Leaderboard

Whilst the result on the weekend was worse than the previous year (in terms of margin), I couldn’t help but feel more optimistic after this year’s loss to West Coast. Last year I left the ground disappointed with the players effort and skill level; this time around I left feeling like we had some positives to build on, which helped me cope with the barrage of abuse that was dished out in my direction at the Subi hotel! I’m not sure how it looked on TV, but at Half time the scoreboard looked ugly, but we were matching it with them in general play IMO. If it wasn’t for some dubious free kicks we would have been in touch (that was how it looked from my perspective, without any TV or Radio commentary swaying my opinion). Our forward line got hardly any opportunities but Mitch Clark was able to kick 5 goals from five ½ chances & Lynden Dunn played well enough. Our backline fought hard all day and I think that we have enough talent back there for long term planning. In the Midfield we weren’t able to get our hands on the ball – simple as that. But as a general rule when we did have the ball we did ok. As much as I hate the Eagles they are a league above us for now. If anything we should take heart from their improvement . Scott Selwood was a very limited footballer a few seasons ago and he’s now racking up the possessions and kicking goals from 50 on acute angles. 2 seasons ago I would have said he was a tagger at best. Whilst the eagles might have “tanked” to pick up Gaff, and spread rumours about discipline and alcohol to secure Darling, the Eagles were a very average team only a few seasons ago and 2 players can change the fortunes of an entire side. Glass, Cox and Kerr are champion players which we don’t have the likes of, but if Neeld and Co play their cards right over the next few years we can be a good side too. Interested to see how we go against the Tigers who we have seemed to have the wood over for a couple of seasons now.

You are kidding right? Jones has come on in leaps and bounds over the last couple of seasons and I would not be at all surprised to see him poll well in the Brownlow this year. He is still young and if he continues to improve at the rate he has been, he will be remembered as one of the best midfielders this club has produced... once he is surrounded by a cohesive and well drilled team that want to play as desperately as he does, he will absolutely shine.

Why didn't team mates fly the flag when Frank Grimes got crunched?? He is our captain. This is very concerning to me. The MFC is not a team right now...

I love watching AFL, so even when we are traveling badly I can still find pleasure in watching games like the Cats v Hawks yesterday and there's usually at least one very watchable game each week.

OK, I'm sick of sorting through the many threads of complete crap and have decided to start something constructive instead. Our overall structure of a side looks quite good if we project their quality into the future. A forward line of Clark, Watts, Howe, McDonald, Cook, Fitzpatrick etc has quality and potential. Our defence of Frawley, Garland, Davis, Sellar, Rivers, etc has some established quality and some potential too. Between these players we should be able to fashion high quality book ends in time. However, as has been noted, the problem is trying to give adequate supply to the forwards and restrict the supply to the defenders. The problem is the midfield. We lack the real top end quality, and we lack a depth of quality. We look at players like Moloney to lead our midfield, but in top 4 teams the midfield is being led by: Swan, Pendlebury, Mitchell, Hodge, Judd, Murphy, Selwood, Bartel, Priddis, Kerr, etc. These teams have two or more players who are far better than our best. Our midfield has some good young players. Our most promising are Trengove and Gysberts, with Jones probably starting to enter his productive years. I think Trengove has the chance to be a very good player because of his ability to find a bit of time in traffic. Gysberts should also be very good, but will need time to develop his running capacity. Jones has shown so far this year that his power running will hld him in good stead. Aside from that we lack. But what are we going to do about it? Thankfully we have a very strong draft hand coming up in a very strong draft. This involves the two fairly early draft picks from Scully. We are also committed to a high quality midfielder in Viney. We have a few different ways we could do it. Firstly we could look to fill other holes in the draft and move some of our more talented players into the midfield. These players include Grimes, Watts and Howe. This would have the advantage of giving us a more rounded team, but it would rely on our current list being able to give us a good enough midfield. Secondly we could look to trade one, or both, of those early draft picks for a top quality mature midfielder. This would involve spending both picks and money, but it would give us an immediate boost in the same way that Clark did for our forward line. Thirdly, we could trade for one of the 17 year old picks that GWS has access to. These would be the top players in next year's draft, as they are below draft age this year, in the same way as O'Meara and Crouch were this year. This could give us really top talent, but we would have to wait even longer for the player to become good. And fourthly, we could just spend our two early picks on the best two midfielders that we can. This will improve our midfield, but will it get us a star, or just two good midfielders? And it will take time for those players to make an impact. So what do you think we should do to achieve a premiership midfield? And, more importantly, why do you think we should do that?

Yes that is a positive isn't it - we've managed to irradicate the week on week off inconsistencies of last year.

It is multifactorial. Recruiting? Development? Fitness? Game plan? Teamwork? Skills? If a player is really fit so he is not gasping his last breath by the time that he is about to dispose of the ball he will deliver the ball better. If he knows that a teammate will shepherd for him he will have time to deliver the ball better. If he knows that teammates will run, spread and give him multiple options, he will deliver the ball better, and usually sooner. If he knows the game plan, and he knows that the players down field and behind him know the game plan, he will deliver the ball better. It is going to take time.

For me the impatience was after we started to bottom out from 2007 (14th) 2008 (16th) 2009 (16th) really thru to really 2009,,, 2010 (12th) 2011 (13th) ... It took us 3 years to bottom out clearing the list & rebuilding it. Thats quick. But it's left us with some players who we now need to be shocked back into reality. I'd rather be where we are now, than being perpetually where we were thru the early part of this century, Up one year & down the next, with no Real talent, no Sam Michells, & the players becoming part of a 'Circus', putting on a show to entertain us, but had no real sustainability. This is why we had to bottom out in the first place. We ran out of talent that we had from the late '90's,, Keeping punters entertained while trying to rebuild every 2nd year is no good, & we didn't have any real leaders to put young guys right. Now, we have talent on the list, but they haven't been taught to play tough & hard brand of footy.... Next year, 2013, I want to be our line in the sand year, as we'll have some more tough personnel, that were grooming, on top of Jones, Trengove, Tapscott, Jordie Mac, Grimes, +++ hopefully Viney, Taggert, Tynan, maybe Moloney if he hangs tough? I think you can see there's some grunt coming through & some leadership coming through. We need to get those, who Will pickup the Mantle, to show us,,, before we trade & clear the list of stale bottles on the wall. .

There should be an appropriate board for matters such as these.. let's call it the "who gives a [censored]" board.

I got one more thing out of it, Lyon spoke about himself in the 3rd person.

Davis, Tom McDonald & Tynan are 3 boys I have enjoyed watching this year. Wear their hearts on their sleeves - a credit to them at such a young age. Put Davis at CHB, McDonald at CHF & Tynan wherever and watch them grow. They may get beaten from time to time but at least you know they will try.

Really? Grey? We don't have a FOJ sponsor. Our major sponsor has been sacked (and even if you accept that due diligence was followed in letting Energywatch on board the buck still stops with the CEO for selecting a company owned and run by a borderline lunatic - his self published autobiography at the least should have raised some red flags). There has been rumblings that Kapersky were less than impressed with the service they received and didn't re-sign. Not much grey there i wouldn't have thought. Red faced but not much grey. Like any business a CEO is judged on results and unfortunately the scoreboard does not look good for CS. Oh and you don't think the CEO has a role in building unity and ensuring everyone sticks to their roles?

Im getting impatient about being impatient!!! But patience from here on in is all that must happen I guess, sad but true!

That's not the issue at all, and Caro is being mischievous. The issue is that either: - Mifsud made it up and was knowingly spreading lies about Neeld; - or that he breached the confidence of a player (whether they were lying about telling him that, or there was an honest miscommunication). So lies, or breaching a player's confidence in a highly sensitive issue. And not just once to Grant Thomas, but also to Caroline Wilson and others. Thomas is not at fault here - he just made public something that was already common knowledge among the AFL fraternity BECAUSE OF MIFSUD.

Out: C.Schwab In: Dr Who

I have a theory that I have thrown around a little of late... The MFC Youth False Economy © The false economy surrounds the fact that our young players don't have the aide of productive, committed senior players that other clubs have. This lack of protection means that the young players of the MFC have to do more than other kids do, and when they fail - as the other kids would in the same predicament, it looks as though the young players at the MFC are not as good as the youth at other teams.

You can add Artie Bucco to that list.

and even better at funerals............

Eddie is the pies PR . Only a few short weeks ago he was threatening to cripple us by taking our sponsors ,taking the QB game off us , talking Demetriou into giving us less money etc. If what you say is true , none of that would've happened. Then he undermines the club and nabs Jurrah for the scoop. When Jimmy died , there he was front and centre spruiking about he and Jim could get the QB game as big as it was back in the days. Eddies a [censored] , like all journos , any which way the wind blows for a headline.

Yes, i agree. My feeling is we are still dealing with whatever did actually go wrong last year. It was widely reported around the time of 186 that the admin and footy department (and players) were at loggerheads, suggesting Hells Gate's comments about how involved Schwab has been in the football department's business over the last couple of years are close to the mark. My sense is this might well be central to what went so badly wrong last year and i also feel it continues to impact this year. Don't get me wrong i'm not suggesting Schwab is responsible or should go but there was definitely some sort of trauma last year (beyond the obvious in the sacking of Bailey and 186). Trauma takes time to deal with and can linger for a long time, particularly if it swept under the carpet and not properly acknowledged and/or addressed. There is no such thing as drawing a line and fully starting afresh, something Neeld is now having to come to terms with. Something still doesn't feel right at the club

Joel Selwood is tougher than our entire list put together. Nearly broke his jaw and then just got up and got on with it! I get more joy out of watching Geelong's gutsy performances than I do watching the Dees these days. Sigh

Bartell is the best player in the comp IMO. When the game is to be won for the cats have a look who stands up. 9 outta 10 its Bartell.

Arguing over who should be in or out at Melbourne is a bit like arguing over a preference for the electric chair or lethal injection. Young players need the senior group to lead the way. Without any exaggeration our senior group, and I don't mean leadership group, is the worst I've seen in my time following footy. Our 25+ age group has no-one that inspires confidence, or impacts games. Green, Davey, Sylvia, Moloney, Rivers, Jamar, Joel MacDonald and Stefan Martin are the only players over the age of 25 on our list. Green has had a fine career, but he's finished and the rest are disappointing and certainly miles off the upper echelon of the AFL. Those group of 8 players are the reason we're crud. The fact we only have 8 players over the age of 25 is also one of the reasons we're crud. Hawthorn have 19. Carlton and Collingwood have 14. But more importantly some of their senior players are bona fide stars of the game, which is a far cry from our miserable 8. Even the Crows and Port have 13. There is talent on the list, but we can't expect young players with less than 50 games experience to dominate games of footy. Col Garland feels like he's been around forever, but he's still 23 (nearly 24) and has only 60 games to his name. His best footy is ahead of him. And for these reasons I'm not slitting my wrist and can still glimpse the future. To all and sundry, even the experts, it looks like our list is crap, and the dearth of quality senior players ensures we're in for a tough year, but I like plenty of our young players. It's really disappointing that due to injury concerns we haven't seen enough of Strauss, Tapscott, and Gysberts, but if you put many of our developing players in the West Coast side they too would look terrific and be lauded by the football world. How would Andrew Gaff have looked if he was running around for Melbourne yesterday ? You'd see his talent, but he wouldn't have had half the game he did. Unfortunately, there's going to be more pain until we get strength and preseasons into the younger players. When their time does come - and it will - I'm expecting a pretty steely resolve. These tough years will be etched into their psyche. Akermanis, Simon Black, Bradshaw, the Scott Bros, Keating, Leppitsch, Power, Chris Johnson and McCrae all played in 98 when the Lions won the spoon. They'd all played less than 100 games. Obviously it's drawing a ridiculously long bow to suggest we'll win one flag, let alone three, but there would have been times through that season when Lions' supporters doubted their talent. When some would have been questioning whether their kids were good enough ? Needless to say, in 1998 not one Brisbane player made All Australian. In 2001 they had 4 and by 2002 they had 6. All of those players were on the list in 98. That said, we're no Lions of 99 who rebounded back up the ladder with a new coach. They had Lappin, Voss, Alistair Lynch, Ashcroft and a couple of other senior players showing the way, which gets back to the heart of our problem. We're in for some more hurt, but I'm certain we do have some very good young players on our list and while that's the case I know things aren't as bad as they seem.

What a pathetic thread, yes lets all give up. Lets expect the club and players to rally but we all just give up. Yes it is bad now but I am not throwing away about 55 years of fanatical devotion to just give up. It will turn around and I will be there when it does. There is lots to fix but it will be fixed. One good draft, picking well, can give us a new midfield. That is our main problem on the field. Our list will be turned around quickly. It will change and I will be there when it does. My only alternative is to give up footy and I won't. To those who want to quit, grow some balls. Go Dees.

Is that an anatomical reference?

Bring back the roller coaster!

I would be extremely surprised (albeit pleasantly) if Fitzpatrick plays 50 games in the AFL.

What choice do we have? Our enthusiasm might wane. We might find it hard to convince ourselves to trudge of to the footy mid winter to watch the dees get smashed. Like watching a car crash in slow motion we will read about more crazy stuff happening at the club. We will put up with (just) the oh so funny comments about the dees from family and friends. We will slowly accept that we have to almost rebuild from scratch and won't progress until we have turned over every player older than 25 (with the possible exception of Jamar). Despite ourselves we will start wondering if the curse of The Red Fox is real. But what choice do we have. As i said to my 9 year old son once you barrack for a team, that't it, ther's nothing to be done.They're our team and for better or more likely worse we have to remain loyal.

Really? Where were we at in 2008? What happens if we can't snare a major sponsor? Where are the 10K members from last year who haven't signed up? How can we expand our membership base if we are anchored to the bottom of the ladder? We won't go bust next year but if some of these things don't turn around quickly we could very well find ourselves back where we were in 2008.

we've had a shocking month that couldn't be helped by anyone but l've had enough and after being a member for nearly 20 yearsl'm just about giving up on football. l don't enjoy watching other teams and now l can't watch my own, l've got better things to do.

If something like that happened to me, I'd come out breathing fire. Not everybody would, but you'd think that at least a few of our players would react this way. It doesn't seem that any of them have, which indicates that they are not greatly affected by recent events, at least from a performance perspective.

Fremantle supporters strongly believe that the best thing that ever happened to their club was that Chris Connolly and Cameron Schwab moved on. Is it a coincidence that Freo's coming along and we're in the biggest hole we've been in, possibly ever?

Our biggest most recent mistake appears to be the youth policy. Not respecting he contribution of leaders such as McDonald have obviously left us devoid of a playing culture. Footy department obviously thought this would be driven by Green, Bruce, Davey, Moloney etal. They have left or been shown to be inept killing all that leadership and experience has left a massive hole. It's an absolute killer to see Juniour running around in orange and grey at least week in week out you knew what you would get. The standards are being set by 2 30to40 game players while I admire them what a sad reflection on the senior players.

It's not the game plan. We need their heart, determination and sheer will power...

Hawks were afraid to win that game. Geelong were absolutely brilliant, and completely got into the heads of the Hawthorn players. As a Melbourne supporter, it was great to see the Hawks make fearful mistakes at the hands of their bogey side, just as has happened for years at Melbourne Hawthorn games.

To think it was a flip of the coin between us getting Jimmy Bartell or Moloney. Moloney shoulda kept his hand down....'sigh'

Eddie can get stuffed. If the present CEO and board can't fix this mess pronto, spill them and get some people in there who have the ability to get the job done and done properly.

If you knew how many $$$ i have sent into the club since 2008 then you may understand....i say it because i sense a lot of die hard Demon faithful are finally becoming disillusioned with the clubs continuous position.I as a member, as you are (i guess) have been asked many times over the past 4 years to contribute...Happy to do so, But we should always expect value, and yes the club should "worry" about all it's members...not to a ridiculous point of course. But we are all important. I think many members right now, on here & on radio i have heard are really hurting beyond what ever they have felt before...& are sick of spending $$$ for the returns we are fed. All i am saying is the club must respect its members more than ever, if they expect all to jump on board yet again...because to fund our football department for the future will not be cheap..

I posted ths in another thread but it is worth a run here: The lack of midfield support is a worry. I wonder what impact this will have on Trengove's development? There has been a lot of comparison between Trengove and Bartel and I thought it was worth mentioning here what Bartel's numbers looked like after his first two seasons. 2002 11 games 140 disposals 3 goals 2003 13 games 157 disposals 5 goals Bartel played in a total of 9 wins over those 2 years. JT 2010 18 games 343 disposals 8 goals 2011 19 games 387 disposals 13 goals Trengove has played in 14 wins over those 2 years. I'd say Trengove is well on the way to becoming A grade but Bartel was able to develop into the super player he is alongside a number of other quality midfielders. I don't see an Ablett, Chapman, Corey, Kelly etc amongst our current lot. It does say that Jack has had a bloody good start to his career, though! My point being that Bartel didn't really become a reasonable AFL player until his third year and not elite until a fair bit later than that. He won his Brownlow in his 6th season. A number of other players around about Bartel's age and experience came through with him. Will Trengove continue to develop without that level of support - or is it already there? Have we recruited enough midfielders to be able to develop them the way they need to be?

Please read the quote by 3183 Dee on the other thread .Supporters are supposed to lift the team when they are down .Not drag it into the mud.

Couch in!! He would give us an armchair ride.

Actually . Our supporters base are weak ,short-sighted ,fickle and stupid.Our board is fine ,as are most of our picks .Our REAL fans are ,some of which are here ,are awesome ,loyal ,stuanch and maybe a bit masochistic .

Everyone does. And to put it in simple terms, what pick do you think every other club in the competition would now trade for: (a) Darling; and (B) Cook? Cop a tip - Darling would attract a much higher pick than Cook. Let the market tell you whether Darling's been a good pick. Also, this is not hindsight - everyone on this site was shocked when we didn't pick him at 12. Hardly anyone of us (and the AFL world generally) knew Cook was even in the mix at that pick.

I've always wondered what it means when people say our club doesn't stand for anything. Especially because I couldn't see what any other club stood for. But now I know out club does stand for something - decency.

Given that we were in the media spotlight, we had to act quickly on this one to be able to control the story. We can now control the message from the story as 'we are a club of high integrity and this is unacceptable - we're too good for him so we dumped him', rather than sitting on our hands for a day and then having the media find a different angle as they speculated.

The wheel of publicity turns in mysterious ways Thomo, we will be ok. I am old fashioned, when you do the right thing and act with consistency and integrity and set standards, good things happen.

I disagree with this, we have stood up to the AFL this week and walked away from 2mil per year sponser, that takes guts and strength. The club and coach should be congratulated on the way they have performed this week

Proud of the clubs stance on this, on Aaron and on Liam. It is decisions like this one (that come at a cost) that make integrity a real part of our culture and brand at Melbourne rather than a aspiration in a vision statement. Well done, Cam and the board of the MFC.

I don't agree, we could actually come out of this better than before. I see this as an enormous opportunity to stamp ourselves as a club of integrity and strength. The kind that attracts sponsors. We are certainly getiing a lot of media lately. I am hopeful that we will have little trouble attracting a sponsor, if one strikes while the iron is hot they will get good exposure right away. They can be the knight in shining armour supporting the clubs resolve to stand against racism and bigotry.

Last time I had one was January 1971. Now that is a long time ago Me and three mates drove across the Nulabor, 300 miles of dirt in those days for Summer holidays. No air con in the HD Arh those were the days