5 hours ago, Brownie said:

This is on the coaches first and foremost and then the onfield leadership.

Depends what they're being instructed to do.

Also, Bucks countered the "handball to a free player" with "if you can get it inside 50 it's for you to do it, rather than taking the extra disposal".

You can understand the latter as an instruction in the interests of rapid ball movement. No, it's not working, but you can see why they might try to go there.

BTW, hard to see how what Lewis said backed up "has zero strategy and zero recognition of suggestions". Lewis was speaking about strategies that Yze was putting in place, i.e., Yze was making suggestions and being empowered to run with them.

Edited April 14Apr 14 by bing181

Speaking of On The Couch, some damning footage of Jack Viney letting his man (Menzie) run in for a receive, which then led to a mark and goal.

Painful to see.

Edited April 14Apr 14 by bing181

And AFL 360. For Lyon, it's all about what's going on I50. "5th best in the comp for moving the ball from D50 to I50, but then 3rd worst for scoring."

22 minutes ago, bing181 said:

For Lyon, it's all about what's going on I50.

Stat reader...

Not sure what Buckley said on his show tonight but was on the money this morning with his comment that we don't look a happy team.

That's what it's really all about, this is not a unified group at the moment.

4 hours ago, rjay said:

Stat reader...

Not sure what Buckley said on his show tonight but was on the money this morning with his comment that we don't look a happy team.

That's what it's really all about, this is not a unified group at the moment.

That is what I take out of the season so far, we don’t seem unified.

I wouldn’t call it selfishness, maybe individuals are trying too hard to be the ‘I need to do something to get us going’ type of thing.

In 2021 we didn’t talk off the field, we just did. Early rounds of 2021 in a game against the Cats I remember we laid 6 tackles in the last 31 seconds of the game and we were up by 4-5 goals. This season we can barely pressure the ball carrier.

4 hours ago, rjay said:

Stat reader...

Not sure what Buckley said on his show tonight but was on the money this morning with his comment that we don't look a happy team.

That's what it's really all about, this is not a unified group at the moment.

Fn oath they shouldn’t be happy. I’d be furious if they were. They need to stop moping about and get to work.

12 hours ago, bing181 said:

There's equally an argument that if Goodwin goes players who are close to him will be more inclined to leave. And it seems that a lot of the players are close to Goodwin.

As for wanting this performance rot to end immediately, I admire you for believing in miracles. Unfortunately ...

Possibly.

I'd counter is that the end of the world if some did ? Some will look to leave anyway .

Melbourne is in a MESS. If we have to prune the Roses harshly then so be it.

Football is far more fluid re people now.

I really couldn't give a fig who wears our jumper, who coaches, who leads, who follows or cuts up the bloody oranges. I just want a highly competitive team .

If players want greener pastures, better 'relationships' or Kumbayah Karaoke ...well good for them.

5 hours ago, bing181 said:

And AFL 360. For Lyon, it's all about what's going on I50. "5th best in the comp for moving the ball from D50 to I50, but then 3rd worst for scoring."

The forward issues are really obvious. But the alarm bells are in defence as well. We have gone from the hardest team to win one on one contests against to the easiest in no time. Our defenders are losing 42.9% of one on one contests. That must be an AFL all time low if it continues.

I think our current predicament is as much or more on the playing leadership group than Goody. Several of them mentioned the session at Staffords farm where they hashed out their values as the turning point in 21. Others mentioned the offseason work on culture that Goody wasn’t involved in as important. Our success was despite an off field mess at that time. So the playing leadership need to stand up again and take matters into their own hands and honestly hold each other to account starting with why our forwards don’t lead, why our mids bomb it long all the time, and why our defenders can’t win a one on one.

Whether Goody stays or goes, nothing will change unless our players lead the club out of this mess, like they did in 2021.

1 hour ago, Watson11 said:

The forward issues are really obvious. But the alarm bells are in defence as well. We have gone from the hardest team to win one on one contests against to the easiest in no time. Our defenders are losing 42.9% of one on one contests. That must be an AFL all time low if it continues.

I think our current predicament is as much or more on the playing leadership group than Goody. Several of them mentioned the session at Staffords farm where they hashed out their values as the turning point in 21. Others mentioned the offseason work on culture that Goody wasn’t involved in as important. Our success was despite an off field mess at that time. So the playing leadership need to stand up again and take matters into their own hands and honestly hold each other to account starting with why our forwards don’t lead, why our mids bomb it long all the time, and why our defenders can’t win a one on one.

Whether Goody stays or goes, nothing will change unless our players lead the club out of this mess, like they did in 2021.

The primary role of a coach is to get the best out of the players, so it is on Goodwin. Our gameplan hasn't changed since 2021. Our mids have always bombed it long, even in 2021.

The players are devoid of confidence, and it's all on Goodwin. Under a new coach, I can see us turning things around, provided that we keep all our top end talent. If Goodwin stays, I fear that we'll have a mass exodus.

Edited April 15Apr 15 by mo64

The worst thing that could happen right now is if we win a few and buy Goodwin more time, I've seen enough to know that it will go back to how it always does, we've seen years of the same old mistakes.

4 minutes ago, SFebes said:

The worst thing that could happen right now is if we win a few and buy Goodwin more time, I've seen enough to know that it will go back to how it always does, we've seen years of the same old mistakes.

Be nothing more than a Dead Cat bounce imho

13 hours ago, Brownie said:

Jordan Lewis backed this up a fair bit tonight on the couch.

Showed vision of how our centre clearance and dump kicks into f50 has come back in as a really bad habit.

He said he was there when Yze came on board and changed their clearance work to look for the right handball and outside runners to carry it to the arc before kicking or even shooting at goal.

You know, bang, bang, bang kinda stuff.

But it's disappeared

This is on the coaches first and foremost and then the onfield leadership.

I was impressed the Yze example. A big reason for our 2021 success.

Buckley also said it looks a coaching instruction to kick it long to i50 from a clearance. That makes sense as not all players would bomb it long all the time!

If so its no surprise players are confused: do they 'use the space' and HB ala Yze methond or do they kick long i50.

Jones, Radford and Goodwin need get their message clear. It is no wonder we scored 1 pt from 16 clearances on Saturday

1 hour ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I was impressed the Yze example. A big reason for our 2021 success.

Buckley also said it looks a coaching instruction to kick it long to i50 from a clearance. That makes sense as not all players would bomb it long all the time!

If so its no surprise players are confused: do they 'use the space' and HB ala Yze methond or do they kick long i50.

Jones, Radford and Goodwin need get their message clear. It is no wonder we scored 1 pt from 16 clearances on Saturday

I thought the examples they showed demonstrated how easily we be scoring from Centre clearance, that extra handball which brings your spare basically to the 50 line. 2 things from there, you can have a nice look at kicking the goal yourself, or eventually the defence get caught between defending the 50 or coming up to stop the kick sending them into a scramble.

If goody is coaching us to ignore that option I’ll eat my hat.

Just pay him out so we can all move on, why drag out the inevitable….

2 minutes ago, Pipefitter said:

I thought the examples they showed demonstrated how easily we be scoring from Centre clearance, that extra handball which brings your spare basically to the 50 line. 2 things from there, you can have a nice look at kicking the goal yourself, or eventually the defence get caught between defending the 50 or coming up to stop the kick sending them into a scramble.

If goody is coaching us to ignore that option I’ll eat my hat.

Th first part is what Lewis described Yze brought to the club.

Goodwin may not be saying ignore that option at all but he may be training/playing for territory in the front half.

2 hours ago, SFebes said:

The worst thing that could happen right now is if we win a few and buy Goodwin more time, I've seen enough to know that it will go back to how it always does, we've seen years of the same old mistakes.

Even if we win 2-3 of our next games it's only going to buy Goodwin a month or two. Our draw is brutal after we play West Coast. It could get really ugly.

4 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Even if we win 2-3 of our next games it's only going to buy Goodwin a month or two. Our draw is brutal after we play West Coast. It could get really ugly.

It IS ugly

I think Goodwin is like the captain of the Titanic

He refused to see the ice bergs

He refused to change course and foresee the danger

Goodwin is living in denial

“It will turn eventually”. Goodwin is basing this on hope more than strategy.

FTR, the sooner we move on Goodwin, the better. Chaplin takes over in the meantime.

I've been a Goodwin fan and the trendline before the 21 flag was clearly up, but now it's obviously down and you've got to read it. I was optimistic we could turn things around this year and the FD had credits in the bank but they’re all spent now.

We probably can't pull the trigger until the new CEO is in place, hopefully it's someone with sufficient veritas and gumption.

IMV there's plenty to gain by acting quickly, we can get in early with the selection process and beat other teams to the drop of the ball e.g. the Dogs. If we go for an assistant coach without senior experience (my preference) then we have time to line up a mentor to replace Richardson e.g. Ken Hinkley or Luke Beveridge - these things take runway to get lift off (it always makes me laugh when there's a hue and cry about players discussing trades during the season, whentf are they supposed to do it - during trade period?).

Even if an assistant can't be released to join us because his team is playing finals e.g. Scott Burns at Adelaide, at least he can be in communication, including with players, about list changes for this season which, to say the least, are critical given the Oliver, Petracca, Pickett, Fritsch situations.

I don’t think for a moment that all the problems are coaching problems but we need to continue the changes we're making there next.

Edited April 15Apr 15 by old55

11 hours ago, bing181 said:

Depends what they're being instructed to do.

Also, Bucks countered the "handball to a free player" with "if you can get it inside 50 it's for you to do it, rather than taking the extra disposal".

I took that as Buckley inferring that if players are ignoring / burning outside receivers / runners with an extra handball or two, and instead just banging it in there, that they might be doing because they were under instruction.

And if my memory is correct, that's when Lewis jumped in and mentioned that under Yze they were def instructed to look to get it to outside runners / receivers (if free) by hand.

Edited April 15Apr 15 by Demon Dynasty

On 14/04/2025 at 10:17, spirit of norm smith said:

Thanks to Cameron Burt

Simon Goodwin’s coaching record since taking over in 2017:

49-17-1 with Yze

51-60 without Yze

Goodwin has zero strategy and zero recognition of suggestions

I am sick of his LEARNINGS dialogue

Add Darren Burgess to those figures

Both he and Yze were crucial for success. There is no way Goodwin wins a Flag without them both

5 hours ago, Watson11 said:

The forward issues are really obvious. But the alarm bells are in defence as well. We have gone from the hardest team to win one on one contests against to the easiest in no time. Our defenders are losing 42.9% of one on one contests. That must be an AFL all time low if it continues.

I think our current predicament is as much or more on the playing leadership group than Goody. Several of them mentioned the session at Staffords farm where they hashed out their values as the turning point in 21. Others mentioned the offseason work on culture that Goody wasn’t involved in as important. Our success was despite an off field mess at that time. So the playing leadership need to stand up again and take matters into their own hands and honestly hold each other to account starting with why our forwards don’t lead, why our mids bomb it long all the time, and why our defenders can’t win a one on one.

Whether Goody stays or goes, nothing will change unless our players lead the club out of this mess, like they did in 2021.

All good points. The defence and lack of pressure hasn't been there (consistently to AFL averages) since about Rnd 8 2024.

That last para i'm not totally convinced.

The playing group in general (not always and some players not as proficient as others at executing of course. Exceptions to the rule, out of form / not match fit or capable etc) plays as it is trained.

I see that as a 50/50 shared task. And if they can't execute after being given plenty of opportunity to do so, it's the coach/es job to find alternatives that can.

4 hours ago, SFebes said:

The worst thing that could happen right now is if we win a few and buy Goodwin more time, I've seen enough to know that it will go back to how it always does, we've seen years of the same old mistakes.

I don’t think if we beat tigers and wc in consecutive weeks anyone would have there mind changed if we still goto the bye at 3 wins 11 losses or something of that nature, even if we went 50/50 for the next 9 games that’s still 4.5 wins and 9.5 losses, Goodwin isn’t surviving bar a miracle turn round. The decision will be officially made after the bye imo.

I actually liked Goodwins press conference today.

I acknowledge we are doing terrible, and his time is probably at an end.

But I am expecting us to respond, we are playing way below ourselves at the moment. (mind you i have been saying this the past 3 weeks 😅)

One win could get the monkey off the back, free the shackles and build a bit of confidence.

On 14/04/2025 at 10:55, roy11 said:

I was happy to give Goody until the end of the season and approach calmly, but we're in danger of

1) having contracted players wanting to leave
2) scaring off Free Agents

One way or another we need this performance rot to end immediately.

In danger? We already have which is incredible given the talent on our list and the recent premiership. Houston etc.