DO NOT TRADE PETTY. 

Petty is one of the few players on our list that can take a contested pack mark up forward. With our "long bomb" game plan, Petty is essentially untradeable, unless the Crows send Fogarty or Thilthorpe our way, along with pick 10. 

25 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

If we got creative, 10, 20 and McAdam for Petty could be a great investment for the future. Especially if we got a stop-gap player in the meantime.. 

Supporters always fear the worst and get super emotional over these sorts of deals. 

But what it'd allow us to do as far as move up the draft again and/or take on a Haynes contract with GWS first pick or something of the like. (the possibilities are many). 

I don't mind it. 

In my mind, we've got to give something to get something and to move forward. I rate Petty really highly. But not more than a gold rejig of our list in general. And sometimes these decisions need to be made in order to stay there abouts over multiple campaigns. 

And of we want to see sustained success, these are the kind of list management decisions that are needed to be made. Hard one. But if what is reported is true, that's a seriously good offer for one player. 

I'd do it for sure. 

So, we trade Petty for a medium forward who is 28, after Petty proved to be our best option forward in the back end of 2023. We have for an aging McAdam a non-existent KPF structure and we cough up a bright young prospect for McAdam, a regular SANFL player.

 

Right now, we have had two premiership players walk out the door for very little. We have lost Hibberd to retirement. Another premiership player. If we are in the window, like we think we are, you can't lose that much depth and top up with draft picks, who are unlikely to impact AFL for 3-4 years. We have Gawn and May for 2 years. We don't have multiple campaigns left. We bombed the last two. 

I trust our recruiting and trade team, as they have come good every year, but as always mid trade period, we look to be having a fire sale, before we bring in a flurry of talent. My issue is though, the last few seasons we have gone with some downgrades. Schache and Dunstan are two that come to mind. If we are serious about challenging next year, we need something in the midfield and a KPF -trading Petty is fine, if you have that KPF lined up - which we DO NOT! Not even close. Nothing in the market and according to Goody it's not a priority. He says we have that already in Petty. Well, if he goes for picks, then we are in real strife 

44 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

If we got creative, 10, 20 and McAdam for Petty could be a great investment for the future. Especially if we got a stop-gap player in the meantime.. 

Supporters always fear the worst and get super emotional over these sorts of deals. 

But what it'd allow us to do as far as move up the draft again and/or take on a Haynes contract with GWS first pick or something of the like. (the possibilities are many). 

I don't mind it. 

In my mind, we've got to give something to get something and to move forward. I rate Petty really highly. But not more than a gold rejig of our list in general. And sometimes these decisions need to be made in order to stay there abouts over multiple campaigns. 

And of we want to see sustained success, these are the kind of list management decisions that are needed to be made. Hard one. But if what is reported is true, that's a seriously good offer for one player. 

I'd do it for sure. 

Trading out our midfield over supply with Oliver is a rejig. Or Salem. Or Gus. (Or Grundy, JJ and Harmes for that matter)

I don’t see how removing a 23 year old swing-man really rejigs things when we are crying out for prime age talls and no chance of adding a good one this year and no guarantee of adding a good one in future years.

Plus we’re already looking at 2 first round picks and a chance to add a 3rd as is.

In 2 years time when there’s no (or practically no) May and Gawn we’ll have Lever and JVR and what? An extra pick 10 and 20 when we already had 6 and 14?

Rejig is not justification for this. The only justification is a belief this is Petty’s maximum value and absolute belief we’ve got a prime aged key tall on the hook next year. 

And even that’s flimsy because you’re looking at increasing the talent of a team led by mystery tall X, Rivers, Sparrow, Pickett, JVR and pick 7.

Rather than trying to win now with Petracca, Oliver, Gawn, Viney, May etc.

53 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

Good idea Jimmy, we could trade away Trac as well for NM picks to really reset ourselves with a bunch of kids who may or may not succeed. 

Im being facetious of course but in my view you don’t trade away really good players to punt on draft kids. That doesn’t improve you.

IMO Petty is untradable this year unless there is some really pressing family reason for him to go interstate. 

 

42 minutes ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

So, we trade Petty for a medium forward who is 28, after Petty proved to be our best option forward in the back end of 2023. We have for an aging McAdam a non-existent KPF structure and we cough up a bright young prospect for McAdam, a regular SANFL player.

 

Right now, we have had two premiership players walk out the door for very little. We have lost Hibberd to retirement. Another premiership player. If we are in the window, like we think we are, you can't lose that much depth and top up with draft picks, who are unlikely to impact AFL for 3-4 years. We have Gawn and May for 2 years. We don't have multiple campaigns left. We bombed the last two. 

I trust our recruiting and trade team, as they have come good every year, but as always mid trade period, we look to be having a fire sale, before we bring in a flurry of talent. My issue is though, the last few seasons we have gone with some downgrades. Schache and Dunstan are two that come to mind. If we are serious about challenging next year, we need something in the midfield and a KPF -trading Petty is fine, if you have that KPF lined up - which we DO NOT! Not even close. Nothing in the market and according to Goody it's not a priority. He says we have that already in Petty. Well, if he goes for picks, then we are in real strife 

 

16 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Trading out our midfield over supply with Oliver is a rejig. Or Salem. Or Gus. (Or Grundy, JJ and Harmes for that matter)

I don’t see how removing a 23 year old swing-man really rejigs things when we are crying out for prime age talls and no chance of adding a good one this year and no guarantee of adding a good one in future years.

Plus we’re already looking at 2 first round picks and a chance to add a 3rd as is.

In 2 years time when there’s no (or practically no) May and Gawn we’ll have Lever and JVR and what? An extra pick 10 and 20 when we already had 6 and 14?

Rejig is not justification for this. The only justification is a belief this is Petty’s maximum value and absolute belief we’ve got a prime aged key tall on the hook next year. 

And even that’s flimsy because you’re looking at increasing the talent of a team led by mystery tall X, Rivers, Sparrow, Pickett, JVR and pick 7.

Rather than trying to win now with Petracca, Oliver, Gawn, Viney, May etc.

All of your responses are exactly what I'd expect. You can't SEE how losing Petty would result in a net positive over time. 

But that's the game. What kind of a club do you want to be? All in on chips now to try and nab another flag next year? 

Or increase your chances (depending on how we replace Petty, but most definitely with high end talent) for future years? And what does that look like? 

Look. When I read posters' responses to these types of scenarios, it's alwayyssss the same. 

Think about Frawley leaving.. The vast majority wanted him to stay. Precisely for the same reason. Nobody could see what the future would be like. It's the exact same scenario. Nobody knows what Petty's replacement could be. Nobody knows what we could do with the hand of picks we'd receive. Only those in charge. 

Given our track record with picks and trades, why is there not the same confidence that  we'd make the right call. 

If we had one or two down years in order to gain another 5-7 up, would supporters be upset? 

You have to take a chance. You have to be forward thinking. 

All I can say is thank god emotional supporters don't run list management. We'd hold everybody until they're cooked with nfi of what to do about the future due to fear of 'getting it wrong'. 

Lord. 

Edited October 10, 20231 yr by JimmyGadson

54 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

Good idea Jimmy, we could trade away Trac as well for NM picks to really reset ourselves with a bunch of kids who may or may not succeed. 

Im being facetious of course but in my view you don’t trade away really good players to punt on draft kids. That doesn’t improve you.

IMO Petty is untradable this year unless there is some really pressing family reason for him to go interstate. 

Jimmy is obsessed with untried kids. This is what his posts consistently come back to.

Everyone else gets 'emotional' over the AFL quality players we have (I'd argue mere AFL quality is underselling Petty), meanwhile, Jimmy makes the hard calls and speculates on 18 year olds. It's pretty easy from his cheap seats.

Edited October 10, 20231 yr by Binmans PA

1 hour ago, Dee tention said:

Petty to Crows rumoured for 10, 20 and McAdam. 

If Petty is keen;

I would ask for 10, Fogarty or Tilthorpe and McAdam 

Adelaide would receive Petty and a 2nd round pick from the Dees.

There's no way i'd take that deal unless we know something about Petty's injury likely to be cronic / recurring or worse. 

No Fogarty, no Petty.  Big question marks over T-Mac and BB.  A developing rookie in JVR.  No-show Schache and an unkown in Fullarton. 

Good luck with that scenario in 24 😬

12 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

Jimmy is obsessed with untried kids. This is what his posts consistently come back to.

Everyone else gets 'emotional' over the AFL quality players we have (I'd argue mere AFL quality is underselling Petty), meanwhile, Jimmy makes the hard calls and speculates on 18 year olds. It's pretty easy from his cheap seats.

I'm just not short-sighted and obsessive with our current list, like you and so many others. 

My god, if someone could be bothered, I'd love to see which posters bemoaned Frawley leaving, Watts leaving, the inclusion of Melksham etc etc. It would be hilarious. So many. 

I'm keen on becoming a club that builds its profile and supporter base by creating sustained success. How do you think that occurs, ol' mate PA? 

I'll be clear again. Nobody knows the machinations or players available for trade. Why do you think I'm obsessed with unders talent alone? It's a clearly a mixture of both? And when you give up something, that opens avenues to so many possibilities. You and your merry followers refuse to see. 

Again. Why don't you just stick to telling us how bullet proof our game plan is come finals time? 

I'd love to hear it again. 

 

 

If we think Petty was the player who might have made the difference in two tight finals for next year at least he is untradeable

18 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Given our track record with picks and trades, why is there not the same confidence that  we'd make the right call. 

If we had one or two down years in order to gain another 5-7 up, would supporters be upset? 

You have to take a chance. You have to be forward thinking. 

All I can say is thank god emotional supporters don't run list management. We'd hold everybody until they're cooked with nfi of what to do about the future due to fear of 'getting it wrong'. 

Did you really just compare 26 year old Frawley for pick 3 when we’re on the bottom of the ladder with 23 year old Petty for pick 10ish (if available) in our window? That’s nonsensical.

JT has a great record. He’s not perfect. Weideman, Laurie, probably Jefferson.

I have no issue with going backwards to go forwards.

I have an issue with going backwards when you’re really close to winning it all to go forwards in a few years time when the elite core we’ve got now is either done or pushing 30.

You’re pushing for change for changes sake. There’s no logic in that.

If you think Petty for pick 10 is an amazing deal that won’t be there in 12-24 months and Nate Caddy or whoever JT gets is the answer then I’ll hear it. But given talls are hit or miss and generally take 3-4 years to impact if you’re lucky that’s a huge risk.

As I said, I’d be much more willing to listen to a midfielder out to freshen the midfield mix given our oversupply of one type and likelihood of finding reinforcements. 

21 hours ago, Roy Boy said:

Not a rumour, but would you look at Ginnivan?

With Schultz coming into Pies, could be offloaded.

I think he is a dangerous player, a bit divisive, but…..

I wouldn’t object if price was right.

To my eye, he looks unavailable - he has cult status at the Filth, already - but also, I think he needs far more discipline in his gameplay and teamplay that perhaps, possibly, against the odds, the MFC coaching team may be able to provide, moulding him into a true, team-based forward asset.  

21 hours ago, Roy Boy said:

Not a rumour, but would you look at Ginnivan?

With Schultz coming into Pies, could be offloaded.

I think he is a dangerous player, a bit divisive, but…..

I wouldn’t object if price was right.

Interesting suggestion @Roy Boy. For whatever reason, posters on this thread seem to be ducking your question.

22 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

I'm just not short-sighted and obsessive with our current list, like you and so many others. 

My god, if someone could be bothered, I'd love to see which posters bemoaned Frawley leaving, Watts leaving, the inclusion of Melksham etc etc. It would be hilarious. So many. 

I'm keen on becoming a club that builds its profile and supporter base by creating sustained success. How do you think that occurs, ol' mate PA? 

I'll be clear again. Nobody knows the machinations or players available for trade. Why do you think I'm obsessed with unders talent alone? It's a clearly a mixture of both? And when you give up something, that opens avenues to so many possibilities. You and your merry followers refuse to see. 

Again. Why don't you just stick to telling us how bullet proof our game plan is come finals time? 

I'd love to hear it again. 

 

 

I was fine with Watts and Frawley leaving. Less so on Hogan, but happy to get May in return.

I like players that are B+-A like Petty, that can help us win a premiership next year versus a speculative pick 10 or pick 15 in a shallow draft.

Now, I know you think it's a super draft, but we hear this every year and it's rarely true.

And FWIW, I'm quite happy to trade players and I'm quite happy for us to be aggressive in trading as high as possible if we think someone like Reid is worth it, I'd even trade JVR for Reid (attention @Dwight Schrute), but Petty is a proven key back with a strong (seeming) ability to play a vital key forward role for us next year and into the future. You don't trade players like that. And whilst I was really impressed with JVRs season, Petty's marking ability from day dot makes him a far superior player to JVR IMO.

Edited October 11, 20231 yr by Binmans PA

21 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Did you really just compare 26 year old Frawley for pick 3 when we’re on the bottom of the ladder with 23 year old Petty for pick 10ish (if available) in our window? That’s nonsensical.

JT has a great record. He’s not perfect. Weideman, Laurie, probably Jefferson.

I have no issue with going backwards to go forwards.

I have an issue with going backwards when you’re really close to winning it all to go forwards in a few years time when the elite core we’ve got now is either done or pushing 30.

You’re pushing for change for changes sake. There’s no logic in that.

If you think Petty for pick 10 is an amazing deal that won’t be there in 12-24 months and Nate Caddy or whoever JT gets is the answer then I’ll hear it. But given talls are hit or miss and generally take 3-4 years to impact if you’re lucky that’s a huge risk.

As I said, I’d be much more willing to listen to a midfielder out to freshen the midfield mix given our oversupply of one type and likelihood of finding reinforcements. 

No, I compared supporters being fearful of the same result. Because they can't see a result! Fear of the unknown. Same story every year. 

Al of those names you listed were outside the top 7? Should I also put forward the names of Petty, Rivers, Bowey or JVR to even it out?. 

There's risk everywhere. Doesn't matter where you look. Just depends on where you WANT to look. 

Edited October 11, 20231 yr by JimmyGadson

26 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Did you really just compare 26 year old Frawley for pick 3 when we’re on the bottom of the ladder with 23 year old Petty for pick 10ish (if available) in our window? That’s nonsensical.

JT has a great record. He’s not perfect. Weideman, Laurie, probably Jefferson.

I have no issue with going backwards to go forwards.

I have an issue with going backwards when you’re really close to winning it all to go forwards in a few years time when the elite core we’ve got now is either done or pushing 30.

You’re pushing for change for changes sake. There’s no logic in that.

If you think Petty for pick 10 is an amazing deal that won’t be there in 12-24 months and Nate Caddy or whoever JT gets is the answer then I’ll hear it. But given talls are hit or miss and generally take 3-4 years to impact if you’re lucky that’s a huge risk.

As I said, I’d be much more willing to listen to a midfielder out to freshen the midfield mix given our oversupply of one type and likelihood of finding reinforcements. 

Agree, Petty plays those finals and we would have been playing off in a GF.

And we are every chance to get pick 11 as it is.  Can't trade petty unless we get a good Key fwd in from somewhere.

Petty will play fwd in 2024, then take over the May spot in 2025 after we land one of the Free agent key forwards available next yr.

He is vital to our future, unless he is desperate to get home, we keep.

22 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

I was fine with Watts and Frawley leaving. Less so on Hogan, but happy to get May in return.

I like players that are B+-A like Petty, that can help us win a premiership next year versus a speculative pick 10 or pick 15 in a shallow draft.

Now, I know you think it's a super draft, but we hear this every year and it's rarely true.

And FWIW, I'm quite happy to trade players and I'm quite happy for us to be aggressive in trading as high as possible if we think someone like Reid is worth it, I'd even trade JVR for Reid (attention @Dwight Schrute), but Petty is a proven key back with a strong (seeming) ability to play a vital key forward role for us next year and into the future. You don't trade players like that. And whilst I was really impressed with JVRs season, Petty's marking ability from day dot makes him a far superior player to JVR IMO.

Mate. 

This is getting ridiculous. 

Petty was drafted at 37 in a draft. You would have said how speculative that pick was back then. 

The top 10 this year is a bumper crop, therefore experts declared it a super draft. Idgaf if you don't think it is. There's super talent there within that top 10.

Also, you're comparing Petty to a pick 10-15. Which is [censored] ridiculous given we'd clearly be using those picks to move up or trade for a player. Why so short-sighted. Every. Single. Time. 

Think forwaddddd. 

Did you say the same thing going into the draft where we managed to move up to pick up Jackson, Pickett and Rivers? 

Or Oliver at 4?

Think for a sweet minute my son. 

Edited October 11, 20231 yr by JimmyGadson

3 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Mate. 

This is getting ridiculous. 

Petty was drafted at 37 in a draft. You would have said how speculative that pick was back then. 

But you're saying that within the tip 20 this year. 

The top 10 this year is a bumper crop, therefore experts declared it a super draft. Idgaf if you don't think it is. There's super talent there within that top 10.

Also, you're comparing Petty to a pick 10-15. Which is [censored] ridiculous given we'd clearly be using those picks to move up or trade for a player. Why so short-sighted. Every. Single. Time. 

Think forwaddddd. 

Did you say the same thing going into the draft where we managed to move up to pick up Jackson, Pickett and Rivers? 

Or Oliver at 4?

Think for a sweet minute my son. 

I'm fine with moving up the order, son, but there's no guarantees that you can. See the Butters draft and last year with Humphries.

So you'd have us trade out Petty in the hope we could move up the draft order, when there's a a reasonable chance we can't.

So we've given up our best marking forward and have to hope pick 10 is a winner, but they won't be taking contested marks next year.

Glad you're not in charge of recruiting or list management. 

18 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Mate. 

This is getting ridiculous. 

I reckon your good for the forum Jimmy as you come from left field as does DeeSpencer.  I don't agree with you on this because I think Petty is a very important structural part of our team and that part is very hard to replace.  Not only that but we are short of that structural part. 

I'm in agreement with you that we don't need to throw the house at getting a KPF but only if we've got Petty on the list. I can't see us improving much in the next two years without Petty or a good immediate replacement who would probably cost the same - if they were available - but they're not.

You say you want sustained long term success and in my view this is what we've had over 3 years.  Never out of the top 4 in those three years and we've won a flag.  We don't need to gamble the house by trading Petty.  We've already got two picks in the top 20 and that will add spice to what we've got.

In my view you're way off the mark in wanting to trade Petty.  You'd have a much stronger argument if it was an area we had an abundance in. 

 

 

Not the best comparison, but we wouldn't have let Weideman go if we didn't have Schache to replace him. Same for Petty, no way he leaves for a couple of draft picks if there's no one to replace him.

 

McAdam already wants to come to us, there's no sense tying him to any Petty interest.

9 minutes ago, Slartibartfast said:

I reckon your good for the forum Jimmy as you come from left field as does DeeSpencer.  I don't agree with you on this because I think Petty is a very important structural part of our team and that part is very hard to replace.  Not only that but we are short of that structural part. 

I'm in agreement with you that we don't need to throw the house at getting a KPF but only if we've got Petty on the list. I can't see us improving much in the next two years without Petty or a good immediate replacement who would probably cost the same - if they were available - but they're not.

You say you want sustained long term success and in my view this is what we've had over 3 years.  Never out of the top 4 in those three years and we've won a flag.  We don't need to gamble the house by trading Petty.  We've already got two picks in the top 20 and that will add spice to what we've got.

In my view you're way off the mark in wanting to trade Petty.  You'd have a much stronger argument if it was an area we had an abundance in. 

 

 

Appreciate your post. 

But to be clear, it's not that I *want to trade Petty. 

But if we're being offered pick 10, 20 and McAdam, I think it's most definitely worth considering given what we could turn that into over the next few years. 

That's all. 

I'm just not in the 'keep Petty at all costs' camp. I think that's silly. 

Slowly getting the hang of trade-time-list-manager-code:

 

“I don’t want to go into the specifics” = we know less than the public know 

 

“We haven’t spoken to any other clubs about him” = lots of cryptic texts though, often with an overuse of the word ‘mate’ to cleverly disguise the fact I hate all other list managers

 

“He’s a required player” = problem child trying to escape, asked the fitness guys to give him a torturing off-season plan to teach him a lesson

 

“Contracted/not going anywhere” = we’re going to make you pay through the nose for him

 

“We’ll sit down with his manager” = player has cracked the sads and isn’t responding to our calls/text messages and has left the team WhatsApp chat

 

“We think he has a strong future ahead of him” - bloke is a jet and we can’t believe those muppets gave him to us for peanuts

 

“Happy for him to explore his options” = happily take a future 9th round pick for him  

 

“We’ve got a strong draft hand” = I’ve done my job, don’t f*#% it up recruitment team 

 

“We’ll sit down with Essendon over the next week and have some sensible conversations” - Dodoro is the worst bloke I’ve ever met and this deal will not get done

Edited October 11, 20231 yr by The Jackson FIX

Sydney now have the Roos assistance pick for next year, will be the end of the first round.  Can we somehow get that for Grundy, might have to send a pick back in the deal?

Edited October 11, 20231 yr by Travy14

1 hour ago, JimmyGadson said:

I'm just not short-sighted and obsessive with our current list, like you and so many others. 

My god, if someone could be bothered, I'd love to see which posters bemoaned Frawley leaving, Watts leaving, the inclusion of Melksham etc etc. It would be hilarious. So many. 

I'm keen on becoming a club that builds its profile and supporter base by creating sustained success. How do you think that occurs, ol' mate PA? 

I'll be clear again. Nobody knows the machinations or players available for trade. Why do you think I'm obsessed with unders talent alone? It's a clearly a mixture of both? And when you give up something, that opens avenues to so many possibilities. You and your merry followers refuse to see. 

Again. Why don't you just stick to telling us how bullet proof our game plan is come finals time? 

I'd love to hear it again. 

 

 

@Gator was pretty cut up about Watts leaving if I can recall correctly. 

29 minutes ago, Travy14 said:

Sydney now have the Roos assistance pick for next year, will be the end of the first round.  Can we somehow get that for Grundy, might have to send a pick back in the deal?

Given they've just traded out 25, they either need to trade something else in or we give back to get that.

Don't think either we or Collingwood will be particularly pleased with them, though.

1 hour ago, Binmans PA said:

I'm fine with moving up the order, son, but there's no guarantees that you can. See the Butters draft and last year with Humphries.

So you'd have us trade out Petty in the hope we could move up the draft order, when there's a a reasonable chance we can't.

So we've given up our best marking forward and have to hope pick 10 is a winner, but they won't be taking contested marks next year.

Glad you're not in charge of recruiting or list management. 

No no. 

I'm glad you're not in charge. 

All you've done is outline exactly what the Demonland one-eyed supporter would do. 

Be too afraid to make decisions based on on fear of future outcomes. 

It's ridiculous you say 'there's no guarantees you can't move up the order' with the draft hand we'd get for a trade like Petty but completely brush over the fact that there's also no guarantee he'll get his body right for a full year? Or there's no guarantee that his form will continue in an upward trajectory... Or any other list management risk?! 

Does anyone notice this? Lol. 

Nah. Because we love Melbourne players and Melbourne payers only and all else is riskkkkkk so shut upppp. 

Edited October 11, 20231 yr by JimmyGadson