Having played in footy sides with a strong midfield/defence that cannot convert opportunities- it is the most confidence draining thing. You actually reach a point where you have less care for forward entries as you wonder whether the ball will just rebound back out.

I understand we are a defence first team and build from defence, but is it time to prioritise the players ahead of the ball, ahead of the back 6?

With this in mind, Turner and Petty should remain as the 2 key forwards. If we have any injuries down back, we replace them via the VFL. We seem to hold Turner in defence, and he is a break glass player.

I feel the forwardline has always been the lowest priority- ‘if we get enough inside 50s, we will kick a winning score’.

Efficiency and conversion are the key to winning. They are the key to confidence.

2 hours ago, SPC said:

Having played in footy sides with a strong midfield/defence that cannot convert opportunities- it is the most confidence draining thing. You actually reach a point where you have less care for forward entries as you wonder whether the ball will just rebound back out.

I understand we are a defence first team and build from defence, but is it time to prioritise the players ahead of the ball, ahead of the back 6?

With this in mind, Turner and Petty should remain as the 2 key forwards. If we have any injuries down back, we replace them via the VFL. We seem to hold Turner in defence, and he is a break glass player.

I feel the forwardline has always been the lowest priority- ‘if we get enough inside 50s, we will kick a winning score’.

Efficiency and conversion are the key to winning. They are the key to confidence.

It annoys me that we don't spend all our time practicing forward entries, shots on goal and crumbing to the likes of JVR, Petty, whoever! Maybe we do it in secret but the reports I'm reading all go on about the happy mood, laughing, lack of structure at training. It's now showing on game day where that leads. A team with the obvious flaws we have and have had for years need to be training this all the time. See how I did that without even mentioning that they play soccer instead of doing this.

Edited May 12May 12 by Roost it far

It's time to accept that Van Rooyen won't be a star. I don't read replies or reactions.

12 hours ago, SPC said:

Having played in footy sides with a strong midfield/defence that cannot convert opportunities- it is the most confidence draining thing. You actually reach a point where you have less care for forward entries as you wonder whether the ball will just rebound back out.

I understand we are a defence first team and build from defence, but is it time to prioritise the players ahead of the ball, ahead of the back 6?

With this in mind, Turner and Petty should remain as the 2 key forwards. If we have any injuries down back, we replace them via the VFL. We seem to hold Turner in defence, and he is a break glass player.

I feel the forwardline has always been the lowest priority- ‘if we get enough inside 50s, we will kick a winning score’.

Efficiency and conversion are the key to winning. They are the key to confidence.

So when will you be sitting down over a coffee, or maybe 10, with Simon SPC?

The impression i have is that he gives little regard for much of what happens forward of centre.

Just bang it in, lock it it in and repeat.

Is it any wonder we can't attract a top line KF, or even just a credibly rated one from elsewhere and that we haven't developed a succesfull one since Neita (17 years and counting).

10 hours ago, Roost it far said:

It annoys me that we don't spend all our time practicing forward entries, shots on goal and crumbing to the likes of JVR, Petty, whoever! Maybe we do it in secret but the reports I'm reading all go on about the happy mood, laughing, lack of structure at training. It's now showing on game day where that leads. A team with the obvious flaws we have and have had for years need to be training this all the time. See how I did that without even mentioning that they play soccer instead of doing this.

I'm not sure a recent great KF of the game (as forward line / offence coach) would be letting them off the hook after that diabolical performance (forward of centre) on Saturday Roost.

I'd be calling them in for a completely separate day & session that focuses only on this aspect.... until it became wrote and 90% of the team finally nailed what is expected at this level.

Even if it eats in to their normal recovery / off time. Too bad! Every designated mid /winger and forward gets it down pat or you're coming back for an extra session every bloody week.

Edited Monday at 12:125 days by Demon Dynasty

10 hours ago, Roost it far said:

Maybe we do it in secret but the reports I'm reading all go on about the happy mood, laughing, lack of structure at training.

You do realise that most training sessions are closed and/or indoor?

We should have gone Hogan when he was down and out. Could have got him for nothing just like GWS did. That annoys me as does playing Hunter ahead of Jordon. van Rooyen needs to be the second or 3rd forward he can't be numero uno. I'd be trading out Fritsch for Ugle-Hagan down and out at the moment a change of club may do him good.

I want our forward line to look something like this

F: Chandler, Ugle-Hagan, Spargo

HF: Sparrow, van Rooyen, Langford

35 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Even if it eats in to their normal recovery / off time. Too bad! Every designated mid /winger and forward gets it down pat or you're coming back for an extra session every bloody week.

Posts like this astonish me, though I don't why I'm still surprised to see them. The gulf between your average fan's understanding of what happens in elite sport and what actually happens remains as wide as it ever was.

We need to get the personnel balance right in our forward half.

IMV, we cannot play more than two talls, and one has to play as relief ruck. For mine, despite being horribly out of form, JVR needs to play that role for a few weeks. He's a good second ruck and competes hard at ground level. Chaplin needs to improve his forward craft.

Petty and Turner to swing into that other forward role.

Melksham, Sparrow, Chandler, Spargo, Kozzy and Trac to take the remaining forward spots.

If JVR can't get it together after some more continuity over the next month or so, I'd play Petty and Turner forward and try JVR behind the ball. Petty would probably have to take second ruck duties here.

But the formula remains the same. Only two talls and ground level players that can bring the heat.

The likes of Kozzy, Trac and Langford from the wing will drift forward and provide class inside 50.

We might be able to get away with Fritta and Melky in the same team against ordinary opposition, but we can't against half decent op, so they keep competing for the same spot. Jefferson third in line for that spot, but I wouldn't have him ahead of either.

We haven't managed much continuity with the forward half though this year, so we need to aim for some continuity and build trust in the pressure needed and finishing in our forward half.

We have lessened the bombing inside 50 to disadvantage, but it does still occasionally happen. We need to keep playing the uncontested footy at the back and the fast chaining by hand off half back and through the middle of the ground. I agree with @binman from tonight's podcast. We must keep pursuing this method.

The only other players I'd be trying are K Brown as a tackling machine inside 50, but he's behind Spargo and Sparrow. And, Laurie, if he keeps banging the door down at Casey.

36 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

We should have gone Hogan when he was down and out.

I would dearly love Jesse Hogan back in our forward line.

However, Jesse has publicly spoken about how he's struggled with the pressure of living in an AFL dominated state. I don't think he'd be playing the football he is now if he was still at Melbourne or to a lesser extent Freo.

Sydney seems to be a nice fit for him.

4 hours ago, bing181 said:

Posts like this astonish me, though I don't why I'm still surprised to see them. The gulf between your average fan's understanding of what happens in elite sport and what actually happens remains as wide as it ever was.

We are a mile away from elite with most things that happen in our forward half bing.

If we were then this thread and umpteen other threads / posts / discussions about our woes in this phase of the ground & play / personnel probably wouldn't even exist.

And we'd most likely have one more piece of silverware, or at least a GF appearance, since 2021.

Edited Monday at 17:285 days by Demon Dynasty

8 hours ago, bing181 said:

You do realise that most training sessions are closed and/or indoor?

I believe there's 1 closed session each week at Casey. Looking at the way we play I'd say we need another on forward half connection. We played good footy on Saturday. If we cleaned things up and kicked straight we win that. That's all I want to see, some leading patterns, forwards working to create room and mids who know where their forwards and the space they lead into is likely to be. Oh and I'd love us to kick straight. I also thought we weren't as good at forward pressure on Saturday but I may be wrong on that when you look at the numbers. Forwards running forward patterns as opposed to soccer or whatever other unstructured training they're doing.

I'll admit I could be completely wrong with these observations and perhaps they have been training these things for years, maybe the pudding is just destined to be flat.

Forwards who have been dropped this season:

Van Rooyen, Fritsch, Johnson, Turner, Fullarton, Henderson, Jefferson (likely this week).

Forwards who deserve to have been dropped, and would have been if we had anyone decent to replace them:

Melksham (2 goals in 5 games), Tholstrup (1 in 4), Spargo (1 in 7), Sharp.

That list includes premiership players, 200 game players and first round draft picks. At some point you have to say that its less about the personnel and more about the method.

That is the responsibility of the senior coach and the forward line coach to fix and, given that most of these issues have been around for three years, it is completely unacceptable that we are still dealing with them.

8 minutes ago, poita said:

Forwards who have been dropped this season:

Van Rooyen, Fritsch, Johnson, Turner, Fullarton, Henderson, Jefferson (likely this week).

Forwards who deserve to have been dropped, and would have been if we had anyone decent to replace them:

Melksham (2 goals in 5 games), Tholstrup (1 in 4), Spargo (1 in 7), Sharp.

That list includes premiership players, 200 game players and first round draft picks. At some point you have to say that its less about the personnel and more about the method.

That is the responsibility of the senior coach and the forward line coach to fix and, given that most of these issues have been around for three years, it is completely unacceptable that we are still dealing with them.

One could argue we have the worst assistant coaches in the league. Choco needs the arze based on his role and lack of results.

Kossie gets his free, the push from the Hawks captain gets paid to us 15 metres from goal, and we kick 4 of the 10 plus shots we missed and different result!

Forward line wise.

Stick with Turner for 6 weeks no matter what happens.

Fritsch gets left in twos until he starts kicking straight and competes!

Tholstrup has to do what we made ANB do, perform at VFL level week in week out and earn spot!

Henderson & Fullerton don’t play until they show competitive spirit at least 8 weeks, I don’t think Fullerton will ever make it! Rather see AJ play who has a crack!

21 hours ago, greenwaves said:

It's time to accept that Van Rooyen won't be a star. I don't read replies or reactions.

You can put that one in the bank.

2 minutes ago, D4Life said:

Forward line wise.

Stick with Turner for 6 weeks no matter what happens.

Fritsch gets left in twos until he starts kicking straight and competes!

Tholstrup has to do what we made ANB do, perform at VFL level week in week out and earn spot!

Henderson & Fullerton don’t play until they show competitive spirit at least 8 weeks, I don’t think Fullerton will ever make it! Rather see AJ play who has a crack!

You have my vote.

16 minutes ago, D4Life said:

Kossie gets his free, the push from the Hawks captain gets paid to us 15 metres from goal, and we kick 4 of the 10 plus shots we missed and different result!

Tbh .. the only part I think would/should have been different is Kozzies goal.

We weren't winning that game.

On 12/05/2025 at 09:52, SPC said:

Having played in footy sides with a strong midfield/defence that cannot convert opportunities- it is the most confidence draining thing.

It's depressing for fans, too. Watching us over the last couple of years has been awful. You rarely expect us to win, and you know with certainty that if we are in a close game we'll lose because we haven't been able to put the game away. The last few weeks, as our game style has changed, have been a relief.

Even if the plan to coach our forwards is seen as A+ the results aren't so something has to change. Does JVR need to go back? That way he might learn a bit more about how good forwards exploit opportunities.

I would bring in someone like a Hawkins as a different voice , something anything! Give the forwards and supporters some hope.

I just can't grasp how both Fritsch and Van Rooyen have slumped so completely.

Fritsch had a difficult and underperforming 2024 but his 2025 has been one chocolate from a box.

Van Rooyen went from promising but inconsistent kid on a conventional young tall forward trajectory who had moments but not whole games, to now being outright anaemic.

Meanwhile Jefferson looks like he's waiting for his owl from Hogwarts to arrive.

On 12/05/2025 at 12:20, greenwaves said:

It's time to accept that Van Rooyen won't be a star. I don't read replies or reactions.

And I didn't read that. Win: win.

Edited Tuesday at 13:404 days by redandbluemakepurple

14 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

I just can't grasp how both Fritsch and Van Rooyen have slumped so completely.

Fritsch had a difficult and underperforming 2024 but his 2025 has been one chocolate from a box.

Van Rooyen went from promising but inconsistent kid on a conventional young tall forward trajectory who had moments but not whole games, to now being outright anaemic.

Meanwhile Jefferson looks like he's waiting for his owl from Hogwarts to arrive.

How often do you actually see JVR on a lead taking a mark pretty much uncontested in the f50?

So often he's got one or two opponents all over him.

I don't know how much is system, how much is his leading technique.

After years of almost always having to compete outnumbered in packs, no wonder he is devoid of confidence.

We really always needed two key forwards up front working well together to take the pressure off the lad.

It's just a hot mess

16 minutes ago, Brownie said:

How often do you actually see JVR on a lead taking a mark pretty much uncontested in the f50?

So often he's got one or two opponents all over him.

I don't know how much is system, how much is his leading technique.

After years of almost always having to compete outnumbered in packs, no wonder he is devoid of confidence.

We really always needed two key forwards up front working well together to take the pressure off the lad.

It's just a hot mess

And it really comes down to Goodwin who has been out of his depth on the forward line issue. The club needs to hire a forward coach. But from what I have heard, it's Goodwins way or no way. Which is why it is hard to get assistant coaches to join.