Hawks racism allegations (merged thread)

[BoBo 2,941]

3 minutes ago, layzie said:

Now that's the Bolt we know!

How can someone from Sky say the words 'ABC' and 'agenda' in the same sentence? 

It’s a very effective mode of deflection, you throw the accusations you’re guilty of at your opponent to skew discourse.

Murdoch press saying the ABC has an agenda is the definition of this tactic.

[layzie 33,718]

16 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

I think it's part of their contracts...

Their agenda with the ABC needs its own post code.

[Neitz the Great 555]

As someone married to a person of colour, albeit Indian not First Nation. I have forever seen the sacrifice and hardship that she has faced due to her skin colour, religion and overall appearance.  
 

This is a current day problem, and not one “in the past”. People of colour go through daily racism and ignorance due to their appearance, culture and beliefs despite their education and intelligence. 
 

My partner is a well respected lawyer and an amazing wife and it pains me to see what she goes through on the daily. I cannot begin to understand what these people have been forced to go through. People saying these are alleged accusations, I ask what possible benefit these First Nation people would have gained from making false accusations. This is a part of Australian society, and something that is not new or different for people of colour to face. 
 

As Gerard said on AFL 360, it is the stolen generation repeated. 
 

People of colour have and will continue to be used for entertainment purposes only. It is time the world takes a stance, and that people of colour, or in reality, non-westernised people, are truly appreciated for the value they bring to society besides their entertainment capacity. 
 

I’m sorry if I’m emotional, this is just a topic that speaks so true to me through second hand experience. I have shed some serious tears today running through this topic and hearing the press releases. DO BETTER AUSTRALIA. 
 

With much love,

 

Tom

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,797]

7 hours ago, layzie said:

Andy Maher made an excellent point. Why didn't Clarko take the call? He could have nipped this all in the bud I'd it was not true and demand the story not to be printed or else.

Either:

1. locked in talks with lawyers all day, or
2. "yeah.nah. She'll be right mate . . . let's not over cook this. It'll blow over. I'm Clarko."

Edited September 21, 2022 by Queanbeyan Demon
Typo

[dee-tox 4,835]

5 hours ago, BoBo said:

It’s a very effective mode of deflection, you throw the accusations you’re guilty of at your opponent to skew discourse.

Murdoch press saying the ABC has an agenda is the definition of this tactic.

This is what the largest media owner in Australia (Murdoch) will, no doubt, do. 

The bigger picture, of course, is this is now a global story with global implications. I've seen reports by the BBC, the New York Times, German, Dutch, Italian and Spanish news among others...

The main takeaway for most readers outside of Australia is that Australia continues to be a racist backwater, particularly when it comes to First Nations people. 

This is the last message Murdoch wants to portray.

 

[Frosticles 70]

My mum, God bless her, used to say "be sure your sins will find you out".  What is surprising to me is that it has taken this long for this stuff to surface. 

I feel sick in the pit of my stomach, thinking about the pressure brought to bear on young people.  I have young adult kids.  If someone treated them the way some of these young AFL players have been treated, there would be hell to pay.

If even half of the various allegations are true ... how does one explain the apparent lack of a moral compass ... and why weren't there some adults in the room who were prepared to speak up and intervene?

[Frosticles 70]

Other musings:

1.  does anyone think this is isolated to just Hawthorn?  I expect it isn't.  Just watched some of AFL 360 and listened to Eddie Betts and the others.  Suggestion was made that all clubs need to do a review.  How can they/we not do so?

2.  does anyone think this is isolated to just indigenous players?  I expect it isn't.  If you asked all young players over the past 10 years how they've been treated, I wonder what we would learn?

What a mess.  Got to drag it all out into the light now.

[Lucifers Hero 39,302]

8 hours ago, TheWiz said:

Luci, the Neeld/Davey allegations were completely false. Nothing was leaked. From memory Davey refuted this immediately once the one article was published and he was quite upset at the allegations.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/false-race-claim-leaves-afl-red-faced-as-davey-denies-involvement-20120403-1wb4j.html

Austin left after his fathers passing and his role in his community changed. Jurrah’s circumstances are well documented. It was good seeing him at Alice Springs supporting the club where no ill will was mentioned.

You’re asking fair questions under the topic, but be conscious of unfair conclusions and comments.

Thanks for the info and clarifying what happened.

I take great comfort from the work we are doing in Alice, with Naarm and the way we supported Kozzie when his mum passed away.  And as our AFLW captain Daisy Pearce has shown great leadership and grit 'taking on' the AFL recently.

I just hope that if we have any skeletons the club has found them and taken action to heal any wounds, if needed.

[DEE fence 4,997]

This is so much worse than the supplements saga, it is properly evil, having a baby, either as a young mum or dad is a profoundly vulnerable time that is also super stressful, to pressure someone one way or another, and not support their decision based upon a commercial interest is so sick. I found out about this from my Hawthorn mate who has good connections to the board. He believes the report and he said Cyril has been waiting for a long time to fully give his side of the story. He is passionately obsessive about the Hawks and about as conservative as you can get. He mentioned that Clarko was known for being brutal (his words) with young players. He didn’t connect Cyril directly but thinks it likely. He is bereft and was making no excuses, however I would note that Hawthorn commissioned the report, fair play to them for doing so, and everyone deserves their day in court. I would not make any assumptions about what other players knew or did not know.

I like that the AFL appointed a KC to lead the inquiry, that is a fair way to proceed. I actually think the AFL is moving the ball on Race in the right direction for the country, not perfectly, but ever since Nicky Winmar things have been getting better for the conversations we have. When you look at the totality of what has happened in sport you can see that Racism has been a stain but at least some of the people involved have owned the problem ( maybe kicking and screaming but still). I love Australia, best country by far for so many reasons, and acknowledging that it has a dark history to resolve changes none of my love. I am a white Australian ex cop who has indigenous family members. My father who was my hero, was an utter racist(hard to acknowledge), and yet none of his five sons continued that hate, which gives me huge optimism for Australia.  @Neitz the Great I have your back.

 

[Lucifers Hero 39,302]

11 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

That is speculation & a shameful slur on the Club without a scrap of evidence. You shoud hang your head.

Firstly, I wasn't speculating I was asking a question.  If you disagree with a poster insulting that poster is not the way to voice it.  This is:

9 hours ago, TheWiz said:

Luci, the Neeld/Davey allegations were completely false. Nothing was leaked. From memory Davey refuted this immediately once the one article was published and he was quite upset at the allegations.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/false-race-claim-leaves-afl-red-faced-as-davey-denies-involvement-20120403-1wb4j.html

Austin left after his fathers passing and his role in his community changed. Jurrah’s circumstances are well documented. It was good seeing him at Alice Springs supporting the club where no ill will was mentioned.

You’re asking fair questions under the topic, but be conscious of unfair conclusions and comments.

'Wiz', thank you for providing more info and for the respectful way you raise caution.

[Demonland 71,094]

 

[TheWiz 765]

13 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Firstly, I wasn't speculating I was asking a question.  If you disagree with a poster insulting that poster is not the way to voice it.  This is:

'Wiz', thank you for providing more info and for the respectful way you raise caution.

Not a problem Luci - it was a fair question! I’ve always had a lot of respect for your posts. 

[Guest]

Gotta preface this with the stock standard “if the allegations are true” so… if the allegations are true, this is so much worse than many might think it was, and still is. From the point of view of someone who’s just had some old wounds reopened by this: I know only too well the unbearable pain of losing a baby (twice). But in my case, Nature/the Universe/whoever/ whatever decided this little person was not meant to live for whatever reason.

I can’t begin to imagine what it must be like to have been forced to kill (let’s not mince words) your own unborn child. It’s unconscionable. For this reason alone, there’s simply no way this can be diluted and then eventually forgotten about. 

Postface: this has nothing to do with ProLife/ProChoice. 

[Cam Schwab's Whiteboard 209]

I'm glad Whateley likened this to the Stolen Generation. As I said yesterday, that was the imagery I had whilst reading the article. 

Robinson was Robinson, unfortunately. The continual claims of, "I just hope this isn't true" ignores, or at least fails to recognise, the realities of Australian society. It wasn't long ago that Adam Goodes was booed week after week, Eddie talking about King Kong, and Betts on the Adelaide camp. Our own Kozzie hears these attitudes every time he plays a good game. And that's just within the AFL industry itself. We have stories in this very thread speaking to terrible and ongoing experiences of racism.

Removing agency from someone, particularly 'for their own good' as their race renders them incapable of knowing what's best and doing what's right is as bad as it gets. As a football community, it is as much on the fans to ensure this is not washed away or minimised through legal technicalities. 

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Cam Schwab's Whiteboard

[forever demons 2,216]

52 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

Gotta preface this with the stock standard “if the allegations are true” so… if the allegations are true, this is so much worse than many might think it was, and still is. From the point of view of someone who’s just had some old wounds reopened by this: I know only too well the unbearable pain of losing a baby (twice). But in my case, Nature/the Universe/whoever/ whatever decided this little person was not meant to live for whatever reason.

I can’t begin to imagine what it must be like to have been forced to kill (let’s not mince words) your own unborn child. It’s unconscionable. For this reason alone, there’s simply no way this can be diluted and then eventually forgotten about. 

Postface: this has nothing to do with ProLife/ProChoice. 

So sorry WCW

[old dee 23,675]

11 hours ago, McQueen said:

I’ve lost my glasses old mate and I can barely read so sorry I’ll reply tomorrow

 

(Thanks Siri)

Oh hell a very sad state of affairs, good luck with the search.

[old dee 23,675]

1 hour ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Firstly, I wasn't speculating I was asking a question.  If you disagree with a poster insulting that poster is not the way to voice it.  This is:

'Wiz', thank you for providing more info and for the respectful way you raise caution.

This morning I have joined the caution brigade. Right now both x hawks coaches have been hung out to dry. One is already fighting back. 

[Demonland 71,094]

 

[Redleg 40,772]

2 hours ago, DEE fence said:

. My father who was my hero, was an utter racist(hard to acknowledge), and yet none of his five sons continued that hate, which gives me huge optimism for Australia.  

 

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:From the point of view of someone who’s just had some old wounds reopened by this: I know only too well the unbearable pain of losing a baby (twice). But in my case, Nature/the Universe/whoever/ whatever decided this little person was not meant to live for whatever reason. 

These are very brave posts from WCW and DEEfence and they should be commended for sharing such private and painful memories.

The world must get better and the good must lead the way.

[Redleg 40,772]

1 hour ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

2 hours ago, DEE fence said:

My father who was my hero, was an utter racist(hard to acknowledge), and yet none of his five sons continued that hate, which gives me huge optimism for Australia.  @Neitz the Great I have your back.

 

From the point of view of someone who’s just had some old wounds reopened by this: I know only too well the unbearable pain of losing a baby (twice). But in my case, Nature/the Universe/whoever/ whatever decided this little person was not meant to live for whatever reason.

I can’t begin to imagine what it must be like to have been forced to kill (let’s not mince words) your own unborn child. It’s unconscionable. For this reason alone, there’s simply no way this can be diluted and then eventually forgotten about. 

Postface: this has nothing to do with ProLife/ProChoice. 

These are very brave posts by WCW and DEEfence and they should be commended for sharing very private and painful memories.

The world must get better and the good will lead the way.

PS can a mod fix this post please to show both posts I am referring to.

Edited September 21, 2022 by Redleg

[Mr Steve 3,820]

Stuart Fox-- would that be the same Stuart Fox that we chased hard to get a few years back. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

11 hours ago, TheWiz said:

Luci, the Neeld/Davey allegations were completely false. Nothing was leaked. From memory Davey refuted this immediately once the one article was published and he was quite upset at the allegations.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/false-race-claim-leaves-afl-red-faced-as-davey-denies-involvement-20120403-1wb4j.html

Austin left after his fathers passing and his role in his community changed. Jurrah’s circumstances are well documented. It was good seeing him at Alice Springs supporting the club where no ill will was mentioned.

You’re asking fair questions under the topic, but be conscious of unfair conclusions and comments.

Well done TW.  This is also evidence of what a whipping boy this club has been over many decades and that it isn't just a media thing it runs deep (or did so) within AFL halls.  Imagine if it was Eddie, Colliwobbles and Malthouse on the receiving end!

Remember that even after this, he was allowed to remain in the same position.  Effectively a slap across the wrist.  And did so for ANOTHER 4 YEARS until he left in 2016 on his own terms for a cushie Govt role. 

Even after departing he was allowed to remain on his own Indegenous Advisory Committee which he himself set up the year before.

Was also annointed and given the tick of approval by Gil as he departed.  They're all the same and all on the same massive gravy train.  God forbid anyone gets in the road of that!...

..."the Commission and clubs wish him well in his new role," CEO Gillon McLachlan said.

"I would like to personally acknowledge Jason’s leadership and the very positive impact he has had on our approach to indigenous and multicultural affairs." (Courtesy afl.com.au Nathan Schmook on Jan 28, 2016)

Edited September 22, 2022 by Demon Dynasty

[Jibroni 4,986]

Im hoping the outcome from all this is the issue of one sided disclosure needs to stop, not just in football.

Too many innocent lives across numerous areas of society have been destroyed by accusations which were later disproved. The strictest of confidentiality should be legally enforceable until all parties have been given their rights of due process before any public disclosure is made. The alleged 'victims' are protected by anonymity whilst the accused are publicly named, im not sure how that is fair process?

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 hour ago, Jibroni said:

Im hoping the outcome from all this is the issue of one sided disclosure needs to stop, not just in football.

Too many innocent lives across numerous areas of society have been destroyed by accusations which were later disproved. The strictest of confidentiality should be legally enforceable until all parties have been given their rights of due process before any public disclosure is made. The alleged 'victims' are protected by anonymity whilst the accused are publicly named, im not sure how that is fair process?

Typically one sided take from you.

The other side of the coin is just as bad, if not worse, where victims have either not been heard, not been believed or not even spoken out due to those first two factors. That's what systemic racism does.

It's not as black and white as you want to make it.

[ResilientDeesFan 0]

Firstly, you cannot make those stories up and they are truly disgusting.

Secondly, the only clubs affected now by this are Lions and North.

Should Hawks be allowed to draft or trade in players? I understand that there needs to be a process but they could get ahead and trade out picks for next year when a sanction may happen? 

Should Hawks take the high ground and say they will not trade players / picks etc until the AFL report is done?

Should all ex Hawks staff etc be stood down? even Bruce, Yze etc 

This is a very deep rabbit hole.