Goodwin is the MAN!

[Watson11 2,240]

I was going to post this on the other Goody forum but it seems more appropriate to be posted on this one.

A fair few posters quote that Goody's record stacks up against the best in the business.  I don't agree but hadn't really looked at the numbers closely and his record stacks up slightly better than I thought it did.  To be fair, I compared coaches records at the end of their 8th season (ignoring what came after).  Goody had more flags than Mick Malthouse at that stage so ranks higher than Mick.  

49 coaches have had 8 seasons.  I ranked them on premierships, GFs, prelims, finals, and W-L records at the end of their 8th season.  If tied I compared the next stat ie ranking premierships, ties were broken by GFs played etc.

Goody's ranking is:

Premierships  28 out of 49 (Only 11 had 2+ flags)

GFs 36 out of 49 (27 had 2+ GFs)

Prelims 36 out of 49 (26 had 3+ prelims)

Finals 35 out of 49 (31 had 5+ finals)

W-L 30 out of 49

One small ray of hope is Goody equalled or ranked above Bomber Thompson, Leigh Matthews, Mick Malthouse, Hardwick, Chris Scott, John Kennedy Snr, Alan Jeans, Clarko, Frank Hughes and Malcolm Blight for premierships after 8 seasons. All of those coaches went on to win more flags from their 9th year on (several won multiple times). 

The coaches who went on to win more flags at the club they started are a smaller group (Clarko, C Scott, Hardwick, Bomber Thompson).  Most of the others changed clubs and had a new list when they had the majority of their success.

This won't end debate on how good a coach Goody is, with some still ranking him up their with Norm Smith and others ranking him with Bill Stephen (didn't make finals in his first 8 seasons at Fitzroy). It is a reasonable dataset that compares all of the coaches at the same stage of their coaching career removing that bias.

I hope we sort out our off field distractions and give Goody a good run at it next year.  I feel our superstar players are 28-32 and this will be our last real shot for a while.

 

[IRW 1,387]

1 hour ago, Watson11 said:

I was going to post this on the other Goody forum but it seems more appropriate to be posted on this one.

A fair few posters quote that Goody's record stacks up against the best in the business.  I don't agree but hadn't really looked at the numbers closely and his record stacks up slightly better than I thought it did.  To be fair, I compared coaches records at the end of their 8th season (ignoring what came after).  Goody had more flags than Mick Malthouse at that stage so ranks higher than Mick.  

49 coaches have had 8 seasons.  I ranked them on premierships, GFs, prelims, finals, and W-L records at the end of their 8th season.  If tied I compared the next stat ie ranking premierships, ties were broken by GFs played etc.

Goody's ranking is:

Premierships  28 out of 49 (Only 11 had 2+ flags)

GFs 36 out of 49 (27 had 2+ GFs)

Prelims 36 out of 49 (26 had 3+ prelims)

Finals 35 out of 49 (31 had 5+ finals)

W-L 30 out of 49

One small ray of hope is Goody equalled or ranked above Bomber Thompson, Leigh Matthews, Mick Malthouse, Hardwick, Chris Scott, John Kennedy Snr, Alan Jeans, Clarko, Frank Hughes and Malcolm Blight for premierships after 8 seasons. All of those coaches went on to win more flags from their 9th year on (several won multiple times). 

The coaches who went on to win more flags at the club they started are a smaller group (Clarko, C Scott, Hardwick, Bomber Thompson).  Most of the others changed clubs and had a new list when they had the majority of their success.

This won't end debate on how good a coach Goody is, with some still ranking him up their with Norm Smith and others ranking him with Bill Stephen (didn't make finals in his first 8 seasons at Fitzroy). It is a reasonable dataset that compares all of the coaches at the same stage of their coaching career removing that bias.

I hope we sort out our off field distractions and give Goody a good run at it next year.  I feel our superstar players are 28-32 and this will be our last real shot for a while.

 

There's aother  instinctive way to analyse coaches players and teams

How much do  opposition supporters hate opposition players teams and coaches ?

I suggest that no one really cares about any of those aspects of MFC.

They're considered about as bland and irrelevant as the Dogs.

Two exceptions. One Dog and one Demon ...but even they arnt " hated"

 

Edited September 17 by IRW

[Ollie fan 3,370]

38 minutes ago, IRW said:

There's aother  instinctive way to analyse coaches players and teams

How much do  opposition supporters hate opposition players teams and coaches ?

I suggest that no one really cares about any of those aspects of MFC.

They're considered about as bland and irrelevant as the Dogs.

Two exceptions. One Dog and one Demon ...but even they arnt " hated"

 

I don't think many people hate Longmire, who is generally considered a very good coach. I don't think they hated Parkin or Blight, either.

Re the post from Watson11: we have to remember that a coach who has lasted 8 seasons is probably much better than many coaches. Poor coaches don't last anything like that long. So the statistics are against quality, not coaches as a whole.

[deespicable me 1,486]

3 hours ago, IRW said:

There's aother  instinctive way to analyse coaches players and teams

How much do  opposition supporters hate opposition players teams and coaches ?

I suggest that no one really cares about any of those aspects of MFC.

They're considered about as bland and irrelevant as the Dogs.

Two exceptions. One Dog and one Demon ...but even they arnt " hated"

 

But we are hated. By the media. 

[Oxdee 343]

Anyone hearing chatter about the coach and his position? 

[Heart Beats True 1,225]

2 minutes ago, Oxdee said:

Anyone hearing chatter about the coach and his position? 

No. Have you?

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,817]

4 minutes ago, Oxdee said:

Anyone hearing chatter about the coach and his position? 

Do tell.

Ross Lyon was appointed coach of St Kilda on 24 October 2022 so there's oodles of time if the club thinks Simon should seek other opportunities. 

[drysdale demon 4,830]

14 minutes ago, Oxdee said:

Anyone hearing chatter about the coach and his position? 

I would suggest if you are going to post something like that you give some creedence to it otherwise it just becomes an unsubstantiated rumor.

[Oxdee 343]

4 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

I would suggest if you are going to post something like that you give some creedence to it otherwise it just becomes an unsubstantiated rumor.

Just chatter and rumours.. hopefully not more than that 

[rufus 1,162]

Hopefully nothing. The last thing this club needs right now is to move away from Goodwin IMO.

[drysdale demon 4,830]

28 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Do tell.

Ross Lyon was appointed coach of St Kilda on 24 October 2022 so there's oodles of time if the club thinks Simon should seek other opportunities. 

If Goodwin was asked to leave now I think the club would just implode.

[DeeZone 9,819]

On 17/09/2024 at 21:40, deespicable me said:

But we are hated. By the media. 

Not as much as we hate them Deespicable, swings and roundabouts, let’s hope we close them out when we have our next run at it…..!!

[DeeZone 9,819]

58 minutes ago, Oxdee said:

Anyone hearing chatter about the coach and his position? 

Yes the players are lining up to stay with us….!!

[Oxdee 343]

Adam Simpson? 

[dazzledavey36 54,851]

8 minutes ago, Oxdee said:

Adam Simpson? 

Senior assistant?

[DubDee 25,830]

9 hours ago, Oxdee said:

Just chatter and rumours.. hopefully not more than that 

unless you give details, why vague post?

unless you’re full of it of course 

[DubDee 25,830]

28 minutes ago, Oxdee said:

Adam Simpson? 

He was the WC Coach, sacked earlier this year.

Great playing career at North

[Wizard of Koz 1,085]

goodwin is a fantastic coach. A gun player in his time too. 

[58er 6,422]

On 17/09/2024 at 18:24, IRW said:

There's aother  instinctive way to analyse coaches players and teams

How much do  opposition supporters hate opposition players teams and coaches ?

I suggest that no one really cares about any of those aspects of MFC.

They're considered about as bland and irrelevant as the Dogs.

Two exceptions. One Dog and one Demon ...but even they arnt " hated"

 

Really this is la la land rubbish. 
si extent judge our Coach by the thoughts and judgement of our opposition supporters. 

Good luck with that logic it’s got about the same credibility as words out of a certain person who lead the USA and now wants the world to have a second dose of his Bul…t. 

[Kent 2,909]

2 hours ago, 58er said:

Really this is la la land rubbish. 
si extent judge our Coach by the thoughts and judgement of our opposition supporters. 

Good luck with that logic it’s got about the same credibility as words out of a certain person who lead the USA and now wants the world to have a second dose of his Bul…t. 

There is plenty of that around here

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,817]

Sam Mitchell had a bit of a dig at Simon Goodwin this morning basically suggesting that his game plan that was successful in 2021 is now obsolete.

Now I know posters will refer to round 2 when our "obsolete" game plan beat his Hawks by 9 goals.

However since round 8 Mitchell's Hawks went 14-3 while Goodwin had a poor 5-10 from that point.

Edited September 20 by Bring-Back-Powell

[Hopeful Demon 1,517]

For some reason most opinions on Goodwin on this site have to go from one extreme to another.

Fwiw, I don't see him as a genius or a fraud. I think he's a solid coach with various deficiencies. It's perfectly fine to be neutral on him.

Edited September 20 by Hopeful Demon

[old55 23,542]

On 17/09/2024 at 17:18, Watson11 said:

I was going to post this on the other Goody forum but it seems more appropriate to be posted on this one.

A fair few posters quote that Goody's record stacks up against the best in the business.  I don't agree but hadn't really looked at the numbers closely and his record stacks up slightly better than I thought it did.  To be fair, I compared coaches records at the end of their 8th season (ignoring what came after).  Goody had more flags than Mick Malthouse at that stage so ranks higher than Mick.  

49 coaches have had 8 seasons.  I ranked them on premierships, GFs, prelims, finals, and W-L records at the end of their 8th season.  If tied I compared the next stat ie ranking premierships, ties were broken by GFs played etc.

Goody's ranking is:

Premierships  28 out of 49 (Only 11 had 2+ flags)

GFs 36 out of 49 (27 had 2+ GFs)

Prelims 36 out of 49 (26 had 3+ prelims)

Finals 35 out of 49 (31 had 5+ finals)

W-L 30 out of 49

One small ray of hope is Goody equalled or ranked above Bomber Thompson, Leigh Matthews, Mick Malthouse, Hardwick, Chris Scott, John Kennedy Snr, Alan Jeans, Clarko, Frank Hughes and Malcolm Blight for premierships after 8 seasons. All of those coaches went on to win more flags from their 9th year on (several won multiple times). 

The coaches who went on to win more flags at the club they started are a smaller group (Clarko, C Scott, Hardwick, Bomber Thompson).  Most of the others changed clubs and had a new list when they had the majority of their success.

This won't end debate on how good a coach Goody is, with some still ranking him up their with Norm Smith and others ranking him with Bill Stephen (didn't make finals in his first 8 seasons at Fitzroy). It is a reasonable dataset that compares all of the coaches at the same stage of their coaching career removing that bias.

I hope we sort out our off field distractions and give Goody a good run at it next year.  I feel our superstar players are 28-32 and this will be our last real shot for a while.

 

That's interesting analysis. It's actually a ranking of Goodwin's position among the cohort of greatest ever coaches.

[Ted Lasso 19,500]

15 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Sam Mitchell had a bit of a dig at Simon Goodwin this morning basically suggesting that his game plan that was successful in 2021 is now obsolete.

Now I know posters will refer to round 2 when our "obsolete" game plan beat his Hawks by 9 goals.

However since round 8 Mitchell's Hawks went 14-3 while Goodwin had a poor 5-10 from that point.

I think every game plan has a natural life cycle, we will find out a huge amount about Sam Mitchell in 12 months time, because every club is going to spend the entire off season poking holes in his game plan. if it's not bulletproof, they can come back to the pack really quickly. 

we saw this in 2018

[Pennant St Dee 13,171]

19 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Sam Mitchell had a bit of a dig at Simon Goodwin this morning basically suggesting that his game plan that was successful in 2021 is now obsolete.

Now I know posters will refer to round 2 when our "obsolete" game plan beat his Hawks by 9 goals.

However since round 8 Mitchell's Hawks went 14-3 while Goodwin had a poor 5-10 from that point.

I think you heard what you wanted to hear 

I listened to Mitchell with Kane and Kings this morning and didn’t take it that way at all. He was more referencing the way the Hawks finished this year didn’t guarantee natural progression. Saying teams who were up in 2023 didn’t necessarily continue that trend in 2024.

Inline with trends referenced previous game styles and that is where we were used with other teams following suit. King a short time later went on to say teams would analyse Hawthorn, put work into them and also be bringing or emulating some of their game style in pre season