POSTGAME: SF vs Brisbane

[Webber 10,650]

For all of you who reckon it’s about game plan, tactics, method, personnel, unwarranted faith in certain players, etc, please explain why our first halves from round 11 onward were premiership standard, and our second halves for the same period, 16th in the AFL. It’s just not logical to blame things that are proven to work for 2 quarters, which if applied equally for the other 2 quarters, would have put us in the Grand Final no doubt. There’s only ONE sensible question to be answered. Just one. Why were our first halves so gruesomely unsustainable from round 11 onwards? 

[rpfc 29,005]

1 minute ago, Webber said:

For all of you who reckon it’s about game plan, tactics, method, personnel, unwarranted faith in certain players, etc, please explain why our first halves from round 11 onward were premiership standard, and our second halves for the same period, 16th in the AFL. It’s just not logical to blame things that are proven to work for 2 quarters, which if applied equally for the other 2 quarters, would have put us in the Grand Final no doubt. There’s only ONE sensible question to be answered. Just one. Why were our first halves so gruesomely unsustainable from round 11 onwards? 

I don’t think we set the world on fire in the first two and a half months either in second halves. We played some bad teams and mostly only played a good quarter. Some of them we won on reputation before the game started.

[IRW 1,388]

2 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Whatever they were told/thought/ believed that's all fine but keep that under your hat and internalise it.  It shouldn't be a regular public thing.

And what was that wolf of wall street crappa.  Complete BS.  That's all fake bravado.  Just get on with things and stick with the Reverend's "when all is said and done" mantra.  Was the best message in 2021 AND it was mostly internalised and kept in house!

" IN HOUSE " and released AFTER the event...there you have it.

Wall to wall stupid pr....while we're at it never let Oliver near  reporters before important moments.

AFTER the Brownlow maybe.. although he won't win it

[dazzledavey36 56,240]

 

[Lucifers Hero 40,695]

19 minutes ago, Webber said:

For all of you who reckon it’s about game plan, tactics, method, personnel, unwarranted faith in certain players, etc, please explain why our first halves from round 11 onward were premiership standard, and our second halves for the same period, 16th in the AFL. It’s just not logical to blame things that are proven to work for 2 quarters, which if applied equally for the other 2 quarters, would have put us in the Grand Final no doubt. There’s only ONE sensible question to be answered. Just one. Why were our first halves so gruesomely unsustainable from round 11 onwards? 

sorry, can't do cryptic questions this morning...

...and that ONE sensible answer is...?

[1964_2 2,357]

22 minutes ago, Webber said:

For all of you who reckon it’s about game plan, tactics, method, personnel, unwarranted faith in certain players, etc, please explain why our first halves from round 11 onward were premiership standard, and our second halves for the same period, 16th in the AFL. It’s just not logical to blame things that are proven to work for 2 quarters, which if applied equally for the other 2 quarters, would have put us in the Grand Final no doubt. There’s only ONE sensible question to be answered. Just one. Why were our first halves so gruesomely unsustainable from round 11 onwards? 

Most likely a bit of everything you mentioned. 

It could be that the game style is just not sustainable for 4 quarters. Whether we know or find out is not what is important. Is just important that the FD is confident that they know why and they are not scared to make the required changes to fix it. 

One positive of bombing out in straight sets, is it hopefully provides a platform for change and improvement rather than the dangerous complacency and stubborn views we have witnessed for the past couple of months. 
 

[DemonWA 3,941]

[Macca 17,121]

37 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

2 points that I imagine the FD would provide when attempting to justify why they have persisted with a clearly broken method.

 

a) the lack of a CHF does open up a greater risk of turnover goals if we play more direct. It also obviously provides challenges with the kick to the pocket method

b) maybe we don’t have enough players with the smarts and foot skills that Syd and Geel do, to consistently play the more attacking game style through the corridor

 

Now that the season is over, it is time to take the following steps

a) Internally acknowledge the “method” is broken

b) identify what types of players we need to switch to a more efficient game style (method). Both current players in different positions, and drafting/trading for others

c) Identify exactly why the 2nd half fade-outs occurred and implement a plan to fix it. 

d) Spend the pre-season integrating and training up the players in their new roles. Ie Does Smith train as a back, Petty forward or vice versa? 

Be no break for the FD I assume. They need to get on top of this asap, or otherwise straight sets will lead into even bigger problems next year. 

 

You make some very good points, 64

With the forward 50 entries, regardless of the personnel, indirect footy wasn't going to win the GF this season

And it was obvious from early in the season that the bombing to the pocket was something that the better teams had basically abandoned (not totally, but not a go-to method)

So we didn't adapt and then went out in straight sets

We had to risk turning the ball over (in the hot spot) and then back our defensive structures to repel a turnover

After all, we were the reigning premier so why worry when our all-over defensive pressure is/was regarded as the best

Nothing ventured, nothing gained

[Webber 10,650]

19 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

sorry, can't do cryptic questions this morning...

...and that ONE sensible answer is...?

No idea. It’s the question that’s sensible, the answer I suspect is more complex. 

[Macca 17,121]

As good as our midfield is, their actual disposal skills and decision making is not A Grade (as a collective)

We get a lot of the ball and our contested work is terrific but our use of the ball heading towards goal is not great (our Fab 4 isn't Black, Voss, Lappin & Akermanis)

Resulting in a number of inconsequential inside 50 entries.  Often the ball ends up going out of bounds around the flank or pocket

Add in forward line defensive pressure that has gone off the boil along with the other teams knowing exactly what we are doing and you are obviously going to have issues

Our deep forwards aren't going to stand a chance with that scenario

Edited September 10, 2022 by Macca

[Vineytime 855]

Jake Lever what an absolute liability in that last qtr, coughed up 3 goals…

Riv, Salo not much better. 
 

 

[Wodjathefirst 2,667]

Not an excuse but…….. had we kicked straight and actually got goals rather than behinds.  Not only in this game but quite a few others.

(Our first quarter domination in last night’s game was not reflected on the scoreboard, and boy did we pay the price for this later on. Shame really)

[Fork 'em 7,052]

13 hours ago, mo64 said:

Rubbish. It's the game plan. Do you think the key forwards like leading into the pocket, or having the ball kicked on their head?

But we need mid sized forwards who do more than ANB, Spargo and Sparrow.

100%
Not only that.
We wait for the pocket to fill up with players (both ours and theirs) before they do get it dumped on their heads.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Fork 'em

[Dr. Gonzo 24,467]

54 minutes ago, Webber said:

For all of you who reckon it’s about game plan, tactics, method, personnel, unwarranted faith in certain players, etc, please explain why our first halves from round 11 onward were premiership standard, and our second halves for the same period, 16th in the AFL. It’s just not logical to blame things that are proven to work for 2 quarters, which if applied equally for the other 2 quarters, would have put us in the Grand Final no doubt. There’s only ONE sensible question to be answered. Just one. Why were our first halves so gruesomely unsustainable from round 11 onwards? 

2nd to this why did we not capitalise on our first half dominance? Many games, including last night, we absolutely dominated the first 1-2 quarters without putting that on the scoreboard. Game plan, personnel, execution? Mix of all 3?

[Mincho Mania 530]

12 hours ago, 1964_2 said:

More than happy to put this on the line. It is an absolutely horrific coaching performance for this list to go out in straight sets!! No other way to view it.

hypothetical, what if Bartlett wanted goody gone for various reasons last year, and Bartlett was correct. But after a 3-4-0 start, The other fence sitting board members ditched Bartlett, and decided To back goody. Goody pulls his head in, gives power to other smarter people such as Yze. But then after winning the flag, ego comes back into play and it’s all about him? 

Just some food for thought. 

More than happy to put on the record my views that the biggest priority for the MFC should be signing up Yze, and not goody. Know most of you will disagree, but really couldn’t give a stuff. Especially given how wrong most of your views have been.

 

I mentioned in the game thread maybe Goody should put in for the Essendon job

[Deemania since 56 6,804]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

We threw the game away with indirect football in the first half

Brisbane were shell-shocked and had no answers but we persisted with boundary line attacks and even worse, bombing it in a haphazard way to the pockets

We showed no daring, took no risks and paid a heavy price by letting them back in it

Probably the worst loss I can ever remember in terms of a superior side being beaten by an inferior side

Poor coaching and our players are no better.  Programmed with inneficient methods with our inside 50 entries.  Unable to think for themselves

We went with the GF team of last year and it didn't work.  To not make a PF with this team is a massive fail

Stafford can go, he's not up to it.  Goodwin needs a rocket as well.  This team is capable of blowing teams away (we've seen it) but we persist with not using the corridor.  Why?

Meanwhile, the other good teams do use the corridor.  Makes no sense as to why we don't

From the corridor we hit the flanks or pockets.  It's garbage football

We lost 8 of our last 14 games. Teams with that sort of record are usually down the other end of the ladder

 

Our team has no surprises left. Then we further hamper our rare opportunities by forcing 'non-team' (ie: individual) efforts from the few capable of their 'declining, (for one reason or the other) abilities'. In the end, the necessary workload is not shared; instead, we have an exhausted array of great players up and down the field who rightly cannot sustain the effort across the third and fourth quarters. This is not an opportunity for abstract and unspecific 'learnings' as so frequently deferred to, it is an opportunity to to enact alternatives on a regular basis.

[DeeZee 7,495]

Were the second half fade outs , which ultimately cost us our year, lack of fitness or mental attitude?

We couldn’t keep up with Brisbane’s run and spread in that second half and it was clearly visible who was working harder.

Edited September 10, 2022 by DeeZee

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, Mincho Mania said:

I mentioned in the game thread maybe Goody should put in for the Essendon job

They asked the question. Won't happen.

[Fork 'em 7,052]

10 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

 Game plan, personnel, execution? Mix of all 3?

Mix of all 3.
Just terrible F50 entries, poor shot conversion and the backs panic when it's coming in low and fast.
The opposition also learnt that if they kept the pressure on ... We'd crumble.
And we crumbled mentally worst in the last 2 games proven by the stupid late game frees and 50's.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Fork 'em

[Deemania since 56 6,804]

13 hours ago, bing181 said:

Speak for yourself.

I did. It seems that as the topic went further, many other DL contributors felt what I was feeling and thought what I was thinking, and responded with supportive comment or additional yet related points of fair discussion. 

[Wodjathefirst 2,667]

And after this post I’m signing off until next year.  Make no mistake, I was gutted by the last two finals results and frustrated by most of the year.  I reckon I only saw about three games where we played to the standard I’d expect of us. 
Don’t ask me why but I still back the players , coaches and  support staff, in fact the whole club.  I have high hopes and expectations for next year. Bring it on.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,467]

1 minute ago, Fork 'em said:

Mix of all 3.
Just terrible F50 entries, poor shot conversion and the backs panic when it's coming in low and fast.
The opposition also learnt that if they kept the pressure on ... We'd fold.

I think execution is a big part of it but is it also the gameplan which makes the execution difficult? We had a few relatively easy chances go begging so I think with some cleaner execution we would've put Brisbane away by half time (similar to the Collingwood game several weeks ago).

[Fork 'em 7,052]

Just now, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think execution is a big part of it but is it also the gameplan which makes the execution difficult? We had a few relatively easy chances go begging so I think with some cleaner execution we would've put Brisbane away by half time (similar to the Collingwood game several weeks ago).

Comes to your personnel/execution.
We have bugger all players who can actually kick.
Which is why they all go the long bomb dump kick.
Less pressure than the hit up.

[Pennant St Dee 13,428]

34 minutes ago, Vineytime said:

Jake Lever what an absolute liability in that last qtr, coughed up 3 goals…

Riv, Salo not much better. 
 

 

Sometimes you have to rob Peter to pay Paul.

We moved Petty forward to take contested grabs or bring the ball to ground. We pushed one up to the back of contested stoppages, which exposed Lever to being accountable.

It was real roll the dice stuff, we can point to Petty kicking a goal and creating another but we can’t ignore it creates issues the other way especially to the chaos kick from clearances. The coaches would have been aware of the risks

[Macca 17,121]

.

Edited September 10, 2022 by Macca