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Recruiting - where did it all go wrong

spirit of norm smith
spirit of norm smith
in Melbourne Demons

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59 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

MaCrae’s knock is his disposal, I’m not sure we could justify another poor disposer.

and his age, closing in on 31

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    3 minutes ago, 13thFlagIsComing said:

    I always believe that the players that win you premierships aren't the ones that play in a premiership.

    Go on...

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    22 hours ago, Superunknown said:

    Lamb can go

    Sacrificially?? Yep.. I blame Jim Caldwell for paying 18 Grand for Diamond Jim Tillbrook! Nice fella played against him in Ammos once or twice, SHEEEEEIT I thought I could kick a Ross Faulkner, till I saw him Roost the footy!

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    39 minutes ago, Sesto said:

    I agree with the view that our recruiting of mature players since the flag has been rubbish.

    Something I haven’t seen mentioned is the fact that we have the league’s worst facilities. A shed and a fairly scruffy oval in the city and a barely AFL standard facility out in the boonies.

    I’m sure it plays into players decision making, particularly if they are in demand and have some choice.

    Spot on the mature players very poor, facilities could be another failure considering hawks are moving into their second home, but Houston highlighted obvious issues & no doubt these culture have been lingering and may have impacted on other potentials!

    Edited by Demonsone

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    5 minutes ago, picket fence said:

    Sacrificially?? Yep.. I blame Jim Caldwell for paying 18 Grand for Diamond Jim Tillbrook! Nice fella played against him in Ammos once or twice, SHEEEEEIT I thought I could kick a Ross Faulkner, till I saw him Roost the footy!

    You called?

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    Ha

    29 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

    Spot on the mature players very poor, facilities could be another failure considering hawks are moving into their second home, but Houston highlighted obvious issues & no doubt these culture have been lingering and may have impacted on other potentials!

    We should grab Waverley

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    22 hours ago, Greg Schneider said:

    Ah yes hit the draft when you’re in a premiership window, re build the forward line through the draft when you’re in a premiership window, genius

    Sure but who was on the market, there is only a dozen key fwds worth there salt in the afl and none have been gettable. Look round nearly all key fwds need to be drafted only 2 high profile ones have changed clubs in the last 10 years and at huge cost to the clubs the got them. Probably the big miss was not getting hogan back but he was a gamble for gws and I dont think he left us on the best terms

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    21 hours ago, bing181 said:

    Reasons.

    Because we had arguably the best midfield in the league and he'd have to go to the back of the queue. Let's not forget that we even had Gus who had come third in the Brownlow as a midfielder but who couldn't get a run on-ball.

    Amon knew that at Hawthorn he'd get regular first-team games as a mid.

    Correct, players want to play as many games as they can. ideally in their preferred position. Like Howe being told he'll be a forward at the pies as part of his move.

    Edited by darkhorse72

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    33 minutes ago, Demonsone said:

    Spot on the mature players very poor, facilities could be another failure considering hawks are moving into their second home, but Houston highlighted obvious issues & no doubt these culture have been lingering and may have impacted on other potentials!

    Houston in retrospect would have been a mistake imagine been down the bottom and not even having drafted Langford and Lindsay

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    2 hours ago, goodwindees said:

    Your Point 3 is exactly what I’m saying.

    This is no knock on Kossie Pickett, Tholstrup & Xavier Lindsay, but the issue is that when you end up giving so many reasonable draft picks to pick up just 3 players, you are sacrificing depth as well as denying yourself the option of selecting a number of the the type of young players that you need to invest in to develop a well balanced list.

    It also really hurts your depth when one of those players is so often suspended, and Tholstrup is suffering a medium term injury.

    Consider that in 2025 Kossie has played once and Tholstrup not at all. That’s effectively no return for all those Kossie & Tholstrup picks.

    @goodwindees seeing you often have good mail, what’s the mood like behind the scenes with the on ball group.

    Seems like they are very resistant to change

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    8 hours ago, adonski said:

    Jordon hasn't improved at all since going to Sydney, he's simply getting a game where at Melbourne he wasn't (consistently)

    Jordon is no superstar but has all the things Sparrow lacks like footy IQ and decision making. Goody prioritising Sparrow over Jordon was always a really bad sign for me and made it pretty clear Goodwin was a bad judge who valued power and size over being a good footballer

    jordon has improved immeasurably since he was at the mfc

    he and sparrow were on a par, with the latter slightly more damaging as a rotation mid and in front of goal too

    jj's finals' performances were really poor in 2023 as well and his disposal was a liability - he didn't win his own ball

    turning him into a tagger has been a fantastic tactical move

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    14 minutes ago, Garbo said:

    Sure but who was on the market, there is only a dozen key fwds worth there salt in the afl and none have been gettable. Look round nearly all key fwds need to be drafted only 2 high profile ones have changed clubs in the last 10 years and at huge cost to the clubs the got them. Probably the big miss was not getting hogan back but he was a gamble for gws and I dont think he left us on the best terms

    ben brown was preferred to hogan from a performance and cultural fit perspective and helped us win a premiership

    we tried for lynch from the tigs and he said no, elected to stay there and be a part of the rebuild - probably justifiably given that he came in as a free agent during their ascendancy

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    14 hours ago, goodwindees said:

    Well, the current evidence is that it isn’t working. No depth, and the list lacks balance due to a severe lack of quick, skilful, athletic types.

    There is no apparent heir to Max, and no big young forward like a Treacy from Fremantle & Ollie Lord from PA who are just two examples that were taken with late picks.

    You won’t be a genuine top 4 team with a team of 6 A Graders and a bunch of C Graders and NQR’s.

    Agree.

    It wasn’t a matter of quantity over quality as another poster said, it was foregoing using picks on recycled nqr players from other clubs and instead taking more players in drafts who had the chance to develop and become good players. The cattle as you could call them.

    Targeting specific needs players here and there is fine, but not at the detriment of losing fast skilful youth.

    Obviously you can’t fill a team with top 20 picks, but that is where cunning list management comes in. What picks were Max, Tom Mac, Rivers, McVee, etc.

    Obviously later picks have a statistically lower success rate and that is where you have to be smart in what you do.

    I banged on here on DL relentlessly to get Treacy and/or Meek ( who weren’t regular Freo players at that stage ) added to the LJ deal. Maybe it wasn’t possible but i would love to know if we tried. Many of us wanted to keep JJ and Bedford instead of others.

    JT and TL have been good generally, but they have room for improvement as well.

    Just as a side note, Langford was on the handball on the Sunday Footy Show and on his wrong hand missed the entire target twice and scored 14 in 6 handballs. He looked totally embarrassed. He will be a good player, but absolutely no skill on the wrong side. Sound like anyone else on our list with a father at another club?

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    15 hours ago, Roost it far said:

    MaCrae’s knock is his disposal, I’m not sure we could justify another poor disposer.

    I don't think it's disposal, he's pretty solid in that area. He just has zero leg speed.

    Would prefer him to Viney atm though easily

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    13 hours ago, Garbo said:

    Sure but who was on the market, there is only a dozen key fwds worth there salt in the afl and none have been gettable. Look round nearly all key fwds need to be drafted only 2 high profile ones have changed clubs in the last 10 years and at huge cost to the clubs the got them. Probably the big miss was not getting hogan back but he was a gamble for gws and I dont think he left us on the best terms

    i wouldn't say none. We did apparently pass up on Hogan before he went to GWS. Would have only cost us a small hot chips and coke too.

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    13 hours ago, BW511 said:

    @goodwindees seeing you often have good mail, what’s the mood like behind the scenes with the on ball group.

    Seems like they are very resistant to change

    14 hours ago, BW511 said:

    @goodwindees seeing you often have good mail, what’s the mood like behind the scenes with the on ball group.

    Seems like they are very resistant to change

    There is a couple of our inside bulls that would be very resistant to giving up the centre square because they realise they don’t have the skills, smarts to play in other positions.

    TBH, what I’ve heard over many years is that Goody has been quite fixed in his beliefs and is very much about continuing to act on what has worked, instead of risking a step back in the name of development.

    But that is so obvious to everyone in the way the side has been selected and coached.

    It is probably the reason for a lack of development in some, and the departures of others.

    As we all know, success papers over problems, but those chickens eventually come home to roost. Sorry, couldn’t resist the double proverb.

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    5 minutes ago, goodwindees said:

    There is a couple of our inside bulls that would be very resistant to giving up the centre square because they realise they don’t have the skills, smarts to play in other positions.

    TBH, what I’ve heard over many years is that Goody has been quite fixed in his beliefs and is very much about continuing to act on what has worked, instead of risking a step back in the name of development.

    But that is so obvious to everyone in the way the side has been selected and coached.

    It is probably the reason for a lack of development in some, and the departures of others.

    As we all know, success papers over problems, but those chickens eventually come home to roost. Sorry, couldn’t resist the double proverb.

    So as everyone is suggesting/seeing, the tail is wagging the dog.

    Appreciate you responding

    Edited by BW511

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    1 hour ago, GS_1905 said:

    i wouldn't say none. We did apparently pass up on Hogan before he went to GWS. Would have only cost us a small hot chips and coke too.

    cost us a small chips and a coke ? That would put him in the top 10 biggest contracts. MCG food prices at least.

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    25 minutes ago, Front and centre said:

    cost us a small chips and a coke ? That would put him in the top 10 biggest contracts. MCG food prices at least.

    Like a meat pie and chips or a hot dog and chips?

    Plus the beer I suppose.

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    23 hours ago, Doug Reemer said:

    I’m drawing a long bow on this one, but Jayden Hunt would be handy up forward atm. In 2019/20 he at least lead up at the ball made a contest. Chaplin’s wouln’t even know how to spell the [censored] words “lead” & “present” .

    I don't think its a long bow tbh, they took a calculated risk which didnt work out.

    I'd much rather we kept up with Jayden as opposed to the Hunter route.

    He'd probably be getting a game over Sharp if he was still here, still have some hope that Sharp can develop though.

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    2 hours ago, Front and centre said:

    cost us a small chips and a coke ? That would put him in the top 10 biggest contracts. MCG food prices at least.

    forgot the fine print. wasnt meant to be quoted in terms of MCG food prices. If that was the case, i would just said a single serving packet of tomato sauce

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