PREGAME: Rd 08 vs Gold Coast

[beelzebub 22,269]

17 minutes ago, BDA said:

I didn't watch the Casey game. Is BB's issue injury, form or both.

Think you'll find one is the cause of the other. Not mutually  independent. 

Same for Tommy

Occam's Razor

Edited May 1, 2023 by beelzebub
Context

[deejammin' 2,076]

10 minutes ago, Sydee said:

Serious question did you watch the Casey game ? Not sure how BB gets a recall on that performance 

Yeah I watched it. I didn’t think he was terrible, he led up and down the ground and did some good things. He also did some of the grunt work in the middle of packs without much individual success in a way that freed Smith, Jefferson, Melksham, TMac up. 

He’s not on fire, it’s certainly not the performance he’d want to put in to be assured of a place in the team, but I think if he played that same role in a way that took the first defender (Collins) and freed JVR, Max and Fritsch up in the way the other three were for Casey we’d look pretty good.
It’s also partly my own bias that I’d like to see the BBB, JVR, Max, Fritta combo as I think it’s the most dynamic and has the most different strengths while I really want to see Petty back with Lever and May. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s just Petty in forward for Schache, but I’m interested in seeing the Brown JVR combo in particular and thought BBB played a sacrificial role this weekend at Casey that could translate to the seniors. 
 

In terms of the Casey game, Melksham was excellent but he plays the Fritsch role and I don’t think you can have two of those, especially against GC’s somewhat mobile tall defense. J Smith was very lively but I think he needs some time to play a few games, especially given how much time he has spent back the last few seasons. Tommy looked more hit and miss to me than Brown, his work up the ground late in game was good, but early on he kept getting swamped and caught and not taking his marks. Brown was workmanlike in a way that brought the other forwards into it and took Box Hill’s best defender all day, didn’t set the world on fire but structurally was important and bullocked and worked hard all game. 

[Travy14 1,526]

15 hours ago, kev martin said:

More like, strapping/support, from wrist to just below the elbow.

He didn’t want to use his right, was marking with the left, and doing light training away from the main squad. 

doesn't sound like great prep does it.  Hopefully he is ok, poor fella as soon as he gets a chance

[Sydee 3,645]

48 minutes ago, BDA said:

I didn't watch the Casey game. Is BB's issue injury, form or both.

Hard to be definitive because if he is sore that would explain his form to some extent.

I really don't want to be critical of BB but at present he simply doesn't do enough to warrant senior selection.

He is not taking contested marks, he is not mobile enough to get separation from his defender to be dangerous on a lead and he offers next to nothing in terms of defensive pressure when the ball is in dispute or when the opposition defenders are transitioning out of D50.

I suspect at least some posters calling for his selection in the senior team have not bothered to watch the Casey games. 

[Sydee 3,645]

40 minutes ago, deejammin' said:

Yeah I watched it. I didn’t think he was terrible, he led up and down the ground and did some good things. He also did some of the grunt work in the middle of packs without much individual success in a way that freed Smith, Jefferson, Melksham, TMac up. 

He’s not on fire, it’s certainly not the performance he’d want to put in to be assured of a place in the team, but I think if he played that same role in a way that took the first defender (Collins) and freed JVR, Max and Fritsch up in the way the other three were for Casey we’d look pretty good.
It’s also partly my own bias that I’d like to see the BBB, JVR, Max, Fritta combo as I think it’s the most dynamic and has the most different strengths while I really want to see Petty back with Lever and May. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s just Petty in forward for Schache, but I’m interested in seeing the Brown JVR combo in particular and thought BBB played a sacrificial role this weekend at Casey that could translate to the seniors. 
 

In terms of the Casey game, Melksham was excellent but he plays the Fritsch role and I don’t think you can have two of those, especially against GC’s somewhat mobile tall defense. J Smith was very lively but I think he needs some time to play a few games, especially given how much time he has spent back the last few seasons. Tommy looked more hit and miss to me than Brown, his work up the ground late in game was good, but early on he kept getting swamped and caught and not taking his marks. Brown was workmanlike in a way that brought the other forwards into it and took Box Hill’s best defender all day, didn’t set the world on fire but structurally was important and bullocked and worked hard all game. 

Fair enough we all have differing opinions on performance / selection. By your own admission BB didn't actually do much to warrant selection other than being a decoy and occupying the focus of one of their key defenders. I thought their best defender was on TMac anyway but that's another discussion.

The BBB, JVR, Max, Fritta combo that you'd like to see lacks mobility to me. Opposition sides would be licking their lips when the ball hit the ground with that forward structure. I'm a huge believer that one of our main weaknesses is when our F50 pressure is down, and teams can quickly transition, and our defense doesn't have enough time to get set. That is when teams score easily against us. 

 

[deejammin' 2,076]

8 minutes ago, Sydee said:

Fair enough we all have differing opinions on performance / selection. By your own admission BB didn't actually do much to warrant selection other than being a decoy and occupying the focus of one of their key defenders. I thought their best defender was on TMac anyway but that's another discussion.

The BBB, JVR, Max, Fritta combo that you'd like to see lacks mobility to me. Opposition sides would be licking their lips when the ball hit the ground with that forward structure. I'm a huge believer that one of our main weaknesses is when our F50 pressure is down, and teams can quickly transition, and our defense doesn't have enough time to get set. That is when teams score easily against us. 

 

In case people aren’t aware you can watch the replay on the AFL app and site anytime, just search VFL replays, you can send the game as a link but sadly I can’t find a way to post the link here as that’s not a option available through my app. It’s not as enjoyable as the seniors one but some good moments, pretty rubbish commentary. 

Are you sure you watched it? It wasn’t his best game but watch 4.57 quarter 1 when Brown marks with clear separation on a lead and goals around the corner. There are many other examples but 1.24 quarter 4 is yet another example of Brown getting separation on a lead and hitting a target inside 50, those are the ones I remember off the top of my head, there’s plenty more, including Brown winning a good ruck contest in the 3rd quarter and kicking to Jefferson in the square (who sadly fumbles the mark).
I’m not one for hyperbole, I said it wasn’t his best game but decoy is a bit rich. He played the role of taking both James Blanck who I consider box hills best key defender and experienced at VFL level and having Grainger-Barass often triple teaming him when we didn’t move the ball quickly. You may think Grainger their best defender who was on TMac and I don’t think he’s bad, but Blanck is much stronger physically and better as a shutdown defender where Grainger is more an interceptor. 

I don’t think that forward-line will lack pressure as firstly the four won’t be on the ground at the same time often. Max and Ben would alternate allowing the forwardline to always have three of Chandler, Pickett, ANB, Spargo, Trac, Viney and the other mids who have pinch hit forward this year, plenty of pressure there, plus Fritsch’s pressure has generally been better this year.
 

Happy to agree to disagree but I think you are overly harsh on BBB’s game, I thought he played the role well and showed enough of each skill without having a stand out game. There’s also the question of how VFL form actually equates to AFL. The VFL tends to be a more contested, compressed game than AFL due to ground sizes and VFL game plans to limit AFL players influence. Mitch White absolutely excelled at VFL level but there’s no way he comes back into AFL level as the pace of the game would render him less effective than some of the more athletically gifted players who can struggle at VFL level. There’s many players like this.
 

You may be right, it’s possible Browny won’t come in this week but it’s also not as simple as needing dominant 5 goal VFL performances to come back in, playing a strong role at VFL level can be more important than a dominant glamorous performance. 

[Colm 1,483]

Petty will come in for Shack who’s injured and didn’t have a great game anyways. 
Petty will stay forward- we need to be pretty mobile against the Suns and Petty covers a lot of ground. Also he brings the ball to ground and when we have Kossie and Chandler crumbing that’s all he needs to do. 
I wonder if we might see a change in defence with McVee looking a bit off it last week and Pig carrying an injury. Disco or Howes might get a run. 
JJ to stay in the team- he deserves a run of games. 
Melkshake probably deserves to be sub but the Suns midfield is their strong point so I think Harmes will be the sub to give us more energy in the middle should we need it. He may also get a shutdown role. 

[Sydee 3,645]

8 minutes ago, deejammin' said:

In case people aren’t aware you can watch the replay on the AFL app and site anytime, just search VFL replays, you can send the game as a link but sadly I can’t find a way to post the link here as that’s not a option available through my app. It’s not as enjoyable as the seniors one but some good moments, pretty rubbish commentary. 

Are you sure you watched it? It wasn’t his best game but watch 4.57 quarter 1 when Brown marks with clear separation on a lead and goals around the corner. There are many other examples but 1.24 quarter 4 is yet another example of Brown getting separation on a lead and hitting a target inside 50, those are the ones I remember off the top of my head, there’s plenty more, including Brown winning a good ruck contest in the 3rd quarter and kicking to Jefferson in the square (who sadly fumbles the mark).
I’m not one for hyperbole, I said it wasn’t his best game but decoy is a bit rich. He played the role of taking both James Blanck who I consider box hills best key defender and experienced at VFL level and having Grainger-Barass often triple teaming him when we didn’t move the ball quickly. You may think Grainger their best defender who was on TMac and I don’t think he’s bad, but Blanck is much stronger physically and better as a shutdown defender where Grainger is more an interceptor. 

I don’t think that forward-line will lack pressure as firstly the four won’t be on the ground at the same time often. Max and Ben would alternate allowing the forwardline to always have three of Chandler, Pickett, ANB, Spargo, Trac, Viney and the other mids who have pinch hit forward this year, plenty of pressure there, plus Fritsch’s pressure has generally been better this year.
 

Happy to agree to disagree but I think you are overly harsh on BBB’s game, I thought he played the role well and showed enough of each skill without having a stand out game. There’s also the question of how VFL form actually equates to AFL. The VFL tends to be a more contested, compressed game than AFL due to ground sizes and VFL game plans to limit AFL players influence. Mitch White absolutely excelled at VFL level but there’s no way he comes back into AFL level as the pace of the game would render him less effective than some of the more athletically gifted players who can struggle at VFL level. There’s many players like this.
 

You may be right, it’s possible Browny won’t come in this week but it’s also not as simple as needing dominant 5 goal VFL performances to come back in, playing a strong role at VFL level can be more important than a dominant glamorous performance. 

Yes, I'm sure I watched it I actually try and watch all the Casey games. We obviously have a different view on what is needed in our F50 - that's ok I'm very happy to defer to our selection committee to make the right decisions. 

[Sydee 3,645]

2 minutes ago, Colm said:

Petty will come in for Shack who’s injured and didn’t have a great game anyways. 
Petty will stay forward- we need to be pretty mobile against the Suns and Petty covers a lot of ground. Also he brings the ball to ground and when we have Kossie and Chandler crumbing that’s all he needs to do. 
I wonder if we might see a change in defence with McVee looking a bit off it last week and Pig carrying an injury. Disco or Howes might get a run. 
JJ to stay in the team- he deserves a run of games. 
Melkshake probably deserves to be sub but the Suns midfield is their strong point so I think Harmes will be the sub to give us more energy in the middle should we need it. He may also get a shutdown role. 

I agree that Disco is close to being rewarded for sustained good performances. I'm personally not sold on Howes yet.

I actually really liked what I saw from Zane Duursma - didn't get a heap of possessions but for a 17yo kid he looks really really promising.

[Neil Crompton 4,817]

17 minutes ago, Sydee said:

Fair enough we all have differing opinions on performance / selection. By your own admission BB didn't actually do much to warrant selection other than being a decoy and occupying the focus of one of their key defenders. I thought their best defender was on TMac anyway but that's another discussion.

The BBB, JVR, Max, Fritta combo that you'd like to see lacks mobility to me. Opposition sides would be licking their lips when the ball hit the ground with that forward structure. I'm a huge believer that one of our main weaknesses is when our F50 pressure is down, and teams can quickly transition, and our defense doesn't have enough time to get set. That is when teams score easily against us. 

 

I think you are correct Sydee that mobility is extremely important in our thinking for the forward line. Which is why the club would be wrapt if a player like Schache was able to produce the goods for us - although possibly a big “if”.
My view is that because we don’t yet have a “Cameron” or a “Hawkins”, our game plan centres around mobility and bringing the ball to the ground for our mosquito fleet to do their work.  Our scoring this year (and there has been plenty of it) has been predominantly from non key forwards, which demonstrates this perfectly. 
I also think there is a very good reason why Joel Smith is being trained as a forward this year. I think he is being groomed for one of the key position forward roles as he fits the profile of the type of player required to match our forward set up requirements this year - mobile, can bring the ball to ground, and good forward half defensive skills and pressure.
Just my thoughts, but baring injury (fingers crossed), and with good Casey form, I think Joel could well be selected in the next 3-4 weeks as a key forward. 

[layzie 29,298]

I loved BBB's start to the season and still feel there will be a chance for him at some point but his weak points are deal breakers for us at the moment. He's not the best at getting it to ground and although he gives his all, his defensive chasing and second efforts are just not at the level to prevent easy exits. Whether that's injury related or not I don't know but we have more to think about in regards to our forward line than brilliant connection between mids and forwards and lacing BBB out on the chest. 

I want him in very much so, but I have to admit it's more a want than logical thinking. This doesn't mean he's done but as it stands I understand why he hasn't been picked. 

[Sydee 3,645]

12 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

I think you are correct Sydee that mobility is extremely important in our thinking for the forward line. Which is why the club would be wrapt if a player like Schache was able to produce the goods for us - although possibly a big “if”.
My view is that because we don’t yet have a “Cameron” or a “Hawkins”, our game plan centres around mobility and bringing the ball to the ground for our mosquito fleet to do their work.  Our scoring this year (and there has been plenty of it) has been predominantly from non key forwards, which demonstrates this perfectly. 
I also think there is a very good reason why Joel Smith is being trained as a forward this year. I think he is being groomed for one of the key position forward roles as he fits the profile of the type of player required to match our forward set up requirements this year - mobile, can bring the ball to ground, and good forward half defensive skills and pressure.
Just my thoughts, but baring injury (fingers crossed), and with good Casey form, I think Joel could well be selected in the next 3-4 weeks as a key forward. 

Agree that Joel is a chance if his form remains strong and he stays healthy. He is a bit frustrating because he certainly does have ability and "could" be quite dangerous as a forward if he can stay fit and focused. I thought his kicking for goal was surprisingly good last game also. Presumably he is also benefitting from Chocko's tuition in that space this season.

[Colm 1,483]

15 minutes ago, Sydee said:

I actually really liked what I saw from Zane Duursma - didn't get a heap of possessions but for a 17yo kid he looks really really promising.

After really wanting us to pick Hayden Young in 19 draft I have tried not to get too keen on a player before the draft. After all JT knows 1000 times more than I could ever hope to so I’m happy with whoever he picks. 
Having said that I’m throwing it out the window this year and jumping on the Duursma train real early. Thought he had an almost game the other day but looks very silky, moves well, good size already, athletic, looks like he likes a tackle. Plays the outside role that we don’t really have at the club. Only 17 so heaps of upside. Looks like he is going to be the player I thought Cerra was going to be at Carlton. 
He’s already been training with the club and now getting a run at Casey. 
 

[old dee 22,950]

12 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

That logic doesn't quite hold up, old dee.

Have you heard about the circle of parity? You can run through all 18 clubs by saying "A beat B, but B beat C, but C beat D" and so on until you get back to where you started.

The fact we didn't put Richmond away until late, whereas Gold Coast jumped them early, does not mean we're worse than Gold Coast.

I wasn't suggesting we are, I was meaning they beat Richmond, it was hard for us. On that basis I was suggesting that the sun's will not be the  push overs that a number on here were suggesting they would be.

[M_9 1,740]

I’d like Melksham in place of Schache. Petty for Hibbo or Schache if Hibbo not rested. Milkshake handy as a sub given his versatility.

[Rockets 1]

Is there anywhere to see Training times? Website hasn’t been updated for weeks.. thanks guys ✊🏻🔵🔴

[monoccular 16,289]

On 5/1/2023 at 5:47 AM, Wells 11 said:

GC 3 straight wins now. This isn’t the soft  kill  it looked like a few weeks ago… they’ll be primed to rest themselves against one of the best. 

WARNING: NO GAME IS A GIMMIE!  

12 hours ago, AzzKikA said:

Where's the "What they are saying in..." Thread this week? I'm sure their supporter would be buzzing this week.

 

11 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Do Gold Coast have supporters?

dee-tox  -  you may have noted that AzzKikA used the singular "supporter" not the plural

9 hours ago, Sydee said:

Hard to be definitive because if he is sore that would explain his form to some extent.

I really don't want to be critical of BB but at present he simply doesn't do enough to warrant senior selection.

He is not taking contested marks, he is not mobile enough to get separation from his defender to be dangerous on a lead and he offers next to nothing in terms of defensive pressure when the ball is in dispute or when the opposition defenders are transitioning out of D50.

I suspect at least some posters calling for his selection in the senior team have not bothered to watch the Casey games. 

Undoubtedly BB is well beyond his prime, and struggling physically, and may or may not get back to be a regular.  

But we should always remember that he ws our PREMIERSHIP FF!

8 hours ago, Colm said:

After really wanting us to pick Hayden Young in 19 draft I have tried not to get too keen on a player before the draft. After all JT knows 1000 times more than I could ever hope to so I’m happy with whoever he picks. 
Having said that I’m throwing it out the window this year and jumping on the Duursma train real early. Thought he had an almost game the other day but looks very silky, moves well, good size already, athletic, looks like he likes a tackle. Plays the outside role that we don’t really have at the club. Only 17 so heaps of upside. Looks like he is going to be the player I thought Cerra was going to be at Carlton. 
He’s already been training with the club and now getting a run at Casey. 
 

Tell me more about Duursma please.    Size, position, speed etc.  Thanks.

[AzzKikA 2,371]

3 minutes ago, monoccular said:

WARNING: NO GAME IS A GIMMIE!  

 

dee-tox  -  you may have noted that AzzKikA used the singular "supporter" not the plural

Glad someone noticed it!

[D4Life 2,307]

We’ve played 7 danger games this year, winning 5 losing 2!

Tigers came out hot against the Demons and had an extra four players umpiring for them! Looked ordinary in comparison last week, kicked badly for goal, Demons would have handled comfortably in that form.

Miller out hurts GC, Demons should control midfield and be too strong for GC but won’t be easy!

[Gawndy the Great 7,644]

Couldn’t find the best place to plant this but given this is the main thread in the lead up to game day though I’d share.

Hoiney (spelling?) from CD tonight on SEN mentioned our #1 PF scoring is a bit misleading on the quality of our footy. Good kicking is good footy I know, but I think the message is that we aren’t flying as the top 2 position might represent and that we come back a little on the ladder if we were afl avg in set shot accuracy.

 Similarly the Pies are abysmal  in the turnover scoring game. They didn’t really talk about our downside atm  but given there was nothing glaring is a good sign that we are just not in the best form - which you don’t want to be I. April / May. 

Edited May 2, 2023 by Gawndy the Great

[Deemania since 56 6,205]

On 5/1/2023 at 6:43 AM, #11-TonyAnderson said:

Happy if they rest themselves against us Wellsy😊A 50 point win will suffice for me.

Yes, that really seems like a fair assessment. Wellsy: Do you notice the primary similarities between the Honourable Greg Wells (No.11) and the up and coming fast learner - Chandler?

 

[Willmoy1947 3,808]

11 hours ago, Colm said:

Petty will come in for Shack who’s injured and didn’t have a great game anyways. 
Petty will stay forward- we need to be pretty mobile against the Suns and Petty covers a lot of ground. Also he brings the ball to ground and when we have Kossie and Chandler crumbing that’s all he needs to do. 
I wonder if we might see a change in defence with McVee looking a bit off it last week and Pig carrying an injury. Disco or Howes might get a run. 
JJ to stay in the team- he deserves a run of games. 
Melkshake probably deserves to be sub but the Suns midfield is their strong point so I think Harmes will be the sub to give us more energy in the middle should we need it. He may also get a shutdown role. 

Anderson.

[Willmoy1947 3,808]

Just while i'm talking i do think that another Club other than GC might be up and about a bit more this year and could end up vying for seven and eight along with TWSNBN and now Sydney and that CLUB is GWS. 

[58er 5,632]

On 5/1/2023 at 4:45 PM, Jaded No More said:

He is apparently only a couple of weeks away which gives him 2 games at Casey first. That would be about right I would think. They won’t let him waste his time at Casey for any longer unless he’s really in bad touch or struggling with fitness/pain. 

I was only saying NOT to bring Salo back "straight in" against what you posted Jaded you are thinking I don't want Salo till after say 3 or 4 games at Casey. 

Jaded You seem to have moved your goal posts  now and want what I really  posted.

You will recall the disaster last season with Salo and that's what a repeat of should be totally avoided. 

[cantstandyasam 700]

11 hours ago, Sydee said:

Agree that Joel is a chance if his form remains strong and he stays healthy. He is a bit frustrating because he certainly does have ability and "could" be quite dangerous as a forward if he can stay fit and focused. I thought his kicking for goal was surprisingly good last game also. Presumably he is also benefitting from Chocko's tuition in that space this season.

If he has sustained form, he'd be a great 3rd/4th forward or swingman down back or the ideal sub