Team vs. Blues

[Rogue 585]

How lucky is Nathan Brown?

Tell me about it!

Btw thanks - didn't notice the 1K

You're not far behind =)

[Pinball Wizard 272]

Tell me about it!

Btw thanks - didn't notice the 1K

You're not far behind =)

Riley said Byron would play VFL, there's no match up for Benny and Bucks has had an article written about him in the paper. That suggests to me that the bench will be:-

(1) PJ - back up ruckman,

(2) Juice - key forward

(3) Bucks - medium/midfielder

(4) Dunn or Frawley depending on whether n extr forward or a defender is needed. With no Fevol in the Carlton team we might take the attacking option o I'll go for Dunn.

[deanox 8,701]

BTW, with Neita and Green both out, who captains the side?

Junior will probably get the nod given he played a great game last week, but I'd like to see McLean get another go before Neita returns (if he returns this year).

why not give it to newton? he is the messiah after all :D :D :D

[Jaded No More 58,506]

why not give it to newton? he is the messiah after all :D :D :D

Damn straight!

To be honest, on most current form, only Junior deserves it.

McLean has had an ordinary two weeks, and Bruce... well... he can't kick *ducks*.

The problem is, we are not moving forward if we let Junior captain.

We need to use the opportunity while Neita is recovering from multiple injuries to test the leadership water.

[jacey 333]

Damn straight!

To be honest, on most current form, only Junior deserves it.

McLean has had an ordinary two weeks, and Bruce... well... he can't kick *ducks*.

The problem is, we are not moving forward if we let Junior captain.

We need to use the opportunity while Neita is recovering from multiple injuries to test the leadership water.

stuff the leadership group. give it to robbo.

[warren dean 193]

stuff the leadership group. give it to robbo.

What is is about our club and leaders? We have had three very long term captains in the last 25 years (Flower, Lyon and Neitz) as well as a couple of relative short termers (Greg Healy and Viney) yet it seems, as a whole, we have lacked on field leadership throughout most of that time, and I say that with no disrespect to those captains, who have all been excellent servants of the club. The very best teams seem to have a number of leaders - Swans, Bombers and Hawks in the '80's, Tigers of the '70's, North in the '70's and '90's. Maybe Grant Thomas was onto something! For mine, if Brock is the natural long term successor then he might as well start auditioning for it now!

[deanox 8,701]

What is is about our club and leaders? We have had three very long term captains in the last 25 years (Flower, Lyon and Neitz) as well as a couple of relative short termers (Greg Healy and Viney) yet it seems, as a whole, we have lacked on field leadership throughout most of that time, and I say that with no disrespect to those captains, who have all been excellent servants of the club. The very best teams seem to have a number of leaders - Swans, Bombers and Hawks in the '80's, Tigers of the '70's, North in the '70's and '90's. Maybe Grant Thomas was onto something! For mine, if Brock is the natural long term successor then he might as well start auditioning for it now!

a very good point, and one that i believe has been underestimated. leading 22 men onto the field requires more than one player...and you also need a number of players who can do it while performing. brad miller has it no doubt, but he hasnt been able to back it up with performances. if nathan brown was as good as cameron bruce he would be a natural on field leader, but as he isnt he gets the vote for great bloke who tries hard. our "leaders" go missing when we are struggling. but how do we fix this? do we need to draft leaders? (didnt work with miller). i think its a development thing as much as its a characteristic. yes some players have it and some don't. but some players need to have it brought out it them, and i think we've struggled in this area of late.

[Gouga 512]

I have no problem with Bizzell, Brown, Godfrey and Ward in the team this week.

We do need some experience and these blokes all have it.

Like most I reckon Dunn, Holland and Pickett will miss. Dunn will get a chance in the next couple weeks. Not sure bout Holland or Pickett.

Before the season is over I'd like to see Ferguson, Garland, Moloney and Warnock get another crack.

I'd line the team up...

B: Bizzell, Carroll, Ward

HB: Buckley, Frawley, C Johnson

C: Bruce, McDonald, Wheatley

HF: Bate, Miller, Sylvia

F: Davey, Newton, Robertson

FOLL: White, Jones, McLean

I/C: Brown, Godfrey, P Johnson, Petterd

Throw Frawley on Waite and play Davey forward!

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,321]

RE - Chris Johnson

Interesting that as soon as Daniher leaves, Riley has no hesitation in bringing CJ into the starting 18.

He must perform this week or it will be effectively be the end of his AFL career. IMO CJ has been a major disapointment this year. Others would argue that he never got the opportunity, but how could you seriously play him on his early season form?

[Gouga 512]

I agree BBP. He hasn't shown much. But he is worth persisting with in my opinion.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,321]

But he is worth persisting with in my opinion.

I reluctantly thought that last year and after this years NAB Cup. Then I changed my mind after round 5 V Sydney when I stramped his papers. Three or four below par performances from CJ, when we were crying out for contributions in an injury riddled start to the season.

[Little Goffy 12,711]

Could well be seeing:

2006: Frawley Petterd

2005: Jones, Buckley

2004: Bate, Dunn, Newton

2003: Sylvia, McLean, C.Johnson

That's be good!

Don't forget Davey 2003 Rookie.

It's a shame Bartram is out.

Must be something like 80% of last few years draftees playing in that scenario. Who's missing?

Neville - I haven't heard anyone get excited about him yet

Garland - The standard message seems to be 'good prospect, but don't expect instant results'

Warnock - Seems to get about a 50/50 split of people who think he'll either just barely make it, or just barely wont.

Weetra - I know nothing.

Neaves - Most people seem to expect he'll be promoted from the rookie list eventually.

Then there are a couple of other rookies who aren't write offs - like Bode and Hughes.

Phenomenal stuff.

[Kit Walker 207]

Riley said Byron would play VFL, there's no match up for Benny and Bucks has had an article written about him in the paper. That suggests to me that the bench will be:-

(1) PJ - back up ruckman,

(2) Juice - key forward

(3) Bucks - medium/midfielder

(4) Dunn or Frawley depending on whether n extr forward or a defender is needed. With no Fevol in the Carlton team we might take the attacking option o I'll go for Dunn.

I agree with all of that. Losing TJ and Green means we are down two attacking midfielders so Dunn would be a more logical choice as he's capable of playing off a wing as well.

I'd like Frawley to play a full game at Sandringham, mostly because he hasn't had that sort of game time this season at AFL or VFL level since he was injured pre-season. Even in this very much weakened side, he won't get it this weekend against Carlton if he's selected.

[Jaded No More 58,506]

I agree BBP. He hasn't shown much. But he is worth persisting with in my opinion.

CJ has all the right elements to make it, at least skills wise.

IMO his biggest problem is confidence. Much like Bell and Carroll, who spent a lot of time in the obscurity of Sandy (apologies to the mighty Zebras), all he needs is the backing of the coach to say "you get the rest of the year, go play and prove to me you deserve to be here. Don't worry if you make mistakes".

Don't understimate the value of feeling like you belong.

CJ must be terrified of stuffing up, and being dropped. How many times did Bell get caught with the footy last year, and people were screaming that he had no awareness and should be banished from senior footy.

Like Bell, CJ needs to let the fear of failure go and start to believe that there is a reason why he got drafted.

It must be hard seeing players like Sylvia who got drafted alongside him, get so many opportunities.

If he has the backing of the footy department, and their belief, he'll make it.

[Gorgoroth 12,331]

Agree, he always seemed to be on edge, he could play 2 good games then 1 average and bang would be dropped.

I hope CJ can make a goo impression in the coming weeks.

[Rogue 585]

Agree, he always seemed to be on edge

For sure - CJ was always the fall guy.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Agree, he always seemed to be on edge, he could play 2 good games then 1 average and bang would be dropped.

He forgot to put in the two good games.

He needs to perform.

For sure - CJ was always the fall guy.

You always are if you dont perform.

[Jaded No More 58,506]

Yes he does need to perform Rhino, but not every player comes in and dominates straight away.

He has never been given a meaningful stretch of games to get comfortable and show his ability.

Most others have, despite showing as much (or as little if you like) as CJ, and many have come good.

Patience is a virtue we don't always seem to possess.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Yes he does need to perform Rhino, but not every player comes in and dominates straight away.

He has never been given a meaningful stretch of games to get comfortable and show his ability.

Most others have, despite showing as much (or as little if you like) as CJ, and many have come good.

Patience is a virtue we don't always seem to possess.

Who said anything about domination?

Competency and capability at this level is all that is asked.

He has not delivered to date. The ball is in his court to do so. He has got nine games left. Your serve Chris

MFC have been patient with other players like Bell, Sylvia and Miller (overly IMO) who have at least given something to at least show promise to selector. CJ has not delivered and lookec overwhelmed. he has not justified a meaningful stretch of games

I am a fan of CJs and have been disappointed with his return since the pre season. But you earn your stripes in this caper.

[beelzebub 22,244]

I would concur with Rhino that CJ's form hass been , well....wobbly !!. Quite posibly a good stretch plaing most if not all of the remaining games may allow him to take the next step. I hope he does , otherwise might as well chuck him on the Miller pile. its all very well to have "potential' , totally useless if never realised !!

and yes Id rather frosty's game time was utilsed by an up and comer for the most part.

[Rogue 585]

He forgot to put in the two good games.

He needs to perform.

You always are if you dont perform.

Before the Essendon match Sylvia's run of three games netted him ~9 possessions p/game and he'd kicked zilch, playing predominantly as a forward. His greatest output was the 3.3 tackles p/game. There are other stretches where IMO he looked far worse, but I'd read the stats recently so I'm going with this one =)

This is just one example of a kid being shown some faith. If I went back across the last couple of years I'm sure I could find other examples.

Countless AFL players have said they struggled until they felt they were shown some faith and finally felt like they belonged, as opposed to fearing for their spot every game. Coming in and out of the team like a yo-yo is going to make it tough for many players to fulfill their potential IMO.

[Jaded No More 58,506]

This is just one example of a kid being shown some faith. If I went back across the last couple of years I'm sure I could find other examples.

Yeah, and you can bet that if CJ was picked up at #3, he'd be getting equal treatment to Sylvia because the club would feel compelled to prove their draft selection was correct.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Yeah, and you can bet that if CJ was picked up at #3, he'd be getting equal treatment to Sylvia because the club would feel compelled to prove their draft selection was correct.

Not with the performances he has shown and also given the fact the Sylvia has been on restricted development program with OP.

The bottom line is that he needs to perform and show something at AFL level.

[warren dean 193]

Not with the performances he has shown and also given the fact the Sylvia has been on restricted development program with OP.

The bottom line is that he needs to perform and show something at AFL level.

Couldn't agree more. Games at AFL level should not be given away - they need to be earnt. I know it's a different era, but what the hell, it's heritage round so I'll bring it up anyway. Blokes like Michael Tuck, Gary O'Donnell etc became great players after earning their senior game time through strong, consistent performances over a long period of time at the level below the best. I know all the arguments about smaller lists etc, but can't help but wonder if blokes get games too easily nowadays. There will always appear to be blokes who are out of favour with certain coaches (I always thought Chris Lamb got a rough deal), but seriously, CJ hasn't really been a particularly consistent performer at Sandy, whereas everytime Sylvia plays there he looks well above the standard!

[davey_magik 1]

It's a good question on CJ.

For example I think in 2004-2005 Miller was getting games every week just about no matter how he played, and it was because the club wanted to develop him as a CHF.

I know CHF is the most important position on the ground and having a decent one is vital, but I don't think CJ has been given that chance. I remember he played very well against WCE at WCE last year and I'm unsure on this but he may have backed it up against St.Kilda with another decent game, and then had a few average games and was given the boot.

He was never given a hell of a lot of game time (I watched the 2006 QB again today and he played about a third of the game) and that is going to hurt you especially when you're a flanker/wingman player like CJ is.

I'd like them to give him the rest of the year to show he should be at the club in 2008, after all I love Sylvia and think Miller still may have a future but they were given long stretches in the seniors without really playing that well at times.

Can't hurt if we let him play out the year.