The Ruck Conundrum

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,282]

We all know a back up ruck is an absolute must this off season, so I'm keen to get people's thoughts on who we could target.

Some names that we can potentially look at:

- Liam Reidy from Fremantle - 204cm and 24 years old. Given they have Darcy and Jackson on long term deals his chance of playing are basically zero. Could we look to entice him over noting this?

- Tim English - if he genuienly looking at leaving could we get him in to play more forward next year or two and then be full time ruck once Gawn retires? Unlikely I would think but maybe worth thinking about.

- Hamish Free from North - 203cm and 26 years old behind Xerri. Don't think he would be great but maybe worth it as a back up?

Would love to know any others but we really need to replace Schache's spot on the list with a genuine back up ruck

[Jeremy 911]

Mitch nails this segment 👏 For anyone who thinks Fullarton WASN’T recruited as a backup ruckman you are absolutely kidding yourself. 

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,282]

9 minutes ago, Jeremy said:

Mitch nails this segment 👏 For anyone who thinks Fullarton WASN’T recruited as a backup ruckman you are absolutely kidding yourself. 

I would love to listen but I just can't listen to anything with Sam McClure...

[Fat Tony 5,041]

I don't see the big issue with going uninsured. If Max gets injured for long stretch, we are not going to win the flag anyway.

It is challenging to recruit a decent back up ruck because we have Gawn. And we managed to get through Gawn's injury with a 1-1 record, with both games against top 8 sides. (I don't think we would have beaten Freo in Perth even if we still had Grundy as our back up.)

Hopefully Verrell becomes an AFL level player as he gets stronger.

[spirit of norm smith 14,851]

We’ve had two years to replace Jackson.

Sure we had Grundy as an experiment.  It was unlikely to be the answer but Goody chickened out very quickly.  Grundy is making a few MFC decision makers very embarrassed right now.  
 

The admission that new recruit Tom Fullarton would have had zero impact in the ruck is a total admission of a failed list manager strategy.  We already had multiple tall forwards.  Why is he now seen as only a tall forward? Bizarre by coach and list manager. 
 

We had the chance to recruit Meek at end of ‘22.  We had the chance to get Liam Reddy.  We indeed could have grabbed Harry Boyd from the SANFL. Instead MFC decided “apparently” to go with Gawn as the only ruckman.  Wow.  Poor planning or poor list management.  Both. 
 

I like Verrall and think he has a future.  He can be developed but agree at 20yo that he has more physical development needed.  Another 12 months will see him get bigger and stronger imv. 
 

Max is 32. He has 3-5 years left definitely.  Ruckman develop later but can play longer.  Goldstein is still going at 36.  But Max needs support and cover as he is only human.  We know he’s super human but to go without a Plan B for the ruck in 2024 was an obvious fail.  
 

We prayer that Max returns from injury this week. 

[Fritta and Turner 4,142]

Love the spellung

[DistrACTION Jackson 8,282]

34 minutes ago, Fritta and Turner said:

Love the spellung

😅😅 should spell check these things…. Don’t know how to edit the heading unfortunately 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,486]

1 hour ago, spirit of norm smith said:

We’ve had two years to replace Jackson.

Sure we had Grundy as an experiment.  It was unlikely to be the answer but Goody chickened out very quickly.  Grundy is making a few MFC decision makers very embarrassed right now.  
 

The admission that new recruit Tom Fullarton would have had zero impact in the ruck is a total admission of a failed list manager strategy.  We already had multiple tall forwards.  Why is he now seen as only a tall forward? Bizarre by coach and list manager. 
 

We had the chance to recruit Meek at end of ‘22.  We had the chance to get Liam Reddy.  We indeed could have grabbed Harry Boyd from the SANFL. Instead MFC decided “apparently” to go with Gawn as the only ruckman.  Wow.  Poor planning or poor list management.  Both. 
 

I like Verrall and think he has a future.  He can be developed but agree at 20yo that he has more physical development needed.  Another 12 months will see him get bigger and stronger imv. 
 

Max is 32. He has 3-5 years left definitely.  Ruckman develop later but can play longer.  Goldstein is still going at 36.  But Max needs support and cover as he is only human.  We know he’s super human but to go without a Plan B for the ruck in 2024 was an obvious fail.  
 

We prayer that Max returns from injury this week. 

As a Norwood supporter in the SANFL we should have nabbed Boydie he would have been very handy for us during this period.

Then again he might not want to play 2nd fiddle either.

[Little Goffy 13,903]

I was super keen on Hayden McLean even as far back as pre-Grundy (and had then hoped we would get him back in the Grundy trade with Sydney) and while he clearly would have been ideal for our situation (goal a game, steady flow of contested marks, competes in ruck effectively) if they don't want to move, they don't want to move.

I'm obsessed with the prospect of getting both De Konings in 2025 - Tom a free agent, Sam out of contract - and that would absolutely re-open our premiership window in one big swing.

Unfortunately there aren't that many Hayden McLeans out there.

Darcy Cameron can play forward but primarily rucks, and would be a mature presence to support Gawn both game by game and with management over a season. At 29 he would hopefully be around long enough for the next generation lead ruck to come through.

Jake Riccardi is a respectable forward who chips in for the ruck, but only about as much as Van Rooyen and not as good a forward.

If we're looking at the draft, we could take the Whitlock twins (allegedly ranked a mid first and late first round) which would at least give us another 4m on our list though neither are full-time rucks.

[BigFez 1,440]

Gawn is at his very best when he plays the vast majority of his time in the ruck. We've seen with Grundy and even Preuss that having two pure rucks doesn't really work for us because as good as Max is in the ruck, he isn't a great forward.  So why would any half decent ruck come and play for us knowing that unless Gawn gets injured, they are more than likely end up playing in the VFL?  Even Grundy, who is in the conversation for the AA ruck spot this year ended up in the VFL because the two ruck setup doesn't seem to work for us.

So my question would be, is there a ruckman in the country that wasn't good enough to be playing regularly in an AFL team, and would be happy to play second fiddle to Max for the next 5 years, who could have competed with Darcy/Jackson on the weekend?

[WalkingCivilWar 39,244]

1 hour ago, DistrACTION Jackson said:

😅😅 should spell check these things…. Don’t know how to edit the heading unfortunately 

Only mods can change the heading.

@Demonland???

[chook fowler 19,243]

Conundrum - if this was Filth's or the Toiges thread it would be titled: The Ruck F'up

[dino rover 695]

I like Reidy as an option 
   https://www.afl.com.au/video/772173/mid-season-draft-prospect-liam-reidy?videoId=772173&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1651240800001

 He played with my son at East Brighton so I’ve seen him play and he is a forward first who is rucking at Frankston and now wafl because they need a ruck. He is a natural footballer not a project athlete with a quality left foot kick.  

 I’d get him as a fwd who can ruck and in the short term and recruit a replacement for Gawn when he is set to retire
 

[monoccular 17,253]

4 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

We’ve had two years to replace Jackson.

Sure we had Grundy as an experiment.  It was unlikely to be the answer but Goody chickened out very quickly.  Grundy is making a few MFC decision makers very embarrassed right now.  

Did Goody chicken out, or did he see earlier than others that it wasn't working?   I can't remember very many questioning the cheap pick up at the time.   

[Diamond_Jim 12,314]

This is the end of year wrap on the Lions VFL team in 2023

https://www.afl.com.au/news/1065624/2023-smithys-vfl-review-brisbane-lions

Notice anything strange about this Stat....

Annual Average (six match minimum)

Hitouts: Darcy Fort (23.3), Kalin Lane (16.3), Henry Smith (8.9)

[John Crow Batty 8,731]

Goodwin seems to be obsessed that the 2nd ruckman has to able to play forward as well. We had Jackson who could play the role but he was a unicorn. Tried and failed with Grundy. We recruit Schache and Fullerton who are just jack of all trade hacks. Max is a big fail tried in both roles. Even Majak Daw was recruited because he could ruck and play forward/defence but we never used him. 
The last decent 2nd ruck we had was Preuss. Even in the Jamar days we had a young Gawn, Fitzpatrick, Pederson  and Spencer who could be reliably called up to ruck compete out a game. 
Now we mostly rely on VDR which I believe almost certainly costs us several goals a game from his absence from the forward line every game. 

[DubDee 24,106]

4 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

We’ve had two years to replace Jackson.

Sure we had Grundy as an experiment.  It was unlikely to be the answer but Goody chickened out very quickly.  Grundy is making a few MFC decision makers very embarrassed right now.  
 

The admission that new recruit Tom Fullarton would have had zero impact in the ruck is a total admission of a failed list manager strategy.  We already had multiple tall forwards.  Why is he now seen as only a tall forward? Bizarre by coach and list manager. 
 

We had the chance to recruit Meek at end of ‘22.  We had the chance to get Liam Reddy.  We indeed could have grabbed Harry Boyd from the SANFL. Instead MFC decided “apparently” to go with Gawn as the only ruckman.  Wow.  Poor planning or poor list management.  Both. 

Talk about re-writing history.  Grundy was recruited to fix the issue.  After more than half a season it clearly wasn't working. Everyone agreed he should be dropped to VFL.  Once that happened there was no way we could keep him. So how are the MFC embarrassed, you would prefer we kept Grundy playing in VFL 90% of the time? We tried something and it didn't work - move on

"We already had multiple tall forwards" Lack of tall forwards has been our major issues for years.  So we basically took a punt on Fullarton to solve our fwd line problems and 2nd ruck issues but he hasn't come on yet

Then blokes like Meek at 22yo.  Would you like to go to young team and play lots of game time or a mature team and play 1-2 games a year?  tough call for Meek

Obviously Grundy and Fullarton didn't work out (yet) but at least we are trying something.  Not many good talls around and very hard to recruit a young back up that knows he is behind a champion

[spirit of norm smith 14,851]

1 hour ago, monoccular said:

Did Goody chicken out, or did he see earlier than others that it wasn't working?   I can't remember very many questioning the cheap pick up at the time.   

I remember there were questions when Grundy was recruited.  Everyone was puzzled but we kept the faith and hoped Goodys decision might be strangely a good one. It wasn’t?  He ultimately called it and bears the accountability for the failed experiment, but the question is, was it the right or smart move in the first place? 

[Ted Lasso 18,569]

Nick Bryan is the one i'd go for from the dons, he's a good contested mark, plays a similar game style to Max although not to the same standard, he's still young and can learn off Max before taking over, can provide a good target forward. 

I've got no doubt the dons plan for him to take over post goldy, but we had interest last year, and i'd be shocked if we didn't ask the question again.

[Sydee 4,136]

1 hour ago, Ted Lasso said:

Nick Bryan is the one i'd go for from the dons, he's a good contested mark, plays a similar game style to Max although not to the same standard, he's still young and can learn off Max before taking over, can provide a good target forward. 

I've got no doubt the dons plan for him to take over post goldy, but we had interest last year, and i'd be shocked if we didn't ask the question again.

Fair call - btw for those of us screaming for Will Verrall or Tom Fullarton to ruck in the AFL I believe Bryan had 53 HOs vs a combined 20 in that game (Verrall 15 , Fullerton 5) 

Made them both look way off the pace as a ruckman atm 

[buck_nekkid 5,818]

We can’t rewrite history. Jacko was the ace in the hole for us (until he needed to go home to Mummy to get some biddy).

Grundy was a good get, but isnt a second ruck.  Great rucks are rare, take ages to develop and are not often available for trade.  Who would want to come to the Demons with Max being the main man?  Maybe the dees will be attractive as max gets older (more opportunities ), but getting a true 2nd ruck that is ready to go is not easy.

The recent recruiting of ‘forwards that can pinch hit” in the ruck are not ruckman, so lets not murder them because they dont fit the role.  I can see in a couple of years bth Turner and Petty playing back, Luker, JvR and maybe Jeffo forward, and White or Verrell in the ruck.  But that is 1 or 2 years away at least.

[Roger Mellie 3,845]

14 hours ago, Ted Lasso said:

Nick Bryan is the one i'd go for from the dons, he's a good contested mark, plays a similar game style to Max although not to the same standard, he's still young and can learn off Max before taking over, can provide a good target forward. 

I've got no doubt the dons plan for him to take over post goldy, but we had interest last year, and i'd be shocked if we didn't ask the question again.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if we tried to get him before he re-signed with the bummers. We have to remember:

a) slim pickings on offer for rucks

b) Melb is not a desirable location for rucks with the offer being to hang around in the VFL as Max's back-up.

I have no doubt we're trying but we're trawling a small pool.

[DiscoStu17 658]

15 hours ago, Sydee said:

Fair call - btw for those of us screaming for Will Verrall or Tom Fullarton to ruck in the AFL I believe Bryan had 53 HOs vs a combined 20 in that game (Verrall 15 , Fullerton 5) 

Made them both look way off the pace as a ruckman atm 

I’ve said it before, but Bryan won almost all of these hitouts against Fullarton and Brown. Verrall won 8/13 against him in the first half. He is ok, but not better than we already have. 

[Sydee 4,136]

3 hours ago, DiscoStu17 said:

I’ve said it before, but Bryan won almost all of these hitouts against Fullarton and Brown. Verrall won 8/13 against him in the first half. He is ok, but not better than we already have. 

Yes in the VFL he is ok - not very good , not great , not yet anyway

Does this translate to be ok in the AFL - I suspect not 

[DiscoStu17 658]

6 minutes ago, Sydee said:

Yes in the VFL he is ok - not very good , not great , not yet anyway

Does this translate to be ok in the AFL - I suspect not 

I think he might surprise us. The VFL team is a dog’s breakfast. Everyone is playing their own game with little sharing. That has come from players being dropped without actually playing. On the weekend he was able to hit Sestan in space over the shoulder under pressure. Last week it was from the bottom of the pack to Fullarton for a shot on goal. He is making good decisions and may offer more than first thought.