17 hours ago, Superunknown said:

Look I just want to get back to winning games like 21-23

Now we get the fun ride of the rebuild, hopefully it’s a fast one

1 hour ago, Roost it far said:

You clearly haven't been reading my posts.

Love your work Roost 🤣

I’ve heard from a usually unreliable source that Goody will keep his job next year.

Therefore, I’m now assuming he may actually be sacked at years end.

6 hours ago, Watson11 said:

Of course fitness plays a huge part but you are right that it’s probably more psychology than anything.

But what is your explanation for our amazing 37-7 run that took in the flag? During that run it was the same players and skill level. Interestingly we were either behind or even at 1/2 time or after in 26 of those games yet only lost 7. That is not a first half record of a team that would normally even make finals. If we were not super fit and mentally didn’t believe we were super fit during that run we probably finish bottom 6 in 2021.

It's a good question and again I think it's a multitude of factors.

Some that all clubs experience when at the top which is the idea and psychology around consistently being the hunted and what comes with that after a period of time. Opposition sides figuring out ways to disarm and undo a game plan. A competition where you need to be constantly evolving.

The thing about our game-plan back then was that we had built a core group who's strengths shone in that particular template and I would say definitely masked obvious weaknesses. But due to how well we were able to execute that game-plan, our weaknesses weren't as much of an issue during that time although they were still very much there. Whether that was the finals series of 22/23 or throughout season campaigns at different stages. Finishing skills, converting shots at goal, execution inside 50 when under little pressure etc. All the same issues.

I also think we possessed what every club at the top goes through which is aura. And with that comes a strong sense of self-belief and confidence. And with a swell of momentum from the footballing world, media and our own supporters through that 21' flag year, you can see how morale, confidence and the psychology around knowing you're the best in it just plays such a huge role.

I think Darren Burgess was another factor. His aura, the confidence he instilled in the players. Even if it was a placebo thing with his programs. These things are very real, especially in sport.

It's no surprise to me that our game fell apart once our game-plan had been unravelled. I think out of all the great modern day sides that have won flags in the last decade, we've been the most one-dimensional which is why it's been much harder for us to adapt. Which is completely list related. Too many similar types, too many of the same weakness. All ultimately exposed once our system came undone.

I could go on.

Edited June 29Jun 29 by Howard_Grimes

3 hours ago, Howard_Grimes said:

It's a good question and again I think it's a multitude of factors.

Some that all clubs experience when at the top which is the idea and psychology around consistently being the hunted and what comes with that after a period of time. Opposition sides figuring out ways to disarm and undo a game plan. A competition where you need to be constantly evolving.

The thing about our game-plan back then was that we had built a core group who's strengths shone in that particular template and I would say definitely masked obvious weaknesses. But due to how well we were able to execute that game-plan, our weaknesses weren't as much of an issue during that time although they were still very much there. Whether that was the finals series of 22/23 or throughout season campaigns at different stages. Finishing skills, converting shots at goal, execution inside 50 when under little pressure etc. All the same issues.

I also think we possessed what every club at the top goes through which is aura. And with that comes a strong sense of self-belief and confidence. And with a swell of momentum from the footballing world, media and our own supporters through that 21' flag year, you can see how morale, confidence and the psychology around knowing you're the best in it just plays such a huge role.

I think Darren Burgess was another factor. His aura, the confidence he instilled in the players. Even if it was a placebo thing with his programs. These things are very real, especially in sport.

It's no surprise to me that our game fell apart once our game-plan had been unravelled. I think out of all the great modern day sides that have won flags in the last decade, we've been the most one-dimensional which is why it's been much harder for us to adapt. Which is completely list related. Too many similar types, too many of the same weakness. All ultimately exposed once our system came undone.

I could go on.

There was definitely a sycronicity of sorts. Also a kinda perfect storm. Personnel, Performance, Motivation and Circumstance.

We won... and then that all dissipate. Some aspects quickly as other teams unravelled us and our own followed.

The stars aligned. Now they don't

No name jumps out at me, Longmires a non winner, I don’t really mind Kenny as a director of coaching.

15 hours ago, poita said:

The only reason they would be stuck here is because neither is prepared to give up the lifestyle to which they have become accustomed.

Clarry in particular could easily leave at year end if he was prepared to renegotiate his contract. But he won't be traded if we're still paying him $500K a year.

Perhaps. But $500k to get him off our list may end up being the exact thing we need to do. I have seen enough of Oliver to know he ain’t got what it takes anymore. So if we can get rid of him and say get in Bergman and end up paying $500k of Oliver salary is that not a win?

12 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

I’ve heard from a usually unreliable source that Goody will keep his job next year.

Therefore, I’m now assuming he may actually be sacked at years end.

If Goodwin stays I go! simple as that, I hope the full implications of that prey heavily on the board and the judicial decision makers when weighing up the benefits of such actions!

The reality is after our premiership we've failed to win a final & now for 2 seasons in a row failed to make finals.

Our recruits have been duds. I'm talking about senior players like Hunter, billings & Mcadam .

Goody should go for sure, but I’m worried we’ll get a new coach and the fact our list just isn’t that good will be exposed

I want goody gone, but the sentiment here seems to be that we have this incredibly talented list and all we need is “new ideas”, “a fresh voice” etc

I think a new coach won’t improve things that much. We’ve built a list around a style of footy that died in 2022. There are glaring holes in our list (all over the park now, not just up forward) that coaching cannot solve

We’re in worse shape than many realise

1 minute ago, Smokey said:

Goody should go for sure, but I’m worried we’ll get a new coach and the fact our list just isn’t that good will be exposed

I want goody gone, but the sentiment here seems to be that we have this incredibly talented list and all we need is “new ideas”, “a fresh voice” etc

I think a new coach won’t improve things that much. We’ve built a list around a style of footy that died in 2022. There are glaring holes in our list (all over the park now, not just up forward) that coaching cannot solve

We’re in worse shape than many realise

I definitely agree about the state of the list

I think at the start of the year I thought we were just a few tweaks and a good run of form away from making finals again, but now it seems a new list hole is popping up every other week

However I don’t think this should be a reason to retain Goody because to me it doesn’t look like he’s willing to make hard calls on players and their positions to at least address some of these holes in the short term, or at the very least get development into our younger players for the long term

Why isn’t Trac spending 50/50 mid/fwd? Why isn’t Jack spending more time forward (reckon he spent about 5 mins up there at the start of the game on Saturday)? Why isn’t Rivers getting a go in the midfield? Why are players like Windsor and Petty being played out of their best positions?

I could go on - but the point is that while a new coach won’t immediately fix the holes on our list, they can cast a fresh pair of eyes over our players and make decisions about our list and gameplan accordingly

I don’t think after all this time Goody has the willingness or capacity to do this, particular in regards to senior players

Edited June 29Jun 29 by demoncat

21 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Goody should go for sure, but I’m worried we’ll get a new coach and the fact our list just isn’t that good will be exposed

I want goody gone, but the sentiment here seems to be that we have this incredibly talented list and all we need is “new ideas”, “a fresh voice” etc

I think a new coach won’t improve things that much. We’ve built a list around a style of footy that died in 2022. There are glaring holes in our list (all over the park now, not just up forward) that coaching cannot solve

We’re in worse shape than many realise

I'm closer to this way of thinking than the alternative.

We have some great young talent but there are some big time holes and age problems in certain areas. I don't buy into the theory that we have a list bursting at the seems and ready to take off with a new voice.

Midfield depth is average at best with kids either have talent but too young, under 23 but clearly not going to make it or under 23 who have hardly featured in 12 months. Our ruck/key forward succession plan is a mystery and our once dominant duo of May and Lever has 2 more years together at best.

3 years ago I would have found it very hard to find a hole in this list, maybe the lack of a key forward. Now they are popping up like leaks. There is enough there to make it a quick bounce if we make all the right decisions but make no mistake there is a lot of work to be done with our list in the next few years.

9 minutes ago, demoncat said:

Why isn’t Trac spending 50/50 mid/fwd? Why isn’t Jack spending more time forward (reckon he spent about 5 mins up there at the start of the game on Saturday)? Why isn’t Rivers getting a go in the midfield? Why are players like Windsor and Petty being played out of their best positions?

These are fair questions, and I think the answer in a nutshell is a combo of necessity and inflexibility.

I think it was @titan_uranus who mentioned the Viney shift as a problem after the game. Started in the forward line as Goodwin said he would, but then had to go into the middle because we were being massacred at centre bounces. It was pure necessity.

Petracca WAS doing 50/50 midfield forward at the start of the year. His centre bounce attendance stats were very low against North Melbourne, Gold Coast and Geelong. We got obliterated in each of those games, and if you're into stats, in that Gold Coast game they were absolutely dire for centre bounce clearances, clearances, contested possessions, etc. Against Essendon he was at 65% of centre bounces. We got killed again. Against Fremantle he was back to 80% and we won well. He's been at around 80 or 90% in most games since then. Again - necessity.

Rivers, I reckon, was unlucky not to be top three in the B&F last year. And he spent the second half of the year spending a lot of time in the middle. But this coincided exactly with Petracca's injury. They won't play him there unless there's a 'spot'. This year he's played 50 or 60% of games in the middle but again it coincided exactly with Jack Viney's injury.

The glaring problem I see is that Oliver can't really play anywhere else. So it's centre bounce or bust (read bench). That would be fine if he was in good nick. I don't think he is. That leaves just two more spots at any one time. Petracca, down a little bit since his injury, is still too valuable in the middle to play forward. And Pickett is now literally keeping us in games with his midfield stuff. Viney looks to have slowed right down, but certainly helped to stem the bleeding on Saturday.

Petty? Because Jefferson isn't a 'gorilla' forward and JVR may be but is spectacularly out of form. Very interesting to see what they do this week with Petty out and Howes no longer available as the mid defender playing tall.

Windsor? I don't really understand. Chandler, Langford and Lindsay on the wings has worked pretty well. But I'd love to see Langford forward and Windsor back on the wing.

32 minutes ago, demoncat said:

I definitely agree about the state of the list

I think at the start of the year I thought we were just a few tweaks and a good run of form away from making finals again, but now it seems a new list hole is popping up every other week

However I don’t think this should be a reason to retain Goody because to me it doesn’t look like he’s willing to make hard calls on players and their positions to at least address some of these holes in the short term, or at the very least get development into our younger players for the long term

Why isn’t Trac spending 50/50 mid/fwd? Why isn’t Jack spending more time forward (reckon he spent about 5 mins up there at the start of the game on Saturday)? Why isn’t Rivers getting a go in the midfield? Why are players like Windsor and Petty being played out of their best positions?

I could go on - but the point is that while a new coach won’t immediately fix the holes on our list, they can cast a fresh pair of eyes over our players and make decisions about our list and gameplan accordingly

I don’t think after all this time Goody has the willingness or capacity to do this, particular in regards to senior players

The longer the season goes on, particularly one where we’ve had a great run with injuries, the more our list problems come to the fore.

Why isn’t Viney playing forward? Because we got so badly beaten at stoppage in the first quarter, Goodwin felt he had no choice but to put him back in the middle.

It was a disheartening moment IMO. We didn’t stay the course. We planned for Viney to play forward but couldn’t actually do it.

I hope we don’t abandon that plan and try it again this week.

Here’s a thought. Are the inmates running the asylum?

For all of Tracc’s posturing (and demands?) last year, are we a better performing club this year because of it?

For all of our pandering to Oliver, are we a better performing club this year and last?

(In fact, are Tracc and Oliver better players this year as a result of our pandering? On field, Tracc is the epitome of Tracc first, Team second, and for someone who claimed the Club was not professional enough, his disposal is a disgrace, embarrassing and nowhere near professional standard. Clarry is just a shell, and such a sad case).

For all the player “wants” of more away time from the Club, are we a better performing team this year?

For all of Goody’s desire to be “best friends” with the players, has this made us a better performing side these last couple of seasons?

While I have no doubt that many of the players love Goody, I also believe we need someone stronger. Someone who will take back control of the players, so that the horse is once again leading the cart. They don’t need a friend, and they don’t need a sergeant major, but they do need a father figure who can hand out tough love when it’s needed. Goody doesn’t appear to be that man.

While Goody has faced some tough situations, he has to carry the can for the state and performance of our team. For years he had our team deliberately bombing the ball long down the sidelines. Is it no wonder that this is ingrained in our older mids - Viney, Clarry and Tracc - and why they cannot hit shorter targets.

Goody’s game plan of ‘21 now no longer works. (Correction - the fitness side of that game plan still works, but we are just not fit enough). Goody can be compared to a rock band who’s had a major hit, but each new record sounds very much like the old hit.

Last season I think was a huge wake up call for Goody. He realised that most of his players were not skilful enough to play the modern game style. This would normally entail a list rebuild. But the review last year set finals as the minimum pass mark for him. Goody’s dilemma was how to develop a sustainable game plan whose main players were not skilful enough to execute, yet still win enough games to play finals. Impossible task.

A lovely man by all accounts, but sad to say he’s a one hit wonder (and there is nothing wrong with that), who has now lost control over the players and doesn’t have a game plan or personnel to make this club a force again. Time for change.

4 hours ago, dees189227 said:

The reality is after our premiership we've failed to win a final & now for 2 seasons in a row failed to make finals.

Our recruits have been duds. I'm talking about senior players like Hunter, billings & Mcadam .

I have been on the trading disaster since our flag, throw in Schache who was ahead as an emergency over Grundy in 23 finals, on Hunter retiring on 199 games very strange, more to that!

10 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

Here’s a thought. Are the inmates running the asylum?

For all of Tracc’s posturing (and demands?) last year, are we a better performing club this year because of it?

For all of our pandering to Oliver, are we a better performing club this year and last?

(In fact, are Tracc and Oliver better players this year as a result of our pandering? On field, Tracc is the epitome of Tracc first, Team second, and for someone who claimed the Club was not professional enough, his disposal is a disgrace, embarrassing and nowhere near professional standard. Clarry is just a shell, and such a sad case).

For all the player “wants” of more away time from the Club, are we a better performing team this year?

For all of Goody’s desire to be “best friends” with the players, has this made us a better performing side these last couple of seasons?

While I have no doubt that many of the players love Goody, I also believe we need someone stronger. Someone who will take back control of the players, so that the horse is once again leading the cart. They don’t need a friend, and they don’t need a sergeant major, but they do need a father figure who can hand out tough love when it’s needed. Goody doesn’t appear to be that man.

While Goody has faced some tough situations, he has to carry the can for the state and performance of our team. For years he had our team deliberately bombing the ball long down the sidelines. Is it no wonder that this is ingrained in our older mids - Viney, Clarry and Tracc - and why they cannot hit shorter targets.

Goody’s game plan of ‘21 now no longer works. (Correction - the fitness side of that game plan still works, but we are just not fit enough). Goody can be compared to a rock band who’s had a major hit, but each new record sounds very much like the old hit.

Last season I think was a huge wake up call for Goody. He realised that most of his players were not skilful enough to play the modern game style. This would normally entail a list rebuild. But the review last year set finals as the minimum pass mark for him. Goody’s dilemma was how to develop a sustainable game plan whose main players were not skilful enough to execute, yet still win enough games to play finals. Impossible task.

A lovely man by all accounts, but sad to say he’s a one hit wonder (and there is nothing wrong with that), who has now lost control over the players and doesn’t have a game plan or personnel to make this club a force again. Time for change.

Really good post.

It's one big lesson you learn when you step into a management role.

You just can't be best friends with the staff. It just doesn't work.

The whole place smacks of standards not being high enough.

The commentary from Goody about goal kicking accuracy and that sometimes it's better not to practice it to take the pressure off is a prime example.

all high performance sportspeople get into a funk with form at times.

But, the whole place is smelling pretty funky right now.

I know our list isn't great, but it's not completely horrible. Our injury list is pretty light.

You can love each other at your workplace as much as you want but it wears very thin after a while when your processes and team skills are [censored], your workplace is chaotic and disfunctional, you keep getting belted and your customers (supporters) give up on you.

Tracc, Clarry and May as well have all had a spit, but I haven't seen them "knuckle down and be the change" that needs to happen to transform their workplace.

That's no letting Goody off the hook either. He has to drive them to be better.

Too many Ted Lasso fans in the joint?

51 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Goody should go for sure, but I’m worried we’ll get a new coach and the fact our list just isn’t that good will be exposed

I want goody gone, but the sentiment here seems to be that we have this incredibly talented list and all we need is “new ideas”, “a fresh voice” etc

I think a new coach won’t improve things that much. We’ve built a list around a style of footy that died in 2022. There are glaring holes in our list (all over the park now, not just up forward) that coaching cannot solve

We’re in worse shape than many realise

I disagree, yes we can improve our list and we do have some obvious holes, I think a lot of our problems currently are mental, we were late to the party with the way the game is currently being played. Some senior players still carrying baggage, players being played out of position ie Windsor, Petty for me should be down back and Disco fwd as well as young players in and out of the side.

A lot of players on the list won a flag and know where they should be roughly at come the halfway point of the season, the fact we’re not there I think some have already checked out. Not good enough from the players but it is what it is.

Goodwin needs to make way now nor at seasons end.

2 hours ago, layzie said:

I'm closer to this way of thinking than the alternative.

We have some great young talent but there are some big time holes and age problems in certain areas. I don't buy into the theory that we have a list bursting at the seems and ready to take off with a new voice.

Midfield depth is average at best with kids either have talent but too young, under 23 but clearly not going to make it or under 23 who have hardly featured in 12 months. Our ruck/key forward succession plan is a mystery and our once dominant duo of May and Lever has 2 more years together at best.

3 years ago I would have found it very hard to find a hole in this list, maybe the lack of a key forward. Now they are popping up like leaks. There is enough there to make it a quick bounce if we make all the right decisions but make no mistake there is a lot of work to be done with our list in the next few years.

The lack of a KPF is a very damning stain for what was our premiership window between 2022 and 2024.

12 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I disagree, yes we can improve our list and we do have some obvious holes, I think a lot of our problems currently are mental, we were late to the party with the way the game is currently being played. Some senior players still carrying baggage, players being played out of position ie Windsor, Petty for me should be down back and Disco fwd as well as young players in and out of the side.

A lot of players on the list won a flag and know where they should be roughly at come the halfway point of the season, the fact we’re not there I think some have already checked out. Not good enough from the players but it is what it is.

Goodwin needs to make way now nor at seasons end.

We definitely don't have a bottom 5 list. At least in my opinion.

We may be middle of the road, borderline top 8.

The damning part is (what most likely will be) two bottom 5 finishes in a row.

11 hours ago, bluey said:

I don’t really mind Kenny as a director of coaching.

where he would succeed where richardson has failed is as a media performer

kenny is a natural in that regard; he has them eating out of his hand on a regular basis

Edited June 30Jun 30 by whatwhat say what

1 hour ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I disagree, yes we can improve our list and we do have some obvious holes, I think a lot of our problems currently are mental, we were late to the party with the way the game is currently being played. Some senior players still carrying baggage, players being played out of position ie Windsor, Petty for me should be down back and Disco fwd as well as young players in and out of the side.

A lot of players on the list won a flag and know where they should be roughly at come the halfway point of the season, the fact we’re not there I think some have already checked out. Not good enough from the players but it is what it is.

Goodwin needs to make way now nor at seasons end.

On the weekend as my good wife and I made our way through the pokies at Brissy Casino to get to the skydeck... I was struck by an epiphany ( no one saw it and the offender got away... ) . Looking across the sea of blinking lights and cacophony of tunes it struck me. This is us. This is Melbourne

???

These intrepid warriors of chance sit there investing of themselves with or without luck. Some might after a not too long wait get a feature or two, some hit a Jackpot. Strangely many don't take it but see this as some devine sign of provenance and continue to 'reinvest' only to see it all dwindled away. They just didn't know when to call it quits.

That's us... managed a jackpot but got caught up in the razamataz ( uh - ooh !! ) before you know it we back to where we were, struggle street.

I'm not advocating Goody should have gone after 21. That's folly. But we were very lucky and the circumstances soon changed. We didn't, but all but everything around us did and we got caught napping.

The writing for those literate in these things , was on the wall end of 23. It was. Some saw it then, many since are understanding it now.

Sometimes you need to do things at the right time lest you're sitting there at a machine flashing "WINNER" ... but the money has somehow evaporated away.

Oh.. the skydeck ...bit average. Loved Brissy.

Go Dees

Wake up ffs.

Walk away 😉

Its time to go Goody.

Goody has failed ti imprint on the players a game plan based on how the game is now played.

Until that is fixed its very much deckchairs on the Titanic areas.

I think we have good young talent on the list. But unless we have a competitive instinctive game plan nothing changes.

40 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

On the weekend as my good wife and I made our way through the pokies at Brissy Casino to get to the skydeck... I was struck by an epiphany ( no one saw it and the offender got away... ) . Looking across the sea of blinking lights and cacophony of tunes it struck me. This is us. This is Melbourne

???

These intrepid warriors of chance sit there investing of themselves with or without luck. Some might after a not too long wait get a feature or two, some hit a Jackpot. Strangely many don't take it but see this as some devine sign of provenance and continue to 'reinvest' only to see it all dwindled away. They just didn't know when to call it quits.

That's us... managed a jackpot but got caught up in the razamataz ( uh - ooh !! ) before you know it we back to where we were, struggle street.

I'm not advocating Goody should have gone after 21. That's folly. But we were very lucky and the circumstances soon changed. We didn't, but all but everything around us did and we got caught napping.

The writing for those literate in these things , was on the wall end of 23. It was. Some saw it then, many since are understanding it now.

Sometimes you need to do things at the right time lest you're sitting there at a machine flashing "WINNER" ... but the money has somehow evaporated away.

Oh.. the skydeck ...bit average. Loved Brissy.

Go Dees

Wake up ffs.

Walk away 😉

It was always going to be hard to justify letting Simon go in 2023 after the flag.

However, one do wonders if it was a mistake to extend his contract 2 years no strings attached before we knew the outcome of the finals that year.

1 minute ago, ElDiablo14 said:

It was always going to be hard to justify letting Simon go in 2023 after the flag.

However, one do wonders if it was a mistake to extend his contract 2 years no strings attached before we knew the outcome of the finals that year.

Remember at the time he'd had a few articles attacking his character a few weeks before. Felt like the admin just wanted to back him in and show strong support. Think they jumped at shadows. He still had a year to go on his contract.