30 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

We did this last year minus a brilliant Trac and a half fit Clarry.

We lost to eventual prelim finalist Port by 2 points. We lost to eventual semi finalist GWS by 2 points. And we lost to the eventual premier Brisbane by 5 points (in Brisbane, where very few away sides win) after a dodging free kick was awarded near the death.

We've overcorrected. And the way to beat the modern game will be the defence first game that is able to slow ball movement and beat up teams at the contest. We were experts at this for 2-3 years.

IMV, we need the play the game style that is something akin to the start of last year, but with more aggressive forward handball (see Round 1), and play to the strengths of our midfield bulls (and our defenders), and help out those poor ball users by having good ball users around them (McVee, Salem, Bowey, Lindsay, Langford, Windsor).

Fitness has a huge question mark above it, because to play as well that way, we need to be able to run out four quarters, which we show no sign of doing. But this is what we should do. Do I have faith in Goody being able to revert to this and get the players playing to this vision? That's a different answer.

Yeah fair enough, strong points. I guess that’s a part of my point though, we can definitely limit teams scoring, that has never been our issue, we can’t score enough, even when winning inside 50’s constantly. If we don’t fix this, we’re just rinse and repeating the last few years IMO. We’ll have close games for sure but the better teams will find a way to score when they need to.

The scores against us this year I put down to how unacceptably poor our pressure is across the entire ground. So naturally, teams are going to score more when they are allowed time and space to execute what we’ve given them.

I remember hearing an interesting stat on SEN a while ago, which was 17 out of the last 18 flags have been won by teams in the top 3 for scoring from the back half. So yes, we need good defence, good movement from the back half, but it all counts for nothing if we just give the ball back in our F50 with garbage entries.

And thus we get to the crux of the issue: our entries are rubbish and ineffectual, our forwards look lost, our small forwards offer very little pressure (whole team issue) and we still can’t score enough.

I agree wholeheartedly about the players you mentioned that need the ball in their hand also. They have to be delivering inside 50, so play them in the best positions to do that. Tracc/Viney/Oliver have to get them the ball on the outside and they have to be on the outside. That 3 as a combination should also be finished. Invest in the younger guys.

Is this some sort of reverse psychology. Or a lack of any psychology altogether?

Asking for a friend @Superunknown

https://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/1757349/media-conference-focuses-defence-the-key?fbclid=IwY2xjawJsDmpleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHrOL2iUM__HlP1_acaZ9JklbuR08-jTHHO-79-OWzS6rESoprLhvFVQipJ7h_aem_2iOA2XJQFw7WS6x27KdSEw

Edited April 16Apr 16 by Brownie

3 hours ago, jnrmac said:

We had 16 premiership players against the Bombers. Talent is not our issue.

It can't be any more obvious that it's coaching, selection, leadership, pride, fight

Just to clarify, my comment was a reaction to the original poster who has made many,many excuses in this thread, all firmly denying that our woeful efforts this season were anything to do with Goodwin or the players. According to him/her it was all to do with players needing more time to adjust to the “supposedly” “new” “game-plan”. Only now has that person suggested that “we’re not good enough”. Hence my post.

IMO our current state of demise is due to 1. The attitude of our senior players. 2. The lack of depth in the List. 3. Goodwin.

Also, the origin goes back to the Off Season immediately after the flag.

Finally, as I have previously said here, I believe the time to act on Goodwin could/should have been after the unacceptable and inept performance of the North loss.

5 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Seeing Luke Hodge’s brief but scathing analysis on Agenda Setters of our forward play against Essendon just does my head in. It was admittedly, a small sample size of vision from behind the goals of our F50 entries. Examples of midfielders getting the ball at 70m, in space but just booting to an out numbered forward, ignoring running players clear in the corridor or forwards not leading to space to provide a target. As Hodge said this is under 12’s stuff and it’s not AFL standard but it’s been the same for 4 years! You would see better forward strategy (if not execution) at your local suburban ground with part time players and coach.

Meanwhile Simon seems to talking about our need to improve our defending to stifle the opposition’s ball movement, which is very difficult to do against sides moving the ball as quickly and precisely as Brisbane, Collingwood, Hawthorn and (no doubt we will find out this week) Freo, especially if you are not scoring.

Yeah clips like that is why I scoff at the notion that we don't have the players to play an attacking game style. We've had 50 inside 50s two weeks in a row, we're currently rated 3rd in the competion for ball movment but we still haven't figured out a simple forward set up. Our players just bomb it out of contests rather than taking an easy handball or moving the ball laterally. These are not terribly difficult things to fix, most clubs can do it, but we struggle with it so much.

10 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Yeah clips like that is why I scoff at the notion that we don't have the players to play an attacking game style. We've had 50 inside 50s two weeks in a row, we're currently rated 3rd in the competion for ball movment but we still haven't figured out a simple forward set up. Our players just bomb it out of contests rather than taking an easy handball or moving the ball laterally. These are not terribly difficult things to fix, most clubs can do it, but we struggle with it so much.

I fear not much will change until we secure a new coach. To me it looks like we’ve thrown out the baby with the bat water

Hope the Doggies miss the finals & we get Beveridge, he’ll shake the joint up a bit & wont be worried about making plenty of selection changes

Just now, Roost it far said:

I fear not much will change until we secure a new coach. To me it looks like we’ve thrown out the baby with the bat water

I've said this before but to me it looks like we've overcomplicated things in the process of trying to play a completely different way rather than having a simple gameplan that we can perfect and then build on top of. I think the players are getting confusing/conflicting instructions which is why all they keep making poor decisions and second-guessing themselves. I don't think we're well drilled at all in how we're supposed to be playing.

1 minute ago, KozzyCan said:

I've said this before but to me it looks like we've overcomplicated things in the process of trying to play a completely different way rather than having a simple gameplan that we can perfect and then build on top of. I think the players are getting confusing/conflicting instructions which is why all they keep making poor decisions and second-guessing themselves. I don't think we're well drilled at all in how we're supposed to be playing.

Getting the mids to look laterally and the forwards to lead at the carrier really shouldn’t be that hard.

30 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Yeah clips like that is why I scoff at the notion that we don't have the players to play an attacking game style. We've had 50 inside 50s two weeks in a row, we're currently rated 3rd in the competion for ball movment but we still haven't figured out a simple forward set up. Our players just bomb it out of contests rather than taking an easy handball or moving the ball laterally. These are not terribly difficult things to fix, most clubs can do it, but we struggle with it so much.

So true but are the ball carriers even being asked to lower the eyes, look for closer options inboard? I have watched on replays so many times, Viney and Oliver repeatedly just kick long and ignore handball options but at least they were often in traffic. The 3 examples the Hodge showed the ball carriers were clear, with time and space, yet ignored unmarked players inboard and kicked directly toward their “stationary” forward targets. It is just mind boggling that it hasn’t been hammered into the players to look for the short option. And replay after replay shows the forwards just retreating from the ball carrier, no one leading at the ball carrier or into space to run onto a pass.

The coaches and players must be running this vision after every loss yet nothing changes in F50. I just can not understand what is going on. It looks like a simple solution to at least get us back competing and scoring more than 60 pts a match. In 4 out of 5 matches we have somehow won the inside 50 count but barely managed a 20% scoring efficiency! Oh and we are 18th for set shot goal kicking accuracy! Lord give me strength!

3 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

So true but are the ball carriers even being asked to lower the eyes, look for closer options inboard? I have watched on replays so many times, Viney and Oliver repeatedly just kick long and ignore handball options but at least they were often in traffic. The 3 examples the Hodge showed the ball carriers were clear, with time and space, yet ignored unmarked players inboard and kicked directly toward their “stationary” forward targets. It is just mind boggling that it hasn’t been hammered into the players to look for the short option. And replay after replay shows the forwards just retreating from the ball carrier, no one leading at the ball carrier or into space to run onto a pass.

The coaches and players must be running this vision after every loss yet nothing changes in F50. I just can not understand what is going on. It looks like a simple solution to at least get us back competing and scoring more than 60 pts a match. In 4 out of 5 matches we have somehow won the inside 50 count but barely managed a 20% scoring efficiency! Oh and we are 18th for set shot goal kicking accuracy! Lord give me strength!

Couldn't have said it better. Absolutely does my head in.

5 hours ago, Earl Hood said:

Meanwhile Simon seems to talking about our need to improve our defending to stifle the opposition’s ball movement, which is very difficult to do against sides moving the ball as quickly and precisely as Brisbane, Collingwood, Hawthorn and (no doubt we will find out this week) Freo, especially if you are not scoring.

I might not be too smart, but surely if we stopped our turnovers in the forward half (by smart targeting, rather than long bombing, as well as even numbers up forward) this will stifle a lot of the opposition fast turnover ball movement - and thus reduce both the pressure on our defenders and the opposition scoring. Which would negate the need for stifling defensive tactics, and boring play.

http://spr.ly/6183FAN8H

This is a really good article by Rohan Connolly, sums the predicament we are in now & the acceptance that’s it all over for this group

The discussions about Melbourne's inside 50s are very reminiscent of Hitler's Operation Barbarossa... it's all well and good to get "inside 50s" but this stat does not add to our scores heat.

8 hours ago, poita said:

For those who remember the Late Show in the early 90s, Goodwin's press conference yesterday reminded me of this excellent segment.

Loved the late show, has the best bits vol 1 & 2 and has watched th

8 hours ago, Superunknown said:

Classic. I have the double DVD best of. The bit where Rob sitch is playing yasser Arafat and Santo comes into the side to dry his dishes. Mercy.

Or sh&&t scared with sitch and Molloy - copperart.

You couldn’t make that show today, nor much of the stuff fast forward and the comedy co did. Golden age of comedy

And I’m only 45!

[censored] scared when Robs on the motorbike and Mick puts the ramp facing the wrong way.

The all male camp where they discuss what it is to be a man.

I need a trip to JB HIFI.

I know many on this discussion board dislike the media and conjecture that it is systematically 'out to get us' (US = MFC). The reality is that the media is commercially focused and the MFC (admin, plauyers, coach etc) keeps giving the journalists material upon which to make sales.

Having said that, the Guardian's newsletter 'From the Pocket' , which comes out each Wednesday made some good observations today about the MFC situation.

The summary of today's newsletter - https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2025/apr/16/from-the-pocket-afl-newsletter-melbourne-demons-simon-goodwin-max-gawn carried the title 'Love and optimism turns to despair as Melbourne reach end of an era' and is in my view quite balanced and insightful.

Two excerpts capture my sentiment on the current state:

The lunatics who abuse them after games (and film themselves doing so) always accuse them of lacking effort. But if anything, they’re a team that’s trying too hard. If anything, they’re too committed to Goodwin’s rigid way of playing. Everything – from the way they win the ball, to the way they move it, to the way they explain themselves afterwards – is laboured.

Their senior players are down on form, but most are trying their guts out.

And:

Compared to most sports around the world, the modern AFL coach gets a lot of time and a lot of leeway. Goodwin has been at the club for more than a decade and is contracted until the end of next year. But the era of “contest and dee-fence” is over. The game has moved on and Goodwin’s side hasn’t moved with it. If they lose to the Dockers this Saturday, they should shake hands with the coach, handle it with dignity and look for a replacement.

That's what should happen - shake hands, maintain dignity for all and move on.

16 minutes ago, Billy said:

http://spr.ly/6183FAN8H

This is a really good article by Rohan Connolly, sums the predicament we are in now & the acceptance that’s it all over for this group

Oof, that's a hard read.

I really enjoyed his counter-tide piece last year, offering hope and common sense.

Also, this stat (yuck)

The Demons have won just four of 16 games since Alice Springs. And eight of those 12 defeats have been by 38 points or more.

Some positivity from Hoyne this week. 3rd fastest ball movement team and 5th best ball movement team.

Still a lot to be desired, and it still might be too late in the season for it to matter, but the new system has had some success.

Just now, MrFreeze said:

Some positivity from Hoyne this week. 3rd fastest ball movement team and 5th best ball movement team.

Still a lot to be desired, and it still might be too late in the season for it to matter, but the new system has had some success.

Equal last

All those stats mean sfa

3 hours ago, MrFreeze said:

Some positivity from Hoyne this week. 3rd fastest ball movement team and 5th best ball movement team.

Still a lot to be desired, and it still might be too late in the season for it to matter, but the new system has had some success.

What success is that exactly? We are 0-5 and had losses of 39,39,58,59 points. And we visually look like we are playing like [censored]. In those losses we’ve kicked 9,9,8 and 6 goals for a whole game.

Edited April 16Apr 16 by SFebes

Everybody outside the club seems to be an expert on what's going on inside the club.

5 hours ago, bush demon said:

The discussions about Melbourne's inside 50s are very reminiscent of Hitler's Operation Barbarossa... it's all well and good to get "inside 50s" but this stat does not add to our scores heat.

And our poor forwards feel like those poor soldiers stationed in Stalingrad during the bitter cold winter of 1943.

On 15/04/2025 at 20:16, bing181 said:

Because you need players with the appropriate skillset.

To an extent but I think this is overplayed. A lot comes down to coaching, giving clear direction etc

I think the players are being over coached leading to the stifling ball movement we see and players resorting to bombs into a crowded forward line. A huge part of it is poor forward coaching, the players forward of the ball need to be coached to make space so it is easier for the ball carrier to deliver it to their advantage. Stagnant, crowded forward lines will never succeed.

12 hours ago, Adam The God said:

We did this last year minus a brilliant Trac and a half fit Clarry.

We lost to eventual prelim finalist Port by 2 points. We lost to eventual semi finalist GWS by 2 points. And we lost to the eventual premier Brisbane by 5 points (in Brisbane, where very few away sides win) after a dodging free kick was awarded near the death.

We've overcorrected. And the way to beat the modern game will be the defence first game that is able to slow ball movement and beat up teams at the contest. We were experts at this for 2-3 years.

IMV, we need the play the game style that is something akin to the start of last year, but with more aggressive forward handball (see Round 1), and play to the strengths of our midfield bulls (and our defenders), and help out those poor ball users by having good ball users around them (McVee, Salem, Bowey, Lindsay, Langford, Windsor).

Fitness has a huge question mark above it, because to play as well that way, we need to be able to run out four quarters, which we show no sign of doing. But this is what we should do. Do I have faith in Goody being able to revert to this and get the players playing to this vision? That's a different answer.

If we were to do that Kings Bday 2023 should be the blueprint.

9 hours ago, Roost it far said:

Viney and Oliver should be flat out banned from kicking and both need to start running harder both ways.

The problem with this is Viney often gets on the end of handball chains or clearances because he has worked hard to create space. His disposal has been poor but I can't fault his endeavour. Against Essendon you could see him looking to give the hand off but no-one there so he had to kick.

While it looks like a really bad decision to give him the 3 year contract extension (on top of this year) I don't like the pile on I've seen from Melbourne supporters - he is a great of the club and heart and soul player. Think about where we were when he joined and he had the fortitude to stick with the club and see it becomes successful.

5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

To an extent but I think this is overplayed. A lot comes down to coaching, giving clear direction etc

Watch AFL360 with Simpson and Langmuir and get back to us. Simpson especially talks about trying to change the WCE approach at the end of 2021, even bringing in assistant coaches who were more across what they were trying to do - and how it failed because he didn't have the players who could play the way they wanted. When talking about the Dees he says it outright: "the biggest thing is going to be does the personnel fit the change (in game style)?"

He elaborated a bit on his WCE experience: "we tried to press behind with our ball movement, but our players weren't built for that, so that's what I got wrong."

(As an aside, gutsy of him to admit his mistakes so publicly, he didn't need to.)

Longmuir is also very big on the need for the playing style and personnel to mesh (uses the word frequently in this context).

Edited April 16Apr 16 by bing181