11 minutes ago, Lil_red_fire_engine said:

The pressure will be on Goodwin in the first 6-8 weeks to have us looking like the late 2021/early 2022 model with some tweaks. If we look like the mid to late 2022 model the pressure will rise pretty quickly. Our list is too good for the 6 win 8 loss way we finished the season and I suggest there will be little patience to waste the premiership window we have. 

So you’d consider sacking goody in 2023 after he broke our drought and finished first and second in H/A the last two years? That would be absolute madness

injuries and underdone players surely the main reason for our poor form late 2022

even if Goody goes 10-0 again next year people won’t give him any credit. 

17 minutes ago, DubDee said:

So you’d consider sacking goody in 2023 after he broke our drought and finished first and second in H/A the last two years? That would be absolute madness

injuries and underdone players surely the main reason for our poor form late 2022

even if Goody goes 10-0 again next year people won’t give him any credit. 

I am saying that if we are half way through the year at 6-6 the pressure will be on.  Ignore where we finished last year and consider we won 6 of our last 14 games. For arguments sake though how long will you accept this list having a 50:50 win loss ratio before pressure on the coach should be considered? To be clear I rate Goodwin and therefore doubt we will be in this position. 

 

I don’t care how many champions we have, my concern is that if we come back with the same game plan as last year - particularly our forward structure and entries - then we will be lucky to make the eight this year. 

2 hours ago, Lil_red_fire_engine said:

I am saying that if we are half way through the year at 6-6 the pressure will be on.  Ignore where we finished last year and consider we won 6 of our last 14 games. For arguments sake though how long will you accept this list having a 50:50 win loss ratio before pressure on the coach should be considered? To be clear I rate Goodwin and therefore doubt we will be in this position. 

 

Tough one. All coaches are under pressure all the time. I guess I was assuming the coach under pressure implies he is close to being sacked. Like I said 6-8 key players were carrying injuries last half of last year so imo this does not add any pressure to Goody. Stability wins flags, if we were reactive and sacked Goody which many on here supported in 2020 we would not have a flag imo and could have lost key players. To answer your question, I would tolerate one down year over the next 3 once it is short lived and Goody still ‘has the players’ and has the vision and believe

Let's take the season one week at a time.

Remember 2021. Who guessed at the beginning of the year that it would be our time in the sun?

So let's not waste time on rampant speculation, wild guesses, hopeful dreams and ill-informed commentary before the season has even started. There are too many talking heads in the media for us to compete with.

Just enjoy reading training reports and encouraging the boys.

GO DEES (one week at a time)

38 minutes ago, tiers said:

 

So let's not waste time on rampant speculation, wild guesses, hopeful dreams and ill-informed commentary before the season has even started. There are too many talking heads in the media for us to compete with.

 

GO DEES (one week at a time)

Tiers, did you take a wrong turn somewhere on the internet? 

What else would we do in the off season!!

11 hours ago, DubDee said:

The pressure is rising on Goodwin?? Really?

why do the herald keep banging on about this? They had a full article on this last month. Goody has been the most successful coach in the league over the past two years, arguably only Scott ahead of him. He has helped assemble and develop an amazing group. Once the list gets fit, rested and does a full preseason, I have us as premiership favourites 

staggering how underrated Goody still is. Compare him with Bevo - won a flag then missed finals the next two years but no pressure

But is he the right guy? 😁

On 12/28/2022 at 12:56 PM, D4Life said:

TMac & BBB seemingly fit! Tomlinson 2nd year back after knee injury might be moving better, so more realistic back up!

 

16 hours ago, 58er said:

Also Salo Rick Trac and BBB plus Tmac back and all  will have better less interrupted and much greater fitness ALL season especially at the pointy end of the campaign

A fully fit and in-form Salem would be a big lift for the side.  Really important player for us when firing.  I feel he never really got going in 2022 like in 21. 

At least Trac was pretty awsome at the start of the season and even then in patches after he was apparently carrying an injury.

Edited December 29, 20222 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

On 12/29/2022 at 6:32 AM, picket fence said:

My hatred of Jeelong borders on the Insane!

Quite agree. In fact my hatred for Geelong and the filth is pathalogical.

45 minutes ago, dl4e said:

Quite agree. In fact my hatred for Geelong and the filth is pathalogical.

Mine is a more balanced hatred, in they have a few unfair advantages! Plus while admiring the capabilities of Hawkins & Selwood, both let get away with murder on frees and reports!

22 hours ago, Lil_red_fire_engine said:

I am saying that if we are half way through the year at 6-6 the pressure will be on.  Ignore where we finished last year and consider we won 6 of our last 14 games. For arguments sake though how long will you accept this list having a 50:50 win loss ratio before pressure on the coach should be considered? To be clear I rate Goodwin and therefore doubt we will be in this position. 

 

Good clubs don’t over react to one seasons results! Badly run clubs do - Essendon are the prime example this year!

If next year goes badly, they will look at what to change but it won’t be the 2021 premiership coach!

I would imagine a big party of the season review will be player management and load.  The cats got it right this year and kept their team "fresh", though an easy run home certainly helped them do that.    It will be interesting to see how we manage players this year.

On 12/29/2022 at 8:25 AM, picket fence said:

 Start with

1 Fitness

2 Not picking teams on form

Agree but not picking 2023 teams on 2022 or 2021 form. Just pick on 2023 form and replace and watch the team do a 2021 version again. 

4 hours ago, darkhorse72 said:

I would imagine a big party of the season review will be player management and load.  The cats got it right this year and kept their team "fresh", though an easy run home certainly helped them do that.    It will be interesting to see how we manage players this year.

I feel a big part of the issue to pick through here is that seemingly what worked for us in 2021 in terms of player management didn't in 2022. 

From what I heard of the Burgo philosophy, it was all about big pre-season, training at high intensity and playing players through niggles rather than resting them if they were 80% or there abouts.  There were some exceptions in 2021, such as late starts for BBB, rests for Salem and possibly others like Viney at various points in the season to 100% recover from more chronic injuries, but from what I recall Burgo's mantra was mostly about train hard to play hard and not resting players.

4 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I feel a big part of the issue to pick through here is that seemingly what worked for us in 2021 in terms of player management didn't in 2022. 

From what I heard of the Burgo philosophy, it was all about big pre-season, training at high intensity and playing players through niggles rather than resting them if they were 80% or there abouts.  There were some exceptions in 2021, such as late starts for BBB, rests for Salem and possibly others like Viney at various points in the season to 100% recover from more chronic injuries, but from what I recall Burgo's mantra was mostly about train hard to play hard and not resting players.

2022 was however, the injury season from hell for the Demons. It had not much to do with Burgo's mantra. 

47 minutes ago, Monbon said:

2022 was however, the injury season from hell for the Demons. It had not much to do with Burgo's mantra. 

Not sure 2022 was really that hellish injury wise.  The only players I can recall we lost for big parts of the season were T Mac, BBB, and perhaps Salem and Hibbo during the first half of the season.  There was also J Smith and Disco, but they're not established best 22. There would have been a number of other top 8 teams that dealt with more injuries than that I feel.  T Mac exposed a key structural area we lacked depth (and or a willingness to experiment with others), but the others like Salem and Hibbo were positions we had plenty of depth.

The rest were really more 1 or 2 week injuries and niggles and/or trying to keep players playing with underlying issues that really comes more within the space of player management.

37 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Not sure 2022 was really that hellish injury wise.  The only players I can recall we lost for big parts of the season were T Mac, BBB, and perhaps Salem and Hibbo during the first half of the season.  There was also J Smith and Disco, but they're not established best 22. There would have been a number of other top 8 teams that dealt with more injuries than that I feel.  T Mac exposed a key structural area we lacked depth (and or a willingness to experiment with others), but the others like Salem and Hibbo were positions we had plenty of depth.

The rest were really more 1 or 2 week injuries and niggles and/or trying to keep players playing with underlying issues that really comes more within the space of player management.

It was more to do with the players carrying injuries into the business end: the reason we were consistently outplayed, despite leading at half in most matches. The players I refer to are: Langdon, Petracca, Oliver, Gawn, Lever, Salem, Viney. 

23 minutes ago, Monbon said:

It was more to do with the players carrying injuries into the business end: the reason we were consistently outplayed, despite leading at half in most matches. The players I refer to are: Langdon, Petracca, Oliver, Gawn, Lever, Salem, Viney. 

Which comes back to player management.  We have a few more weeks of rest and prep going into next year.  

On 12/28/2022 at 2:56 AM, D4Life said:

- Longer pre season for all.

- Longer off-season break for all.

29 minutes ago, Monbon said:

the reason we were consistently outplayed, despite leading at half in most matches.

Lingering injuries, yes. But as both Gawn and Goodwin commented at the end of this season, we didn't really get a break at the end of 21, the two seasons virtually rolled together. With predictable results.

No accident that back to back premierships are so hard to come by.

45 minutes ago, Monbon said:

It was more to do with the players carrying injuries into the business end: the reason we were consistently outplayed, despite leading at half in most matches. The players I refer to are: Langdon, Petracca, Oliver, Gawn, Lever, Salem, Viney. 

Don’t forget TMac& BBB…..And Pickett, JJ and Jackson were carrying knee injuries into the finals. That’s 11 players below their best. Small wonder we fell away in the second half of games at the end of the season.

Edited December 30, 20222 yr by george_on_the_outer

2 hours ago, Monbon said:

It was more to do with the players carrying injuries into the business end: the reason we were consistently outplayed, despite leading at half in most matches. The players I refer to are: Langdon, Petracca, Oliver, Gawn, Lever, Salem, Viney. 

 

1 hour ago, george_on_the_outer said:

Don’t forget TMac& BBB…..And Pickett, JJ and Jackson were carrying knee injuries into the finals. That’s 11 players below their best. Small wonder we fell away in the second half of games at the end of the season.

Found an article that outlines Burgo's philosophy:

Fitness guru reveals secret to Dees' incredible injury-free run:

https://www.afl.com.au/news/686425/fitness-guru-reveals-secret-to-dees-incredible-injury-free-run

 

Some key statements below:

"There's two ways to go about injury prevention, I think. 

"If someone has niggles you give them a rest so they complete as many sessions as possible, cut the sessions short if someone's a bit sore, or you can build them up and push them through those periods where they're a little sore, a little bit tender and a little bit fatigued … to provide them with that robustness to get through."

Burgess said he used to subscribe to the former theory before evolving to the latter in recent years.

After an improved 2020, Melbourne won the 2021 premiership partly off the back of player availability, and the work of Burgess and his team.

Nine men played in all 25 games, another four missed just one, and 16 played 20 games or more.

"Providing that physical resilience was about turning up, day after day, with training intensity at a super high level," he said.

"It's really tempting for medical, performance people to say 'we train from November to March and then we play games. And in January when it's a bit hot and someone rolled their ankle slightly, it's tempting to say just have this session off, it's just January, it doesn't matter if you miss one session'. But it does.

 

Somehow this worked for us in 2021, with players no doubt carrying some injuries through the middle parts of the season, but in 2022, if Selwyn Griffith applied the same philosophy, we are supposing that it wasn't as effective, because the players weren't in as good a condition headding into finals.  Maybe there's also some nuance that we didn't quite get right in 2022.

I'm also actually woundering if injuries in 2022 were really as significant as is being made out?  We weren't that far off Sydney and Brisbane in the finals we played them.  Brisbane we'd smashed comprehensively just a few weeks earlier on their home deck.  I'm woundering if it's more down to being outplayed on the night in 2022?  To some extent I also recall Sydney being helped back into the game by some fairly dubious, momentum shifting umpiring.  We beat Sydney and then we'd have had a weeks rest for the whole side before the prelim like we did in 2021.

Edited December 30, 20222 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

On 12/30/2022 at 6:08 PM, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Not sure 2022 was really that hellish injury wise.  The only players I can recall we lost for big parts of the season were T Mac, BBB, and perhaps Salem and Hibbo during the first half of the season.  There was also J Smith and Disco, but they're not established best 22. There would have been a number of other top 8 teams that dealt with more injuries than that I feel.  T Mac exposed a key structural area we lacked depth (and or a willingness to experiment with others), but the others like Salem and Hibbo were positions we had plenty of depth.

The rest were really more 1 or 2 week injuries and niggles and/or trying to keep players playing with underlying issues that really comes more within the space of player management.

Half the team couldn’t get past a jog in the semi final. We were beaten up badly. 

I just watched the second half of that match again. We got killed by the umpires, Kozzie missed two shots he should never ever have missed, yet with a minute to go, we were a real chance. The way I and everyone else on Demonland has reacted, it was a disaster and we were hopeless. Sure, we all wanted to win the premiership and believed we could, but we played a team which had been highly predicted to be the premiers themselves , and had every chance to win it, and it was an extremely close and exciting game.  
 

I have never been as optimistic coming into a season as I am for 2023. I think Grundy and Gawn will be incredible together. People say that Oliver is “one of the best midfielders in the competition”. Rubbish. He is hands down the best, not “one of the best”. Petracca is one of the best.  Viney is one of the best. We have the best defence in the league, two of the best wingers, and we all hope we will now have a functional forward line. I can’t wait! 

22 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

I just watched the second half of that match again. We got killed by the umpires, Kozzie missed two shots he should never ever have missed, yet with a minute to go, we were a real chance. The way I and everyone else on Demonland has reacted, it was a disaster and we were hopeless. Sure, we all wanted to win the premiership and believed we could, but we played a team which had been highly predicted to be the premiers themselves , and had every chance to win it, and it was an extremely close and exciting game.  
 

I have never been as optimistic coming into a season as I am for 2023. I think Grundy and Gawn will be incredible together. People say that Oliver is “one of the best midfielders in the competition”. Rubbish. He is hands down the best, not “one of the best”. Petracca is one of the best.  Viney is one of the best. We have the best defence in the league, two of the best wingers, and we all hope we will now have a functional forward line. I can’t wait! 

It is all so exciting, as you describe, that I feel like a three year old, once again. Off for a piddle once again, too, just thinking about the possibilities.