompson, not giving enough game time to Jolly, keeping players like Brad Miller for too long, and then capping it off by giving our most loyal servant - Junior - the boot.

Showing the white feather? I have been a longtime supporter too, but I'm not changing ships now or ever.

Morton is better than half the blokes we have in there at the moment. At least he has a bit of run and good disposal.

Out: Green, Bennell In: Morton, Moloney

I envy my wife. She hates sport, she seems so much happier.

I'm still in business DC after 34 years and that's because I watch what i do and who I deal with. I have certain rules in place and if the cash ain't there on time the client can walk. In my industry we have what's known as word of mouth and the bad ones are usually found out soon enough and they have to deal with the bottom feeders if they need cover. Allowing any player leave to go in to a situation as volatile as the one that Liam headed to was not real bright and to tell you the truth I'm sick of everything being based along racist lines, since when has common sense equaled racist? I don't care which player it was, care should have been taken. If we had a white anglo Western Australian player going back to a situation where he had previously been involved in a gang war over there I'd expect the same thing. The Club were aware of the situation there and they should have put something in place to protect one of their more valuable players.

Yes they were, but here's the thing; I don't care what they did, I don't support them and I would have hoped we would be more professional and competent than they are. We can continually dismiss criticism of our club, which you want to do, by saying "we weren't the only ones", but guess what, that doesn't make it any better. We are a poorly run club lacking the professionalism we hoped we would get under Jimmy and Schwab. This club has become somewhat of a joke and having our one sponsor turn out to be a dud hasn't helped. We had what appears to have ben a player revolt last year, we had our senior players play like spoilt little children and allow the club to get flogged by 186 points. We have had the story run in the paper that the coach was safe and the CEO was going to get the sack, this came from people that don't usually get it wrong, and then the reverse occurred. We have been told that we were close to getting a FOJ sponsor but in reality it isn't even close, so was this just more b/s? We allowed Liam to go home, to a situation we knew was going to be volatile, without anyone from the club to accompany him and now we are seeing the result of this with perhaps our only genuine crowd puller facing a lengthy stay in prison. We have seen our club, over the last few years, fall behind all the clubs that were in the same position or worse than we were in and our playing stocks after 5 years of insipid performance are dreadful. But if you ask why, all you get is "we recruited the best available" and when you mention that we could have done better by picking x player instead of who we did, all you get is the usual"well no one else took him did they". Pathetic, no wonder we fail we read the papers and choose our recruits from the phantom drafts.

He looks like Lance Whitnall after two hours in a microwave oven.

Not that i give any creedence to the ACCC What an increible toothless tiger they are...look at Supermarkets and oil prices. Total waste of time the ACCC!!!