PREGAME: Rd 17 vs St. Kilda

[Dido 78]

I agree with your post about the ins Binman, especially the point about JVR.  to enhance his development as a player and maximize the likelihood he is fit, firing and in ripping form come finals. I listened to Goodie just after the the GWS defeat and even though Fritsch was injured Goodie indicated, with a funny smirk on his face,  that JVR was still 'learning'.  It was obvious early in the week JVR would not be playing against the Saints

Dees to win easily with the goal kicking yips to be put to bed!

 

 

[Guest]

32 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Read your inbox.  I know you don't like to hear ANYTHING negative about our players or coaches or anything MFC.  I will not be posting on this forum for some time so that is one less person you going to have to ignore.  

Believe it or not... was just posting what i thought even though it might have been horribly slanted towards the negative.   It was not written to hurt yours or other peoples feelings, and for others to jump down my throat because they simply disagree or don't like the manner in which i attacked a coach of the precious MFC we all love.

I get it, i defend our players and coaches too when i feel they are getting attacked, especially if it is not warranted or ignorant. 

ANyway, not sure why i even bothered to respond...i am out.

Read yours. 💖

[beelzebub 23,376]

Are we to suppose we ARE looking to straighten up our inbounding ?

The only talls i can see playing in the arc is Benny...and probably a resting Ruck.

This to me suggests ( my god..hopefully) a lot less if any bombing. Being 'shorter' forward are we lowering eyes and opening up , giving ourselves some space ?? 

Time will tell

Go Dees

[layzie 33,801]

This week has torn us apart. Hopefully we get back to being nice to each other.

[bobby1554 1,244]

Just now, layzie said:

This week has torn us apart. Hopefully we get back to being nice to each other.

Just wait till next week

[hemingway 7,627]

4 hours ago, binman said:

Some additional context for my post about the ins MT:

• My perspective on selection is informed by a belief that we are coming to the end of s heavy block of training designed to maximize the likelihood we are cherry ripe come finals  
• This block of training exacerbates the accumulative fatigue of the season and individual matches (like last weeks game, which would have been super tiring given our contest numbers and the weather) 
• The form of the team suffers as result of this fatigue, as does the form of individual players - with some, particularly younger players, being impacted more than others
• [Note: even if you are of view that fatigue is only a minor consideration, or don't believe we do a mid season heavy block of training that impacts our performance, the fact remains the pattern is crystal clear. This is third season in a row where we have had a significant mid season slump characterized by losses in games when favorite, a drop off in skills, a drop off in performance by the team and individual players (particularly younger players) and chronic inaccuracy. So whatever someone's explanation is for that pattern, surely one of them can't be that it's just a weird coincidence] 
• The coaching panel are juggling multiple, often competing, imperatives in terms of selection for the games in this phase of the season - picking a team that can win the game, load management of the team, load management of individual players, development of individual players and most of all maximizing the chances of winning a flag 
• The campaign is not about winning the individual battles (but of course you have to win enough of those battles to be top 4), it is about winning the war - as much as the footy media would love fans to believe it, each game isn't a must win game, an isolated event or a litmus test on premiership chances
• So, just as i suggested prior to the Cats game when i predicted Spargo would be the sub for load management reasons, the selection would be different for the Saints' game if their sole imperative was to win the game - if it was, JVR probably gets selected
• As an example of how my perspective informs my thinking on selection, I agree Spargo has been down on form the last few weeks but i think fatigue is likely the main cause (same is true of Chandler, who needs a chop out and is getting one, and other players too) and as opposed to dropping him for form, they are managing his game time as part of his fitness program
• I always find the debate on selection a little hard to engage with because it's often not clear to me whether posters are expressing an opinion on who they think should be selected or who they think will be selected
• Normally, i am in the latter camp
• So when i predicted earlier in this thread the ins would be Woey (who had been announced at that point), Jordon and Spargo, it was based on my prediction of what would happen, not what i think should happen
• And that prediction was informed by all of the above dot points
• So, for example, i view JVR's non-selection through the lens of the club wanting to give a young player a break from the rigors of senior AFL football (he is only 19, and in his second season, which is crazy young for a key forward), to enhance his development as a player. work on deficits and maximize the likelihood he is fit, firing and in ripping form come finals
• I find some of the criticism of selection ironic, as sometimes it comes from posters who this time last year were vociferously bemoaning Goody's so called stubbornness, refusal to be more flexible with selection, not bringing in fresh players from Casey, not managing players, not rewarding form at Casey, and, horrors of horrors, not copying the Cats 'squad mentality'  
• There's a double irony, because before the season started, goody, almost as if answering his DL critics, said we would 100% be taking a different approach to selection this season and taking more of a squad mentality
• And Goody has been true to his word - and of course still gets slammed by some of the very same posters knocking him last year for his static selection policy
• I don't share the sky is falling, jumping at shadows vibe that permeates DL at this time of year (well, the last three years) - we are tracking fine and in my opinion will make top 4 and win the flag
• To be clear, i also accept there is a very good chance we won't win the flag. To demonstrate what i mean by this seeming contradiction, for the sake of argument, let's say the Pies' current odds with the bookies (aprox $3 - which translates to 2-1) are an accurate reflection of the 'true odds' of them winning the flag. At those odds, if the season is played out 100 times, even as 2-1 favorites they still lose lose 40 times.
• By the by, i don't care what team it is - $3 for any time of the year is ridiculously short odds (under the 'true' odds) given so many things could go wrong between now and the end of September that could negatively impact their chances of winning the flag - eg Nick Daicos tears his hammy badly in round 24. Taking $3 now for the Pies to win the flag is the equivalent of backing the favorite for the Melbourne Cup on the futures market 3 months out from the race - a bet the bookies salivate over as it is money for jam for them. Which is why they have a futures market.
• I had the same view in 2021 and again last season. I could care less if that view is again dismissed as being delusional.
• By the by, my perspective on the arc of the season has sometimes been dismissed on the grounds that i was somehow proven 'wrong' last year because we got knocked out of the finals in straight sets. That opinion is logically inconsistent if it is not also accepted i was right in 2021. 
• I'm batting .500 - not bad when talking predicting flags. 

Binners my attention span is sagging under the weight of words. No chance of an executive summary that I can read before I die or before the game. 

[Beetle 4,659]

1 hour ago, layzie said:

This week has torn us apart. Hopefully we get back to being nice to each other.

I think Johnny says it best…

[Dannyz 2,757]

Trac will start as a forward, JJ will start in the midfield and Smith will be our Sub. 

[Roost it far 8,273]

2 minutes ago, Dannyz said:

Trac will start as a forward, JJ will start in the midfield and Smith will be our Sub. 

Is that fact or best guess?

[Diamond_Jim 12,588]

Just got the email from MFC offering GF packages.

$1500.... will we make it?

If the Pies make it and we don't I should have no trouble offloading the ticket at face value

Decisions... decisions

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,821]

8 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Just got the email from MFC offering GF packages.

$1500.... will we make it?

If the Pies make it and we don't I should have no trouble offloading the ticket at face value

Decisions... decisions

I'd entertain the option if you've got the liquidity now. You'll absolutely get reimbursed (in theory) if Collingwood make it.

Not that I encourage scalping as it's illegal, but grand final tickets are going to be the most in demand in the history of the AFL/VFL due to Collingwood's phenomenal crowd pulling factor.

Collingwood supporters who don't have GF guarantee will have only dreamt of paying $1,500 in July, as people will be willing to fork out astronomical amounts during grand final week.

[Nascent 9,212]

19 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Is that fact or best guess?

Poster has a very good track record. Would take as fact.

[beelzebub 23,376]

3 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I'd entertain the option if you've got the liquidity now. You'll absolutely get reimbursed (in theory) if Collingwood make it.

Not that I encourage scalping as it's illegal, but grand final tickets are going to be the most in demand in the history of the AFL/VFL due to Collingwood's phenomenal crowd pulling factor.

Collingwood supporters who don't have GF guarantee will have only dreamt of paying $1,500 in July, as people will be willing to fork out astronomical amounts during grand final week.

What is "the" position regarding 'offloading'...( with...umm.... compensation  ) ...

Asking for a mate ....

[binman 42,958]

55 minutes ago, hemingway said:

Binners my attention span is sagging under the weight of words. No chance of an executive summary that I can read before I die or before the game. 

Blimey, even Hemingway can't process more than 280 characters these days!

[sue 9,106]

6 hours ago, binman said:

Nup.

VFL is 100% a chop out - way, way less intense, shorter quarters and because the stakes are not as high, much more flexibility to manage minutes or for example, give a player some specific things to work on and/or play a different role (which might be about helping him work on specific things - eg sending a forward back to improve his defensive skills - or just to free him up to get his hands on the pill).

See goody's comments about why they ran spargo through Casey after his concussion (precis: the lower intensity of the vfl meant we could ease him back in after what was a bad concussion)

I'd add to that  playing in the VFL provides a chance of getting a big confidence boost after being up against experienced AFL backs.

[Nascent 9,212]

2 minutes ago, binman said:

Blimey, even Hemingway can't process more than 280 characters these days!

He's just being earnest.

[binman 42,958]

1 hour ago, hemingway said:

Binners my attention span is sagging under the weight of words. No chance of an executive summary that I can read before I die or before the game. 

Exec summary:

We are near the end of the phase of coming into each match super fatigued.

It is this fatigue that is at the heart of our current performance issues -just as was the case in 2021 and 2022 (there's a pattern) 

Our fast, aggressive ball movement, high scoring and accuracy will all return.

We will win the flag this season.

Everyone take a chill pill.

Edited July 7, 2023 by binman

[Adam The God 30,256]

6 hours ago, Damo said:

Um.. kick straight against any of a few losses this year already and we win. Lets at least not try to kick from 50 unless your David Neitz. Pass to someone in the pocket and let them kick around the corner. Higher percentage of a good score. Forwards need to create space. Its not rocket surgery.

Well, yeah, if we'd kicked straighter the last 5 games, we'd be equal top, having beaten Port, Freo, Geelong and GWS, and very likely on top with a percentage advantage given the number of scoring shots we've been able to generate.

If this turns, we'll be very difficult to beat.

Let's hope it starts tomorrow.

[Stu 923]

2 minutes ago, A F said:

Well, yeah, if we'd kicked straighter the last 5 games, we'd be equal top, having beaten Port, Freo, Geelong and GWS, and very likely on top with a percentage advantage given the number of scoring shots we've been able to generate.

If this turns, we'll be very difficult to beat.

Let's hope it starts tomorrow.

Well said! 

[Adam The God 30,256]

10 minutes ago, A F said:

Well, yeah, if we'd kicked straighter the last 5 games, we'd be equal top, having beaten Port, Freo, Geelong and GWS, and very likely on top with a percentage advantage given the number of scoring shots we've been able to generate.

If this turns, we'll be very difficult to beat.

Let's hope it starts tomorrow.

Similarly, how long can Port keep their momentum up? I wouldn't mind betting their strategy is based around getting a top 4 spot and hoping their home ground advantage puts them in a GF, but they don't appear to have fatigued like us, Brisbane and Collingwood, which leads me to conclude that they've got a different program to us, so I'm betting their form will drop away. But top 2 is looking good for them.

Edited July 7, 2023 by A F

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

3 hours ago, layzie said:

This week has torn us apart. Hopefully we get back to being nice to each other.

[Stu 923]

14 minutes ago, A F said:

Similarly, how long can Port keep their momentum up? I wouldn't mind betting their strategy is based around getting a top 4 spot and hoping their home ground advantage puts them in a GF, but they don't appear to have fatigued like us, Brisbane and Collingwood, which leads me to conclude that they've got a different program to us, so I'm betting their form will drop away. But top 2 is looking good for them.

It’s also been well publicised that the decision on Hinkley’s contract will be made in August. He may we’ll have set out the plan this year to get as many wins in the H&A season as possible, and take a gamble on the finals, to sure up his contract. 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,395]

4 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

I know Tomlinson was dropped after the Collingwood game but he was also dropped earlier in the season when he was poor against Brisbane and whilst we won the following 2 weeks against those sides (Swans and Eagles) it was nothing to do with Tomo being dropped.

Smith was poor with his positioning against Stewart 4th quarter and last week, whilst Smith was poor, the method of entry was the major factor which enabled Haynes to intercept.

We need a total reset with regard to our forward entries and structure. Tomlinson won’t change that, and I prefer our defence to remain strong with Petty back.  We need to pause our entries or at least our mids need to drive out of the clearances with their legs and hit a lead or space for our forwards to lead into not just bomb it. Our forwards need some separation or else there is no point playing Ben Brown. Melksham for all his faults is smart enough to play the negating forward and Spargo is very good with his decision making and poise in and around the F50

I was happy when we returned to two tall defenders plus Lever and I also would rather Petty than Tomlinson but Petty wasn’t ready to play against Geelong, could of easily been brought in the week after.

Yes to separation of our fwds.

[Spargonicus 539]

8 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

Someone who has downed tools wouldn’t be playing consistently good footy in the VFL nor being in the physical condition he’s in. 
I think he’s been nothing but professional, in the face of a lot of disappointment…but that’s from the outside looking in. 

I rather trust that than someone saying on the internet he has a bad attitude. I think this past month has been a good example of why you shouldn’t believe the rubbish you read online. 

Well said, sir.

I can say from recent personal experience, that people say some things that are nothing but nefarious and rabble-rousing. It’s sad but true. 

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,938]

17 hours ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

I wasn’t at that match but another member of the DA was. She didn’t sit (stand) with the DA (where you can’t hear much from the middle because of the ever-present noise), instead she stood with her family members at a quieter part of the boundary. She said she could hear the GWS players constantly yelling encouragement to each other, pumping each other up, instructing each other etc. Our players? Crickets chirping. She heard nothing from our boys. Not even the usually-vocal Ricky Lever was making a noise. 

Orally loading perhaps