16 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

From memory Dazzle something like 17 post season surgeries in 2019, which eventually netted us Jackson, Picket and Rivers.

 

37 minutes ago, Go the Biff said:

There was a video of Josh Mahony doing a presentation which covered our pre season.  Can't remember if it was the whole team or the whole midfield.  But he did point out that only 2 players had completed full pre seasons. Pretty sure one of them was Jordan Lewis. 

This was an article from Fox dated May 2019

19 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

From memory Dazzle something like 17 post season surgeries in 2019, which eventually netted us Jackson, Picket and Rivers.

Pretty sure it was reported by those at training there were not enough players to do proper match simulations on many occasions.

8 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

This was an article from Fox dated May 2019

Thanks Dazzle, We also had surgeries to Oliver both shoulders, Viney, Petracca, TMac, Harmes, Milkshake, Jetta, vandenberg, Hannan plus May was injured and Lever was still recovery from his ACL, so we were pretty banged up from woe to go.

26 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

Thanks Dazzle, We also had surgeries to Oliver both shoulders, Viney, Petracca, TMac, Harmes, Milkshake, Jetta, vandenberg, Hannan plus May was injured and Lever was still recovery from his ACL, so we were pretty banged up from woe to go.

Fingers crossed this doesn't happen this off season.

I like to consider myself a realist. So, my opinion is that Goodwin has enough runs on the board/credits in the bank (etc) to be given respect and time to, at a minimum, see out his contract until the end of 2026.

I am strongly of the opinion that we can have another crack at the flag in 2025 with a serviceable trade period, solid pre-season and better luck with injuries (and please, no more off field controversies this off season).

Goodwin clearly has some strengths, while clearly some areas that could do with minor to considerable improvement.

Outside of Jackson, we continue to retain all our star players (I read this to mean players enjoy being at the club and thus like Goodwin as a coach). Our drafting and talent development is also so far ahead of the dark days of Watts and Trengove etc that I am left impressed every year.

Room for improvement minor - I question some selection and game day decisions, we struggle to adapt quickly.

Room for improvement major -  Our trading last couple years has been, if I am being nice, disappointing. This may be a side effect of keeping so many players and having less room in the salary cap. But I really felt after May, Lever and Lingers (and lesser extend Brown) that we were becoming a destination club.

Summary - I think we have huge potential for improvement in 2025 and I do not believe we can be much worse than 2024. If we are bottoming out in 2026 then we need to decide if Goodwin is the coach to conduct a rebuild. But he gets to stay until his contract finishes.

1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

Including OMAC AND SAM FROST 😂

Pretty nasty comment on Frost. He has been pretty consistent at Hawthorn & on this year's form as a good as anyone we have down back apart from May & McVee.

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

No need to apologise! Your sentiment was perfectly clear and your gut feeling is perfectly correct.

Another lawyer, huh. That’s soooo Melbourne 🤣

Unrelated: if I was to murder my neighbour would I get off on the grounds of justifiable homicide due to the fact he’s an Essendon supporter?

hahahah - if it's worth anything, I am not a practising lawyer 🤣

Answer: most definitely! Wouldn't even make it to trial. You might even be sent a box of chocolates!

(Kind of related - with us not making finals, it's petty I know, but I am all for living through others not making it either. I am all in on the Bombers (especially) and maybe even the Blues missing (I played around with the ladder and somewhat expected results, and it requires the Eagles beating them over there - certainly possible), but I appreciate this also means that the Hawks would slip in, and I am not sure how I feel about that. At least they are playing exciting footy, which is both fun to watch and also aggravating for the usual hawthorn reasons. While this outcome could also open a spot for the Pies, I know we'll bump them in the final round (as they did to us a while back -  2017? 2016? When there was nothing in it for them, and in a similar place to us), so should be good. Anyway, no bombers or blues in the finals? How good! 

1 hour ago, Red But Mostly Blue said:

hahahah - if it's worth anything, I am not a practising lawyer 🤣

Answer: most definitely! Wouldn't even make it to trial. You might even be sent a box of chocolates!

(Kind of related - with us not making finals, it's petty I know, but I am all for living through others not making it either. I am all in on the Bombers (especially) and maybe even the Blues missing (I played around with the ladder and somewhat expected results, and it requires the Eagles beating them over there - certainly possible), but I appreciate this also means that the Hawks would slip in, and I am not sure how I feel about that. At least they are playing exciting footy, which is both fun to watch and also aggravating for the usual hawthorn reasons. While this outcome could also open a spot for the Pies, I know we'll bump them in the final round (as they did to us a while back -  2017? 2016? When there was nothing in it for them, and in a similar place to us), so should be good. Anyway, no bombers or blues in the finals? How good! 

I’d love to see the Giants win their first premiership. To see Jesse and Toby (Snooze) as premiership players would be heartwarming. There’s a lot to like about GWS. Their comms. dept. is the best in the league and their fans are the most tolerable. Their cheer squad members are great. In particular, their banner crew. Funny, friendly people, here’s an example: 

This is our banner crew for the recent Essendon match…

And this is our banner crew for the Giants game, unaware we were being mass-photobombed by their entire banner crew…

They even yelled out, “GO DEES” with us as the pics were being taken  🤣

 

 

PS: Ricky Lever hopes the Giants win it because they’re far away enough that we don’t have to endlessly hear about it,  and I reckon he speaks for many of us. 😁 

55 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I’d love to see the Giants win their first premiership. To see Jesse and Toby (Snooze) as premiership players would be heartwarming. There’s a lot to like about GWS. Their comms. dept. is the best in the league and their fans are the most tolerable. Their cheer squad members are great. In particular, their banner crew. Funny, friendly people, here’s an example: 

This is our banner crew for the recent Essendon match…

And this is our banner crew for the Giants game, unaware we were being mass-photobombed by their entire banner crew…

They even yelled out, “GO DEES” with us as the pics were being taken  🤣

 

 

PS: Ricky Lever hopes the Giants win it because they’re far away enough that we don’t have to endlessly hear about it,  and I reckon he speaks for many of us. 😁 

 

Plus, you get to hear their awesome club song 🎵 

Personally, I dislike the coach very much. Think he’s been autocratic and stubborn the whole time he’s been at the club.

BUT. This year he tried to change the way we played and it just didn’t work. He copped it for it failing and tried to go back to what we know works but it was too far gone by that point. The amount of [censored] off field over the last 12 months was too much for any good coach to deal with.

Dont forget that Geelong supporters were calling for Scott’s head every year they didn’t win the flag until he won them another one.

It does say a fair bit how split the fan base is on the coach, but reckon he deserves another year where the club isn’t falling to pieces off field and injuries don’t cripple our best players.

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I’d love to see the Giants win their first premiership. To see Jesse and Toby (Snooze) as premiership players would be heartwarming. There’s a lot to like about GWS. Their comms. dept. is the best in the league and their fans are the most tolerable. Their cheer squad members are great. In particular, their banner crew. Funny, friendly people, here’s an example: 

This is our banner crew for the recent Essendon match…

And this is our banner crew for the Giants game, unaware we were being mass-photobombed by their entire banner crew…

They even yelled out, “GO DEES” with us as the pics were being taken  🤣

 

 

PS: Ricky Lever hopes the Giants win it because they’re far away enough that we don’t have to endlessly hear about it,  and I reckon he speaks for many of us. 😁 

 

Agree with all GWS points. The fans have joined because they actually love the sport and have bought in, and are wholly decent. Would be nice to see Jesse (although I wish he was still with us, but happy he seems content) and Snooze (lol) (also wish he could have stayed, but understand) lift the cup. Rick knows what's up and the socials are GREAT! 

haha love the pics, that's the right kind of spirit - thanks for sharing WCW :-)

A poll on should we sack Goodwin now would be interesting

with only 2 options. yes/no

id expect over 65% No

9 minutes ago, DubDee said:

A poll on should we sack Goodwin now would be interesting

with only 2 options. yes/no

id expect over 65% No

Maybe Melbourne's board will look at the result to have an influence on their decision to keep or let him go... bahaha

I'm fine with people talking game plan/tactical changes that need to happen but the man himself isn't going anywhere next year. Its all moot.

Edited August 6, 2024Aug 6 by Young Blood

I am a supporter of Goodwin and think he has done a good job of developing the list and the players. Have all the trades worked out? No. Is Goodwin solely responsible for that? No.

Looking at this season i do not see that the results are all his responsibility. A tough preseason with a couple of players injured and/or having issues, Brayshaw having the retire.... Critical injuries to critical players, It added up to a very tough year for the players and the coaching staff.

I add to that an item that Goodwin and the coaching team are responsible for. I believe that they tried to adapt to the latest coaching/playing trends and on top of that, adjusted the game plan with what they thought was the next step in the development of those latest successful trends. It looks to me as if we are trying to control the ball movement much more than last season and this is leading to a much more static setup after a turnover. 

I think we might have coached the wrong structures this season. it may be that injuries have not helped the adoption of the new style of play that is required.

I will be interested to see what is developed during the next preseason. 

In the last three games of this season I would like to see the team given more freedom to attack. Let them play a bit more instinctively. Still make them aware of the required fundamentals but give them licence to play with imagination and aggression. 

As for the players I would give Laurie a run for these last three games as well as getting a look at Jefferson and Sestan. We need to know what they could bring to the team.

Edited August 6, 2024Aug 6 by CHF
one too many 's' in as

6 hours ago, Red But Mostly Blue said:

Sorry if my sentiment came across as light/non-committal. I'm a lawyer, so use words very carefully (mostly) haha. I am all about should/could/would etc. 

But you obviously have much closer contact with the group. As a specialist in observing surrounding circumstances as a whole to make conclusions, I'd have to say my comfortable gut feeling is the group very much backs Goody.

Big time ❤️

Are you planning on going straight anytime soon @Red But Mostly Blue?

"We've got so many good players and so many good coaches that it's exciting.”

Ed Langdon

25 minutes ago, bing181 said:

"We've got so many good players and so many good coaches that it's exciting.”

Ed Langdon

Come on, as if he was going to say anything different. Why is this such a surprise?

Very happy he’s signed on though.

Edited August 6, 2024Aug 6 by Heart Beats True

20 minutes ago, Heart Beats True said:

Come on, as if he was going to say anything different. Why is this such a surprise?

Very happy he’s signed on though.

The fact he signed, along with many many others who had plenty of options/strong lure of going home, suggests that this isn’t a lie. 
 

Players who aren’t happy don’t stay. There are many avenues now for players to depart, especially when we are talking about players the quality of Kosi, Petty, Langdon, not to mention Trac and Clarry who signed long deals under Goody. 

12 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

2017 Failed badly

2018 Coached well

2019 Failed badly

2020 Failed badly

2021 Coached very well

2022 Coached very poorly

2023 Coached well - unlucky

2024 Started well then the wheels fell off

Considering over the journey he inherited the best defence, midfield & ruck in the competition this is a pretty sketchy record.

Will fall on deaf ears CF

This is good.  I've read many well composed counter arguments in this thread. 

It helps to revive the memory and give a little bit of context to some of the challenges of other years.  

Overall though I would still welcome a change although I accept it is unlikely.  

The points about the records of other coaches are interesting.  I'm delighted if all other teams have coaches with terrible records of mediocrity and near misses.  They're welcome to them and to perpetuating their tenure.

This is professional sport where coaches and players are paid for their skill and expertise in football.  As professionals our club should aim for perfection and then whatever the result they (and we) can be satisfied that they've done their best.  

Looking at the record I don't think it's the best possible outcome and it seems to be deteriorating.  Lots of you are happy to persist owing to the flag.  That's just resting on laurels and not acceptable for professional sportspeople. The rest of the league has clearly moved on from 2021. 

The optimism, blind faith and loyalty are all good qualities of many of you fellow Demons, as is the quality of respectful debate we have here.  Nevertheless recent months have not been enjoyable and we can all admit that whatever the causes the statistics are damning. I'll say the following with that in mind:f

If I was the respected, popular and well regarded (loved by many) Simon Goodwin I'd wonder if it was better to leave on his own terms with a flag and a record he can be proud of whilst the team still has reasonable prospects.  Or should he stay on for two more years and try to learn a style of football and tactics that aren't natural to him. 

The gamble for him is in balancing his livelihood with his legacy. 

We can mostly agree that we're starting to witness a decline, so if we drop to the lowest rungs of the ladder in two years then he will be held responsible for the parlous state of the club and he'll suffer an ignominious exit.  

9 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

Love your work & passion WCW but think you lack objectivity. Coaching is not a popularity contest & sometimes requires ruthlessness.

Some of the selection decisions in recent years seem based on favouritism not form.

I don’t care if the coach is loved or not. 

100%. I remember back in my military days, when a new person was about to join the unit, the most common first question was, “what’s he like?” If the response was, “he’s a good bloke”, my response would be that I didn’t care if he was a good bloke, is he a good leader and solider? Too nice, you’ll just be walked all over.

13 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

2017 Failed badly

2018 Coached well

2019 Failed badly

2020 Failed badly

2021 Coached very well

2022 Coached very poorly

2023 Coached well - unlucky

2024 Started well then the wheels fell off

Considering over the journey he inherited the best defence, midfield & ruck in the competition this is a pretty sketchy record.

so what is your contention?

A coach like any role is either good or bad in the position. So is he good or bad? did he forget how to coach in 2022 or did other factors come in?

Or does good coaching come in waves and we can’t do anything to stop it?

22 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Too nice, you’ll just be walked all over.

.🤷‍♀️

Edited August 6, 2024Aug 6 by Engorged Onion

1 hour ago, Heart Beats True said:

Come on, as if he was going to say anything different. Why is this such a surprise?

Very happy he’s signed on though.

He would’ve said nothing at all before saying something insincere.

Langers is the last person to say something he doesn’t believe. He’s been criticised for being ‘too candid’ so you know that when he says something he means it.

 

 

Why would someone p!$$ on this parade? It really has me stumped. Why not just say “Very happy he’s signed on though” and leave it at that?

Soz all, just thinking aloud.  

 

8 hours ago, Red But Mostly Blue said:

Sorry if my sentiment came across as light/non-committal. I'm a lawyer, so use words very carefully (mostly) haha. I am all about should/could/would etc. 

 

Can you imagine a world without lawyers?

 

 

Edited August 6, 2024Aug 6 by layzie