On 12/04/2024 at 20:41, Bring-Back-Powell said:

My first excuse for Thursday night is we’re tired and badly need a bye after 6 games.

And yet last year we played 13 games without a bye and beat a couple of last year’s top 4 sides in the 12th and 13th game after 5 interstate trips.

Last year in our corresponding 6th game we gritted out a win after coming home from a Perth-Adelaide double and had a total of 3 interstate trips as per this year.

Why are we in so desperate need for a bye this at this time of the year, where as last year we went on a dominant patch between rounds 6 and 9 (albeit against lower teams).

Or are we just too quick to use it as an excuse for our poor loss the other night? Max played like he didn’t need the bye.

Precisely. How  can it be that 6 rounds in we are physically exhausted? We did have blooded a number of young guys so can understand forget may need a rest but no idea why the senior player (other than Max) appeared out of petrol tickets from the first quarter. Was it an outlier and if so, still have to wonder why.   What happens at the pointy end of the season or even worse, finals. That is was is most concerning. What makes the most sense is that the bulk of the team were suffering some kind of illness but that could also be a convenient narrative to cover over a very weak and flat performance. 

  On 12/04/2024 at 21:52, Dodos Demons said:

Precisely. How  can it be that 6 rounds in we are physically exhausted? We did have blooded a number of young guys so can understand forget may need a rest but no idea why the senior player (other than Max) appeared out of petrol tickets from the first quarter. Was it an outlier and if so, still have to wonder why.   What happens at the pointy end of the season or even worse, finals. That is was is most concerning. What makes the most sense is that the bulk of the team were suffering some kind of illness but that could also be a convenient narrative to cover over a very weak and flat performance. 

Everyone caught Viney's virus from the week before.😁

  On 12/04/2024 at 21:52, Dodos Demons said:

Precisely. How  can it be that 6 rounds in we are physically exhausted? We did have blooded a number of young guys so can understand forget may need a rest but no idea why the senior player (other than Max) appeared out of petrol tickets from the first quarter. Was it an outlier and if so, still have to wonder why.   What happens at the pointy end of the season or even worse, finals. That is was is most concerning. What makes the most sense is that the bulk of the team were suffering some kind of illness but that could also be a convenient narrative to cover over a very weak and flat performance. 

Yep, if you think it about, it’s silly to need a rest after 5 games. Forever and a day we’ve had our first rest in mid June. Why all of a sudden do we need one in mid April? Has the Carlton praccy match and the opening round compounded our fatigue?

I think we were just mentally flat the other night. Most of the group would’ve seen the Adelaide double as a major milestone achievement and sense of accomplishment. Teams can’t be up every week and I’m expecting GWS, Geelong and Carlton to each put in a stinker over the next month when nobody will expect it.

I’m also giving all the credit to Brisbane. They obviously came in with a plan, executed it perfectly (first time I’ve genuinely noticed Fagan having a big tactical win) provided elite pressure and were able to cruise in the last quarter due to having an 8 goal lead.

There were also other factors which have been discussed which ended up causing the perfect storm.

Edited April 13, 20241 yr by Bring-Back-Powell

  On 12/04/2024 at 21:52, Dodos Demons said:

Precisely. How  can it be that 6 rounds in we are physically exhausted? 

Apply Occam's razor.

Players looked very flat , got smashed out of clearances, tall forwards were poor & not to be seen every time our mids got the ball, is this the game plan to have them pushing so far up the ground?? Not sure why Oliver was played with a finger injury!Let’s hope it was just last 2 weeks on the road but hey lions travelled also! 

  On 12/04/2024 at 20:41, Bring-Back-Powell said:

My first excuse for Thursday night is we’re tired and badly need a bye after 6 games.

And yet last year we played 13 games without a bye and beat a couple of last year’s top 4 sides in the 12th and 13th game after 5 interstate trips.

Last year in our corresponding 6th game we gritted out a win after coming home from a Perth-Adelaide double and had a total of 3 interstate trips as per this year.

Why are we in so desperate need for a bye this at this time of the year, where as last year we went on a dominant patch between rounds 6 and 9 (albeit against lower teams).

Or are we just too quick to use it as an excuse for our poor loss the other night? Max played like he didn’t need the bye.

I don’t think we need the bye for general fitness reasons. 

I think we need it because we’re carrying too many players with injuries.

Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t we put in a stinker in Round 5 last year vs Essendon? Ended up our worst performance for the year.

I saw similarities in the way the game was umpired last night in the Footscray game and our game against Brisbane.

What happens is free kicks getting paid to one team and not the other. No consistency in the fifteen metre rule.

No bringing people back and around on the mark

Worse was paying some marks and not others.

  On 12/04/2024 at 21:52, Dodos Demons said:

Precisely. How  can it be that 6 rounds in we are physically exhausted? We did have blooded a number of young guys so can understand forget may need a rest but no idea why the senior player (other than Max) appeared out of petrol tickets from the first quarter. Was it an outlier and if so, still have to wonder why.   What happens at the pointy end of the season or even worse, finals. That is was is most concerning. What makes the most sense is that the bulk of the team were suffering some kind of illness but that could also be a convenient narrative to cover over a very weak and flat performance. 

Exhaustion is relative. We were't exhausted compared to how you or I would be playing at AFL intensity week in week out, but compared to a desperate Brisbane who came off an easy win and had their bye already it was night and day.

You only need to be off by a bit - we were off by a lot.

  On 12/04/2024 at 21:52, Dodos Demons said:

Precisely. How  can it be that 6 rounds in we are physically exhausted? We did have blooded a number of young guys so can understand forget may need a rest but no idea why the senior player (other than Max) appeared out of petrol tickets from the first quarter. Was it an outlier and if so, still have to wonder why.   What happens at the pointy end of the season or even worse, finals. That is was is most concerning. What makes the most sense is that the bulk of the team were suffering some kind of illness but that could also be a convenient narrative to cover over a very weak and flat performance. 

The only problem with this argument is that going into Finals last year we were knacked  into the the Finals and didn't come up.

 

Apart from being so knackered, did the club get ahead of itself by celebrating Port and Crows wins too early?

They seemed wrapped that they won those two games . It was a surprise to me.

But did we let the lid off? Especially before the bye.

Or was it just a case of two big games taking their toll.

Port was a tough game and Crows gave everything including the proverbial kitchen sink. Against a federal crowd and umpires.

Lions had a nice training game against the roos.

Food for thought.

It was an out of character performance. I'm sure we will bounce back.
I don't know why we had no energy, but I do note that the lions, pies blues, suns and swans all looked flat the game before their byes. Coincidence? Mental? Who knows.

 

 

I know there were other problems with our performance Thursday night but did they come about because of the number of games played in 12/13 days. It was telling that even at the Presidents Dinner before the game a comment was made to the Melbourne faithful by our President, that "two games in Adelaide with such a short turnaround should never happen again" (not verbatim) and the comment was surely aimed at Andrew Dillon who was sitting in front of her when she said it.

Maybe the toll on the players was greater than we all knew.

I am personally not concerned about this loss however Richmond will be coming after us and if we put in another putrid performance I will be😠

Most of our key forwards need to get some good old fashioned excrement on the liver. 

  On 12/04/2024 at 11:57, DeeSpencer said:

He didn’t do his job last night tho, he was invisible for most of the game. Same for the first half against the Crows.

And it’s not that I don’t think he’s not very talented and good, but I just don’t think we maximise his talent by only playing him in one set role.

We struggled to get the ball over half way most of the night, why have your best forward constantly out the back if the ball never gets there?

Get him leading up to the wing and getting the ball and worry about who’s inside 50 when it gets there 

I don’t think it was the forwards fault. He’s not a bash and crash contested pack mark kinda guy. If everything up field is broken what chance do the forwards have. They are the last piece of the puzzle. They can only provide adequate service if they are provided adequate service. 

  On 12/04/2024 at 03:15, Winners at last said:

"Things are never as bad as they seem."

 

Harper Lee, To Kill a Mockingbird.

Sometimes they're worse.

  On 12/04/2024 at 04:14, Gawndy the Great said:

So usually coming inside 50 after stagnant ball movement there is a defender sitting infront of the goal square ~15-20m out. Our forwards usually 2 or 3 of em in the goal square with the opponents.

Why wouldn't you lead into both pockets and the 3rd forward come straight at the defender. Lead hard and make the defender sweat once you place the ball there. Doing so would draw more free kicks then not (from holding, blocks, chopping etc), your likely to create some panic in defenders. 

That's one thing, there are so many plays, patterns you could do. Why don't we do this? it is U12 forward craft. We take 1-2 contested marks every 3-4 games with the current method of long bomb and hope. It just doesn't work and yet 4 years we persist with this [censored]. Drives me insane. 

People wonder why some go after Goody and the coaching staff. its for these reasons. These are the cracks that get covered with wins. We don't need a generational forward to change this - it is just basic tactics. 

Our forwards are too static and predictable. They clump together and make it easy for their opponents to defend. Also going to the pockets makes it less pressured for them as well. Would like a new forward approach and definitely a new coach going forward. Stafford played in the ruck and his coaching shows that. 

  On 12/04/2024 at 10:58, titan_uranus said:

No way. They are clear on why head high contact gets upgraded to medium. 

So Sydney’s not achieving anything this year?

You do know Richmond have lost like 4-5 of their best players since that game? Some people are tipping West Coast to beat them tomorrow.

clearly loading 

relax guys

  On 13/04/2024 at 02:30, Jack Vineys Anger Manager said:

It was an out of character performance. I'm sure we will bounce back.
I don't know why we had no energy, but I do note that the lions, pies blues, suns and swans all looked flat the game before their byes. Coincidence? Mental? Who knows.

 

 

I think the 2 games prior were both similar, we conceded the territory battle in both and relied on sling shotting when we won it back in defensive 50, it was always a risk if a team could force a stoppage inside our d50 or mark the ball we would be punished. If we can’t start winning more territory which primarily comes down to either winning the clearance or putting enough pressure on the clearance disposal to force a turn over we will be an unreliable team this season. A lot will hinge on Oliver getting fully fit as i don’t see Sparrow or any other mids stepping up enough to fill his shoes 

Edited April 13, 20241 yr by Garbo

  On 13/04/2024 at 07:03, Garbo said:

I think the 2 games prior were both similar, we conceded the territory battle in both and relied on sling shotting when we won it back in defensive 50, it was always a risk if a team could force a stoppage inside our d50 or mark the ball we would be punished. If we can’t start winning more territory which primarily comes down to either winning the clearance or putting enough pressure on the clearance disposal to force a turn over we will be an unreliable team this season. A lot will hinge on Oliver getting fully fit as i don’t see Sparrow or any other mids stepping up enough to fill his shoes 

We won 7 out of 10 games without Oliver last year. Clearly there is some depth.

I've kept away from looking and posting on D-land after Thursday night, it was as bad a performance as I've seen from us for a long time. Worse than the Swans gave of round 0 because at least in that game we gave a yelp before getting overrun. 

Smashed in every facet of the game, no winners on the night. TMac, Lever, and May gave as much as they could in the face of constant pressure and the balls going inside the Lion's forward 50 had absolutely no pressure on it. My biggest consolation is that I don't think we can play worse and it's insanely rare that every one of our prime movers in the middle have such terrible games. 

I think the players and coaching staff need to put a pen through it, obviously still review it properly but also regroup after the bye knowing that that isn't "us". 

I'll also add that we need to be manage BBB in blocks of 3 games, I don't know if that was the plan and injuries/the fixture prevented it, but he was not capable on impacting the play at all.

Tough night but if you offer me 4-2 at the start of the season I'd be happy with that.

  On 13/04/2024 at 08:25, Pates said:

I've kept away from looking and posting on D-land after Thursday night, it was as bad a performance as I've seen from us for a long time. Worse than the Swans gave of round 0 because at least in that game we gave a yelp before getting overrun. 

Smashed in every facet of the game, no winners on the night. TMac, Lever, and May gave as much as they could in the face of constant pressure and the balls going inside the Lion's forward 50 had absolutely no pressure on it. My biggest consolation is that I don't think we can play worse and it's insanely rare that every one of our prime movers in the middle have such terrible games. 

I think the players and coaching staff need to put a pen through it, obviously still review it properly but also regroup after the bye knowing that that isn't "us". 

I'll also add that we need to be manage BBB in blocks of 3 games, I don't know if that was the plan and injuries/the fixture prevented it, but he was not capable on impacting the play at all.

Tough night but if you offer me 4-2 at the start of the season I'd be happy with that.

It was as passive an effort I"ve seen Melbourne put in for a long time.

  On 13/04/2024 at 07:10, He de mon said:

We won 7 out of 10 games without Oliver last year. Clearly there is some depth.

We also had Brayshaw last year and last year isn’t this year. Since Oliver has been injured we haven’t been able to play our preferred way, even Goodwin has come out to say we aren’t winning the way we would like in the 2 games prior. Trying to win from the back half is not sustainable and I can’t see that turning round unless Oliver is part of it 

Edited April 13, 20241 yr by Garbo

  On 12/04/2024 at 12:49, JJR said:

Rubbish take, you're talking about general losses that happen to every team every season. " Heading for a 10 goal loss and escaped it" exactly, we don't get pumped when most teams would in those situations. We were severely cooked against Brisbane you can just see it. That wasn't cracks showing that was pure fatigue. The last we scored 5 cause Brisbane slowed down a bit. Horrible take.

 

Agree any fan could see we were cooked from go to 3/4 time. Brisbane they often do slowed down and again paid the notice.

The only thing I was upset about was that Goody really didn’t change things halfway through the second quarter. If he had rung some moves you never know after last years come from behind win and last quarter recovery in the lights off  match. 

There is no doubt the Lions don’t always play a game out and are gettable if challenged further out than the last quarter. 

Keep that in the memory bank Dees.