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Went down to Casey this morning. Great turn out plenty of supporters i thought. Happy to answer any questions on my observations but of particular note: Spent the bulk of the session doing match simulations in regards to setups and stoppages. Neeld would yell out “ball up on the 50” or “centre bounce” or “boundary throw in forward pocket” and have players run this way and everyway to get to the stoppage and set up correct. The second the stoppage was won then – BANG – off the run 50 metres to the next stoppage. AFL umpires in attendance to coordinate it all and award free kick if needed. Involved a lot of match related running and quick thinking about YOUR role for the team in every situation. Never seen this happen before, thought it was a smart and brilliant way to combine fitness while testing player’s knowledge. Gysberts excelled at this drill, our best clearance player behind Moloney and his slight frame would be the only thing that could stop him from a big impact this season. Tapscott, J Viney, Jurrah, Evans, Bartram and McKenzie were off on their own doing running. Bate wasn’t at training Magner is a MASSIVE unit, is just Nathan Jones number II and if he has the polish that some mature aged footballers lack to take the next step, will be our Ed Curnow this season. Serviceable and an astute pick i think. Jeremy Howe really does stand out. If you never seen or knew the players at the MFC and watched today’s session as a Draft Camp, you would say Howe is in the Top 5 most talented players on display and you would draft him!! Really liked Taggert’s presence and swagger around the track, he seems confident and contributes well. Not always the case – Maric was one example of someone who always seemed to be uncertain. Its not till you go to training that you appreciate the size of players, with the height of Morton and increased size on Blease catching my eye Davey and Green are very much class acts, their super goal kicking actual embarrassed their other forwards at times. Davey trained well to my eye, and i think the forward line will change his fortunes. Do think that Green’s “bad year” may be a little exaggerated it think. Cook is very much a development player, but his talent is there. Coming off a low base due to injury. He is Watts 2 years ago, and we all know what has happened to that man since. Give him time at Casey 2012 and judge him the year after. Clark is a serious size, a little slower than i thought but probably has bulked up since Brisbane to be the gorilla i need. The old “Speccy Bag” came out towards the end for the big fellas to take hangers. Petterd, Howe and Stef Martin the standouts here. LOVED IT!!! Troy Davis trained with the midfielders, and has nice skills and pace for a KPP. Good luck to him at Casey this year, he is a debut chance in 2012 Enjoyed my morning very much. In honestly don’t recognise my Club anymore. And i am wrapt!!!! We are prepared, have talent but also the structures to ensure its not just potential. Whether the Club wants me to or not, i have Top 8 expectation this season now.

It's an outdated concept known as common courtesy. It used to be a bedrock of modern civilisations.

Three days ago I wrote that I thought Garry Lyon had done a wonderful job. On reflection, after reading through this thread one more time, I think I might have underestimated his contribution. I wasn't previously aware, but accept the word of those who claim that in the aftermath of the Geelong game, Lyon convinced the Board that the proper course was to retain Cameron Schwab as CEO and to terminate Dean Bailey's contract as coach. In other words, Garry intervened to put the case for Schwab and against Bailey to the key personnel on the Board on that fateful Sunday after the Geelong game. It's not clear whether or not he was invited to do so but he convinced enough of them to take the tough decisions which, given the accolades now being heaped on Schwab and the almost universal view that Bailey had to go sometime soon, then the outcome has been to the club's benefit notwithstanding that it might have been carried out clumsily and poorly. Such a conclusion will inevitably lead to argument about whether the end is justified by the means and, as we've already seen, the historians and revisionists on this site have already joined in the rush to judgement. Was Lyon entitled to enter into the "inner sanctum" and offer his advice on the coaching position? I think one could mount a strong argument in his favour whether he was invited to do so or not. Lyon is a friend of Stynes, a former captain, club champion who played in excess of 200 games. In 2007, the previous board invited him to take part in the selection process to recommend a new coach after Neale Daniher. On Footy Classified he had expressed the view that he wouldn't relish being involved in such a process again. His views as to whether Bailey had lived up to his expectations would have been relevant and valuable to Board members in their deliberations at a time when the club was in crisis. Some might have a problem with that but I don't - we keep getting reminded that the club deliberately tanked for draft choices and handled the dismissal of a former captain poorly. We even once unceremoniously boned a club president in mid-term who had kicked $2.7m into the club. Compared to that where is the problem with taking advice from a former club icon at a time of crisis? Was the club placed at a disadvantage in doing so? But that's not all. The fact that every man and his dog seems to know that Garry was definitely involved somehow in the process that led to the decisions of 31 July 2011 is a prime example of the insidious process of information being leaked from the board - something that has been systemic at this club since the 60s. The failure to keep things "in house" is generally indicative of an organisation that is run poorly and it doesn't give me much pleasure to say this but over the years we've had many boards and administrations that have been poorly run and some were totally dysfunctional. And guess what? During those 5½ months with Lyon in charge, the decisions taken were, by and large, announced by the club without prior leaks to the media. A number of the appointments caught the media by surprise. Lyon was honest and transparent when questioned by the media but never gave them too much. He said we weren't after Ross Lyon and we weren't but the media continued to speculate. They got most of it wrong. Garry and co got things right. After all this time I consider this to be a breath of fresh air for the club. Garry's livelihood is in the media where he is a bit of a megastar and prime property for the 9 network. Can we begrudge him the right to an income at his time of life when he has three kids and family matters to address? Not everyone's an Eddie McGuire! So I'll say again that we owe a great debt to Garry, Don, Cam and Jimmy for the inspiration behind the last half year. But they're not gods. However, that these guys have achieved so much in such a short time and yet, there are those out there wringing their hands and angry about some perceived injustices which might well be grounded in the fertile imaginations of some mischief makers suggests to me that some of our supporters need to follow the lead of our new coach and the playing group and harden up.

Im a fence sitter on this one. No doubt that Garry Lion has helped out the club over the last little while, but I can also see why people would be saying negative things about the set of circumstances that were required in order for him to become involved. He's obviously made some things happen but i wouldnt paint him as the messiah in all of this. If anyone is the unsung hero, its Schwab

I think what DA is getting at is that we are all thanking people for a training report through their biased eyes, not a training report by an expert. Therefore conclusions on reality cannot be taken by Land training reports. On that I agree. But I am more than happy for people to post them, and I thank them for driving down and sharing their views, however biased.

For what it's worth, my compliments to Axis of Bob and rpfc for this interesting and very well articulated debate. For the most part, both have avoided personal criticism and provided interesting arguments which more than anything show how a forum such as this can open the minds of all of us.

Kento, I agree with most of what you've written. Empathy is a funny one: I am a psychologists, and I have empathy for most of my patients and that absolves them of none of their responsibilities. Jimmy has responsibilities. On his watch, with his role, the FD wobbled and now has almost been entirely replaced. Did he let it happen so Bailey could be easily replaced? DId he just not notice? Ws he too sick? Why sack a bloke over the phone? What the hell were the rest of the board doing? My concern is that Jim is controlling and relatively effective at the 'house-building' that you've described. That means decisions (of a size) get left up to him...and when he doesn't make them they don't get made by anyone. From outside, I think that is what happened. As pres, the buck stops with Jim. He needs to take responsibility and hold himself and his board to account. If he cannot do it then it begins to compromise board functioning. Can Melbourne, so flush with life but so bloody vulnerable afford that risk now? A board that didn't know what the footy dept was doing, that was unable to stop FD and admin quarrels and that was interviewing players about club functioning? WTF? All with Jim front and centre. Thanks Jim. Without you, my kids would not know the Dees and that is a debt I can never repay. What I'll do is brainwash them and take them to games and pay my memberships and post on forums and be active and interested in the life of my club. And it is now time to recognise your limits, hand the job to a man you trust and respect and see that your job is continued. I have empathy for Jim; I don't think he can do that job (too sick) or that the board can carry him and I don't think it should carry him. I wonder if he thinks it should? They've shown little ability to step up when Jim was so sick this year - hell they needed gary to come in and do stuff (or let schwab do stuff) to fix the mess. It might make Jim sad, but at least telling him to step down would be being honest about his capacity, genuine in assessment and respectful of where he and the club are and need to be. Empahy is great, however, if you sacrifice your values in order to not make someone feel bad, then you are basically lying to them and yourself. So that you and they can feel better. Not my thing.

I would be extremely surprised if any club thinks they got it right in letting Darling slip to 26 (WCE aside), particularly following his season last year. He should only get better too. Anyone who suggests otherwise is seemingly trying to justify a position that doesn't quite accord to reality IMO. Darling was one 'out of the box' - and, on any construction, that's a good thing. His character was apparently the issue, yet there were seemingly no character issues that transpired at all during last season - so the underlying fear proved to be entirely misguided. His skills and on field aggression were not ever in issue. All this, 'let's wait and see in 4 years' starts to wear a bit thin after a while IMO. It's too convenient, and it effectively censors all such comparisons. I'm absolutely stoked we picked Howe, but don't be thinking we pulled him completely out of the hat. When we passed over Darling at pick 12, there was absolutely no certainty Howe would be around in the 30s. Other clubs were tracking him too, including Collingwood I believe. And Darling and Howe in the forward line would be awesome over the next 5 years or so - they'd compliment each other very nicely IMO, particularly with Mitch Clark, Jack Watts, Ricky Petterd and Liam Jurrah rotating through it too - opposition defenders wouldn't know which way to look.

Let's just see where Darling and Cook are at after 4-5 years... A medium forward should be expected to produce straight away; a tall skinny KPF not so much. The way Darling plays the game is irrelevant - a medium forward is what he is. And there's a school of thought that things were much easier for Darling to have an impact because of his side's success. Much like Fasolo, or Duncan / Menzel / Christensen / Vardy, or Smith / Stratton / Shiels / Savage. It's a lot easier with good coaching & great players around you. There's a reason why the top clubs seem to be getting gun kids late in the draft all the time.

There are clearly some issues with having as President someone with Jimmy's health concerns. I doubt there would be many who haven't had at least a passing thought about whether it would be good for him or the club to remain as our leader. But I see no reason why the situation needs to be changed at this point in time while his deputy and his CEO are in place and Sugar is apparently about to come on board. The current set up might not be ideal but it's a hell of a lot better now than it was six months ago and if people are concerned that we might have looked bad because Bailey wasn't told to his face that he had the sack that would look like a mole hill compared to telling Jimmy to move on. I'm glad we have a moral compass because it will hold us in good stead in this new era to come.

I was going to say in response to Clint's comment that the great thing about getting reports from different posters is the diversity of opinion. Getting three reports gives a much richer picture than one report; five reports gives a richer picture than three, and so on. I think (hope!) that Clint was trying to point out the folly of subsequent posters latching on to a single impression or comment from a single report as stand-or-fall proof of a player's overall attitude or whatever. I'd hope it's not the reporter being criticised. Far as I'm concerned, like everyone else, your reports (and your opinions and comments and impressions that go with them) are very valuable and very highly appreciated - the more the better. Especially at this time of the year, it's like manna from heaven. Don't know how I'd get thru the week without them!

I don't agree with this at all. Darling may be a couple of cm's shy of Watts and Cook's height but he's more than just another mid-sized forward. He's a pack buster with more aggression than Green , Jurrah, Howe and Petterd put together. I'm one of quite a few on here who feel we erred in not taking him at 12 and I suspect, given the new direction we're taking, that if M. Neeld were given the choice between Cook and Darling at the time he wouldn't have hesitated on naming the latter.

Maybe that's why he is a Sellar?

I got rid of the asides... And I believe that that ceiling is too high for him and that it is too much to ask of him to be as effective as Frawley as a pure defender to release Frawley. Let others read that - you don't have re-publish... I believe you are tacitly saying, by the fact that you have written so extensively, that Sellar is a good chance to play this role. That is where I made that judgement. I apologise for jumping to that conclusion. I'm happy to stop arguing the future role and merits of the 35th best player on our list.

Plenty of mindless speculation here.....

No he doesn't want to commit he has openly said he likes his life the way it is, he does not want to be like eddie & jimmy working 24/7 not everyone is suitable for that. Let me just add yes Gary loves the club but what he did was for Jimmy more than the club. He knows how much the club means to Jimmy and when he visited Jimmy and spoke with him after the Kardinia debacle he understood the job ahead for Jimmy at the club and he was asked to help not for the first time. Gary had said no before for the reasosn discussed in paragraph 1 but it was now his opinion that he did not feel Jimmy could do this whilst also battling for his health. This was said by Gary in numerous interviews and on TFS people can have an agenda against Gary and take shots at him being half in and half out. I care about the club and took him on face value when he came in 6 months ago that he would do what was best for the club. IMO he has done that and even more than I expected but it is not solely his work and it is not over. Let's just wait and see how the structures he and the others have put into place pan out before we start firing missiles at him

And Phill Scully is really Gary Lyon wearing a fat suit.

Now that is definitely revisionist Thomo A board and president who are forced by a mere club member/supporter - some board! And then to blame the 'mess' of the club on someone who is not employed by the club - wow! I think your agenda might just be showing

what does it cost you to type out the words "appreciate the effort"? even if you disagree at least you have something to disagree with. the photos taken from past trainings seem to indicate that plenty of people rock up to training, up here 200 rocked up for the gold coast suns beach session, but only a handfull take the time to actually write up a report. THANK YOU TO THOSE THE WRITE REPORTS if your going to make negative comments make them about a specific view, don't make people not want to post otherwise you're ruining it for the rest of us

Sums it up for me too, rpfc. I appreciate the effort people go to, but also reserve the right to make my own mind up on how much weight to give each report.

I will get excited when actual news is heard. I don't mean to sound negative but I would like to hear something.

these must be some very detailed reports of todays training session coming....... looking forward to the read later

have you seen the graphics, remember the jumpers from the china match against brisbane. the chinese writing looks great. point of difference

Who cares.... if it is to the benefit of MFC.

Have you got it in for Garry Lyon....are you not impressed with what the last 6 months have done for the MFC? I honestly do not understand why there is all this bitter innuendo being thrown at one G. Lyon???

would love to hear any reports from training. we really are into the business end of pre season now.

The Date was off the web as an auspicious date so i could be wrong, referred to in a number of places. Direct competition because at the moment China Southern dont fly to Heathrow from Guangz so you choice would be Melb Sing LHR on Qantas or Melb Guangz LHR on China southern. I believe the ailrines see this as direct competition like going to LHR through Dubai etc. Trust me I am no expert on this it was just a thought....

I thought about that too but a news search brings up this article: China Southern set to take on Qantas which describes the main strategy as offering another transfer hub as well as European options. The part that really made me take notice though was this bit: ...and this bit In the context of MFC we have no idea what this could mean (probably nothing) but in the context of China Southern they have massive plans for Australia by the sounds of things.

Agree. It would have been best for Jim to do it in person rather than on the phone. Other than that, taking into consideration the magnitude of the loss and the KPI's from the season, and given Adelaide were already in the market, we had to move. It's a dog eat dog world out there. It wasn't a time to play Mr.Nice and think we would just land the best available letting Bailey finish his tenure, especially after that 186 disaster. So much has to be taken into consideration, including corporate dollars. We could have lost more with inaction, not just the best coach prospect.

Liam got the cast off his hand yesterday, so hopefully he can begin doing some ball work now to get his touch back. At least all the running he's done over the last couple of months should do him the world of good.

My understanding is that Belly suffered numerous concussions before he started with us, and that this may have contributed to his lack of awareness and further concussions when at MFC, and the subsequent deterioration later in his career. I find it hard to compare Strauss with Bell in that context.

I don't think any of us know when he suffered brain damage. He suffered serious concussion a number of times before he joined MFC.

This is the picture I saw. And no stats will illustrate it for those who love stats (and I am partial to numbers). But stats lie.

The new coaches have already stated that they have different focuses from an individual, team, leadership and gamestyle perspective.Each coach is rating each player on the leadership characteristics they bring to the table. No disrespect but does anyone seriously think that Green will come out on or even close to on top?

My understanding is that there was never a deal "on the table" for another 2 years of Bailey from the MFC Board. And a professional club does not need to act vindictively on its employee who act honesty but fail to achieve the success required. Fair assessment of the situation. Stynes can still do that in an ex officio role. The role of Club President is probably the most important role in the Club. Stynes has done some wonderful things for the Club. However last year the extent of Stynes challenges lead him to step aside. As a consequence of his illness he was unable to perform his duties and areas that were under his direct control had become dysfunctional and as Fan had pointed out at Board level decisions were being made haphazardly. MFC had to call in a "saviour" Lyon to clean up things up. Now what has been done in the past six months has been impressive in a number of areas. We need to tkae advantage of this progress. I am concerned that incumbent President who has had a momentary reprieve from the grips of his health battles is in no better poistion to fulfill his role than he was before. I think its empathetic to his and Clubs situation that his health and the future of the Club is given due consideration. Edit: I just saw timD's post. Excellent effort Tim. You nailed it.

Yeah, right and congratulations on your day off PF. Make the most of it! I spent the Christmas break out by the beach at Frankston but missed the opportunity to get to relatively nearby Casey Fields (about 20 minutes against light traffic at that time of year). Now they're down there every second day of the week and I'm stuck in the office. Just my luck! However, I did manage to check out St. Kilda's facility at Belvedere Park in Seaford and let me say what a second rate facility in drab suburban surroundings that is compared with what we have at both Casey Fields and Gosch's Paddock. It really is true what Mark Neeld and Neil Craig said about us now having facilities that are second to none among all of the AFL clubs. They're certainly superior to the ones at Carlton and I'm not forgetting Chris Judd's famous knock about what we had at the Junction Oval or Brock McLean's snipe about travelling to Casey Fields. The Saints' facility is truly uninspiring and I can understand the stories about the players not being happy with the place. I reckon the place is as appealing in its appearance as Ross Lyon's game plan. It's not easy to find either but if a 17 year old schoolgirl can make it out there then I'm sure the players could find it as well. Anyway, I look forward to some good reports from picturesque Casey Fields today while I am left lamenting again in a place and time reminiscent of the lines from that great poem by A.B. "Banjo" Paterson "where a stingy ray of sunlight struggles feebly down between the houses tall, and the foetid air and gritty of the dusty, dirty city through the open window floating, spreads its foulness over all." Enjoy.

Think this is the way I'll do it. Seems to me like there are alot of people who are scoring low to mid 50k's which is very bloody competitive. With this I think we can make some great leagues. The way I think we should do it is also tag them with Melbourne legends. Stynes League, Neeld League etc. The bottom league will be League Bailey

Yep........

We need more quality expression on here Allus Monk, so I plead with you to post more. Romanticism and lyricism go hand in hand with football, and particularly as it relates to those all too emotionally invested observers........US! Heading into the realm of intangible character observation (if not spiritual fantasy), whilst I'm a huge fan of Brent Moloney and Nathan Jones as uncompromising club men, I have never, at any club, over too many decades, seen more obvious captain material than Jack Trengove. Maybe not this year, but just as next thursday is Australia Day, it is a cosmic certainty he will be captain of this football club, a premiership captain, and one of the greatest in our history.

Don't knock them, the training reports were the highlight of our season last year.

Thanks everyone for the reports; please don't stop them coming. It is great having multiple reports so we can compare and get different points of view. Much appreciated. Re Jack Watts: I think 2012 will be a breakout year from him. He showed steady improvement in 2011, and I think with a new coach, bigger body and more dynamic forward line this will be the year that he shows us what he's got.

be nice if Watts has a BOG playing on Hurley (Ess) this year.

I was told early in 2011 by people that have close connections to the board that most on it thought Bailey just wasn't a coach who could take us forward and that he wouldn't last the season. I disagreed, vehemently at the time, but in retrospect, I think it was correct. Bailey may have been given the resources Neeld has at his disposal, but I'm not sure he could manage them effectively. I utmost confidence in Neeld. Looking forward to seeing how it all unfolds.

And that comment depicts exactly why IMO I consider him to have been on a hiding to nothing. August 2011 - Lyon agrees to come on board for a brief period of time to help his mate and his club to perform what's described here as a "rescue mission". If he fails, he's the one who cops the flack. If he succeeds, it had nothing to do with him - he just lucked out because the money was magically there and it was all really the work of others. He therefore deserves no credit at all. That's clearly an unfair appraisal but it's now being spun that way and that's why I make the call about him being on a "hiding to nothing". FWIW, I also agree with Fan on the matter of Cameron Schwab's role in revitalising the club, but then I could never understand the scathing criticism of him from some sectors of the media because all we ever got were vague allegations and innuendo about his role as CEO.

I don't believe Bailey should have coached beyond 2011. I believe the club could have announced he wouldn't be coach in 2012 before the end of the season, started looking for a new coach and Bailey could have been given the option to leave or see out the season. I believe he should have been given the opportunity to resign. I don't believe Garry Lyon should have been involved in any decision making on the Sunday after the Geelong game. I don't believe McLardy had any role interviewing the leadership group to gain their opinions on the MFC management prior to the Geelong game. That's just for a start. Adelaide replaced Craig and did it gracefully. Footscray replaced Eade professionally. We replaced Bailey and looked like the Keystone Cops. We are in a good place now but none of that has to do with the way the Board or Lyon acted in the 48 hours after the Geelong game, it has to do with a lot of other things not the least being the AFL's equalization package which provided us the funds to support the FD and the decisions management and the Board have subsequently made. We've recovered a very poor position. Garry caused some of it and he fixed some of it. He's now left before any of his decisions have been tested. Time will tell if Neeld is the messiah or just another Bailey that Lyon will start potting in a few years time.

Grimes captain. Trengove and Mckenzie vices. They are young but IMO if you're good enough, you're old enough.

daveytrain1: tappysquads: Don't read too much into the training reports people.

Im still in. Total score - 43566 ( but in my defense, I'm a moron)

I'm in as well. I'd be up for ultimate footy again too.

Surely Scully caining it in the time trial doesn't come as a surprise? He's fast and has top notch endurance - remember how he went #1 in the draft a couple of years ago because of this? I know we've all convinced ourselves that he's really no good anyway and he's got the knees of a 97 year old, but...