PREGAME: Rd 18 vs Essendon

[DubDee 26,117]

58 minutes ago, 58er said:

Kynan Brown Pup says Hi  only 2 weeks in a row again. 

Will Goody ever learn?

Also the point about Bedford and Jordon is that the same selection tricks and issues are being played out with Laurie Woe and now Kynan.

If I was Dog Brown I would be furious with the treatment of Kynan.

BTW the record of Schache and Kynan as subs is 1 close win vs Roos 4 pts and  2 losses by 2 points vs Blues in SF and Lions by 5 pts in Round 16. 

Surely you deserve to lose games and players when you burn them at  that rate.

Shameful? good lord.  We are not running a charity mate. If you are the 23rd best available player - you are the sub. The kids would be happy to have a chance especially in their first year.

And good teams lose their 22-28th rated players - it happens.  Was it shameful that the Tigers lost Higgins/Butler etc during their premiership years?  No, just fringe players leaving for more game time or longer contracts

[roy11 3,893]

Hopefully SG considers this when deciding who should be primary ruck

 

 

 

[Fromgotowoewodin 1,606]

12 minutes ago, middleagedemon said:

For the record, I think King is clearly knowledgeable. Much more so than any poster on here given his experience as an AFL player and assistant coach at the level. 

The only problem I have is that AFL media is so ove-saturated and he is on so many programs that he is clearly going to be wrong often given the amount of opinions he needs to give on a weekly basis. 

But his stuff with Daniel Hoyne is great. And first crack generally has some interesting insights. Regardless of whether or not one 'likes' the personality. 

Kingy, is that you? 

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

6 minutes ago, roy11 said:

Hopefully SG considers this when deciding who should be primary ruck

 

 

 

Ripping stat.

 

[binman 43,755]

44 minutes ago, roy11 said:

Hopefully SG considers this when deciding who should be primary ruck

 

 

 

Impressive number for roey.

Good evidence to support my opinion he is the best 21 and under key forward in the game.

And arguably the best young key forward full stop.

On that front, preseason i compared his numbers with Amiss, Logan McDonald and Ugle-Hagen. He had all covered at the same point in their career.

And of that group, jvr is the only one of that group who has subsequently improved.

Edited July 12 by binman

[Adam The God 30,407]

1 hour ago, Chook said:

Petty has had a lot of trouble getting into the game as a forward. Having him be a defensive ruck following Draper around the ground and helping out defensively could work very well in theory.

1. Gets him into the game
2. Utilises his defensive nous and knowledge of the backline structure
3. Potentially providing a good marking target down the ground
4. Keeps the forward line open for players who know what they're doing (Roo, Melk, Fritta, Kosi) to go to work

Better than Fullerton, who wouldn't really be able to do any of that

Was exactly my thinking. Great post mate.

12 minutes ago, middleagedemon said:

For the record, I think King is clearly knowledgeable. Much more so than any poster on here given his experience as an AFL player and assistant coach at the level. 

King hasn't played at the elite level for 20 years and hasn't coached for close to 15 years. He's knowledgeable based on his access to Champion Data stats, but his analysis is very iffy.

[dice 712]

6 minutes ago, binman said:

On that front, preseason i compared his numbers with Amiss, Logan McDonald and Ugle-Hagen. He had all covered at the same point in their career.

And of that group, jvr is the only one of that group who has subsequently improved.

Didn't Amiss kick 4 goals against us? 3rd year player. Pretty sure he'll keep improving.

P.S. Petty had 1 kick that day against Freo

[middleagedemon 325]

2 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

Was exactly my thinking. Great post mate.

King hasn't played at the elite level for 20 years and hasn't coached for close to 15 years. He's knowledgeable based on his access to Champion Data stats, but his analysis is very iffy.

On what basis is it iffy? 

Please tell. 

He is an ex AFL player and assistant coach and he is knowledgeable only because of his access to champion data? 

Please stop with the comedy. 

[Fat Tony 5,262]

I would have selected Petty and agree with the idea of rucking Petty, JVR and Turner. I think Petty will primarily take the centre bounces and then Turner will mostly play as a follower ruckman.

From VFL watching, Fullarton looks to me to be capable player around the ground, but he is not a dominate centre bounce ruckman. I think Petty, JVR and Turner are better or just as good in the centre bounces. (We are still at a disadvantage at centre clearance though.)

In terms of our defensive structure, we can't replace what Max gives us. He stifles the opposition ball movement just by his positioning and our plan is to force the opposition to kick down the line to a contest with Max on a slow play.

In around the ground stoppages, we will need to play with at least equal numbers this week, which could expose our defence. (Salem will need to push up to the stoppage, as I don't think we can play a man down with an inferior ruckman.)

Going forward, we lose Max's marking threat as a deep forward, but we gain a bit more pace and unpredictability.

I don't think we want it to rain because our midfielders are better in the dry. And I think we will want to play a more expansive game style (a bit like last week against the Eagles and not down the line like against the Lions and Roos.)

[middleagedemon 325]

13 minutes ago, binman said:

Impressive number for roey.

Good evidence to support my opinion he is the best 21 and under forward in the game.

And arguably the best young forward full stop.

On that front, preseason i compared his numbers with Amiss, Logan McDonald and Ugle-Hagen. He had all covered at the same point in their career.

And of that group, jvr is the only one of that group who has subsequently improved.

Something we can agree on, although I'd reserve judgement until  the end of the year given JVR is in a purple patch and some of those other forwards are down and team form is similarly not helping. 

JVR is tracking beautifully. 

[Mel Bourne 4,534]

Wondering if the selectors googled Tom Fullarton then quickly realised they’d made a huge mistake….

[Pennant St Dee 13,304]

1 hour ago, The Swimming Dee said:

The Coach bashing is so tiresome.

You are forgetting when he gets it correct same posters come on and acknowledge they got it wrong.

Oh Wait 🤔

 

[leave it to deever 17,517]

I think Petty in makes sense.

Its just a shame Jvr will be rucking again.

I get not playing Fullerton and co but the club has been caught out not having a real viable alternative for Max.

I certainly wonder why some of these players are still on our list.

Cone on Petts prove us all wrong and smash the bombers.

 

[Adam The God 30,407]

13 minutes ago, middleagedemon said:

On what basis is it iffy? 

His track record.

Or ridiculous claims like this when recently out of the game - https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/former-richmond-assistant-coach-david-king-declares-the-tigers-a-certainty-for-afl-top-eight-in-2011/news-story/eda5d63e30819aa35bf90014d0650476

He's a click chaser. That's his job.

[BigBadBustling 394]

3 hours ago, Roger Mellie said:

I feel we have the quinella and possibly the trifecta of umpiring duds with Williamson leading the charge by some margin.

Where do the stats come from? Cheers

Yes, doesn't look good on paper.

I've been doing it manually round by round off the AFL match centre numbers, and just realised I hadn't updated it after the WCE game. See updated stats below.

 

[binman 43,755]

28 minutes ago, dice said:

Didn't Amiss kick 4 goals against us? 3rd year player. Pretty sure he'll keep improving.

P.S. Petty had 1 kick that day against Freo

And jvr kicked 4 last week. So what? 

Both are good young forwards, hence the comparison

And you'd hope a third year player would improve. 

Ditto for jvr - who is also a third year player.

Not sure what relevance petty's  performance against freo has vis a vis a discussion about the best young forwards.

Edited July 12 by binman

[Dee Zephyr 19,268]

25 minutes ago, dice said:

P.S. Petty had 1 kick that day against Freo

Yeah and the rest of the team had 2 kicks that day.
The Petty bashing is nauseating, like the team his confidence has grown the last few weeks. Loved how he attacked packs against the Lions two weeks ago. 

[SthSea22 637]

The only positive i can see is this is a game Petty takes over

Runs Draper around the ground whilst kicking a few

 

Lets see

[beelzebub 23,383]

20 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

.........

From VFL watching, Fullarton looks to me to be capable player around the ground, but he is not a dominate centre bounce ruckman. I think Petty, JVR and Turner are better or just as good in the centre bounces. (We are still at a disadvantage at centre clearance though.)

.........

Imho....  thats exactly what's called for.... a handy follower around the ground.

Not winning the centre bounce isn't EOW stuff... currently we still don't win a lot of centre clearances ( demonstrably )....

Playing a more dedicated role player ( aka a ruck ) would then not necisitate other players removing themselves from roles they are better at.

Still find the whole thing odd.

[Left Foot Snap 2,453]

28 minutes ago, middleagedemon said:

On what basis is it iffy? 

Please tell. 

He is an ex AFL player and assistant coach and he is knowledgeable only because of his access to champion data? 

Please stop with the comedy. 

You certainly seem to have come back with an agenda to have a crack at certain posters.

Where you Dr Who perhaps?

[Deemania since 56 6,716]

15 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Fascinating Selections

Personally i think The Coaches have worked out a set plan, that will hopefully unsettle Essendrug 

This will be a “Team Game”

Stakes are high for a win here….

Mesmerising, at this point ... already unsettling to what we might have fielded with Max fit. Zonal responsibilities will surely unsettle Essendrug wherein their ruck (perhaps 'two-some') will hopefully struggle to keep up with fitter younger blokes with area responsibilities, including TMac applying defensive wisdoms and his excellent reading of the play. Going to be interesting.

[Fat Tony 5,262]

3 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Imho....  thats exactly what's called for.... a handy follower around the ground.

Not winning the centre bounce isn't EOW stuff... currently we still don't win a lot of centre clearances ( demonstrably )....

Playing a more dedicated role player ( aka a ruck ) would then not necisitate other players removing themselves from roles they are better at.

Still find the whole thing odd.

I think Turner is a more capable player around the ground than Fullarton and Petty/JVR will compete harder in the centre bounces than Fullarton.

It is not that odd. Goodwin and the coaches would have considered the pros and cons. Fullarton has not shown himself to be an AFL standard player and has never played an AFL game as a first ruckman.

 

[MrFreeze 1,995]

Our boys may run Draper off his legs. Don't think he has great work rate or fitness and may fade late into this game, especially if we are rotating several players through the ruck. 

[dice 712]

31 minutes ago, binman said:

And jvr kicked 5 last week. So what? 

Both are good young forwards, hence the comparison

And you'd hope a third year player would improve. 

Ditto for jvr - who is also a third year player.

Not sure what relevance petty's  performance against freo has vis a vis a discussion about the best young forwards.

In your previous comment, you inferred Amiss hadn't improved.

And I brought up Petty as a side note to the relevance of this thread. My apologies

[Deemania since 56 6,716]

1 minute ago, MrFreeze said:

Our boys may run Draper off his legs. Don't think he has great work rate or fitness and may fade late into this game, especially if we are rotating several players through the ruck. 

Agreed, depends on the intensity our slightly 'lesser' rucks deploy across the ground and the related physicality that they may apply in Draper's direction. It must be remembered, Draper can be a reliable 'grab' across the ground, racking up possessions, so a little bit of 'mongrel' from our enthusiastic youth may well assist in his durational demise.