1 hour ago, picket fence said:

But Spargy pants was and he is bog slow!

But he's also smart and our best kick inside 50 - Speaks to the whole point about ball movement being more important than leg speed.

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

But he's also smart and our best kick inside 50 - Speaks to the whole point about ball movement being more important than leg speed.

Spargo has very high footy IQ. He always plays the percentages.

Spargo is one who will struggle to keep his spot. Yep, he kicks nice 30 meter kicks, Has ok AFL intelligence with ball in hand, but has weaknesses. He was exposed like many in the forward line this year and beaten defensively too easily. AFL intelligence also includes the ability to find the ball and kick goals. 

Many have a go at JJ for hesitancy and stifling momentum: yes he did this more often than most, but does anyone really think given that he was repeatedly selected he was not playing to instruction / team rules?

Surely had he been told that forward momentum was paramount and yet kept doing this he would have had a spell at Casey. 

We are most def the slowest at adapting/changing.

1 hour ago, monoccular said:

Many have a go at JJ for hesitancy and stifling momentum: yes he did this more often than most, but does anyone really think given that he was repeatedly selected he was not playing to instruction / team rules?

Surely had he been told that forward momentum was paramount and yet kept doing this he would have had a spell at Casey. 

so Forward momentum was not paramount! If not what the hell was?

JJ was a throwback to another time and game plan since abandoned by most

4 minutes ago, Kent said:

so Forward momentum was not paramount! If not what the hell was?

 

Defence.

Jimmer Jordon was 4th in the b&f after round 16

Tough to believe he wasn't playing to instruction and/or had limited options to actually go fast to when accused of holding the ball up 

He is criminally underrated on here, while we have mids like Sparrow who provide half the output who get a pump up every time they take a p1$s 

48 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Defence.

So JJ running from defense with forward momentum stops, looks around, waits, dummies a kick or two, waits for the oppo defense to get set,then roosts it to a contest.

Ahh now i see its about the opposition defense right.

It's a good point but I'm much more focused on our ball movement than our pure leg speed.

1 hour ago, Kent said:

So JJ running from defense with forward momentum stops, looks around, waits, dummies a kick or two, waits for the oppo defense to get set,then roosts it to a contest.

Ahh now i see its about the opposition defense right.

If we play such a predictable forward entry game, bombing it to the left forward pocket boundary every time, then it suggests that JJ was playing to instructions, as if he wasn’t, he would have been dropped or changed the way he played.

As Adonski just posted, he was 4th in the B&F at round 16. Obviously the Coaches thought he was playing well and to instructions.

I posted on DL before JJ had played a senior game and when most on DL wanted him delisted, that he would be a senior player. Incidentally, were you one of the ones who wanted him delisted?

I don’t blame JJ for his slowing the game down, I blame the Coaching.

 

15 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I don’t blame JJ for his slowing the game down, I blame the Coaching.

Watching the 2021 prelim against Geelong this week (needed some happy TV). Could not help but think how Scott turned around his team in 2022 whereas we went backwards if anything in our gameplan.

Let's hope 2023 gives us a better mix

23 minutes ago, Redleg said:

If we play such a predictable forward entry game, bombing it to the left forward pocket boundary every time, then it suggests that JJ was playing to instructions, as if he wasn’t, he would have been dropped or changed the way he played.

As Adonski just posted, he was 4th in the B&F at round 16. Obviously the Coaches thought he was playing well and to instructions.

I posted on DL before JJ had played a senior game and when most on DL wanted him delisted, that he would be a senior player. Incidentally, were you one of the ones who wanted him delisted?

I don’t blame JJ for his slowing the game down, I blame the Coaching.

 

100% this. What is JJ or any of our mids meant to do when more often than not our forwards push so high up the ground. Would love to see 3 stay at home forwards, isolate Kossie, isolate Fritsch and heaven forbid that we actually played to Ben Browns strengths and kicked the ball to him one on one or in a lead to space situation. Our forward line set up and leading patterns are poor. I am hoping that Santa leaves a “specialist” forward line coach Under the MFC Christmas tree 

3 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

We are most def the slowest at adapting/changing.

Which is why I expect more dysfunction in the forward line and panic in the backline when the ball comes in low and quick.

2 hours ago, Kent said:

so Forward momentum was not paramount! If not what the hell was?

JJ was a throwback to another time and game plan since abandoned by most

... yet he continued  to be elected.  Must have been doing what he was asked to do

4 minutes ago, Dee Viney Intervention said:

100% this. What is JJ or any of our mids meant to do when more often than not our forwards push so high up the ground. Would love to see 3 stay at home forwards, isolate Kossie, isolate Fritsch and heaven forbid that we actually played to Ben Browns strengths and kicked the ball to him one on one or in a lead to space situation. Our forward line set up and leading patterns are poor. I am hoping that Santa leaves a “specialist” forward line coach Under the MFC Christmas tree 

I have been wondering with out entire forward line pushing up the ground, we often do find a completely empty forward line with no targets, why not adopt a version of Pagan's Paddock with Kozzie stationed slightly forward one on one.

1 minute ago, monoccular said:

... yet he continued  to be elected.  Must have been doing what he was asked to do

I have been wondering with out entire forward line pushing up the ground, we often do find a completely empty forward line with no targets, why not adopt a version of Pagan's Paddock with Kozzie stationed slightly forward one on one.

In 2018 we frequently had 'fast breaks' and got out the back for easy goals, it's the opposite now, always trying to enter a flooded forward line 

3 hours ago, adonski said:

Jimmer Jordon was 4th in the b&f after round 16

Tough to believe he wasn't playing to instruction and/or had limited options to actually go fast to when accused of holding the ball up 

He is criminally underrated on here, while we have mids like Sparrow who provide half the output who get a pump up every time they take a p1$s 

Same Tom Sparrow who finished higher than Jordon and won the coaches award?

Righto.

2 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Same Tom Sparrow who finished higher than Jordon and won the coaches award?

Righto.

Definitive proof Goodwin is a poor judge! 

On 12/22/2022 at 11:17 AM, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

I accept what you are saying, but being live at every game this season, sitting on the members wing, this wasn’t always the excuse. There were several occasions where we had plenty ahead of the ball and his hesitation stifled us. 

When ball movement is fast and good into a well structured forward line opposition defenders often panic. Slow ball movement gives time for the defence to get in position.

Melbournes defence is fantastic when it has time to set up, but doesn’t look anywhere near as good when the ball comes in quickly.

Hunter will move the ball a lot quicker than JJ!

Edited December 24, 20222 yr by D4Life
Spelling

On 12/21/2022 at 7:30 PM, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

One of the key reasons for slow ball movement, IMHO, was the move of James Jordon to the wing. He stifles ball movement. Takes far far too long to make a decision. I think it’s the nerves of being young and not a regular 22 player. Scared to make mistakes. Many times he got the ball on a wing and held play up, which resulted in killed momentum. Lachie Hunter may fix this issue. Just my take

Agree

On 12/21/2022 at 11:18 AM, Bystander said:

Chandler should be ready. Re Laurie, very hard to significantly increase pace.

It doesn't have to be much 5/6 kg loss = 0.25% Speed increase and attitude plus enthusiasm is the diff between old Bill Laurie and The new Bailey Laurie.

His weight  loss will be vital in his attempt to bridge the gap in the VFL and AFL. There is a danger most of last years recruits will pass him by if he does not get a fast start to the season. 

2 hours ago, D4Life said:

When ball movement is fast and good into a well structured forward line opposition defenders often panic. Slow ball movement gives time for the defence to get in position.

Melbournes defence is fantastic when it has time to set up, but doesn’t look anywhere near as good when the ball comes in quickly.

Hunter will move the ball a lot quicker than JJ!

The reports from my doggy friends, Hunter is an endurance beast but his kicking can be loopy and his decision making is slow. But he has the runs on the board and should be an upgrade on the opposite wing than JJ. 

Edited December 24, 20222 yr by Demonsterative

4 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Same Tom Sparrow who finished higher than Jordon and won the coaches award?

Righto.

The same Sparrow who beat JJ by a measly 2 points and had more games. 
 
Semantics for sake of…… 

2 hours ago, Demonsterative said:

The same Sparrow who beat JJ by a measly 2 points and had more games. 
 
Semantics for sake of…… 

Yes, the very same Sparrow who was continually selected after Jordon wasn't... Tag, you're it

On 12/23/2022 at 8:31 AM, Lord Nev said:

But he's also smart and our best kick inside 50 - Speaks to the whole point about ball movement being more important than leg speed.

Get Chandler and Bowey back in the team, playing in the forward line. Reckon they can make a big difference.