5 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Obviously trade period still has some time to go but I'm not sure we're going to see improvement next year as far as ladder position or finals run goes if Fullerton and McAdam are our only trades and 6 and 11 our two picks for the draft. 

We're not going to get further improvement out of our core as they're in the prime as is. Gawn and May are past their prime so it's more likely that they'll decline. 

Of course we'll see some natural improvement from our younger brigade but none of them are prime movers. Rivers and McVee had great years but are don't and won't impact games like Trac and Oliver. And teams around us like Carlton and Sydney have a greater abundance of young prime movers who will naturally improve which will see those sides become even stronger. I think JVR plays a supporting role and I don't think he's ever going to tear games apart. He's an undersized key forward. 

Oliver is no guarantee to even play at this stage and I thinks it's naive to suggest we'll be going through a season without any injuries to key players. It happens to every side every year. 

So there's some natural concern here for not changing things up enough if this is how we're looking for next year, atm we're looking very same same. 

My hope is we can move up the draft and nab one of Reid, McKertcher, Sanders or Duursma. I think those three players will impact in their first year but also create hype and excitement. 

Still time, fingers crossed we make some changes. 

 

Inclined to agree with this. 

Put another way - it's not silly to suggest that Mcvee at least, if not JVR, will have dips after outstanding first seasons (in effect for JVR). Rivers should theoretically continue to improve but it's hard to tell where the ceiling is. That goes for Bowey, Sparrow too but you're right - some middling improvement out of that tier is probably not going to be the difference.

I had hoped for a real career year from Gus in the middle and think he tracked into great form this year - but now there are some doubts there as well (regardless of what Edmund said). 

Significant doubts on Oliver for obvious reasons and there will of course come a time when Gawn, May or even Trac start to dip after being up so long. 

We'll get consistent output from the likes of Lever, Kozzie and ANB in that next rung. Each are a difference maker say 1 in every 4 games, and we need that to rise to 2/4 or 2/3. 

There is of course scope for players like Turner, Laurie, AMW, Howes or our draftees to come in and do what Mcvee did. But no guarantee and you're lucky if you get one newbie a year playing to that level. I have a strange amount of faith in AMW and really think he's developing well (tbh, with a higher ceiling than Kade), but McAdam probably prevents him from breaking into the team this year. 

I think Woewodin has real scope but not sure he's a top liner starting mid. 

Certainly feels to me that the FD are just banking on the same squad (and on scoring shots, they'd be right) and can only foresee us getting it done the way we did in 21. 

But our depth is thin - it wasn't in 21. Our structures are aged - they weren't in 21. And our key position players are aged/ageing - they weren't in 21. 

22 was such a wasted year in more ways than one. Went all in on B2B and barely played a youngster all year, even when we had the stars running round on broken legs. 

27 minutes ago, djr said:

No. Melb has only traded players who they don't mind moving on. They have not lost anyone significant who they preferred to keep. Maybe Jackson. I believe the medium/long term strategy here is for the club to free up cap space in order to target the likes of Sean Darcy, Todd Marshall, JUH and maybe Ben King in 2024.

I was more meaning targeting players like Petty, Kossie, Jackson, JVR, Rivers, Chandler, Brayshaw, etc. This puts unnecessary pressure/distraction on the player during the season and club (to lock them into long term deals, as 2 years remaining seems gettable). 

Would you put in the effort to sound out a content contracted Essendon player knowing you have to deal with Dodori?

30 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Inclined to agree with this. 

Put another way - it's not silly to suggest that Mcvee at least, if not JVR, will have dips after outstanding first seasons (in effect for JVR). Rivers should theoretically continue to improve but it's hard to tell where the ceiling is. That goes for Bowey, Sparrow too but you're right - some middling improvement out of that tier is probably not going to be the difference.

I had hoped for a real career year from Gus in the middle and think he tracked into great form this year - but now there are some doubts there as well (regardless of what Edmund said). 

Significant doubts on Oliver for obvious reasons and there will of course come a time when Gawn, May or even Trac start to dip after being up so long. 

We'll get consistent output from the likes of Lever, Kozzie and ANB in that next rung. Each are a difference maker say 1 in every 4 games, and we need that to rise to 2/4 or 2/3. 

There is of course scope for players like Turner, Laurie, AMW, Howes or our draftees to come in and do what Mcvee did. But no guarantee and you're lucky if you get one newbie a year playing to that level. I have a strange amount of faith in AMW and really think he's developing well (tbh, with a higher ceiling than Kade), but McAdam probably prevents him from breaking into the team this year. 

I think Woewodin has real scope but not sure he's a top liner starting mid. 

Certainly feels to me that the FD are just banking on the same squad (and on scoring shots, they'd be right) and can only foresee us getting it done the way we did in 21. 

But our depth is thin - it wasn't in 21. Our structures are aged - they weren't in 21. And our key position players are aged/ageing - they weren't in 21. 

22 was such a wasted year in more ways than one. Went all in on B2B and barely played a youngster all year, even when we had the stars running round on broken legs. 

Spot on.

I think one of the biggest concerns through this trade period is not being able to address our midfield depth at all. It's very thin on paper.

We've just moved on Jordon and Harmes who were both the 23rd and 24th player that were ready to step in when either a Oliver, Brayshaw or Viney had to miss games. Even Luke Dunstan retiring leaves us further lacking in this department. 

Right now, the next best available option is Woewodin and that's it. Brayshaw is one hit away from potential retirement and Viney will be 30 next year. Then there is the obvious concerns with Oliver as well. 

I don't ever see Sparrow ever being a top line midfielder and I think at best he's just an honest battler who's happy to fill in gaps when Petracca and the likes need a breather.

Was hoping we'd go after a mature age ruck to at least just have in the background. If Gawn goes down then it's left to Fullarton who's not even a genuine ruckman but more a forward, and then a 19 year old Will Varrell. 

 

 

 

Emphatic nature, winning trade period - Ralphy plz. The narrative around the Pies is ridiculous.

15 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I don't ever see Sparrow ever being a top line midfielder and I think at best he's just an honest battler who's happy to fill in gaps when Petracca and the likes need a breather.

 

 

Sparrow is a Premiership player who went to a new level in the latter part of 2023. The fact that you obviously are oblivious to these developments makes it difficult to agree with your wider views on player worth!

The Pies won 3 finals by a combined 12 points.

In 2021 we won 3 finals by a combined 190 and in 2022 Geelong won by a combined 158....

Wow everyone must be terrified of this unstoppable Pies team.

23 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

Steven May was right

24 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

Smoking the pipe again, Ralphy

3 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

Emphatic nature, winning trade period - Ralphy plz. The narrative around the Pies is ridiculous.

It creates clicks and that is all that matters in journalism these days.

They won there finals games by basically under a goal in each, doesn't take much for those results to go the other way.

 

 

8 minutes ago, waynewussell said:

Sparrow is a Premiership player who went to a new level in the latter part of 2023. The fact that you obviously are oblivious to these developments makes it difficult to agree with your wider views on player worth!

Yeah nah, he didnt go to a new level at all. He played the same support role he's played majority of his career which is good because all good teams need role players.u

Stats wise his last 5 games as a midfielder he only averaged around 15 disposals per game. 

I'll repeat again, he'll never be a top line midfielder in the elite category. But what he needs to do is step up further next year and start averaging 20-23 disposal per game next because we can't continue to rely on Oliver, Petracca and Viney to do majority of the grunt work week in week out.

He's 24 next year, no reason why he can't jump into those type of numbers as a midfielder.

 

49 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Spot on.

I think one of the biggest concerns through this trade period is not being able to address our midfield depth at all. It's very thin on paper.

We've just moved on Jordon and Harmes who were both the 23rd and 24th player that were ready to step in when either a Oliver, Brayshaw or Viney had to miss games. Even Luke Dunstan retiring leaves us further lacking in this department. 

Right now, the next best available option is Woewodin and that's it. Brayshaw is one hit away from potential retirement and Viney will be 30 next year. Then there is the obvious concerns with Oliver as well. 

I don't ever see Sparrow ever being a top line midfielder and I think at best he's just an honest battler who's happy to fill in gaps when Petracca and the likes need a breather.

Was hoping we'd go after a mature age ruck to at least just have in the background. If Gawn goes down then it's left to Fullarton who's not even a genuine ruckman but more a forward, and then a 19 year old Will Varrell. 

 

 

You would have to think we have a plan in place.

If we can see it from the outside then surely the club can.

...because as you say at the moment it looks very thin on paper.

It will be more than interesting to see how the list stands after the trade and draft period.

50 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

I suppose it makes for a welcome break from Essendon ‘winning trade week’.

 

4 minutes ago, rjay said:

You would have to think we have a plan in place.

If we can see it from the outside then surely the club can.

...because as you say at the moment it looks very thin on paper.

It will be more than interesting to see how the list stands after the trade and draft period.

Going with the limited list spots available on our list, I highly doubt it.

Wouldn't be surprised if we gain a player from out of nowhere on the final day as we did with Hunter and Schache last season

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Spot on.

I think one of the biggest concerns through this trade period is not being able to address our midfield depth at all. It's very thin on paper.

We've just moved on Jordon and Harmes who were both the 23rd and 24th player that were ready to step in when either a Oliver, Brayshaw or Viney had to miss games. Even Luke Dunstan retiring leaves us further lacking in this department. 

Right now, the next best available option is Woewodin and that's it. Brayshaw is one hit away from potential retirement and Viney will be 30 next year. Then there is the obvious concerns with Oliver as well. 

I don't ever see Sparrow ever being a top line midfielder and I think at best he's just an honest battler who's happy to fill in gaps when Petracca and the likes need a breather.

Was hoping we'd go after a mature age ruck to at least just have in the background. If Gawn goes down then it's left to Fullarton who's not even a genuine ruckman but more a forward, and then a 19 year old Will Varrell. 

 

 

Would give McVee a go in the midfield myself, pace, good skills and good temperament. 

13 hours ago, Demons11 said:

A gun??? Spargos 21 season was 10 times better than McCreery’s 23 season 

Spargo could solve world peace, but Picket Fence would still have him behind Idi Amin, Pol Pot and Bin Laden in any ratings scale

Given Grundy was essentially out of our best side by the end of the year, we actually haven't lost any of our best 22 players.

We've lost a fair amount of depth, however we will gain two top 15 players in the draft and a fair chance one is Sanders or Curtin who will be ready to go straight away you would think.

I would've loved us to pick up a gun key forward, but if there are none available then no point overpaying for someone you don't really rate i.e Mabior Chol or Jacob Koschitzke.

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

I must have missed it when Schulz made the A-grade. Good player, but heck he's been built up this trade period. 

Finally..

 

My guess is our top 2 picks go to players closer to 'ready' than 'development', and then we pick a depth ruck and mid from delisted players/rookie, whatever mechanism fits. Maybe Sam Hayes, not sure about the mid delistings out there, but I'm sure someone's around who could have a crack. 

I just watched Curtin’s highlights and he looks like a ready made Steven May mark2. I’d be really happy to nab him in the draft if we could - f..k WC. 

17 hours ago, binman said:

Forget us posters. 

How about the professionals whose full time job is to make list decisions that help us win a flag. 

It would appear these professionals have seemingly determined a key forward is not a major priority.

Given the comparative expertise of your average DL poster and the recruiting team at the elite AFL level i think it is reasonable to put more weight in the latter's assessment of our current list needs.

Ipso facto, i'm happy to go with trading in a key forward is not not a major priority.

In other words she’ll be right.

I'm liking this for the use of 'ipso facto' alone. 

I like the Schultz acquisition. However I think the media are overplaying it. I also think they slightly overpaid as a F1 was definitely enough. Although they’ll be happy to have got a player who can impact up forward immediately. And also we haven’t lost any best 22 players. Grundy is one of the better rucks in the league. However it didn’t work with Gawn. And with Grundy Jordon Harmes and Dunstan going we have certainly lost depth. 

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Spot on.

I think one of the biggest concerns through this trade period is not being able to address our midfield depth at all. It's very thin on paper.

We've just moved on Jordon and Harmes who were both the 23rd and 24th player that were ready to step in when either a Oliver, Brayshaw or Viney had to miss games. Even Luke Dunstan retiring leaves us further lacking in this department. 

Right now, the next best available option is Woewodin and that's it. Brayshaw is one hit away from potential retirement and Viney will be 30 next year. Then there is the obvious concerns with Oliver as well. 

I don't ever see Sparrow ever being a top line midfielder and I think at best he's just an honest battler who's happy to fill in gaps when Petracca and the likes need a breather.

Was hoping we'd go after a mature age ruck to at least just have in the background. If Gawn goes down then it's left to Fullarton who's not even a genuine ruckman but more a forward, and then a 19 year old Will Varrell. 

 

 

Jack Billings?

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/department-of-trade/afl-trade-news-rumours-whispers-2023-jack-billings-collingwood-st-kilda-contract-western-bulldogs-little-interest-in-player/news-story/cceb745d9702de954b4dfa0e8496cad2

Edited October 16, 20231 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter