NON-MFC: Round 06

[Nascent 9,320]

1 hour ago, rjay said:

What did we ever do to him?

I could be wrong but I think it's more related to him having no respect for us after 8+years of being shizen. Similar to Stevie J pretending to falling asleep while singing their song after beating us. No idea if that attitude has changed over recent years.

[binman 44,512]

50 minutes ago, Brownie said:

My god, can they just put a webcam in a pub somewhere and let some drunks argue. Same quality of analysis.

Great to see an apology to Michael Christian for criticising the MRO. Why do they feel the need to apologise for having a crack at them.

Loved Cornes logic. He's taken his eyes off the ball to look at his opponent, so he has to go and then in the same breath says, the rules have changed, so players need to take care not to injure their opponent.

How do you do that if you can't take your eyes off the ball?

Sounds like they'll need to give him a week because they should have suspended Maynard and shouldn't have suspended Wright (or at least not for 4 weeks)

AFL ties itself in more knots than a knitting circle.

Media opinion will drive the outcome as usual.

Maybe players should be made to shout "look out" before entering a contest 😜

What i find weird is the lack of conversation about what I thought would be the obvious point about an incident like greenes hit - the need for players to learn a new technique in such circumstances.

Because 90% of the footy media is ex footballers they see Greene's instinct to brace to protect himself as a normal football action. Because it always has been.

The clear implication is it is ok to protect yourself at the expense of the player about to be smashed in the head.

But until the last few years so was going head first into a contest. Now players are getting better at turning the body as they are about to run into each other to avoid head contact. In five years that action will be instinctive.

Players need to learn a new action in situations like Greene's hit. Do what they would do at training - put their hands out to minimise the risk of them getting hurt whilst still offering some protection for the opponent who can't protect themselves.

If they did, in five years time that would be the instinctive reaction - not risking knocking out a player cold because your safety is more important than theirs.

For gods sake, we have had four young men (McCartin, Adams, Gus and murphy)in the prime of their sporting life have to retire and fear CTE for the rest of their lived because of players prioritizing their own safety.

It's beyond time to ban the bump. It serves zero purpose. 

Edited April 21, 2024 by binman

[rjay 25,301]

So what Greene should have done is go for the mark...

In effect he would have nearly killed his opponent if he had of gone for the mark.

I think it's becoming incumbent on players not to run back into a marking contest front on, it's sheer stupidity.

This is where it's different to the Wright incident, in that case the player was coming back to the ball.

[daisycutter 29,891]

16 minutes ago, rjay said:

So what Greene should have done is go for the mark...

In effect he would have nearly killed his opponent if he had of gone for the mark.

I think it's becoming incumbent on players not to run back into a marking contest front on, it's sheer stupidity.

This is where it's different to the Wright incident, in that case the player was coming back to the ball.

i think greene's defence would be to argue accidental vs careless

can see this going mro -> tribunal -> appeals board

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, Nascent said:

I could be wrong but I think it's more related to him having no respect for us after 8+years of being shizen. Similar to Stevie J pretending to falling asleep while singing their song after beating us. No idea if that attitude has changed over recent years.

That was James Kelly pretending to fall asleep during the song, and iirc he was duly sch!tt-canned for doing so by the media and neutral supporters, in general.

I can’t imagine a player despising a club to the point of not considering a move to that club based only on that club’s dark past. Especially when that club has been successful of late including having won a premiership recently. If Yeo despises the Dees, there must be some other reason. Maybe a personal reason. 🤷‍♀️ 

[spirit of norm smith 16,615]

Warning. I’m don’t hate all the other clubs. “Unease” with Giants and Suns as AFL Sponsored and gifted clubs.  

Hatred index rising on: 

Essendon (hate to really hate) 

Carlton (from absurdly high to volcano high) 

Collingwood (from absurdly high to volcano high) 

Geelong (from extremely high to absurdly high) 

 

 

[Redleg 41,933]

1 hour ago, rjay said:

So what Greene should have done is go for the mark...

In effect he would have nearly killed his opponent if he had of gone for the mark.

 

That's not true.

If he simply put his arms out to take the mark, no issue.

He braced and hit other player's face with his braced arm and shoulder. That is what they are trying to stop. The aerial or on ground shirt front to the head.

Might be lucky and get a week. Giants would be mad not to take that.

[Demonland 73,465]

 

[BW511 2,724]

1 hour ago, BoBo said:

Oh boy, just watched the Harley Reid highlights from last night… not sure I can recall in my lifetime a 19 y.o., 6 game midfielder, in a very average side, that is taking marks over packs like a veteran forward 🥶🥶🥶🥶

 

 

I think every football supporter has been curious about how good he can be, given the media frenzy.

Some of that pack marking for a 19 year old mid was simply superb.

i find myself watching Eagles games just to see what he will do - that’s gotta be worth so much to the club

Edited April 21, 2024 by BW511

[Guest]

Grundy’s 200th today.

GO SUNS!!!

[Nascent 9,320]

38 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

That was James Kelly pretending to fall asleep during the song, and iirc he was duly sch!tt-canned for doing so by the media and neutral supporters, in general.

I can’t imagine a player despising a club to the point of not considering a move to that club based only on that club’s dark past. Especially when that club has been successful of late including having won a premiership recently. If Yeo despises the Dees, there must be some other reason. Maybe a personal reason. 🤷‍♀️ 

Indeed it was Kelly, I stand corrected. 

I'll reiterate that I don't know for certain why Yeo despises melbourne or if still does, or even if he did. Certainly there's been long standing rumours about it though, not that in itself means much.

But I think you maybe giving too much credit to some players logical reasoning. Without trying to sound offensive, some footy players can be fairly simple creatures.

[leave it to deever 17,591]

3 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Grundy’s 200th today.

GO SUNS!!!

I used to like the Swan's. 

[fr_ap 2,541]

1 hour ago, leave it to deever said:

I'm not feeling too comfortable after last week's debacle against the lions. And it was a debacle. Although only 20 points  I feel that we were comprehensively beaten. With Clarry clearly injured our midfield seems very suspect all of a sudden. Our fwd line was non existent. It was frustrating that they barely laid any tackles. 

I'm not sure what happened but how we handle the cats after the tigers will be fairly telling. I hope it was just the f word that you don't want to hear.

I do think that teams the comp is very competitive and being slightly off can result in a teams loss against a lot of sides. Eg Freo yesterday.

I feel that we actually don't have much depth anymore. We have a great deal of young potential but I'm not sure if that's enough at present. I do hope I'm wrong on this.

The tigers game too isn't a sure thing. It's a big day with a big crowd so anything can happen. 

Yep this is (mostly) it.

The 6-8 assessment isn't really a reflection of the W-L records at the moment...we are 6 games in and if the fixture is compromised for a whole year, it's beyond compromised and barely comparable across teams after 6 rounds. Record to date is a factor (probability-wise) in terms of likelihood for top 2/4, but a minor one having only played 25% of the season. 

The comment is more rooted in my (subjective) assessment of the lists, strengths/weaknesses, gamestyle and the very very subjective vibe I get from watching. Of course that's informed by who they've all played - so it's all a subjective exercise. But almost everything is - doesn't mean you can't discuss it or project forward. IMO at this stage you need to watch for what each team looks like at its best, knowing that there will be aberrations along the way. 

Carlton aren't infallible but they have terrific depth. It's the best list in the comp by some margin. Somewhere between 4-8 of their best 22 out and they've not skipped a beat. The midfield bats 6-8 deep on A-C+ quality (ours is probably 5 deep at best). Players like Cowan would have gotten many more games on a list like ours. More generally, they just have the look of a side that has figured out how to win. They are finding results in a number of ways, know themselves and just look engaged and hungry in every spot. Call it culture - they're building something special there. It reminds me of us in many ways. 

Yeah, they lost to Adelaide....who had a 1 in 100 day in front of goal and barely missed. Owies missed a sitter with 1 min to go that would have sealed it. They were the better team. It happens. Are they perfect? No - they probably lack an elite 2nd KPD and rely on Weitering a lot - but then so do we with May. TDK is their Jackson style point of difference. It's their flag to lose and I think we are watching their 2021. 

Geelong I'm actually less sold on - I think they are still propped up by their ageing stars to a degree and question their durability - but they have an extremely soft draw so are top 4 locks - and their younger cohort is underrated. Bruhn is a star not getting the attention he deserves, and between SDK/Close/Stengel/the Henry's etc. they've actually managed the exit of their superstars extremely well. People still don't realise what a luxury Blicavs is. It's a good list with a good coach, good culture and a soft draw. They'll go close. 

You'd be hard pressed to watch GWS and convince yourself there is a better offensive team in the comp. Their general skill level and footy IQ across most positions is off the charts. And their point of difference to the other top teams is pace, in most spots. They rely on Hogan to score and his form is a big factor for their form - but he looks so healthy and happy so no reason to suspect it might not continue. As much as I lauded Carlton above, Taylor and Coniglio probably make GWS a 3 goal better side considering it was Curnow/McKay who did it. But that speaks to their depth - which isn't quite at Carlton levels. 

They're the top 3 imo.

Sydney have an incredible young midfield, but will need McDonald, amartey and Maclean to fire and I don't think that's a flag quality fwd line.

Port also have an incredible young midfield, but lack the real quality depth around the flanks IMO and have a questionable culture when the going gets tough. 

Brisbane, who knows given their start. We know they're good enough but not convinced they have the mentality. 

Pies - don't have the best list, haven't for a while, but have an amazing amazing coach, many good players and the best young player in the league. Obvious thing to say that if they get on a roll they can do it. 

We're towards the bottom half of that mix imo.

We have arguably the strongest culture which gets us far, but probably out of that group the weakest depth where it matters most - in midfield. The loss of Gus, Jordon, Harmes in one fell swoop and to a lesser extent Dunstan is starting to show in there with Clarry struggling. And other than Fritsch or Koz (who we insert into the mid because of lack of depth), we dont really have a forward line that can cover a soundly beaten midfield. We do have the defence- but a lot of that is an ageing May. When he has bad days we look very vulnerable, particularly against fast skilful sides.

We are objectively weaker than 2021 in just about every spot that's changed - we haven't adequately replaced Hibberd, Jackson or Harmes in my opinion. McVee a great find, but not quite Hibberd level defensively (yet). Bowey is a bit better than 2021, but not a heap. Sparrow too. Add the loss of Gus (who Hunter or Billings are not a patch on) and it just adds up. Windsor has been a find, but he's a kid. Howes is imo not of the quality required for a top 4 side, JVR too.

The loss of Jackson, who cost us so much in such a unique and valuable position in the modern game, is massive. Grundy was a mistake, and now JVR is having to make a decent, but not difference making fist of it. 

We're good, sometimes great, but our games against Sydney, Port and Brisbane just showed signs that we don't quite have enough bases covered this year. 

Go nuts on me - don't really care, just my opinion and enjoy the footy talk if we can keep it to that. 

[Nascent 9,320]

27 minutes ago, Redleg said:

That's not true.

If he simply put his arms out to take the mark, no issue.

He braced and hit other player's face with his braced arm and shoulder. That is what they are trying to stop. The aerial or on ground shirt front to the head.

Might be lucky and get a week. Giants would be mad not to take that.

It wouldn't surprise me if we see rules come in at the end of the year that penalises people for running back with the flight towards marking contests.

This used to be the most celebrated act of bravery to put yourself in harms way to contest the footy, I think this attitude has to change.

A player leading up to the ball has good field of visison and is coming up towards the ball, and if a player is coming hard in the opposite direction they instinctually brace for impact, as evolution has hard wired into us. 

Compare that to a player that is often sprinting into oncoming traffic with eyes only on the footy. Not only are they putting themeself in danger, they are showing no care for whoever they might run into.

They are essentially driving a vehicle at high speed while blindfolded. Is this not reckless?

Of course there are nuances with every contest and varying speeds and intent on genuine marking vs deliberate attempt to bump. 

[Demon Jack 7,140]

Clohesy looks a serious prospect for GC.

 

 

[Little Goffy 14,750]

3 hours ago, Demonland said:

 

Player A - backing into a contest with eyes on the ball and not able to see player B.

Player B - With full view of the incoming ball and player, missed the ball and drives shoulder into back of head of player A to 'protect himself'.

There's spin, and then there's urinating into a fan.

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,935]

2 hours ago, Brownie said:

My god, can they just put a webcam in a pub somewhere and let some drunks argue. Same quality of analysis.

Great to see an apology to Michael Christian for criticising the MRO. Why do they feel the need to apologise for having a crack at them.

Loved Cornes logic. He's taken his eyes off the ball to look at his opponent, so he has to go and then in the same breath says, the rules have changed, so players need to take care not to injure their opponent.

How do you do that if you can't take your eyes off the ball?

Sounds like they'll need to give him a week because they should have suspended Maynard and shouldn't have suspended Wright (or at least not for 4 weeks)

AFL ties itself in more knots than a knitting circle.

Media opinion will drive the outcome as usual.

Maybe players should be made to shout "look out" before entering a contest 😜

Very, very tuff on the drunks @Brownie. The first place I go for good analysis is a pub. The second place is Demonland. The absolute last place I go is the mainstream media.

[rjay 25,301]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

That's not true.

If he simply put his arms out to take the mark, no issue.

He braced and hit other player's face with his braced arm and shoulder. That is what they are trying to stop. The aerial or on ground shirt front to the head.

Might be lucky and get a week. Giants would be mad not to take that.

Absolutely it's true...In a marking contest like that he's in his rights to raise his knee.

That wouldn't be good.

Edited April 21, 2024 by rjay

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,764]

2 hours ago, Nascent said:

I could be wrong but I think it's more related to him having no respect for us after 8+years of being shizen. Similar to Stevie J pretending to falling asleep while singing their song after beating us. No idea if that attitude has changed over recent years.

James Maddison tweeted for years about how much he hated Spurs. Nek minnit.....

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,935]

2 hours ago, binman said:

I don't think I'm being optimistic FD. I think I'm being realistic and objective. 

Its a cliche that it's a long season because its true.

The media love to pretend that every game is of critical importance and every result is some sort of bellweather for team's chances of winning a flag (or making top 4, or finals, or wooden spoon etc etc).

They're not.

If they were, then last week the only conclusion that could be reached is that the blues have no chance of winning a flag given they were beaten by a winless, and decidedly average, crows outfit. Or does only this weeks result count?

And what of the giants? Everybody's darlings and flag pick. They were cruising, 20 points up halfway through the third and caved, conceding a 7 goal turn around in a quarter and a half. No longer a contender?

The swans were similarly lauded after starting the season with terrific wins over the dees, pies and bombers. Such stunning ball movement. Such brilliant kicks. Gulden is a kicking God. Heeney a midfield genius. Then they get beaten by the tigers. Not a contender any more?

They also love to pretend each game is played in isolation, a game in a bubble unmoored from other considerations (schedule, byes, high performance programs, how teams match up with specific opponents, injuries, trialling new roles or strategies, conditions etc etc).

They're not.

Each individual game, particularly in the first half of the season, is a piece of a larger puzzle. A step towards the final prize.

Its about winning the battle, not the wars.

100 percent this.

Case study 1: Lloyd. Every week he has a new premiership winning tip, decision on who's not good enough and who's the best player in the comp. The last thought that passed through his brain is today's truth.

Case study 2: Cornes . . . because why let reality ruin a perfectly outrageous headline?

Everyone else: Walking around like they know what they're doing - but in reality - really good actors in a show called "Guessing Our Way Through Adulting."

[BoBo 2,953]

20 minutes ago, BW511 said:

I think every football supporter has been curious about how good he can be, given the media frenzy.

Some of that pack marking for a 19 year old mid was simply superb.

i find myself watching Eagles games just to see what he will do - that’s gotta be worth so much to the club

Absolutely, I’ll be watching more eagles games now because of him. 
 

If he can consistently mark like that in F50 throughout his career then he’s basically a 7th forward. NIGHTMARE to play against. 

[leave it to deever 17,591]

1 hour ago, Nascent said:

It wouldn't surprise me if we see rules come in at the end of the year that penalises people for running back with the flight towards marking contests.

This used to be the most celebrated act of bravery to put yourself in harms way to contest the footy, I think this attitude has to change.

A player leading up to the ball has good field of visison and is coming up towards the ball, and if a player is coming hard in the opposite direction they instinctually brace for impact, as evolution has hard wired into us. 

Compare that to a player that is often sprinting into oncoming traffic with eyes only on the footy. Not only are they putting themeself in danger, they are showing no care for whoever they might run into.

They are essentially driving a vehicle at high speed while blindfolded. Is this not reckless?

Of course there are nuances with every contest and varying speeds and intent on genuine marking vs deliberate attempt to bump. 

Good post.

Toby G is an incredible footballer. He has cat like reflexes to put his body into defensive ( yet dangerous to opposition players) positions.

Remember how he used to mark and keep players at bay with his kicks in the air.

If he wanted to, he could always run in an attempt to mark knowing that he can protect himself at the last instance by tucking in the old elbow and jumping to gain the protection of the higher ground.

He could also run at the flight of the ball and deliberately turn at the last second like he did to deliberately take a player out if he so desired.

Just like Maynard...how do you know ones intentions?

Sometimes its impossible to tell.

I think like they did in Kozzies last suspended act is just simply look at the results.

That was head high impact . The grading is the key. For me it's  2 weeks. 

I also think if a player has form it should be looked at at well.

If we are going to complain about poor Gus having his career ended, then we need to be serious about acts like this. So too the AFL.

[DubDee 26,296]

25 minutes ago, BoBo said:

Absolutely, I’ll be watching more eagles games now because of him. 
 

If he can consistently mark like that in F50 throughout his career then he’s basically a 7th forward. NIGHTMARE to play against. 

and North said no thanks to him. 

wtf

[DubDee 26,296]

Suns midfield beating the Swans but just can’t create enough chances

Suns a chance for an upset

[whatwhat say what 23,419]

2 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Suns midfield beating the Swans but just can’t create enough chances

Suns a chance for an upset

sydney seem able to maintain distance of a 2-4 goals