17 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

What? And get a fine, and put a target on us? He knows how the bigger game is played.

I think there’s still some margin outside of where he ventured. 
How about “yeah, the game was super greasy and there were other calls that we’ll query with the AFL.”

The fact that the maggots can’t read the status of the game and the conditions that are impacting the players is the most alarming thing for me. 

34 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

You wonder sometimes if the whole thing hasnt gone stale.

What worked once has been eclipsed.

I'd like to know howca team with a list the envy of many a footy dept can turn up and turn it up so woefully. 

Last night was only maginally removed from embarrassing. 

"Stale" is a good description .. as a player would you be wondering about the incessant boundary tactics when the rest of the comp has moved onto fast corridor play.

If the "lose the clearance and get them on the rebound" is a real strategy it's laughable against the better teams

Edited May 20, 20232 yr by Diamond_Jim

8 minutes ago, A F said:

Butters had 8 disposals at 50% efficiency in the final quarter. We didn't lose the game because of Butters.

We lost the game because of our inability to be clean at ground level and bring the pressure for the first half.

And yet, if Chandler kicks the snap late, we win. Irrespective of Butters' contribution and the umpires to his scoreline, our system wins it, had the players been as clean as Port were. We weren't, so lost by less than a kick in hostile territory after basically playing a quarter of footy.

I like and understand what you're saying. However if port had kicked straight in the first half we would of lost by 30.

I've been wearing those rose coloured glasses as well. [censored] the world looks better with them on!

Edited May 20, 20232 yr by Roost it far

28 minutes ago, Redleg said:

It was also their job to pay other blatant frees too, not just umpire for the crowd.

How could a forearm to Max’s face in a marking attempt not be paid, or the hit to his head on the wing, or the hit to Tracc’s head, or Tom Mac being grabbed around the face by Jonas and then copping holding the ball, or the 15 metre throw in towards Port’s goal and straight to a Port player not be recalled, just as a few examples of disgraceful one sided umpiring.

It happened to the Bombers and Pies there as well recently with the only difference being their coaches mentioned it.

That said Port deserved to win.

I thought with the rain we were a bit top heavy as well.

And im not disagreeing with any of that?

You said the free would never have been paid because it would have decided the outcome. Im simply saying thats not correct.

 

1 minute ago, Roost it far said:

I like and understand what you're saying. However if port had kicked straight in the first half we would of lost by 30.

I've been wearing those rose coloured glasses as well. [censored] the world looks better with them on!

Sure, they should have been further up at half time, but we should have brought pressure and work rate for the first half and didn't.

Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems.

We're in the top 4 for most attacking and defensive stats. Yet, we have a lot of room for improvement.

Given it's May, there should be some room for optimism. But you've already planted your anti-Goodwin flag, so that'll be harder to see past.

I though Salem was solid last night, given how much time he's had out of the game. I really appreciated that ability his decision making and ability to hit a target coming out of the back line.

Demonland is a hard read after a loss. 

 

 

The good, the bad, the ugly and the why!!

The Good!

Credit to Port they came to play and over four quarters were terrific, played tough, unrelenting footy, Butters brilliant and almost everyone contributed from their team, half a dozen players really hot!!

For the demons to only lose by 4 points when only May, Rivers, Oliver, Trac for a qtr, and Hunter played well, rest of team down! Demons to tall for conditions. Of the Port goals at least half came from frees or incorrect non decisions - look in particular at last 4 or 5, Butters free 3/4 time, Finlayson acting free, Max smashed in middle nothing, TMac smashed on wing nothing, Viney head taken off nothing, mark that hit the ground, Lever 2nd non 50 paid, frees 9-2 last qtr.

The Demons led by Trac played 20 brilliant minutes of football, so we can do it, just needed more effort over other 3.5 quarters.

The Bad

Only 5 players showed up, so team preparation not great.

TMac & JVR both poor, JVR only game5/6 so will learn.

Max left to his own devices, who else ran in to remonstrate as he was bumped, and blocked all match long.

How are we getting so smashed out of the middle?

Umpiring enough said above, but impact was in order of 5 goals the difference! Plus Clarry called for 3 throws, maybe right, but JHF did a great one handed throw while other hand pinned, blindingly obvious, Powell Pepper double handed throw over head, different rules for the teams! Free against Fritsch going for a mark side on, versus Lycett smashing Gawn!

Ugly

Only 20 mins effort out of four quarters.

Butters let run free all night!

Umpiring just hopeless even a number of Demon frees in the 3rd hard to fathom.

Umpires heavily influenced result, when their job is to go unnoticed.

Zero protection for Max!”

Channel 7 commentary & commentators pathetic!

The Why

Demons not up for the game! Why!

Why not move Pickett onto Butters, he was ineffective up forward, get Butters to take him to the ball, and Kossie has speed and can tackle!

Play wet weather football!

Pick a team for wet weather football!

Give Salem one week in the VFL to get some touch and match fitness before playing AFL!

Petty was missed. One of BBB, TMac, Joel Smith need to lift to fill the void.

Manage JVR carefully!

Final comments

Port played their best, umpires favoured them re scoreboard impact, and even though they deserved to win they were lucky to win!

Demons had very few contributors on the night, but nearly got home! 
We really need one of JVR, BbB, TMac, Joel Smith, Scasche  to lift and play FF. If Petty gets back and is fit, think he can hold down CHF!

Win next bl**dy week!

Edited May 20, 20232 yr by D4Life
Added Scasche even if can’t spell him

Our back line just doesn’t seem to be as dependable this year.

I really think Petty is the key to that as he frees everyone else up to do their thing.

 

The more I think about the way we play, the less I think we maximise our list.

Sitting the ball on the head of Max/Grundy/T-Mac/JVR/BBB is not conducive to anything other than injuries over the long term.

Likewise, playing the boundary gives our smalls the least amount of room to work in and basically lessens their chance of being effective.

ANB, Kozzie, Chin, Spargs are all being asked to do their job in the worst possible circumstances, similarly all the talls

The’ve all given it a go over an extended period of time but the novelty surely wears off

Edited May 20, 20232 yr by BW511

2 minutes ago, Boots and all said:

I though Salem was solid last night, given how much time he's had out of the game. I really appreciated that ability his decision making and ability to hit a target coming out of the back line.

18 disposals... only one less than Rivers... a nice bright spot

Does anyone have stats on metres gained for Salem?

40 minutes ago, Redleg said:

There is nothing wrong with backing your system and players, but when it’s not working, there is a lot wrong with not adapting or changing what is happening.

It would not be stupid to suggest, given the 4 point margin, that putting a hard tag on Butters for the second half would have won us the game, despite everything else.

There was a lot we were doing last night that was diabolically wrong and a lot they were doing that was right. Logic almost demands to minimise both. 

Leaving Butters off the leash was dumb to the nth.

Not sure our BRAND is De Rigueur 

Unfortunately I think we are just a better than average side. When we get on a roll we are amazing, but more often than not we are getting belted in contest and territory for large chunks of games. 
 

7-1 Free kicks in FWD 50 last night, feel like it’s been similar story all year, ball coming in quickly and too often, our defenders are panicking. 

The two most frustrating decisions for me were the two holding the ball calls against Petracca, the last one resulting in the match winner for port. 
 

Edited May 20, 20232 yr by DaveyJones'sLocker

17 minutes ago, A F said:

Sure, they should have been further up at half time, but we should have brought pressure and work rate for the first half and didn't.

Nothing is ever as good or as bad as it seems.

We're in the top 4 for most attacking and defensive stats. Yet, we have a lot of room for improvement.

Given it's May, there should be some room for optimism. But you've already planted your anti-Goodwin flag, so that'll be harder to see past.

I have planted it but I'll also take it down if and when he fixes some of his flaws which you know he has

We did not play well enough to win the game. BTW, rules state that "No Player can enter this area". Umpire sees JHF enter the prohibited zone, says "Jason, Jason". Surely that should have been a free kick?

Food for thought going foward... into Winter, arguably poorer weather.

We are very over rated I'm affraid.   If the ball is slippery or its just raining our game goes to water.   Some very dumb ideas about how you play wet weather footy.
Not going too far playing rubbish like that. Port supposedly undermanned...totally outplayed  us.

14 minutes ago, D4Life said:

The good, the bad, the ugly and the why!!

The Good!

Credit to Port they came to play and over four quarters were terrific, played tough, unrelenting footy, Butters brilliant and almost everyone contributed from their team, half a dozen players really hot!!

For the demons to only lose by 4 points when only May, Rivers, Oliver, Trac for a qtr, and Hunter played well, rest of team down! Demons to tall for conditions. Of the Port goals at least half came from frees or incorrect non decisions - look in particular at last 4 or 5, Butters free 3/4 time, Finlayson acting free, Max smashed in middle nothing, TMac smashed on wing nothing, Viney head taken off nothing, mark that hit the ground, Lever 2nd non 50 paid, frees 9-2 last qtr.

The Demons led by Trac played 20 brilliant minutes of football, so we can do it, just needed more effort over other 3.5 quarters.

The Bad

Only 5 players showed up, so team preparation not great.

TMac & JVR both poor, JVR only game5/6 so will learn.

Max left to his own devices, who else ran in to remonstrate as he was bumped, and blocked all match long.

How are we getting so smashed out of the middle?

Umpiring enough said above, but impact was in order of 5 goals the difference! Plus Clarry called for 3 throws, maybe right, but JHF did a great one handed throw while other hand pinned, blindingly obvious, Powell Pepper double handed throw over head, different rules for the teams! Free against Fritsch going for a mark side on, versus Lycett smashing Gawn!

Ugly

Only 20 mins effort out of four quarters.

Butters let run free all night!

Umpiring just hopeless even a number of Demon frees in the 3rd hard to fathom.

Umpires heavily influenced result, when their job is to go unnoticed.

Zero protection for Max!”

Channel 7 commentary & commentators pathetic!

The Why

Demons not up for the game! Why!

Why not move Pickett onto Butters, he was ineffective up forward, get Butters to take him to the ball, and Kossie has speed and can tackle!

Play wet weather football!

Pick a team for wet weather football!

Give Salem one week in the VFL to get some touch and match fitness before playing AFL!

Petty was missed. One of BBB, TMac, Joel Smith need to lift to fill the void.

Manage JVR carefully!

Final comments

Port played their best, umpires favoured them re scoreboard impact, and even though they deserved to win they were lucky to win!

Demons had very few contributors on the night, but nearly got home! 
We really need one of JVR, BbB, TMac, Joel Smith to lift and play FF. If Petty gets back and is fit, think he can hold down CHF!

Win next bl**dy week!

You're just blaming the umpires

No, Port deserved the win.

Melbourne had plenty of areas where they could have made the difference, a little bit more from 16-17 players for a start!

Umpires were terrible. Typically you expect umpires to favour home team, but hope they don’t impact result!

But it’s still up to the Demon players on the field and how they are coached!

In fact I’m really surprised we got within four points after only playing 20 minutes football, if you said rate each team, I’d give Melbourne 5/10 and Port 9/10, so believe we have a massive upside!

Edited May 20, 20232 yr by D4Life
Extra point

2 hours ago, The heart beats true said:

I have been very optimistic about this side. For me it’s not the losses now, it’s the trend. We have less than a 30% win rate against top 8 sides over the last 12 months (and we’ve played a lot of games against them, so there is good data). Losses are understandable, but that stat says we can’t currently compete with the best. As a result my optimism has turned into pragmatism. The numbers tell the truth.

This is a logical way of looking at things, however, I retain a bit of optimism. Port have now beaten us, Brisbane and the dogs and got flogged by Collingwood. They played in a prelim in 21 and would feel like they missed an opportunity to win the flag in 2020. They should probably be regarded as contenders.

 
I don't think a 4 point loss to a fellow contender after playing really poorly for a half shows that we are massively off the pace. If Fritsch had kicked that goal at the end we would've won and no-one would be suggesting we can't contend this year. Whether we win by 2 points or lose by 4 points in May doesn't determine how far we can go this season. Had they rolled us by 6 goals I'd be ringing the alarm bells but I don't come away from that match thinking Port are way better than us. 

I take your point about our poor record against other top 8 sides but I'm inclined to park last year's results. Last year was last year. We're a different side. I thought our key issue last year was fitness and ball movement and it seems like we've addressed both of those. This year our record against the top 8 is we got flogged by the lions (I don't count the comeback after the lights went out), we flogged the dogs (who are now looking pretty handy) and lost narrowly last night. That's not great, but it's not game over...yet.

The other thing that allows me to retain a bit of optimism for this year is (and perhaps this is wishful thinking) we seem to be playing the G really well. In 2021 and 2022 (and 2018 for that matter) we were terrific on the road and actually weren't as strong at the G it seemed. This year we've looked much better on the G than elsewhere with our two best results - against Footscray and Sydney - coming there. I'm hoping we're becoming like those Richmond premiership sides that were the gettable on the road but unbeatable on the G where it matters.

 
So I still reckon we're in the premiership hunt, but with games against Collingwood, Geelong, Brissy and the rest coming up, I guess we're about to find out!

2 hours ago, Superunknown said:

“I’ll take “everyone is a type A” for $1,000,000, Eddie.”

Are they though?

1 hour ago, The heart beats true said:

What? And get a fine, and put a target on us? He knows how the bigger game is played.

That worked well for us yesterday.

7 minutes ago, layzie said:

Are they though?

I reckon plenty on here were happier in the Neeld days. More to sook about.

59 minutes ago, Wadda We Sing said:

And im not disagreeing with any of that?

You said the free would never have been paid because it would have decided the outcome. Im simply saying thats not correct.

 

Understand, but if he got the 50 and kicked it and they didn’t respond, it would have won the game.

Anyway I understand your point.

Fox are trying to get Hunter and Viney suspended. Outside of Kath ❤️, they can all get [censored]. Even Garry.

Interestingly they mentioned the Jonas tackle on TMac may be scrutinised, yet the ump paid HTB. What a joke the maggots are. Cheats plain and simple.

Edited May 20, 20232 yr by Clintosaurus

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

It was also their job to pay other blatant frees too, not just umpire for the crowd.

How could a forearm to Max’s face in a marking attempt not be paid, or the hit to his head on the wing, or the hit to Tracc’s head, or Tom Mac being grabbed around the face by Jonas and then copping holding the ball, or the 15 metre throw in towards Port’s goal and straight to a Port player not be recalled, just as a few examples of disgraceful one sided umpiring.

It happened to the Bombers and Pies there as well recently with the only difference being their coaches mentioned it.

That said Port deserved to win.

I thought with the rain we were a bit top heavy as well.

That final throw in. Why was the umpire moving towards the Port goals as he threw the ball in. And moving at speed.