I fully understand the arguments that suggest little can/may change . These are often supported by any number of studies and statistics.  But I often wonder upon what suppositions and criteria. 

I would concur with those outcomes being demonstrably similar ( I.e. little substantive change ) if all that has transpired is but a like for like,or like for similar change in management/coaching/leadership.  There is without doubt a logic to that.

I reminded though of Chess. Here we have a battle royale that epitomises how things can change dramatically dependant upon design and implementation.  Both combatants have EXACTLY  the same teams combined of only 6 different types of players in differing numbers ( but same to both ) 

The field is defined, the abilities of the field players is understood.  But outcomes are going to vary considerably upon the direction of the competing adversaries. 

As the late great JSM would ponder, why is this so ??  It comes down to understanding how nuanced moves can differ from one advocate to another. It's often the smaller minor things that have a butterfly effect.  A better understanding of causality. Tactics and Strategy are the key. The players haven't changed. What they can/can't  do remains the same. Only direction therefore can be the attributive difference. 

We play chess very poorly at Melbourne.

Is there indeed a more predictable team ? 

If we can't wholesale change the list , then what ?

It's  not too hard to think of 'what' 

Good luck Dees. 2 games in and already fairly and squarely looking down the barrel.

 

 

TBH, it doesn't matter. We won't sack him during the season—the board stated as much when we were sacking coaches midseason because it is too destabilizing. 

Unfortunately, if we don't win this weekend, we are staring at being 0-4 to start the season, and with games ess and freo to follow, we could very well be 0-6 going into anzac eve. If that becomes 0-7, the vultures will be having a deserved field day. 

9 minutes ago, biggestred said:

TBH, it doesn't matter. We won't sack him during the season—the board stated as much when we were sacking coaches midseason because it is too destabilizing. 

Unfortunately, if we don't win this weekend, we are staring at being 0-4 to start the season, and with games ess and freo to follow, we could very well be 0-6 going into anzac eve. If that becomes 0-7, the vultures will be having a deserved field day. 

I actually find the notion of destabilising this team desirable.

Needs one he'll of a shake up.

35 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

We play chess very poorly at Melbourne.

Like Garry Lyon said on 360 last night, we are 17th for contested marks inside 50 in the past 2.5 years despite running a 3 KPF F50 with Gawn also floating down there and bombing the ball in to give plenty of contested mark opportunities. 

If that stat alone doesnt tell you all you need to know about how predictably dumb and easy to game plan against we are nothing will. 

Edited March 24Mar 24 by BringBackTheDemon

4 hours ago, beelzebub said:

That's one view....

Another..

Same ingredients...  possibly a variation on a recipe....  different  chef can result in a very different meal. 

The point being you can't just assume that a different coach will utilise his assets in essentially the same manner. Logic suggests the opposite.  

Goodwin hit his peak in 21...

Been all downhill since..... just how far down the mountain do you want to slide ? 

There is absolutely no consistency about Melbourne at present. 

There hasn't been since last year.

Even more, for many reasons his whole tenure has been a roller coaster. A fun one most of the time, but a roller coaster in deed.

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

I actually find the notion of destabilising this team desirable.

Needs one he'll of a shake up.

Crisis can be opportunities.

Very concerning that:

1) We're still losing games with more inside 50's but getting spanked in inside 50's efficiency, which speaks to a dysfunctional forward line on the one hand, and a loose defensive unit on the other -admittedly we're missing our best defender.

2) As per last year, the effort, pressure and determination already appears to be conditional based off 2 games. The effort was chalk and cheese between round 1 and 2.

I'm not as bullish as others that the returns of May, Windsor, Kozzie and McVee are going to be like waving the magic wand and all will be sunshine and lollypops. 

The return of a fully fit Oliver and Trac hasn't appeared to be that magic bullet we'd hoped for.

Maybe get this guy to help

If Max is ok with it, everyone else should be too.

I hope this shuts people up. 

15 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Maybe get this guy to help

Ironically Goodwin has also always been about the "process" ..  trust in the process.

I actually agree with that as it goes.  Sort of ( kinda ) mirrors Saban.

We've obviously just got the wrong process  🙄  😉 

18 minutes ago, Ghostwriter said:

If Max is ok with it, everyone else should be too.

I hope this shuts people up. 

The only thing that will "shut people up" is winning. 

We lose this week, it all gets worse.

 

22 minutes ago, Ghostwriter said:

If Max is ok with it, everyone else should be too.

I hope this shuts people up. 

Just spouting the company line. What do you expect?

Maybe it's not the coach who is the problem?

Maybe the players need to lift their game?

Christian Petracca was very quiet, as were a number of other players.

Simon Goodwin was a pretty impressive player for the Crows, but he can't put the boots on and run out for the Demons anymore.

It will be interesting to see how the Demons players respond against the Suns....🤔

Just now, Supreme_Demon said:

Maybe it's not the coach who is the problem?

Maybe the players need to lift their game?

Christian Petracca was very quiet, as were a number of other players.

Simon Goodwin was a pretty impressive player for the Crows, but he can't put the boots on and run out for the Demons anymore.

It will be interesting to see how the Demons players respond against the Suns....🤔

The fact that we can only win if we dominate clearances and contested ball and all our best players are on fire is absolutely a coaching issue. It shows that we're winning off star factor rather than structure.

Unfortunately something has to change.

 

A. The game plan or message is not being adhered too.

B. Forward line issues have no been addressed since 2021

C. Defence is aging and nothing really has been done to fix it.

D. Game plan is not working, we are slower than most sides.

E. Too many players have come from other clubs and are merely windows dressing

F. Loads of players don't want to be there anymore 

G. Still don't have a C.e.o to make vital decisions 

H. A review that nobody will ever see or know what accountability has been demanded.

This is not a player issue but rather poor management. And Simon Goodwin is responsible for some of the issues.

Edited March 25Mar 25 by Ugottobekidding

22 hours ago, chook fowler said:

Michael Voss will be available

We could hire Ken Hinkley as Footy Manager to mentor him

Edited March 25Mar 25 by John Demonic

On 25/03/2025 at 08:59, beelzebub said:

Good luck Dees. 2 games in and already fairly and squarely looking down the barrel.

I think it's fair to assume after two games that we are not going to win a flag this year.

I thought we played really well against a very good team in the Giants but Sunday's game was a fiasco. What then will determine if Goody will be around next year? Does failure to make finals justify removing him?

Goody did a remarkable job helping this club win a flag. It was 56 years of misery and pain ended by a coach where so many other coaches failed.

A flag comes from a combination of many things. Obviously it takes a great collection of great players. And we certainly did have that. In spades. We came so close to winning another in 23. So Goody has been an exceptional coach. And while he's not perfect it has to be recognised that it's a very difficult job. Now we find that many of those players have had injuries ,have left or other issues.  Goody doesn't have a great list anymore. 

I mention all this because I don't want to see the man unceremoniously removed from the job. In today's footy age, coaches resign, get pushed out or sacked in a whirlwind of media judging. These things often have a force and momentum of their own.  I have a feeling that Goody won't be coaching at Melbourne next year. 

The question isn't really should Goody be removed, it's really a question of when and how.

Perhaps the club should find a new coach ASAP with the view to let Goody bow out gracefully and the with the respect and kudos he deserves. 

He certainly warrants leaving the club in a dignified manner . He achieved the ultimate prize that a plethora of other coaches couldn't achieve.  He should not be in the centre of s#t storm media prophecy  calling for his blood week in and out until it comes to fulfill itself as they always do.

And as much as I don't like the word, it is time for a rebuild and as such getting a new coach would help with that. We have often used the term premiership window with the 21 crop of players. For a combination of reasons, this window is well and truly closed.  Time to start making a new one. And along with it, time for a new coach.

Edited March 26Mar 26 by leave it to deever

On 24/03/2025 at 22:51, WERRIDEE said:

Goodwin and Chaplin should go.

Jones\Radford and Bassett are safe.

Lets look at the list shall we

May - Stays

van Rooyen - Stays

Salem - trade him to Richmond where they need experince.

McVee - Stays

Petracca - Stays but if he wants to go he can go.

Windsor - Stays

Viney - Stays

Lever - Stays

Spargo - goes if he does stay I don't have any problems with it.

Turner - Stays

Gawn - Stays

Tholstup - Stays

Oliver - Personally I think he goes but if he stays I'm fine with it.

Billings - Goes

Langdon - Stays

Laurie - I think he's contracted but he goes IMO trade him for nothing he was a top 20 pick.

Bowey - Goes in a trade someone will take him.

Melksham - Goes Retires

Langford - Stays

Lindsay - Stays

Jefferson - Stays

Howes - Goes delist

McAdam - Retire if you know what's good for you

Rivers - Stays

McDonald - Goes Retires

Adams - Stays

Hore - Delist

Verrall - Delist or stays don't care.

Campbell - Stays

Sharp - Stays

Fritsch - Stays but I'd be shopping him around.

Sparrow - Stays

Fullerton - Delist

Petty - Stays

Pickett - Stays but if he wants to go go

Chandler - Stays

Sestan - Delist

Mentha - Stays

Woewodin - Delist

Brown - Delist

Johnson -Stays

Henderson - Stays

Kentfield - Delist

Moniz-Wakefield - Stays

Culley - Stays for now have to see more of him.

That's 16 players out of the club not including. The 5 possibles. Changes will be made to the list as well as the coaching staff.

Full of bitter truths and reasonable requirements for the Team, with coaching changes and adept recruiting. It is difficult to believe that the types of players that we need have not been available, for one reason or the other, including scouting oversights. 

The fact the we can’t lower our eyes and hit a target inside 50 and continually bomb it in as if we have Tony Lockett and Wayne Carey down there is totally on the coach.

Why is there never any movement in our forward line or players leading at the ball?

Its been happening for far too long, and we have wasted the opportunity whilst in the premiership window with once in a lifetime players such as Gawn, Trac, Clarry , May etc..

On 24/03/2025 at 19:10, DeeZee said:

Remember we were also a chance for Houston before all that Carp went down.

Melbourne were never going to give up pick 5-6 for him and his people knew it!

 

2 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Full of bitter truths and reasonable requirements for the Team, with coaching changes and adept recruiting. It is difficult to believe that the types of players that we need have not been available, for one reason or the other, including scouting oversights. 

I didn't want Tracc to go but now I'm of the mind that if any player doesn't want to be at this great club than adios. But let's trade as hard as can. No favors for anyone who doesn't want to win another flag for this club.  Thanks for the memories but how do I say this....ummm... oh... yea....get lost.   (Unless it's Max. Not saying is is though. Just saying. ....I love the bloke).

1 hour ago, DeeZee said:

The fact the we can’t lower our eyes and hit a target inside 50 and continually bomb it in as if we have Tony Lockett and Wayne Carey down there is totally on the coach.

Why is there never any movement in our forward line or players leading at the ball?

Its been happening for far too long, and we have wasted the opportunity whilst in the premiership window with once in a lifetime players such as Gawn, Trac, Clarry , May etc..

The fact that we have not had a great ex forward as a forward line coach probably hasn't helped DZ.

I'm still astonished that Simon left this stone unturned from 2022 onwards and did not look for that sort of replacement for Stafford, even after he moved on.

Edited March 26Mar 26 by Demon Dynasty

His stint on AFL360 has shown me, he can not drive a change in game style. Will put my hand up if I’m wrong, but he is not the guy for the rebuild 

7 minutes ago, SPC said:

His stint on AFL360 has shown me, he can not drive a change in game style. Will put my hand up if I’m wrong, but he is not the guy for the rebuild 

I don’t think he knows how to develop a ‘rebuilding’ team.

He was given a well developed list after Roos did all the heavy lifting in the 3 years prior. Goodwin inherited virtually a pregerminated list, where the roots had already be established, he just had to stick them in the ground.

On 25/03/2025 at 09:35, BringBackTheDemon said:

Like Garry Lyon said on 360 last night, we are 17th for contested marks inside 50 in the past 2.5 years despite running a 3 KPF F50 with Gawn also floating down there and bombing the ball in to give plenty of contested mark opportunities. 

If that stat alone doesnt tell you all you need to know about how predictably dumb and easy to game plan against we are nothing will. 

Agreed.

We have too many average/poor kicks in our midfield. The long bombs are useless, especially when we have a bunch of prepubescent kpf's who understably struggle to take a contested mark

Max, Viney, Tracc, Clarry, Langdon, Sharp, Sparrow and Billings are all unreliable by foot

Hopefully the addition of Langford and Lindsay will improve this delivery, but it’s 2-3 years away before they hit their peak. We desperately need more elite kicks and decision makers 

IMO Max should not go i50, certainly not as a tall target. He's a terrible kick, can't hit the ocean with a beach ball. AJ or JVR should take ruck there