TRAINING: Friday 16th December 2022

[tiers 2,840]

2 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Kevin Bartlett made it an art-form to bounce the ball in front of him just before he was about to be tackled to earn a free kick for holding the man. That was using the rules (as they then were) to his advantage. Was that also cheating?

Yes. Because the (then) VFL had to change the rules to prevent players from unfairly taking advantage of the previous rule.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,799]

7 minutes ago, tiers said:

Yes. Because the (then) VFL had to change the rules to prevent players from unfairly taking advantage of the previous rule.

I think we must have a different opinion on the meaning of "cheating". 

[jnrmac 20,095]

2 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Just to explore this idea of "cheating" a bit more, it seems that some people believe that players who successfully exploit the rules and the way the game is umpired (as has been suggested about Hawkins and Selwood in this thread) are "cheating". Kevin Bartlett made it an art-form to bounce the ball in front of him just before he was about to be tackled to earn a free kick for holding the man. That was using the rules (as they then were) to his advantage. Was that also cheating?

Hawkins is umpired differently to other players, as was Selwood, Goodes, Dangerfield and the whole of the Western Bulldogs FC

Its beyond a joke that WBFC continually receive lopsided free kick counts. Statistical outlier. Just like Selwood and his high tackles that they tried to change the rule over. 

[Deebauched 1,220]

Hawkins dead set pushed his Lions opponent in the back removing him from the contest right in front of the umpire at the cattery.

No free..play on. Even Hawkins appeared to be laughing. You dont want to have a tight finish at the cattery. We've recently done it and won  but having no crowd definitely helped.

Edited December 21, 2022 by Deebauched

[tiers 2,840]

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I think we must have a different opinion on the meaning of "cheating". 

To me, cheating in our great game involves a deliberate attempt to obtain an unfair advantage by circumventing the intent and the spirit of the rules in a contest. That's what Bartlett did.

Our great game has many rules that are designed to provide a fair contest and that are open to interpretation. That there was almost universal condemnation of Bartlett's conduct should be enough to satisfy my definition.

[loges 6,767]

1 hour ago, tiers said:

Yes. Because the (then) VFL had to change the rules to prevent players from unfairly taking advantage of the previous rule.

No, Bartlett took advantage of the rules as they were then written. Current rules clearly state hands in the back should be penalised 

[tiers 2,840]

3 minutes ago, loges said:

No, Bartlett took advantage of the rules as they were then written. Current rules clearly state hands in the back should be penalised 

Bartlett's sins were not related to hands in the back.

[loges 6,767]

1 hour ago, tiers said:

Bartlett's sins were not related to hands in the back.

No but Hawkins are. 

[dworship 3,342]

9 hours ago, loges said:

No, Bartlett took advantage of the rules as they were then written. Current rules clearly state hands in the back should be penalised 

Sorry Loges but the "current rules" don't state that. The rules were modified (again!!) to allow players to hold their ground in a marking contest by placing the hands on the back of an opposition player. Essentially going back to the original rule where a "push" is what is penalised. If you look up the definition of "push" in a dictionary it says "to propel forward". I've seen Hawkins propel forward defenders by several metres and not be penalised. So perhaps it's the Umpires who are cheats or they are just incompetent, probably the latter. The way commentators, often former greats of the game, fawn over Hawkins with comments like; "a great show of strength in that contest" is sickening. I've also seen Hawkins take strong marks by holding his ground but he does get away with a lot of two handed shoves in the back.

[58er 6,455]

On 12/21/2022 at 10:26 AM, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I was more meaning the sprint with premership cup duties, but Riv probably has the right attitude and flare for that too, so your right, maybe he's Pig Mk II all round!

That's a bad call on Riv ( Pig mk11) as he would consider himself as just about the best looking Rooster on the list at Demonland!!  

[daisycutter 29,616]

53 minutes ago, 58er said:

That's a bad call on Riv ( Pig mk11) as he would consider himself as just about the best looking Rooster on the list at Demonland!!  

we should run a poll on best looking rooster

[Demonstone 22,565]

No contest.

[daisycutter 29,616]

3 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

No contest.

i  double raise

 

and there's a whole team of roosters in sydney and red'n'blue to boot......but no good looking ones alas

 

[defuture15 899]

On 12/19/2022 at 4:00 PM, defuture15 said:

Are they creating a Tomahawk? That would be the monster forward we need

Was thinking more of a gorilla forward difficult to manoeuvre and out mark 

Edited December 22, 2022 by defuture15

[D4Life 2,475]

Hawkins & Selwood both great players, but really get looked after by the umpires, I think part of it is they have played finals for so many years, umpires recognition and respect of them very high.

At Cattery, where 95% plus of crowd pro Cats, umpires influenced by crowd and Cats get dream run! Hawkins & Selwood get even better treatment!

[Whispering_Jack 30,193]

On 12/18/2022 at 9:51 AM, dworship said:

The Brayshaw Xmas 100 x 100 challenge should sort things out.

And (belatedly) the Herald Sun has confirmed in an on line thread entitled “AFL off-season: What your club’s players are up to over Christmas break”

“THE BRAYSHAWS

“As they usually do, Angus and Andrew Brayshaw did their 100 100m runs on Christmas Day.

“The Melbourne and Fremantle stars gruelling session at Christmas have now been replicated by other players keen to get an edge on the rest of the competition”.

[4_Kent_Watts 889]

On 12/20/2022 at 10:12 AM, jnrmac said:

He is a cheat with his pushing and rarely gets called out

It's not him cheating it's the umpires who allow him to blatantly get away with it. 

[4_Kent_Watts 889]

On 12/21/2022 at 8:59 AM, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Just to explore this idea of "cheating" a bit more, it seems that some people believe that players who successfully exploit the rules and the way the game is umpired (as has been suggested about Hawkins and Selwood in this thread) are "cheating". Kevin Bartlett made it an art-form to bounce the ball in front of him just before he was about to be tackled to earn a free kick for holding the man. That was using the rules (as they then were) to his advantage. Was that also cheating?

Bartlett made it an art form to THROW ball every time he got the ball. YES he's the biggest cheat to ever play the game. Australia's version of Maradona.

[Redleg 40,940]

9 hours ago, 4_Kent_Watts said:

It's not him cheating it's the umpires who allow him to blatantly get away with it. 

Correct. You push the rules and situations to try and win and it’s up to the officials to enforce the rules and ensure the game is played according to the rules.

 

[Clintosaurus 7,851]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Correct. You push the rules and situations to try and win and it’s up to the officials to enforce the rules and ensure the game is played according to the rules.

 

And like in the BBL they are enforced selectively.

[Redleg 40,940]

5 hours ago, Clintosaurus said:

And like in the BBL they are enforced selectively.

That might be the case, but that is officialdom’s issue to fix.

[dworship 3,342]

9 hours ago, Redleg said:

Correct. You push the rules and situations to try and win and it’s up to the officials to enforce the rules and ensure the game is played according to the rules.

 

So in sense it's like a thief and it's up to the police to catch him.

[bing181 9,242]

On 12/19/2022 at 1:08 AM, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

But over all, my take is that 2021, we managed it almost perfectly and had almost everything fall our way in terms of lack of injuries to key players and easy run home at the end of the home and away season.

The other consideration in comparing 22 to 21 is to look at what the players had had to face the previous season.

In 2022, we'd come off a long season of 25 full-length games, many of them high pressure/intensity.

Contrast that with 2021 where we'd come off 2020's 17-game season of shortened games.

Little wonder we were flying in 21 - and that it all caught up with us in 22. (In the various 2022 post-mortems this hasn't been discussed enough in my opinion.)

Edited January 8, 2023 by bing181

[Redleg 40,940]

15 hours ago, dworship said:

So in sense it's like a thief and it's up to the police to catch him.

I get the joke.

Seriously though, its not cheating if you are testing the rules or interpreting them to your advantage, as opposed to blatantly breaking them.

It's probably the same in all sports.

[dworship 3,342]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

I get the joke.

Seriously though, its not cheating if you are testing the rules or interpreting them to your advantage, as opposed to blatantly breaking them.

It's probably the same in all sports.

I'll keep the joke going; Hawkins knows that propelling an opposition player forward by placing two hands in the middle of their back and pushing is against the rules, much like the burglar knows it's against the rules to break into your home. Both are preying on the ineptitude of those enforcing the rules.

Your reasoning is like the solicitor who sends a letter of demand on behalf of a client. Knowing that such a letter has no legal standing, often while preying on peoples ignorance.