21 minutes ago, BoBo said:

Interesting statement. 
 

’However, as the allegations against me have been spread widely and sometimes as indisputable matters of facts,  I must state that my clear memory of the matters reported is very different’

So it’s not categorical denial that the matters occurred at all, it’s going to be about the character of what was said in so far as what was implied and what was inferred. 

If it straight up didn’t happen, he would come out and categorically deny the allegations. 

Yeah, I think we all hope that the truth is somewhere in the middle so that we understand the reaction and the bad blood but that we can see some humanity in people that are at the centre of this…

Such a depressing mess.

And again, well done to the club that had this culture that has waited to better itself so it only ruins 3 other clubs and head office. Hawthorn is a disgrace of a club.

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2022/09/28/saint-weighing-up-kangaroos-backflip-amid-clarkson-uncertainty/
 

Think there is more to come in this space. 
You’d have to think all the blokes on the move to North are having second thoughts right now. It’s a nasty situation

Entire saga is quite disturbing and deeply concerning. 

Unfortunately (as in, I wish my mind did not jump to a judgement), my immediate reaction is that there probably a reasonable degree of truth in the accusations. Without getting into any incriminating specifics, having had some dealings with the AFL I was often left very unimpressed and at times puzzled by their decision making, governance (or lack thereof), strongarm tactics and incompetence. So when these types of stories come out, I am more inclined to believe them. 

That said, I also think it is likely that the accusers and accusees have different interpretations of what occurred. I'd like to think whatever guidance the coaches and development managers provided to these players was at least intended to be in their best interest and either became a bit of an overreach, poorly communicated or misconstrued for its intent. 

Many of us would have often had to give some tough guidance to young mates when a girlfriend, location or other factor was clearly working against them and not in their best interest. I hope that is where this came from - notwithstanding it is inappropriate for an employer to be giving this guidance (or direction) directly rather than through an accredited, independent third party without a vested interest in the performance outcome. Clearly there are reasonable limits to this though which appear to have been walked past if these allegations are true. 

2 hours ago, BW511 said:

So this is the part where the process becomes the issue, rather than the actions?

So true

45 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Yeah, I think we all hope that the truth is somewhere in the middle so that we understand the reaction and the bad blood but that we can see some humanity in people that are at the centre of this…

Such a depressing mess.

And again, well done to the club that had this culture that has waited to better itself so it only ruins 3 other clubs and head office. Hawthorn is a disgrace of a club.

I don’t know if I hope the truth is anywhere on a scale leaning one way or the other to be honest. Remaining as disinterested as I can until the report and investigation findings  are released to be objective with what’s in front of me. 

Edited September 28, 20222 yr by BoBo

5 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

By "aboriginal members" do you mean anyone of aboriginal descent?

In line with current usage, it refers to anyone who identifies as aboriginal and is accepted as aboriginal by other aboriginals.

Can be very broadly interpreted.

9 hours ago, forever demons said:

What a daisy chain this forum has become ,illinformed and uneducated waffle,round and round we go

Why are you on 'Land then FD? We love all types of Daisies here.

2 minutes ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Why are you on 'Land then FD? We love all types of Daisies here.

👍 👏

1 hour ago, fr_ap said:

Entire saga is quite disturbing and deeply concerning. 

Unfortunately (as in, I wish my mind did not jump to a judgement), my immediate reaction is that there probably a reasonable degree of truth in the accusations. Without getting into any incriminating specifics, having had some dealings with the AFL I was often left very unimpressed and at times puzzled by their decision making, governance (or lack thereof), strongarm tactics and incompetence. So when these types of stories come out, I am more inclined to believe them. 

That said, I also think it is likely that the accusers and accusees have different interpretations of what occurred. I'd like to think whatever guidance the coaches and development managers provided to these players was at least intended to be in their best interest and either became a bit of an overreach, poorly communicated or misconstrued for its intent. 

Many of us would have often had to give some tough guidance to young mates when a girlfriend, location or other factor was clearly working against them and not in their best interest. I hope that is where this came from - notwithstanding it is inappropriate for an employer to be giving this guidance (or direction) directly rather than through an accredited, independent third party without a vested interest in the performance outcome. Clearly there are reasonable limits to this though which appear to have been walked past if these allegations are true. 

The august AFL? Hard to believe.

1 hour ago, BoBo said:

Interesting statement. 
 

’However, as the allegations against me have been spread widely and sometimes as indisputable matters of facts,  I must state that my clear memory of the matters reported is very different’

So it’s not categorical denial that the matters occurred at all, it’s going to be about the character of what was said in so far as what was implied and what was inferred. 

If it straight up didn’t happen, he would come out and categorically deny the allegations. 

It really comes down to an issue of control/power. What do I see as the best course for player x that will see the best outcome for the Club and I (the person in control/power)? Then dress that behavior up as "this will be great/good for player x and then talk in we language. "We had the best intentions to help player x achieve success".

You don't need to go very far to see similar behaviors in the likes of the Military, Police and other organizations.

They will try and spin this but this is master vs slave stuff. Although this is now historical and perhaps the perpetrators have changed their ways. This still needs to be called out and reparations need to be made. Regardless of who is held responsible, from what I've read it's clear harm has been done. The first defence is deny, deny, deny. That will only make things worse. At the very least, an acknowledgement of the harm done should be made, even without an admission of guilt. Those being accused at the moment are more interested in trying to make themselves look like victims and that's not going to fly.

6 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You would have found him not guilty if you were on a Jury?

But your personal belief deep down was that he was guilty of the crime…

ok

I'm good with that, beyond reasonable doubt means overuling emotion, tough to do.

9 hours ago, forever demons said:

What a daisy chain this forum has become ,illinformed and uneducated waffle,round and round we go

What a bunch of tree huggers

Edited September 28, 20222 yr by layzie

1 hour ago, dworship said:

Those being accused at the moment are more interested in trying to make themselves look like victims and that's not going to fly.

There is still a significant portion of Australians that deny racism exists outside of  explicitly calling people racial slurs. 
 

On top of that, there’s a smaller segment that want to propagate and perpetuate racism because… well… they’re just racist and they want to hold onto that apparently. 
 

People still defend Andrew Bolt for example even though he peddles anti-genocide rhetoric in the biggest newspaper in the country.

Even if the allegations are proven to be 100 % correct on the weight of things, I have learned to never underestimate people’s ability to deny racist intent.
 

People will then just say ‘ok yes those things happened, but it’s an isolated incident, this definitely isn’t an example of a larger trend and we definitely shouldn’t extrapolate this ‘isolated’ incident to larger societal/historical trends blah blah blah’ 
 

 

I heard Caroline Wilson on the radio saying that "everyone is knows" the identity of the whistleblowing Hawthorn assistant coach. I don't.

13 hours ago, rpfc said:

Yeah, I think we all hope that the truth is somewhere in the middle so that we understand the reaction and the bad blood but that we can see some humanity in people that are at the centre of this…

Such a depressing mess.

And again, well done to the club that had this culture that has waited to better itself so it only ruins 3 other clubs and head office. Hawthorn is a disgrace of a club.

Total amateur hour, I had so much respect for this football club and the way they went about it. This is just looking worse by the day and those comments from Newbold regarding not seeing/sending emails or taking any responsibility are just pathetic quite frankly.

When Jarryd Roughead had the second bout of cancer I was so envious of the way they rallied around him and I remember thinking in general how much I wanted our club to be like theirs. It's funny how things change and aren't what they seem. 

2 minutes ago, layzie said:

Total amateur hour, I had so much respect for this football club and the way they went about it. This is just looking worse by the day and those comments from Newbold regarding not seeing/sending emails or taking any responsibility are just pathetic quite frankly.

When Jarryd Roughead had the second bout of cancer I was so envious of the way they rallied around him and I remember thinking in general how much I wanted our club to be like theirs. It's funny how things change and aren't what they seem. 

Yes, and how a culture can fester even when it is winning, sometimes because it is winning.

They need to stop litigating this in the press; but that email response from the Prez to that person in pain was heartless and hopeless.

53 minutes ago, Redlagged said:

I heard Caroline Wilson on the radio saying that "everyone is knows" the identity of the whistleblowing Hawthorn assistant coach. I don't.

There wouldn't have been many assistant coaches during the time the report covers.  Process of elimination for those who knew them and then the name spreads like wildfire among the media.  

16 hours ago, tiers said:

In line with current usage, it refers to anyone who identifies as aboriginal and is accepted as aboriginal by other aboriginals.

Can be very broadly interpreted.

OK, so extrapolating from that we have to exclude any indigenous person because of a perceived bias or conflict of interest we will also have to exclude anyone of anglo-celtic heritage because of a perceived bias or conflict of interest.

9 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

OK, so extrapolating from that we have to exclude any indigenous person because of a perceived bias or conflict of interest we will also have to exclude anyone of anglo-celtic heritage because of a perceived bias or conflict of interest.

It’s only fair 

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It’s only fair 

and that leaves whom exacltly?

28 minutes ago, Kent said:

and that leaves whom exacltly?

Exactly my point. You cannot exclude one race without the other if you want fairness

 

 

Time to open our eyes