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PODCAST: Rd 04 vs West Coast


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On 4/10/2023 at 3:32 AM, ElDiablo14 said:

Gents

Can we discuss who has had the most underwhelming start of the season?

I am starting to worry about Angus Brayshaw. Not sure if the issue is where he is playing or something else.

On the other hand JVR, McVee and JJ have been great additions to the team.

I think this is a little unfair.  He has certainly been crucial to the structure down back and constantly found himself in good positions.  His disposal still lets him down a bit, but he is hardly alone in that. 

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On 4/10/2023 at 8:53 AM, Travy14 said:

That game was a hard watch. But did what we needed and the overpower the Eagles.

I think Petty showed that although he was drafted as a forward, he has lost all forward craft.  He has no leading patterns and looks uncomfortable being in front in marking contests,  fine to swing fwd in games but I don't thing we can play him as a permanent forward.  Agree or should we persist with him?

I'm not sure why you'd change it when we are winning?  Give him more time to settle into the new role. 

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20 hours ago, MurDoc516 said:

What's underwhelming to you about his season so far?

Don't just say he's underwhelming and not provide something to actually critique. Per my comment in response to Travy14 about Petty, our D50 looks weirdly out of shape due to the rotation of Petty forward. I think Brayshaw is a victim of this as he's being asked to man a mid-sized or a tall key forward at times.

Aside from that, I think he offers a hard head and composure to our D50 which helps us lock the ball in our forward half.

I think that's probably the best explanation for why Gus hasn't looked 'glittering' so far. Most of the sides we've played have had good mid-sized forwards and with Petty not there and Hibbo not in the best shape Gus has had his hands full. We ideally want the back unit settled in these areas so Gus can read the play chopping off as he does and trying to keep his aerial battles to like sized opponents. 

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It’s still early days, but to my eyes, a few of our ‘second / third tier’ players have lifted there contributions and consistency by a notch or two this year. In particular, I’m thinking Sparrow, Rivers, Chandler, and when given the opportunity, JJ.  I’d love your comments on this observation please.  If this can be sustained, I reckon it could prove decisive come the latter rounds, and September.

Love the pods.  Keep up the great work guys!

Edited by Deeoldfart
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2 hours ago, Supreme_Demon said:

Who are the danger players at Essendon we need to be mindful of besides Luke Stringer?

My apologies, I meant Jake Stringer!

 

In response to @binmanregarding Jake Melksham. I think he has been serviceable as the "super sub" (23rd man) for the Demons. Particularly in the games against the Bulldogs and the Swans where he kicked goals.

 

I don't see a problem getting Jake Melksham to 100 games for the Melbourne Football Club. He must only be about 3 games off reaching that milestone? But let's face it, I will be surprised if he doesn't retire at the end of this season.

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8 minutes ago, Supreme_Demon said:

My apologies, I meant Jake Stringer!

 

In response to @binmanregarding Jake Melksham. I think he has been serviceable as the "super sub" (23rd man) for the Demons. Particularly in the games against the Bulldogs and the Swans where he kicked goals.

 

I don't see a problem getting Jake Melksham to 100 games for the Melbourne Football Club. He must only be about 3 games off reaching that milestone? But let's face it, I will be surprised if he doesn't retire at the end of this season.

I agree Melk has been ok in the role (but lets not carried away - in his one game as sub JJ had 8 possessions, albeit playing as a mid, and crucially three tackles. Melk has kicked a couple of nice goals as a sub in his three games, but only had 7 posessions in total, albeit in a defensive forward role - and two tackles).

And i don't mind Melk in the role -  though i would have been really disappointed if he was selected ahead of JJ this week given how well JJ played against the swans.

Personally, i think player should never be gifted a game - except in really rare circumstances, like getting a player to a big milestone when finals are out of play.

But that's not my question (ie is it ok to gift players games).

My question is whether an  AFL club, a professional org in the elite competition, gift games in this scenario (finals well in play, milestone is 100 games with the club, plenty of alternatives).

I guess to be more specific - would Goody do so?

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6 minutes ago, binman said:

I agree Melk has been ok in the role (but lets not carried away - in his one game as sub JJ had 8 possessions, albeit playing as a mid, and crucially three tackles. Melk has kicked a couple of nice goals as a sub in his three games, but only had 7 posessions in total, albeit in a defensive forward role - and two tackles).

And i don't mind Melk in the role -  though i would have been really disappointed if he was selected ahead of JJ this week given how well JJ played against the swans.

Personally, i think player should never be gifted a game - except in really rare circumstances, like getting a player to a big milestone when finals are out of play.

But that's not my question (ie is it ok to gift players games).

My question is whether an  AFL club, a professional org in the elite competition, gift games in this scenario (finals well in play, milestone is 100 games with the club, plenty of alternatives).

I guess to be more specific - would Goody do so?

I think the general consensus should be that of course no we don't reward games based on merrit, club standing and records etc. The only exception to the rule might have been Jones reaching game 300 but thats a pretty rare circumstance. 

Obviously Goodwin has a strong history with Melksham and trusts him to perform his role. He is one of six players over the age of 30 and provides leadership and an experienced head that is useful in a hot game of football. If a spare defender is dominating the game which happens often he can provide a run with role to diminish their effectiveness, he can free up other forwards like Bayley and Tmac to move up the ground if needed.

All that being said I too prefer someone like JJ. His immediate impact was substantial on Sunday. To me he's the perfect sub. Can play multiple roles where needed on any flank, wing and midfield. Comes into the game with fresh legs going hard with his energy in tackling and around the contest which was evident in the last quarter. He's also an excellent decision-maker and tidy with the ball in hand which becomes vital in late-game situations.

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Podcast will be LIVE tomorrow night (Wednesday) @ 8:30pm

Apologies for the late podcast. Originally was going to be tonight (Tuesday) due to the long weekend but I traveling to Broome right into a Category 4 Cyclone. I've course corrected and am heading back to the East Coast but won't get back in time for tonight.

So Wednesday @ 8:30pm it will be. Better late and safe than never.

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8 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Podcast will be LIVE tomorrow night (Wednesday) @ 8:30pm

Apologies for the late podcast. Originally was going to be tonight (Tuesday) due to the long weekend but I traveling to Broome right into a Category 4 Cyclone. I've course corrected and am heading back to the East Coast but won't get back in time for tonight.

So Wednesday @ 8:30pm it will be. Better late and safe than never.

All good Andy, stay safe!

There's been a number of players that have had really good starts to the season, nibbler, chin, Grundy building nicely, just to have a few. I was curious as to who you think will take the next step during the remaining games?

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image.png.c30a16fc454345ba3f76f283cb2395d8.png

image.png.8a42dc09167e12dba90329d50118ce0b.png

On the above metrics the Dees are vastly over performing in season 2023 compared with 2022

  • Points For = 32% increase
  • Average Winning Margin = 114% increase

These increases in our offensive strength may have impacted our stingy defence with a 24% increase in points against this year but it seems to be well worth it considering we're scoring over 100 points on average per game.

Does the panel think this can be attributed to the Dees taking more risks with faster ball movement and using the corridor? Can we sustain this offensive pressure throughout the season proper?

 

 

Edited by OhMyDees
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Great work guys --- keep it coming! Not MFC-related I know, but do you have any thoughts on Jeremy Cameron accidentally colliding with an umpire? It seems no harm was done to either, but potentially either the player or umpire could have been concussed. Is it just one of those things that happen? Or do players need to be more careful?

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Thanks guys as ever for the informative and entertaining podcasts (and written contributions).

Whilst Harrison Petty doesn't seem to be setting the world on fire as a forward, I do see the advantages he offers as both a competitive / combative beast in the forward line, and as the strongest and best back up ruck we have on the field at present.

So until Max returns, I would keep his in his current role.  He couldn't do the job from defence where he has his space to fill and opponent to account for.

But when Max returns, will Harry return to defence?   I guess a lot will depend on who is performing both forward and back when that momentous moment arrives.

Supplementary question to Casey watchers:    is Disco close to getting another run, and if so in whose place?  The injured Hibbo?

Regards

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21 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Another left field question. MFCs presence in the media seems to be almost non existent. Do you think this is deliberate or coincidental?

Nothing wrong with “swimming under the surface” if we keep winning games…

 

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51 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Another left field question. MFCs presence in the media seems to be almost non existent. Do you think this is deliberate or coincidental?

Rather not be in the news as it is generally so negative it will be something bad

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Sorry team but another question popped in the ol noggin. Given the Pies loss to the Lions in similarish circumstances (ie ruck issues) did we underplay the conditions of the GABBA in the final result ? I know it was mentioned but it felt like a lot of the rationale was more about Gawn getting injured.

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Question from me 

What do you make of the regular Jack Viney bagging on DL?

He plays in a scrappy part of the field, and is first touch in many contested sequences. It's hardly fair to expect him to compete with likes of Bowey for DE%

He had 7 x CLR  5 x I50 and 9 x SI against WCE (at 82%DE + 1 goal)

And 5 x CLR  6 x I50 and 4 x SI (all I50s resulting in goals) against SYD (at 58%DE)

I think he's thriving and playing some of his best footy.

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Out of interest do any of you guys have a handle on rotations while you're watching a game. I don't think I'd have a hope of tracking them. 

I've developed a fascination with the Stat of %Time On Ground. It gives a very interesting picture about how players are viewed internally, how they are managed etc. 

For instance Grundy is shouldering the ruck predominantly on his own while Gawn is out. He had a brilliant 22 disposals v Eagles to go with 33 Hitouts.  I hadn't thought about it but I would have figured he's getting up around 85-90% game time. What would you guys guess ?  It was actually the 3rd least of the whole team. Only 71%. Which means he was off the ground for a full quarter and a quarter of a quarter of the game. 

The only other players with less time were Jordan of course and then interestingly Sparrow with only 65%. The other interesting one was Trac with only 76% compared to Clarry with 87%. 14 players had more game time than him. The other one that's interesting is Viney who usually only plays around 76% compared to the other midfielders who are usually around 86%. My guess is his foot has to be managed. 

Rivers and Bowey before this year used to only play in the mid 60's. On the weekend it was 80% and 85%. 

 

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7 hours ago, Demonland said:

Podcast will be LIVE tomorrow night (Wednesday) @ 8:30pm

Apologies for the late podcast. Originally was going to be tonight (Tuesday) due to the long weekend but I traveling to Broome right into a Category 4 Cyclone. I've course corrected and am heading back to the East Coast but won't get back in time for tonight.

So Wednesday @ 8:30pm it will be. Better late and safe than never.

So not tonight Josephine?

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2 hours ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Sorry team but another question popped in the ol noggin. Given the Pies loss to the Lions in similarish circumstances (ie ruck issues) did we underplay the conditions of the GABBA in the final result ? I know it was mentioned but it felt like a lot of the rationale was more about Gawn getting injured.

The Lions won outnumbered contests and got the Pies out of position as their backs are so aggressive. The ruck issues were red herrings for both teams. The Lions look to be flat track bullies but beware when you meet them on a flat track.

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13 hours ago, binman said:

I have a (serious) question.

There seems to be a bit of chatter that the club is using the sub rule to get Melk to 100 games at the dees (though not so much after JJ got the nod against the eagles) - the inference being Melk has not been selected on merit.

I understand giving a fringe player one, maybe two games to get them to the 100 game milestone.

But would an AFL club really gift a player who has already achieved that milestone (and in melk's case also the 200-game milestone) 5-6 games to get them to 100 games for a new club (i assume the logic is by doing so it means any future father son/daughter rule is on the table)?

Do you need to post questions in the thread to get Andy to discuss them? Have you ever tried leaving a voicemail in a disguised voice?

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1 hour ago, Its Time for Another said:

Out of interest do any of you guys have a handle on rotations while you're watching a game. I don't think I'd have a hope of tracking them. 

I've developed a fascination with the Stat of %Time On Ground. It gives a very interesting picture about how players are viewed internally, how they are managed etc. 

For instance Grundy is shouldering the ruck predominantly on his own while Gawn is out. He had a brilliant 22 disposals v Eagles to go with 33 Hitouts.  I hadn't thought about it but I would have figured he's getting up around 85-90% game time. What would you guys guess ?  It was actually the 3rd least of the whole team. Only 71%. Which means he was off the ground for a full quarter and a quarter of a quarter of the game. 

The only other players with less time were Jordan of course and then interestingly Sparrow with only 65%. The other interesting one was Trac with only 76% compared to Clarry with 87%. 14 players had more game time than him. The other one that's interesting is Viney who usually only plays around 76% compared to the other midfielders who are usually around 86%. My guess is his foot has to be managed. 

Rivers and Bowey before this year used to only play in the mid 60's. On the weekend it was 80% and 85%. 

 

I don't have a hope of tracking everything but I did try to track JVR and Grundy in the Sydney game. There was a clear pattern in all four quarters to how those two interacted, positions on ground and when they went off for a rest. Sort of like:

Start of Quarter: Grundy in ruck, JVR forward.

10 min mark: JVR off for a rest, Grundy in ruck

15 min: JVR on and into ruck. Grundy off for a rest.

20 min: JVR goes forward, Grundy back in ruck

Very approximate but it followed the same pattern in terms of order and positions each quarter.

Against WCE though, this pattern definitely wasn't followed. Timing was different and so were positions, with others including TMac and Petty taking centre bounces.

Their time on grounds were a bit different each game too, Grundy dropped from 77% v Swans to 71% v WCE, while JVR was similar with 72% v 74%.

I wonder if the change in TOG for Grundy was a preservation thing? We had already won, have a long flight, and play a team with a lot of talls on a 6 day break.

 

 

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11 hours ago, binman said:

I agree Melk has been ok in the role (but lets not carried away - in his one game as sub JJ had 8 possessions, albeit playing as a mid, and crucially three tackles. Melk has kicked a couple of nice goals as a sub in his three games, but only had 7 posessions in total, albeit in a defensive forward role - and two tackles).

And i don't mind Melk in the role -  though i would have been really disappointed if he was selected ahead of JJ this week given how well JJ played against the swans.

Personally, i think player should never be gifted a game - except in really rare circumstances, like getting a player to a big milestone when finals are out of play.

But that's not my question (ie is it ok to gift players games).

My question is whether an  AFL club, a professional org in the elite competition, gift games in this scenario (finals well in play, milestone is 100 games with the club, plenty of alternatives).

I guess to be more specific - would Goody do so?

No and no

Edit - I think it is extremely fanciful from some to think this would be the case. Clubs may carry a servant of the club on the bench/sub for a handful of games to get them across the line for a milestone like 300 games (kind of what we did with Jones) but they're not going to gift games to a player if there is a better option sitting there and they don't fit the need. Basically, Melksham is getting games as sub because he has the skillset the coaches/Goodwin want in our sub at the moment.

Edited by Dr. Gonzo
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Personally, I think there is space to get someone to 100 games for father son rule, especially if they have a couple of kids.

With all of the equalisation measures, there are few areas that can be exploited as an advantage.

If you have two players pretty equal for the sub role, I think you'd be willing to roll the dice on a couple of sub games to get him there.

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    MAULED by Whispering Jack

    The writing was on the wall from the very first bounce of the football. The big men went up, Max Gawn more often than not, decisively won the ruck hit out and invariably a Brisbane Lions onballer either won the battle on the ground or halved the contest and they went at it repeatedly until they finally won out. Melbourne managed the first goal from Alex Neal-Bullen but after that the visitors shut out every area of Demon presence around the ground except in the ruck duels. It was a mauling.

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    Daniel Turner Hip Available
    Shane McAdam Hamstring 2-3 Weeks
    Marty Hore Thumb 2-3 Weeks
    Charlie Spargo Achilles 4 Weeks
    Jake Bowey Shoulder 5-6 Weeks
    Jake Melksham ACL 10-12 Weeks
    Joel Smith Suspension TBA

  • Player of the Year  


        PLAYER VOTES
    1 Christian Petracca 55
    2 Max Gawn 49
    3 Steven May 34
    4 Alex Neal-Bullen 27
    5 Jack Viney 24
    6 Clayton Oliver 22
    7 Bayley Fritsch 19
    8 Judd McVee 15
    9 Christian Salem 12
    10 Blake Howes 11

        FULL TABLE
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