Disciplinary problems within the team

[ChaserJ 5,157]

Just reading this on 'ology. Hope it's not true, but wouldn't surprise given recent performances/selections.

An interesting conversation

Paradigm Pete Posted on Tue 01/04/08 08:47:19

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29/06/2005

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Having been overseas on business I have only just managed to watch replays of our first two games. Apart from the skill errors, lack of applied pressure etc, what really stood out was the fact that the players looked (for 6 of the 8 quarters) that they were simply going through the motions.

I then rang my brother-in-law in Melbourne (MFC & MCC member) who told me he had heard the following:

* DB really laid down the law to the players after the pre season games. He interviewed each player seperately and gave those that deserved it, the mother of all sprays.

* A number of the players have "rebelled" and one in particular was made an example of (Colin Sylvia).

* Following the Hawthorn debacle, ANOTHER round of one on ones were held and the players copped it again.

* Moloney fired up and walked out during his session. Newton and Bailey had VERY strong words. Two other players also fired back.

* At half time in the Bulldogs game, specific players were given another burst resulting in an "up yours DB" when the game resumed.

Having just watched both games, that made very logical sense.

From my own point of view, should this be true, I don't mind it at all. The coach has drawn a line in the sand and players either toe the line or cross it and leave.

[Brocky 4]

Second-hand info posted on the internet, has about as much credibility as the rubbish that comes out of Grant Thomas's mouth.

[The Backyard Charizard 1,202]

I would normally dismiss this sort of things as absolute crap......

But...... It makes so much sense!!

Moloney was dropped after a very good effort in the first game....

But at the end of the day..... I have faith in Dean Bailey!

A coach runs the players..... Not the other way around!!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

But...... It makes so much sense!!

Moloney was dropped after a very good effort in the first game....

But at the end of the day..... I have faith in Dean Bailey!

A coach runs the players..... Not the other way around!!

From a spectators point of view where possession statistics still seem to rule, Moloney did play a good game. But the problem is his accountability (an issue for some time), commitment to the team plan and adherence to the rules.

The game plan under ND did not require the same level of accountability and it acquiensced selfish players and individual acts. That's why Robbo was dragged repeatedly. As Robert Walls said:

The worst act of selfishness at the weekend belongs with veteran Demon forward Russell Robertson. Time and again, he leapt recklessly in endeavours to take the mark of the year. As he landed on his back, Bulldog defenders rebounded with ridiculous ease. It's tough and frustrating playing in losing teams, but if individuals put themselves above the team, all is lost.

Robbo is going to hate the next 4 weeks. Yze would not like it either and a few more will be added to the list. The survivors will be the ones that have the character and fortitude to commit to a game plan that demands team play at all times.

[The Backyard Charizard 1,202]

And that is why I have faith in Dean Bailey!

I am not even sure I have 100% faith in his gameplan...... But the whole club needs a leader who will take no $hit from anyone!

Gone are the days of being best friends with the coach.....

Go hard or Go home!

[Diablo 1]

Making the rather significant assumption that this is true...

Trevor Grant (the Hun) has hit the nail on the head this morning when he puts much of our current trauma down to Neale Daniher, even if the areas he has identified are probably only about half the problem.

Daniher was mates with the players, and now that somebody advocating a bit of discipline has arrived at the club, they are horrified at actually having to fall in line, and then getting a bake from the coach when they fail to do so. Jesus H. Christ we are a precious bunch.

[JACKATTACK 17]

Second-hand info posted on the internet, has about as much credibility as the rubbish that comes out of Grant Thomas's mouth.

Or Robert Walls' mouth for that matter.

This is the most encouraging post I have read re. DB. I was worried that he was being too friendly and not dishing it out enough.

Stick to your Game plan DB. If there are players who are not willing to stick with the it then get rid of them and draft a new bunch of kids who are. Don't be scared off by a few losses (albeit very large ones) and player egos.

[beelzebub 23,383]

its with some trepidation I add to this thread, for as some alredy summise ..its a little "'woofy".

But..and its a big but I grant you , there is something that gels.

Now I'll put this fairly and squarely in the arena of observational specualtion ( as opposed to argued extrapolation ) but you can place theh template over the scenario of petulant brooding prima doonas over the 'game so far' It does fit. Now granted more than this template will fit the scene so far but given some of the displays of immaturity and lack of focus by some, it gains credibility ( if only a modicum ) as you look more.

Im starting to think this rabble really havent quite worked out what has hit them ( in the guise of one Dean Bailey ). Many of the list have played or been introduced to footy Melbourne style by the preacher. he ha his ways..some good ..some..well.. it's past. It's quite within reason to suppose that a lot of these got used to a particular way. They knew the envelope, they knew what they had to do to get a game and they also knew certainly what some could get away with not to 'not get a start'.

Along comes Bails. he sems a different ilk.. more measured.. deeper in his vision. he also knows that HE will stil be there and not the players if [censored] hits fan . Compare that to previously....where all knew it was Neales head on the block !!

Moving along. we have the 'honeymoon' new ideas are tried but probably for the mostpart many players are trying to sew seeds of good intent..better known blowing smoke, in order to get into the good books with this new bloke. many knowit s aclean slate and some part transgressions wil be forgiven . others know they might get a look in now there's a new boy in town. More to this some know they have snuck through with anohter year or two's money as the team just cant afford to have no one on the park ( not yet ).

So far..so good...everyone is friends.. .all chums.. its all yes yes yes.. kick it to me..kick it to me etc. back slaps and bumtaps ..al lis good in the world.. But not a ball bounced in anger yet.

Come the preseason games. Finally they have to start playing the Bailey way.. Some truly try to get it happening, but possibly are raw and without the polish. Others are finding it hard yacka...as this just isnt the way they have played. Some within this group genuinely try to change..but struggle. Others are up against it. How can they be "them' in this new style ? The seeds of disharmony are sewn.

Some further tomfoolery and where possibly only a good talking to was given ( and all forgiven ) but now there are new rules and past sins if recomitted are now worthy of 'bad-boy' punishments.. Egads...whats this crap ???

Suddenly some players , whose egos and self congratualry evaluations are far ahead of their actual ability are getting irked. What they thought as a faily safe little earner is now being challenged. Even worse for soem I thik they are slowly realising they have been set a trap of sorts. Well really it was a challenge. If you say you can play and you show me glimpses supposedly supporting your claims to ability then go do it for real. If yo cant...then youre full of [censored] !!

If this were a game of chess ..Bailey is about 15 moves ahead of this playing group and some have finally twigged to it and dont liek where they find themselves at all.. They've been found out !! Been exposed as frauds. So what to do now.. well in the brain of the undeveloped silly littel schhemes hatch. Lets repositionthe focus on the coach some think....lets take the heat off of us.. just like with Neale.. Its not us..its the game plan !!

Fair enough for many that having read this much consider it more a precis to a poor paperback. But it fits

What do we KNOW?

Bailey is a very hard nut... known as a thinker and thinks long term.

Bailey inherited a mob , of whom without dount he woulndt have chosen half had he the opportunity.

Some players attempted moves but came unstruck.

Some players put on notice with heads on trade table, no one wanted them.

Some players dont expect to play beyond years end anyway.

No ones terribly sure if the game plan is working or not as most concur that the players seem incapable of following it.

That confidence is at a low

Some players exposed as one or two trick ponies

We also know Bailey isnt going anywhere. Almost everyone to a man knows that most realise it will take a year or two for the 'message' to get through as this is the way now...just look at Geelong, Hawthorn..hell even Doggies. It takes time

And we know that time is running out for some Melbourne players and not all ar at the 'older' end of the scale.

We also know that you can only do so much within the constraints of having X players at any one time.

My freinds we have a wiley ol fox as a coach me thinks. He is sorting the wheat from the chaff at present. He's gicng some the largesse to hang themselves if thats the way they want to go...and to give others the chance to lift their heads and see the future and its their choice by show of action and committment as to whether they want to be part of it.

No wonder Bailey isnt fazed. He knows Melbourne isnt playing his brand of footy yet. He also knows he hasnt got the players he want to play it !! He has actually drawn the line in the sand..but its just far enough away that only the more intelligent ones will see it. He's probably hoping the others dont . It will make his job far easier in getting rid of them.

Sit down.. get settled.. were in for a long haul , make no mistake. Roll on round 7

The idea of petulant players getting niggled and shitty. Stil not 100% convinced..but it does fit !!

[Cards13 9,117]

Just reading this on 'ology. Hope it's not true, but wouldn't surprise given recent performances/selections.

An interesting conversation

Paradigm Pete Posted on Tue 01/04/08 08:47:19

Member #

Date joined

Posts

1677

29/06/2005

412

Having been overseas on business I have only just managed to watch replays of our first two games. Apart from the skill errors, lack of applied pressure etc, what really stood out was the fact that the players looked (for 6 of the 8 quarters) that they were simply going through the motions.

I then rang my brother-in-law in Melbourne (MFC & MCC member) who told me he had heard the following:

* DB really laid down the law to the players after the pre season games. He interviewed each player seperately and gave those that deserved it, the mother of all sprays.

* A number of the players have "rebelled" and one in particular was made an example of (Colin Sylvia).

* Following the Hawthorn debacle, ANOTHER round of one on ones were held and the players copped it again.

* Moloney fired up and walked out during his session. Newton and Bailey had VERY strong words. Two other players also fired back.

* At half time in the Bulldogs game, specific players were given another burst resulting in an "up yours DB" when the game resumed.

Having just watched both games, that made very logical sense.

From my own point of view, should this be true, I don't mind it at all. The coach has drawn a line in the sand and players either toe the line or cross it and leave.

If that is half true then good on DB. Good on him for keeping it all in doors and showing a public face of one team moving forward whilst giving players who need a push along a spray if needed.

[Jaded No More 68,974]

You have to focus on the end result, not the process.

We might be losing by 100 points now, but at least we are taking drastic steps to change the attitude and structure of our football club.

I don't know how much truth is in the original post, but I am certain that Bailey has had words with many of the players and that many of them probably didn't like it a whole lot. It's because they can't take criticism and because they are struggling to change that we're getting belted at the moment.

The beauty of it is that they have until Round 6. After that, they can start packing their bags as far as I'm concerned.

Short term pain for long term gain.

[Diablo 1]

..

Just what I was alluding to bub, but infinitely more insightful, and with a very reasonable conclusion. Terrific Post.

[H.B.K 0]

But a mass exodus at the end of the season will take us where??

Lets say Moloney, Newton, Petterd, Sylvia, McLean, Buckley & Green are all given massive sprays week in and week out. I mean I know I could only take it for so long, before I came to despise the person doing it, ie: boss and would probably look to go and work somewhere else.

[mo64 5,881]

You have to focus on the end result, not the process.We might be losing by 100 points now, but at least we are taking drastic steps to change the attitude and structure of our football club.

I don't know how much truth is in the original post, but I am certain that Bailey has had words with many of the players and that many of them probably didn't like it a whole lot. It's because they can't take criticism and because they are struggling to change that we're getting belted at the moment.

The beauty of it is that they have until Round 6. After that, they can start packing their bags as far as I'm concerned.

Short term pain for long term gain.

Jaded, what's your definition of the role of a coach? And who's to say that there will be long term gain?

Unlike most posters, I can't cop the 100 point beltings, and find it ridiculous that everyone is blaming Neil Daniher. The coach doesn't have to be best friends with the players, but he must earn their respect. If Bailey's idea of discipline is to alienate the players, his tenure will be shortlived.

As a club, we can't afford 4 years in the wilderness, which is how long it will take any coach to reconstruct a list. If our on and off field record remains the same, we will be the no. 1 target by the AFL for relocation.

My take on proceedings is that Bailey's game plan should be based on our players strengths, which will at least allow us to be competitive. If our players are playing competitive football, they will some trade value come year end, if Bailey wants to rebuild the list.

The way he's going, we'll have a firesale or mass walk out come trade week.

[Demon Tragic 0]

Super post bub - Looks like some interesting times ahead. I, for one, will be looking for the players that want to be part of it. Morton & Jones are already two standouts.

[Yze_Magic 3]

Not surw if its true, but I like what I am hearing

Bailey is the hard man we have been waiting for. If these sooks cant take some criticism, then its adios at years end

I just hope he has laid down the law to Bruce and Robertson

[Gouga 570]

This football club is ripping me to pieces.

I applaud any coach that is prepared to take a hard line with our players because they have not been good enough, if they can't see that then they are a lost cause and I believe will be rightly moved on.

Having said that, round 6 is too early in the season to put lines through players names. What sort of year are we going to have if we limit available players to only those who have fallen into line?

Playing kids before they are ready means there is a real possibility that the embarresment we have endured in the first two rounds will continue throughout the whole season. Like mo64 has alluded to (not illuded to, thanks Rhino), the club will not survive.

I don't blame Daniher, I don't blame Bailey. I put the sole responsibility of the future of our club on our players. If only they'd play accordingly. I have no faith that they will.

Like I said this club is ripping me pieces.

[stretch marks 2]

But...... It makes so much sense!!

b]

if I wanted to invent a rumour I could easily fit the pieces together after the event so it would "make so much sense" too

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

This football club is ripping me to pieces.

I applaud any coach that is prepared to take a hard line with our players because they have not been good enough, if they can't see that then they are a lost cause and I believe will be rightly moved on.

Having said that, round 6 is too early in the season to put lines through players names. What sort of year are we going to have if we limit available players to only those who have fallen into line?

Playing kids before they are ready means there is a real possibility that the embarresment we have endured in the first two rounds continuing throughout the whole season. Like mo64 has alluded to (not illuded to, thanks Rhino), the club will not survive.

I don't blame Daniher, I don't blame Bailey. I put the sole responsibility of the future of our club on our players. If only they'd play accordingly. I have no faith that they will.

Like I said this club is ripping me pieces.

Its not too early to start earmarking players that wont make it under the new game plan. Already one or two have already shown that they cannot follow instructions and are not accountable. Indeed opinions and assessments are being moulded already. DB needs to identify which parts of the list are going to be able to adapt to the plan and those that cannot. He needs to focus on those who will for the rest of the season and get what value he can from the rest.

Its not the dummy spit of frustrated players that you need to focus on but what they do on the field to address it.

After 10 years predominantly playing a mainly kicking style of game plan, DB is instructing his players how to play in the modern game. Some will get it, some will take some time and there will be some that dont get it all and will either be traded, retired or delisted. And if they cant apply these principles at MFC what value will they be to other Clubs and they wont find solace elsewhere.

When we cleared out the depth and deadwood, we were always exposed to playing the younger kids. But I believe we would get more out of instilling new principles into Morton that keep pedalling NQRs like Godfrey.

You are right about where the future of the Club is. Its in the hands of the players. Its a test of individual character that will help identify those that you can build a team plan around against those who want to fall back on old habits that were accommodated. Too many supporters are being ruffled by the media noise and not seeing what is actually happening.

By the way Gouga... its embarrassment not embarresment..just thought I'd save you a little.

[Gouga 570]

Too many supporters are being ruffled by the media noise and not seeing what is actually happening.

The quality and quantity of media coverage the AFL gets is severly out of proportion.

By the way Gouga... its embarrassment not embarresment..just thought I'd save you a little.

Geez, might have to start putting my posts through spell check!

[Bay Riffin 1,480]

ChaserJ, how does you brother in law know that. Being a member does not mean you know what happens behind the scenes.

Need some proof please.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

The quality and quantity of media coverage the AFL gets is severly out of proportion.

Its goes hand in hand with the $$$ of the TV rights. We need to get use to it but see for what it is. Articles like Trevor Grant's smacks of the "me tooism" that characterises ordinary journos. Not a scintilla of insight or analysis.

Geez, might have to start putting my posts through spell check!

Likewise

[occo 2]

The worst act of selfishness at the weekend belongs with veteran Demon forward Russell Robertson. Time and again, he leapt recklessly in endeavours to take the mark of the year. As he landed on his back, Bulldog defenders rebounded with ridiculous ease. It's tough and frustrating playing in losing teams, but if individuals put themselves above the team, all is lost.

I watched this too not just once but twice in the first few minutes. Robbo is a selfish pig and watching him smiling whilst talking to Robert Murphy i couldnt have been angrier. Drop him now. He will carve up Sandringham and robbo is now my most hated footballer in the afl, no joke

[Gouga 570]

Its goes hand in hand with the $$$ of the TV rights. We need to get use to it but see for what it is. Articles like Trevor Grant's smacks of the "me tooism" that characterises ordinary journos. Not a scintilla of insight or analysis.

Not to mention Craig 'they're entitled to their opinion' Hutchinson who is the lowest of the low when it comes to exploiting a club/coach/player for a story, but some how has the nerve to criticise other journalists at every opportunity?

[Gouga 570]

The worst act of selfishness at the weekend belongs with veteran Demon forward Russell Robertson. Time and again, he leapt recklessly in endeavours to take the mark of the year. As he landed on his back, Bulldog defenders rebounded with ridiculous ease. It's tough and frustrating playing in losing teams, but if individuals put themselves above the team, all is lost.

I have been saying this for the last couple of years. Constantly takes himself out of the contest at the expense of his teamates. Selfish, no other word for it.

[Dee*ceiving 1,690]

I don't wish to add credibility to unsubstantiated rumours and my post and opinoun will not be capable of doing so.

I am all for DBs seemingly hard line approach, the culture at the club needs a massive overhaul and he is doing it the best way he knows how with assistance and guidance from Gardener, Connolly and shortly a new CEO.

However I wish to bring up the very real concern that this club may not see out 2 years of thrashings and emabarrassment to finally relish in DBs renewed culture and game plan with the club in its current form.

I am not sure what the answer is but don't be fooled into the thinking that short term pain in the form of 100 point losses wil bring long term gain. For a Collingwood, Essendon or Richmond that might be the case. But for a club like Melbourne it might be writing its own epitaph.