13 hours ago, binman said:

Just watched the Wednesday night First Crack.

At the top of the show, Montagna's 'first crack' was the Demons and pushing back on the ridiculous notion that something magic happened after our loss to the bombers to turn our season around.

(@Demonland any chance you could put the clip in this thread?)

He showed a bunch of key stats comparing round 1-6 and 6-11 to make the point the game plan and method has not changed and that our wins are a result of more successfully implementing the game plan (a game plan David King correctly noted we began developing in 2024).

He noted what has changed is our pressure and contest which has resulted in increased turnovers, which in turn has driven higher scores (he said we averaged 60 points per game rounds 1 to 6 and from round 6-12, 97 points)

so where was the pressure in Rd 1 to 6

If you’ve coached you will be aware of the difficulties of implementing change and breaking players away from what they have done for years. How hard is it to run with the ball carrier and feed off @Sir Why You Little asks well if it were that simple, this falls back to previous complaints of why we had so many in at a contest only for an outside opponent to be hit up, now we back our teammate to win the contest and have the outside option. This isn’t easy to break into development kids let alone senior players who have had the previous plan embedded into them for 4 years. Windsor, Langdon, Langford, Lindsay, Bowey and McKee are huge with our style of play now along with the buy in from Trac, Oliver and Viney.

We now use quick hands 2, 3,4 to get it out to space where we know we will have a runner and a second and third runner to create a chain or go lateral/45 with a kick and potentially another runner to receive. We are making the ground bigger and this is also benefitting our f50 entries with our players getting separation

We didn’t have the runners before because we kicked long and got numbers into our F50. That transition has to be a group thing, believe in your team mate and provide the run from behind for the HB receive as opposed to kick long and press up as a defensive unit.

There is still a lot when we move the ball forward of the team pressing up and settling up defensively which along with our lift in pressuring the ball carrier and corralling which is creating the forward half turnovers and repeat entries.

For mine the transition took time for a few reasons Mcvee and Kossie with their foot skills and Kossie xfactor

Viney, Oliver and Trac recalibrating to not always kick first option

Lifting the pressure across the ground to cause turnovers and start the handball chains to create movement on the outside

Belief

Understand though we aren’t the finished article and we will transgress occasionally

3 hours ago, rjay said:

Application of learning & skill development takes time to show up.

All others have been saying is that it's something we've been working on for a while.

From round 6 we've started to see the results of that work break through.

The great jazz saxophonist Michael Brecker talked about the frustration of practicing a new skill but not seeing the results on the bandstand.

Then 6 months later it would start to show through.

It was as though it came from out of nowhere.

The significant shift might have shown up from round 6 but it was the culmination of a lot of hard work started way before then.

Surely that makes sense.

And there needs to be a complete buy-in from the players as well (obviously)

There's been plenty of chatter of late here with regards to what we are doing when we've got the ball

... but there are also other major factors as to what the team members do when the ball is in dispute and also, what we do when the opposition has the ball

So to have a dramatic game plan change is going to create issues until everyone is on the same page

There's a lot to learn but thankfully, we are starting to see the results

As you said in another post, rjay, it's never just the one thing

One thing I haven’t looked at and would be interested in others thoughts on is do we set up defensively further back when inside 50? In doing this when the opponent clears the ball from our F50 it creates more space in our F50 for us to force a turnover and then reenter. We’ve had the discussion on here about our clogged 50 and how that hampers our entries.

I’ve certainly noticed that we regularly hit the 45 kick from the wing and then if going long we head to the top of the square.

22 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Viney, Oliver and Trac recalibrating to not always kick first option

This is a huge factor in our performances Rounds 2-5. Against GWS in Round 1 it was wet and windy day, and thus bombing from our mids was less of an issue as interceptors couldn't mark the ball as easily. It got it inside and we put on adequate pressure to lock it in.

But from Rounds 2-5, we bombed the ball repeatedly on turnover. We would create numerous turnovers over and over again and hand the ball back to the other side. Think that third quarter against North, where Viney and Trac, but particularly Viney, kept bombing it to the opposition outnumber. We created more than enough turnovers to be ahead at 3/4 time in that game. (it didn't help that we lost Jefferson early as it allowed them a taller extra behind the ball)

Against the Suns we were smashed at stoppage and our pressure was nowhere, but when we did get it, it was long and predictable. Aside from some chipping it around at the back, although we stopped pretty quickly doing this in that game.

The long bombing continued for this entire period and Jack Viney was a major culprit. Trac and Clarry didn't help in this department either. But when Viney got the defensive role against Freo, we started to think our way through things better and it helped thar we brought pressure and had a lot of space in our forwardline created by pressing our forwards up the ground.

22 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Understand though we aren’t the finished article and we will transgress occasionally

This is the thing that cannot be stressed enough. We are going to lose games this season and some of it may not be pretty, but less baby out with the bathwater stuff would be nice.

Edited May 29May 29 by Adam The God

29 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

This is a huge factor in our performances Rounds 2-5. Against GWS in Round 1 it was wet and windy day, and thus bombing from our mids was less of an issue as interceptors couldn't mark the ball as easily. It got it inside and we put on adequate pressure to lock it in.

But from Rounds 2-5, we bombed the ball repeatedly on turnover. We would create numerous turnovers over and over again and hand the ball back to the other side. Think that third quarter against North, where Viney and Trac, but particularly Viney, kept bombing it to the opposition outnumber. We created more than enough turnovers to be ahead at 3/4 time in that game. (it didn't help that we lost Jefferson early as it allowed them a taller extra behind the ball)

Against the Suns we were smashed at stoppage and our pressure was nowhere, but when we did get it, it was long and predictable. Aside from some chipping it around at the back, although we stopped pretty quickly doing this in that game.

The long bombing continued for this entire period and Jack Viney was a major culprit. Trac and Clarry didn't help in this department either. But when Viney got the defensive role against Freo, we started to think our way through things better and it helped thar we brought pressure and had a lot of space in our forwardline created by pressing our forwards up the ground.

This is the thing that cannot be stressed enough. We are going to lose games this season and some of it may not be pretty, but less baby out with the bathwater stuff would be nice.

We turned Combden into Wayne Carey, a truly chilling day at the football. I wanted them all sacked after that.

On 29/08/2024 at 09:19, rpfc said:

I said it somewhere else - I think the next 6 months will be the making of Goodwin. 

He’s not an abrasive coach, say what you will about his style and the drawbacks of being a ‘players coach’ but he is that. CP5 has issues with how we have handled him and with our ‘brand’, ANB and Kozzie are homesick - they are hardly on SG. Culture is definitely in his gamut of responsibility but more so for Gawn and the leaders, noting that ‘culture’ is a misnomer at clubs - they are all works in progress battling the issues of a collection of 20 something blokes.

I think we have the right person in that role for right now.

This is looking…

12 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Again, the stats don't support this. A significant shift in our ball movement, defensive pressure, territory and forward half intercepts all started from round 6 onwards. I find it amusing that Binman questions this when the first thing on the Freo episode of the podcast he mentions the change in our pressure rating which has clearly gone through the roof since round 6.

Wotcha ya talking about Willis?

When i have i questioned that the big change since round 6 has been our pressure and contest?

The answer to that question is never.

As you note, i made that exact point after the Freo game and have banged on about it since, both on the pod and on DL. As i have said many times pressure is the most important stat in footy - doesn't matter what game plan a team uses it won't work optimally if the pressure is not high enough.

Take the lions - everyone knows what their game plan looks like. In the last quarter against us they applied woeful pressure and as a result could not come close to implementing their method ad looked nothing like they do when they are up and about. The next week they applied relentless pressure again the Hawks for the whole game and hey presto were able to implement their game plan.

You are correct to say our increased pressure has been a catalyst for increased time in forward half, forward half turnovers and in turn higher scores. Those improvements are not possible without getting our pressure right - they are symptoms no causes.

But our shift to applying elite pressure is not an example of us changing our game plan or method, it is an example of playing in a manner that is nonnegotiable, a fundamental, if teams want to be competitive in the AFL, regardless of their method. It's a minimum standard - one we did not meet in round ones to five.

Bottom line is you are wrong - there hasn't been a 'significant shift in our ball movement', or for that matter our method or game plan, which you have implied is the case in previous posts. Which was Joey Montagna's exact point as evidenced by the data he highlighted.

Again, it doesn't matter what game plan a team uses it won't work optimally if the pressure is not high enough. Applying AFL standard pressure has simply enabled us to execute and implement a game plan they started developing in the 2024 preseason and for much of the 2024 season (before reverting to straight line footy later in the season, i suspect to minimise losses and try and eke out some win - something Goodys publicly said he regrets doing, ie he thinks he should have stuck fat with the new game plan).

There’s no doubt our game looks quite different from rounds 1-5 as opposed to rounds 6-11 and the data shows that. In rounds 1-5 there was still a lot of long bombs kicked into F50 and a lot of long down the line kicks from HB/wing. There’s a few reasons for the difference imo. First and foremost it’s attack on the contest, which was there in round one but gone in rounds 2-5, it’s now the standard. Second and only marginally less important is the return of our best 22 and the continued improvement of Tracc, Oliver and Viney. Thirdly are the intangibles, belief, confidence and mojo. Belief in the system, the coaches and your teammates, confidence grows from this and for mine mojo is the slight swagger a team gets when belief and confidence grow to a certain point. Think 21 finals series. We haven’t got mojo yet but you’ll see it when we do. Teams don’t win a Flag without it.

So yes our game looks completely different but this is a style we’ve been working on since the preseason of 24. Mojo takes time but I think it’s coming.

Edited May 29May 29 by Roost it far

16 hours ago, binman said:

Just watched the Wednesday night First Crack.

At the top of the show, Montagna's 'first crack' was the Demons and pushing back on the ridiculous notion that something magic happened after our loss to the bombers to turn our season around.

(@Demonland any chance you could put the clip in this thread?)

He showed a bunch of key stats comparing round 1-6 and 6-11 to make the point the game plan and method has not changed and that our wins are a result of more successfully implementing the game plan (a game plan David King correctly noted we began developing in 2024).

He noted what has changed is our pressure and contest which has resulted in increased turnovers, which in turn has driven higher scores (he said we averaged 60 points per game rounds 1 to 6 and from round 6-12, 97 points)

Ange Postecoglou often speaks about the stonemason’s creed — the quiet, relentless work of striking the stone, knowing it might take a hundred blows before anything shifts, but believing that it’s the 101st that cracks it open. Not because that final strike is special, but because of everything that came before it. That idea — of persistence, belief, and purpose-driven effort — mirrors the Melbourne Football Club’s 2025 season to date. In Rounds 1–6, they looked off: the system wasn’t clicking, the forward line felt disjointed, and fans questioned if the spark had gone. But beneath the surface, the work continued. Structures were tweaked, roles clarified, effort sustained.

And now, Melbourne looks like a different side — more connected, harder at the contest, more daring with ball movement. It's not a miracle turnaround; it's the 101st blow. Just like Postecoglou’s creed, this resurgence is built on the foundation of unseen toil — stone by stone, blow by blow — until finally, things split open.

*edited by ai - as i couldn't be bothered typing

It has been some turnaround

Even hawks last year were competitive before the wins started to come

I can’t recall a team that looked so lost and playing so badly turn it around to this extent

I know the work was being done but I’ve never seen it click so emphatically

I fully expect us to win plenty more games this year

Kudos to goody and the coaching team. I’m sorry I doubted you

Im far from his greatest fan.

I'm about Melbourne.

The reality is right now the first half dozen games are moot. We aren't playing like that.... tfft

The losses hurt... the percentage might come back to bite us .

I want to have a competitive team, I want wins.

Atm we are that. We can improve.

Goody has talked the talk...is walking now.

I can see purpose in watching how rest of season pans out.

Finals... may or may not be a bridge too far.

Not where I put the line.. The line is relevance, persistence and momentum.

Let's see how we go

@Demonland why was my post rejected here? It wasn't defamatory, violent, obscene or full-on nasty. So what happened?

This week - yes.

Time for change right across the board. Nothing changes with this team.

What a dumb idea to rest TMac. He needs to go & take Lever with him.

Sorry but Norm Smith wouldn't have won with this lot today..

please find the best kicking coach in the land and pay him whatever he asks for.

Take a walk! See ya, not bloody good enough!

Just now, picket fence said:

Take a walk! See ya, not bloody good enough!

Nothing to do with the goal kicking?

Seriously??

blame the coach when if they kicked straight would’ve won by 6 goals

Goody’s job is to implement a game plan in which players play defence and offence in a way that creates sufficient opportunities to kick more goals than the other side. He did his job. We had plenty of opportunities.

There are no adjustments on earth Goody could’ve made that would’ve stopped that amount of dreadful kicking.

What is Goody’s responsibility now, though, is making the necessary change to who coaches goal kicking going forward.

6 minutes ago, Billy said:

Nothing to do with the goal kicking?

Seriously??

blame the coach when if they kicked straight would’ve won by 6 goals

We could have won by more if they’d kicked straight and not played with the mindset of millionaires and just expected to win. The mindset is a coaching problem sitting squarely with Goodwin and his team.

7 minutes ago, Heart Beats True said:

We could have won by more if they’d kicked straight and not played with the mindset of millionaires and just expected to win. The mindset is a coaching problem sitting squarely with Goodwin and his team.

Rubbish

That loss was totally down to goal kicking

Everyone knew it was coming except for goodwin. Too pig headed to manipulate the obvious tags. From a B grade battler club that survives on hand outs and reactionary emotion.

@Demonland

Goody

1. What did you do to try to stop Wanganeen milera ? He ran free all day (except when off for 15. Minutes of 2nd qtr) No player went to him. No one.

2. What did you do to try to stop Sinclair in 1st half ? 20 possessions No player went to him. No one.

3. Goalkicking. 7.21. 7.21. 7.21. Dry. Sunny. Little if any wind. Saints 14.7. Are you practicing at all? Players look nervous. Players have no routine. Setup is all wrong.

4. Finally. Don’t kick it to Wilkie. One of the best 1-1 defenders. Yet we kicked it to him and he won marking contests then stayed free in defence unmanned. what were the instructions?

5. Are the players not listening or are you not giving instructions?