Garry Lyon analysis

[Pipefitter 2,168]

Tomlinson has done Pettys job pretty well. Not sure why we would continue to shaft him. It looked like it was finally clicking for Petty up forward when he got injured but when he comes back he goes back. It’s mind boggling. 

[Tolstoys Nudge 1,734]

Everyone does seem to be forgetting that expected score had us winning by 37!!! Fwd issues re entry are real but if we fix that even by 10-15% and kick anywhere else expected score these 2 things combined will have an absolutely ENORMOUS impact and perfect conditions @ Marvel is 💯 the place to start to see that begin to come to fruition!

 

I think the wet weather exacerbated the whole thing our last dry game we beat the unbeatable Collingwood minus our best player! Just let that percolate for a sec. Yes there’s issues but blv Me it is FAR BETTER to have fixable issues than personnel or major gameplan issues both of which require an off-season and preseason to correct.

 

I’m livid right now but I’m also aware it can all change very very quickly and I think losing Fritta might actually help our balance a little whilst we work through this period.

[beelzebub 23,383]

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

ANB was terrible and fumbly when he began as a player. So much so he was put on the trade list with no takers. He came back and was an integral part of our premiership. 

But I have noticed that how has now returned to that fumbly unreliable player. In particular when he is about to be tackled he hugs the ball and goes to ground. It looks like its under instruction - to create a stoppage - but it seems to be happening more and more.

Is letting us down increasingly so not sure what to do with him.

His kicking in the dying moments ....summed us up...   couldn't hit a paddock, let alone a barn. He's a little hit and a lotta miss.  Sadly....not alone.

[The heart beats true 18,145]

55 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Hes highlighting an issue thats been our bug bear for most of the season. We're clueless forward. Intuitive forward craft gets burnt by what must be a directive.  The spotlight is now firmly again on us as we're faltering....again.  Yes the media love a beat up often. They look around for easy targets mostly.....and by christ we make ourselves an easy subject for commentary.

How exactly was he supposed to be more 'balanced'....is that some form of 'affirmitive journalism' ??   Like saying...well Melbourne are [censored] up...but it's forgivable because...X, Y or Z ?

He, and many others, are unfortuntaely just being very matter of fact about it.. It's invariably we supporters that add a tint to our observations...Take that away... it's not pretty

I was making a more broad observation about the state of football media.

Im not sure what your last 2 paragraphs mean (which is not unusual). Feel free to whip yourself into your usual post loss frenzy though. You’re really good at it. 👍

[beelzebub 23,383]

1 hour ago, Nudge said:

Everyone does seem to be forgetting that expected score had us winning by 37!!! Fwd issues re entry are real but if we fix that even by 10-15% and kick anywhere else expected score these 2 things combined will have an absolutely ENORMOUS impact and perfect conditions @ Marvel is 💯 the place to start to see that begin to come to fruition!

 

I think the wet weather exacerbated the whole thing our last dry game we beat the unbeatable Collingwood minus our best player! Just let that percolate for a sec. Yes there’s issues but blv Me it is FAR BETTER to have fixable issues than personnel or major gameplan issues both of which require an off-season and preseason to correct.

 

I’m livid right now but I’m also aware it can all change very very quickly and I think losing Fritta might actually help our balance a little whilst we work through this period.

We played a very different style of game v Collingwood.   That was enormously successful .  Why have we reverted to rubbish ?? I'm genuinely curious. I bet I'm not alone

[Roost it far 8,616]

41 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

We played a very different style of game v Collingwood.   That was enormously successful .  Why have we reverted to rubbish ?? I'm genuinely curious. I bet I'm not alone

No we played a very similar style. We also kicked poorly and were  about 60 seconds from losing that game.

[beelzebub 23,383]

53 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

No we played a very similar style. We also kicked poorly and were  about 60 seconds from losing that game.

Considering we were playing a fairly in form ( though a couple missing ) Collingwood we went ok.

Id argue our style was more akin to that earlier in year... we brought it into the corridor a lot more... we didn't blaze away into the pockets....we lowered our eyes.

We CAN do all those things.....just not often it appears.

[Roost it far 8,616]

2 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Considering we were playing a fairly in form ( though a couple missing ) Collingwood we went ok.

Id argue our style was more akin to that earlier in year... we brought it into the corridor a lot more... we didn't blaze away into the pockets....we lowered our eyes.

We CAN do all those things.....just not often it appears.

I don’t think wet conditions help us at all 

[demon3165 2,804]

People are missing the point, having McVee or Bowey forward is not going to help, it's the game-plan going into the forward line, it's that simple, they never change angles, all fly for the same mark etc poor JVR is a kid but gets no protection from other forwards against opposition players, BBB is a lead up forward but hey lets not try that lets all stay together, if anything try McVee into the midfield he has a footy brain but do something.

 

[beelzebub 23,383]

2 hours ago, demon3165 said:

People are missing the point, having McVee or Bowey forward is not going to help, it's the game-plan going into the forward line, it's that simple, they never change angles, all fly for the same mark etc poor JVR is a kid but gets no protection from other forwards against opposition players, BBB is a lead up forward but hey lets not try that lets all stay together, if anything try McVee into the midfield he has a footy brain but do something.

 

Thankyou.... it's not the who....it's the how. 

[beelzebub 23,383]

2 hours ago, Roost it far said:

I don’t think wet conditions help us at all 

Nup...been our undoing ( well a big part of it ) all year. 

Hopefully a roof helps ;) 

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

6 hours ago, Nudge said:

I thought BBB looked good, esp given conditions! Expect 3-4 this week

Fair point 

I guess my comment was about overall output this season compared to 2021.

I hope he can bring something but I'm not going to hold my breath.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

I just hope we don't use the Oliver injury as a cop out as to why our session will pitter out.

Clearly our issues revolve around an inability to connect up forward and the inability for true forwards to be effective.

I can't pin point issues but based on the consistent ineffective output is obvious there is something not right down there.

[rpfc 28,779]

10 hours ago, rjay said:

You do understand that Gary is first & foremost an entertainer, a football personality. Whether good or not is up to personal taste...

He's been in the media since he retired, not in the game. He's never coached at AFL level...

I have no issue with him critiquing us...I just don't put as much weight in that critique as you seem too.

I would love to hear Chris Scott's critique, that would be very relevant.

I would also love to get a full backgrounding from our FD on our game plan

Of course that won't happen.

 

The weight you give those that have coached is misplaced. The best NBA mind in the media is a bloke called Zach Lowe and he never got near being in an organisation. 

Also, Garry has great contacts at the club and would have quite a bit of background on how we are playing or meant to play.

[SPC 3,552]

I think we need to stack our half forward/midfield with our best ball users and have Brown, Petty and JVR forward (no Grundy) even if it means our small backs are compromised. Converting forward entries to goals is more important than soaking up opposition inside 50s. Need to attack harder than we defend. Exciting footy is contagious footy. 
We are like the Carlton team Mick Malthouse coached 

[IRW 1,387]

14 hours ago, dee-tox said:

It's a collective problem. None of our mids have elite kicking skills. We are an exceptionally strong see ball get ball team. The game plan is to bomb long to an outnumbered forward line and hopefully scrounge a goal more often than the opposition. It's not a good system but one based on our skill set. 

Yes its a team sport so I get that it's a collective problem but when the best players don't drag the team up if  required,  when they don't rectify their own  errors or don't " lead by example"  the "collective " standards are minimised without anyone noticing.

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,708]

On 7/4/2023 at 1:19 PM, DubDee said:

Does anyone seriously think the coaches are instructing the players entering the 50 to kick as high and long as possible, preferably to Stewart/Haynes etc?

if its true they should all be sacked. 

but Its extremely unlikely to be true

Why are they continuing to do it though DD?

With no pressure at times also?

Thats what we would like to know.

[beelzebub 23,383]

21 minutes ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

Why are they continuing to do it though DD?

With no pressure at times also?

Thats what we would like to know.

Bizarre isnt it... 

Occams Razor...   

If they're doing it time after time after time.... with no remonstrance from the bench.....I'm going with instruction ;) 

Edited July 5, 2023 by beelzebub

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

Way i see it we could actually be a really exciting side but our coach is deploying the troops in completely the wrong fashion, positionally, tactically and it shows zero trust in our players.  It is an indictment on Goodwin we are playing such negative drivel with the most talented list i have ever seen.

Quite simply there are changes that need to be made with our gameplan.

*Use of wingers...The way we use ours is disgraceful.  Are they instructed to run as wide as they can along either boundary side? There is zero possibility that we can have either of our wings linking up in the same play.  They very rarely have any option other than a kick down the line the way they are deployed.

My Suggestion....Get them to run the lines of the outside of the square...If one needs to move across to mid wing the other should be running more through the middle so they are at least within kicking distances of each other.  Also they will have option both inside and out.  

*Use of half fowrards/half backs...Mcvee, Bowey, Kossie, Chandler, Rivers are all good ball users that we are not using with our current style.   Our forwards are defending the length of the field and are all getting lost withing forward 50 on repeat stoppages.  Our backs are pretty fine, they need to be trusted to defend with the help of full back line and onballers.

My suggestion....Bring all the half forwards up into the corners of the centre square, likewise with the half backs.  We could have a combination of Mcvee, Bowey, Kossie, Chandler, Rivers + Petracca Viney, Sparrow, Langdon and Hunter that could all be running rampant and controlling the centre square and really hurting teams on the rebound by hand and foot.

Selection Integrity/positional changes/possible favourites....We can't keep getting this so wrong.  Tomlinson needs to come back into this team badly. He never should have been dropped, it is one of the bigeest selection bloopers i have ever seen.    Petty did not set the world on fire as a forward but he did stop the best intercepting defender from getting a free run at it all day, In his last game before where unfortunately got injured, he was looking like he was going to have a break out game in  the position offensively. He needs to go back there it is no accident in the last 2 weeks Stewart and then Haynes has destroyed us without someone like Petty making them accountable.  We probably win both games with him forward and Tomlinson back.

Our system is mess but we have the cattle to actually fix this.

If SImon is prepared to trust them and use their skills with a more open, attacking gameplan, the sky is the limit with this team.

Our assistant coackes in Yze/Williams/RIchardson would be throwing ideas at Goodwin.  Last 5 weeks i see a lot of doubling down on style of game that is ugly and unproductive and unexciting for the ridiculous amount of effort they are expending.  WIth this list we should not be trying to stay within games, we should be actually whalloping some of them with way too much grunt. 

We have some exciting players, let them play Simon, stop this old gamplan where you presume they are all unreliable by hand/and or foot.  Let them play, currently they are all hampered by this hideously negative  combative mess you have created by design.  Listen to the assistant coaches, don't waste this great list.

[DubDee 26,117]

1 hour ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

Why are they continuing to do it though DD?

With no pressure at times also?

Thats what we would like to know.

i honestly have no idea. 

i know the giants turned it over constantly as we did. but they took their chances in front of goal 

[demon3165 2,804]

23 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Way i see it we could actually be a really exciting side but our coach is deploying the troops in completely the wrong fashion, positionally, tactically and it shows zero trust in our players.  It is an indictment on Goodwin we are playing such negative drivel with the most talented list i have ever seen.

Quite simply there are changes that need to be made with our gameplan.

*Use of wingers...The way we use ours is disgraceful.  Are they instructed to run as wide as they can along either boundary side? There is zero possibility that we can have either of our wings linking up in the same play.  They very rarely have any option other than a kick down the line the way they are deployed.

My Suggestion....Get them to run the lines of the outside of the square...If one needs to move across to mid wing the other should be running more through the middle so they are at least within kicking distances of each other.  Also they will have option both inside and out.  

*Use of half fowrards/half backs...Mcvee, Bowey, Kossie, Chandler, Rivers are all good ball users that we are not using with our current style.   Our forwards are defending the length of the field and are all getting lost withing forward 50 on repeat stoppages.  Our backs are pretty fine, they need to be trusted to defend with the help of full back line and onballers.

My suggestion....Bring all the half forwards up into the corners of the centre square, likewise with the half backs.  We could have a combination of Mcvee, Bowey, Kossie, Chandler, Rivers + Petracca Viney, Sparrow, Langdon and Hunter that could all be running rampant and controlling the centre square and really hurting teams on the rebound by hand and foot.

Selection Integrity/positional changes/possible favourites....We can't keep getting this so wrong.  Tomlinson needs to come back into this team badly. He never should have been dropped, it is one of the bigeest selection bloopers i have ever seen.    Petty did not set the world on fire as a forward but he did stop the best intercepting defender from getting a free run at it all day, In his last game before where unfortunately got injured, he was looking like he was going to have a break out game in  the position offensively. He needs to go back there it is no accident in the last 2 weeks Stewart and then Haynes has destroyed us without someone like Petty making them accountable.  We probably win both games with him forward and Tomlinson back.

Our system is mess but we have the cattle to actually fix this.

If SImon is prepared to trust them and use their skills with a more open, attacking gameplan, the sky is the limit with this team.

Our assistant coackes in Yze/Williams/RIchardson would be throwing ideas at Goodwin.  Last 5 weeks i see a lot of doubling down on style of game that is ugly and unproductive and unexciting for the ridiculous amount of effort they are expending.  WIth this list we should not be trying to stay within games, we should be actually whalloping some of them with way too much grunt. 

We have some exciting players, let them play Simon, stop this old gamplan where you presume they are all unreliable by hand/and or foot.  Let them play, currently they are all hampered by this hideously negative  combative mess you have created by design.  Listen to the assistant coaches, don't waste this great list.

You are spot on your thoughts, but with selection ANB, Harmes should be out but Goody is just predictable in his selection same old players go out and the same in, Thommo and Turner should be looked at.

[dazzledavey36 55,359]

This is spot on.

 

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

10 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

This is spot on.

 

Yeh but @rjaysays that these guys don't know what they're talking about so let's not listen.

Everything's fine everyone. 

We're loading and we're fine. 

Relax. 

Jeez. 

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

4 minutes ago, demon3165 said:

You are spot on your thoughts, but with selection ANB, Harmes should be out but Goody is just predictable in his selection same old players go out and the same in, Thommo and Turner should be looked at.

When it comes to selecting players i think picking Harmes/AnB actually hurts us. i would be moving Bowey forward to play his role but in more of a point guard role in basketball.  A distributer  who creates which his sure ball handling and great skills. Sadly ANB busts a gut but fumbles from start to finish of games, wet or dry. He is never going to overly get better in this regard, he is a limited player we revolve our gameplan around. Harmes tries really hard but run around like a headless chicken with zero idea of structure.  When he plays i know we are in trouble.  Harmes out of the midfield and get Rivers in there who has clearly been our most improved this year. He deserves a shot and would create some much needed drive/grunt/desperation/ability. Then get Woey/Tomlinson/Turner/Howes in the backline to replace Bowey/Rivers. 

Pretty sure JVR should not have been dropped for BB.  i believe we are making so many selection blunders atm. Pesonally i have no faith that our coach can get it right. He seems like he is fumbling with a great list. He was a great player.  He is not a great coach. Stupid or stubborn or defensive minded either way it is killing us.

[rjay 25,091]

43 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

This is spot on.

 

 

31 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Yeh but @rjaysays that these guys don't know what they're talking about so let's not listen.

Everything's fine everyone. 

We're loading and we're fine. 

Relax. 

Jeez. 

Thanks for reinforcing my point 'Jimmy'...

Bartel is not long out of the game & his analysis is pretty good.