It is time to look forward

[Number 2 11]

Hi all, it has been a long time since I have posted. The old Deecapitator has been a tad busy but over the next couple of weeks I will try to be a more visible presence on Demonland.

I think it is time for us to forget the coaching merry-go-round and start making some realistic suggestions about what moves our footy club needs to make to go forward. Our new coach will shake up the list if he is the right person and I have confidence the MFC will get the right person.

In my opinion our list needs an injection of some talented height, some excitement, more youth and some players with experience that are around the 22-24 age bracket. Unfortunately the time of certain Melbourne favourites is gone and we need to be prepared to say good-bye for the betterment of the team.

I have been able to split this season’s list into 4 categories so our list can be evaluated. These categories are youth, core, veterans and other.

Youth:

Bartram

Bate

Buckley

Dunn

Frawley

Garland

Hayes

Jones

Newton

Petterd

Core:

Bell

Carroll

Davey

Green

P.Johnson

McLean

Moloney

Rivers

Robertson

Sylvia

Wheatley

Whelan

Veterans:

McDonald

Neitz

Pickett

Others:

Bizzell, Bode, Brown, Bruce*, Ferguson*, Godfrey, Holland, Hughes, Jamar*, C.Johnson*, Johnstone*, Miller*, Neaves, Neville, Ward, Warnock, Weetra, White*, Yze

Our Veterans:

Neitz, McDonald & Pickett.

Neitz should be a permanent forward pocket, Byron will hopefully be returned with a pashion to play and I hope we can use him across half back & Junior well he is a warrior so I see him being used as a rotation through the midfield so his career is prolonged.

Our Youth and our Core speak for themselves.

Players on the other list that I have indicated with an asterisk could attract interest from other clubs. Some will question the place of a few on this list, but it is merely my opinion.

So from the asterisk players I think the following could be realistic trades that could improve the depth of our list and increase our chances form premiership success in the near future.

I am proposing the following:

Cameron Bruce, Chris Johnson & 3rd Round Draft Pick – Fremantle

Robert Warnock, Jeff Farmer & 2nd Round Pick – Melbourne

Melbourne get our Ruckman for the next 10 years and a life member returns to enhance our marketability, Flash & the Wiz… need we say more?

Johnstone & 5th Round Draft Pick – Essendon

2nd Round Draft Pick – Melbourne

I don’t like the trade but it depends on who we get with the 2nd round pick.

Miller – Brisbane

4th Round Pick – Melbourne

Another draft pick.

White – Collingwood

Ryan Cook & 3rd Draft Pick – Melbourne

Our 2nd round draft pick should be used for a player around 24 that should be a starter.

Jamar and Ferguson should be traded if possible:

Ins:

R.Warnock, J.Farmer, R.Cook and draft picks.

Outs:

Bruce, C.Johnson, Johnstone, Miller & White

Draft Selections:

1st Round, Priority 2nd Round, 2nd Round Freo, 2nd Round Ess, 3rd Round Coll, 4th Round, 4th Round Bris, 5th Round & 6th Round.

9 Draft selections with 7 in the first 4 rounds.

This is largely the Hawthorn model of using the draft to redevelop but we have more strength in our youth/core already.

Is this the solution? Is this the way forward?

Do we need to say good-bye to favourites like Bruce, Johnstone, White & Miller?

Just food for thought, I had some time on my hands so I thought I’d type what I was thinking.

[Demons 32 235]

Cameron Bruce, Chris Johnson & 3rd Round Draft Pick – Fremantle

Robert Warnock, Jeff Farmer & 2nd Round Pick – Melbourne (INSANE - Bruce would leave, win a brownlow and we would look stupid. Farmer is older now and a livewire. Warnock, might be a good ruckman, key word might.

Johnstone & 5th Round Draft Pick – Essendon

2nd Round Draft Pick – Melbourne (Got to be joking right?)

Miller – Brisbane

4th Round Pick – Melbourne (he is worth keeping around for one more year, new coach may re-ignite him)

White – Collingwood

Ryan Cook & 3rd Draft Pick – Melbourne (Im for trading White, but if you trade him to a contender then we could get more, this deal is not good for Melbourne.)

[deanox 8,740]

ive got no problem trading anyone, including bruce, green or white, but we must get the right value, and i would be looking for first round picks and other early 2nd round picks rather than 3rd and 4th round picks.

if we decide to go the hawthorn trade route we need our first round pick, another late first round pick, the priority 2nd round, our 2nd round, and perhaps a 3rd late second round pick, 5 in the first 2 rounds, 5 of the best 35 players in the draft.

i would have no aversions to us doing this at all...

[deesrock 0]

As much as I was a massive fan of Jeff Farmer, I really think he has bought about his own downfall. He is hardly the type of person we want hanging around with so much talented youth on our list, is he?

[mauriesy 6,830]

I am not in favour of trading experienced mid-age players like Bruce, Green or Johnstone. If the club was a bit stronger, then maybe it is feasible, but right now the list is too polarised between a lot of old bodies and a lot of young, inexperienced ones. There are far lesser contributors, in terms of energy, commitment and skill, to remove from the list than these skilled core players.

In the next two years, we do need a clean-out of "dead wood": Neville, Yze (retire), Pickett, Ward, Ferguson, Brown, Jamar, Bizzell, Holland, Miller and Godfrey. By the end of 2008 at the latest, we will also see the retirement of McDonald, Neitz, White, and possibly Whelan and Robertson. There may be other players (e.g Chris Johnson?) who just don't make it.

That's up to 17 players, and if you also got rid of Green, Johnstone and Bruce, there'd be about 35 players on the list with less than 80 games experience (including presumably up to 20 recent draft picks!) and the oldest players would be Nathan Carroll and Paul Wheatley!

So I just don't think we're in the position to also go for massive trades. We do need a list revolution, but not a total demolition. The core of young players will at least need a few older heads left around them.

[Freak 100]

I like ur thinking..but I think we would get more from White given that he may be the difference between a flag and no flag for clubs like west coast who would appreciate a great ruckman with Cox.

I would go:

Green- Symes + 3rd round draft pick

bruce + Johnstone for Mitchell Clark + 5th round draft pick

White- 1st round draft pick from Geelong.

[sylvinator 96]

silly to trade bruce, green on johnstone for less than a 1st rounder. a 2nd rounder is a complete gamble in this years draft and we could potentially be swapping our most skllful player (whos still only 27yrs old) for some 17 yr old who might come good, might not. REDICULOUS!

I've suggested these 2 already but...

Cameron Wood for Brad Miller and pick 20

Ryan Murphey for pick 18.

That's a 10 yr A-grade ruckmna and a future FF replacement for neitz and Murphey is proper FF key position height (196cm).

Other players to look at are Prissmall and Byrnes from Geelong.

White cannot be traded. hes too important and at 30 yrs old wont hold much market value.

We should 100% look at trading Bruce if we can get a pick around pick 8-12. any lower than a 1st round pick would be silly and would rather keep him

[Demons 32 235]

bruce + Johnstone for Mitchell Clark + 5th round draft pick (You have lost your head, go find it then come back and comment again)

[Jarka 767]

Obviously you need to give up quality to get quality, with that in mind I'd be willing to part with White, Robertson, Bruce or TJ. But only if the deal was a good one for us.

[jacey 333]

I like ur thinking..but I think we would get more from White given that he may be the difference between a flag and no flag for clubs like west coast who would appreciate a great ruckman with Cox.

I would go:

Green- Symes + 3rd round draft pick

bruce + Johnstone for Mitchell Clark + 5th round draft pick

White- 1st round draft pick from Geelong.

White is worthless come trade time.

I wanted to traded White the last 2-3 years where clubs like St Kilda, Sydney, WB would have given up their first round draft pick for him.

Everyone can see him struggling against bigger ruckmen and with his age, his values gone.

Bruce n Johnstone will still attract mid - low first round draft picks. Do the deal for one of them.

Green to stay DEF cause we won't get better then 2nd round draft pick.

Symes, Byrnes, Woods would be good pick ups.

[classy dees 42]

Cameron Bruce, Chris Johnson & 3rd Round Draft Pick – Fremantle

Robert Warnock, Jeff Farmer & 2nd Round Pick – Melbourne

Melbourne get our Ruckman for the next 10 years and a life member returns to enhance our marketability, Flash & the Wiz… need we say more?

Johnstone & 5th Round Draft Pick – Essendon

2nd Round Draft Pick – Melbourne

talk about shooting yourself in the foot. giving up arguably our best two players for 2 second round picks, jeff farmer (a lunatic) and youngster who'll take 3-4 years to mature.

Green- Symes + 3rd round draft pick

bruce + Johnstone for Mitchell Clark + 5th round draft pick

White- 1st round draft pick from Geelong.

these are 3 of THE DUMBEST trades in history. it gives me great pleasure at these times to know that CAC is in charge of recruiting/trading and not people who post here.

getting rid of green, bruce and TJ, would leave this club on its knees. great youth, fast ageing veterans and no one in between.

why would geelong want white? they already have 3 ruckmen who are all of 1st team quality.

most of this is moot because a) trades just dont happen anymore, B) are largely overrated, and B) this club isn't trigger happy, but some of these suggestions are completely ridiculous.

[Freak 100]

i'm not sure if you have seen Mitchell Clark play before...but he would have to be the best young key position forward/ruck in the competition and I don't even think brisbane would do that deal. He is a gun.

[Demons 32 235]

Ryan Murphey for pick 18.

That's a 10 yr A-grade ruckmna and a future FF replacement for neitz and Murphey is proper FF key position height (196cm).

BEST IDEA EVER

[mick2007 0]

Johnstone would be the player i would trade if he could attract something worthwhile

[re draft molan 1]

...quote]

Mmmmm lots of free time!

[Number 2 11]

haha, so true Molan.

Sorry I offended so many.

In my eyes the Freo trade would work and we certainly overrate the ability/worth of Travis Johnstone.

Just so everyone is aware, I do not support the trading of Brad Green, that is why he is in my core list.

Those who have seen Rob Warnock play would realise what potential he has, he is the answer to the dominance of interstate ruckmen.

[Coxy 0]

haha, so true Molan.

Sorry I offended so many.

In my eyes the Freo trade would work and we certainly overrate the ability/worth of Travis Johnstone.

Just so everyone is aware, I do not support the trading of Brad Green, that is why he is in my core list.

Those who have seen Rob Warnock play would realise what potential he has, he is the answer to the dominance of interstate ruckmen.

While I agree with your Warnock trade I don't see freo going for it, not sure they have enough rucking depth to loose a future star?

[AzzKikA 2,371]

If TJ gets over this acciles injury and preforms well keep him if not get rid of him. And please to him from doing the kicking in after a behind is scored.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

haha, so true Molan.

Sorry I offended so many.

In my eyes the Freo trade would work and we certainly overrate the ability/worth of Travis Johnstone.

Just so everyone is aware, I do not support the trading of Brad Green, that is why he is in my core list.

Those who have seen Rob Warnock play would realise what potential he has, he is the answer to the dominance of interstate ruckmen.

Well done on your efforts though I beg to differ with your strategy.

Your lists needs to consider your delists as well as trading is much overrated and misunderstood process.

FWIW, your deal with Freo is a stinker for them. They give up Warnock (worth a 1st round pick), Farmer (a matchwinner with problems) and their second round pick for Bruce (a 28yo utility who has never delivered on his talent and whose disposal is flaky) CJ (a NQR player who cant cut it in a bottom team and is worthless) and a third round pick. This would outrank the Jonathan hay deal as totally poor value for Freo.

Davey is already a problem for MFC with his on field immaturity and underperformance. Why oh why do we want to take on another player whose got core problems and is exactly the profile of person at 30 we dont want. Farmer offers us nothing as a marketing plus. He was heavily and wrongly booed by all in the local derby. We dont want him.

Johnson is worth a 2nd round pick to side looking to challenge and lack the finishing polish. Its not Essendon.

Is there any reason why Bris Lions would want Miller other than he came from there?

Why would Geelong recuit White when they have Ottens, Blake and King?

Why is Brad Green any more core than Bruce? Green wont command a price. IMO TJ and Robbo are the two players who might offer something?

The dominance of the interstate ruckman. Where???? Last I saw Geelong were clearly on top and it has something to do with the midfield. Ruckman are important but their criticality is overrated.

[titan_uranus 22,673]

I think that we should offer Geelong something for Wojcinski - would add much needed pace and skill to the midfield/half back flank. I also think a draft pick to Fremantle for Murphy would be good.

[Freak 100]

Rhino Richards. Are you joking? 'Why would Geelong want White when they have Ottens, Blake and King?'. Hmm lets see...Ottens spends a lot of time up forward, Blake is crap and King will probably never get another game as he is over the hill.

[Gorgoroth 12,337]

Not replying tot he actual trades put up, but murphy from freo and blake from geelong might be worth chasing, blake i think will fall out of the side come finals time if ottens and king stay fit and murphy has been give the arse since taz went to freo.

Don't know what you would offer for them though, I'd like to keep Green , TJ and bruce and i dare say white would not get us much.

[dee-luded 2,958]

haha, so true Molan.

Sorry I offended so many.

In my eyes the Freo trade would work and we certainly overrate the ability/worth of Travis Johnstone.

Just so everyone is aware, I do not support the trading of Brad Green, that is why he is in my core list.

Those who have seen Rob Warnock play would realise what potential he has, he is the answer to the dominance of interstate ruckmen.

I agree with most of your thinking/strategy, however I think we differ with the timeframe. You seem to think that we can rebound next year to top 6 with the right player structures, I don't. So I would like to use your trade strategies but to recruit 2/3 first round kids then 2 hard head 26/27 year olds in the mould of what rigoni/ jjohnson used to be.

I believe we need to top up the list both this draft '07 & play youth next year as a development year finishing around 11th/12th, & doing the final list restructure in the '08 draft & trade. This I believe, in the hands of a Coach who actually recognises REAL football talent, can go on to a flag.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Rhino Richards. Are you joking? 'Why would Geelong want White when they have Ottens, Blake and King?'. Hmm lets see...Ottens spends a lot of time up forward, Blake is crap and King will probably never get another game as he is over the hill.

And that makes it four ordinary ruckman with White. Hence my question. Where does White fit it on any tilt at a flag or a back to back? His finals record is not stellar either.

84.....Blake cant kick is that important?

[Gorgoroth 12,337]

Neither can Jamar but at least Blake can get the ball to the on ballers, from what i have seen (not a massive amount i must say) i have thought he was decent.