Our kick out strategy

[Sydee]

May kicks long to exactly the same spot - same side 95% of kick ins 

It is painfully predictable and frankly seemed hopelessly ineffective last night

What are others thoughts on this - I get there are advantages for our players setting up a certain way but surely there needs to be some level of flexibility
 

[whatwhat say what]

worked fine in the first 10 weeks

we are REALLY missing plugger mac

[Nascent]

It's predictable but usually not a major issue when playing on a normal sized oval and not in a sardine can. Our mids just couldn't clear it.

[daisycutter]

1 hour ago, Sydee said:

May kicks long to exactly the same spot - same side 95% of kick ins 

It is painfully predictable and frankly seemed hopelessly ineffective last night

What are others thoughts on this - I get there are advantages for our players setting up a certain way but surely there needs to be some level of flexibility
 

glad you brought this up

has bugged me for a long time and as you said far too predictable 

[dazzledavey36]

2 hours ago, Sydee said:

May kicks long to exactly the same spot - same side 95% of kick ins 

It is painfully predictable and frankly seemed hopelessly ineffective last night

What are others thoughts on this - I get there are advantages for our players setting up a certain way but surely there needs to be some level of flexibility
 

So predictable that Geelong players were already set up on the left side just before May would kick out.

So what did we do? Kick to the same exact spot for Geelong to then out number us around the contests.

Yeah nah awesome work to the brain thrusts sitting in the coaches box.

Edited July 8, 2022 by dazzledavey36

[Redleg]

2 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

worked fine in the first 10 weeks

 

No it didn't.

Just because you win a game doesn't mean everything you do in it is correct, or the best method.

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Redleg

[whatwhat say what]

9 minutes ago, Redleg said:

No it didn't.

Just because you win a game doesn't mean everything you do in it is correct, or the best method.

 

yes it did

but the double-tall target strategy - gawn / jackson plus tmac / brown is not working any more cos plugger ain't there any more

his absence is really noticeable imo

[roy11]

2 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

worked fine in the first 10 weeks

we are REALLY missing plugger mac

Strange career he has had; from the backline to the forward line to potentially heading out the door to a premiership to then being a key missing cog 

[joeboy]

The alternative go to strategy of kicking it short to Salem in a pocket is also so predictable and easy to defend because he has seemingly misplaced his precise kicking and just lobs it slowly to nobody in particular 

At least Hibberd ,Hunt ( when he’s playing) and even Rivers ,take on their opponents.

Though not always successful they DO attempt to break the lines

Edited July 8, 2022 by joeboy

[deelusions from afar]

We've been doing this for years - it surprises me that other clubs haven't tried to exploit this much before.

When Max is your ruckman, it makes sense to kick to him.  But surely we need to get better at capitalising on the spares if a team like Geelong send extra players in to contest with Max?

 

I actually like that Geelong have done this - it is easier for them to do this on a skinny ground like GMHBA and surely we will be ready for it next time.

[Sydee]

My personal view is that May is actually not that great at hitting a target - his disposal by foot is unpredictable and recently this has resulted in not only turnovers but opposition goals 

Personally prefer to see Salem take the kick outs and try to hit a target occasionally rather than just the blind bomb towards the left hand wing 

[poita]

In contrast, I'm not sure that we held up Geelong on any of their kick outs last night. They seemed to be able to stroll to 40 metres without any pressure and then hit up a target near the centre.

[BW511]

May still doesn't appear to be moving all that well in my opinion. Looks very conscious of his body/hammy when he kicks.

I understand why the strategy is the way it is but it's a risky move to sit the ball on Max's head all day, every week. He's copped a lot of knocks to this point in 2022

[JimmyGadson]

26 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

yes it did

but the double-tall target strategy - gawn / jackson plus tmac / brown is not working any more cos plugger ain't there any more

his absence is really noticeable imo

The double target strategy? 

Generally Gawn is on his own for those kick outs and I'd say we rarely kick to two talls unless it happens to be an inside 50 kick. 

You're wrong about the first 10 rounds. Our kickouts are a poor part of our game and to the better sides as others have stated, we struggle to make anything of the long kick to Gawn from May. 

I don't know why we don't at least chip our way to the D50 and then from there go long to a Gawn down the line. At least we're two kicks from the oppo goal and reduces opposition repeat entries. 

Sometimes there are players free that May doesn't even look at and still decides to bomb long to a disadvantage in the air. 

Goodwin trusts our ability to win ground ball too much on that kick out strategy imo. We need some more variety that still compliments the way we want to move the ball though..

Edited July 8, 2022 by JimmyGadson

[Sydee]

4 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

The double target strategy? 

Generally Gawn is on his own for those kick outs and I'd say we rarely kick to two talls unless it happens to be an inside 50 kick. 

You're wrong about the first 10 rounds. Our kickouts are a poor part of our game and to the better sides as others have stated, we struggle to make anything of the long kick to Gawn from May. 

I don't know why we don't at least chip our way to the D50 and then from there go long to a Gawn down the line. At least we're two kicks from the oppo goal and reduces opposition repeat entries. 

Sometimes there are players free that May doesn't even look at and still decides to bomb long to a disadvantage in the air. 

Goodwin trusts our ability to win ground ball too much on that kick out strategy imo. We need some more variety that still compliments the way we want to move the ball though..

That is my impression too 

[BW511]

Its a very defensive strategy

[dees189227]

It has been my biggest bug bear for awhile. I watch other clubs do it well and I always think why can't we do it. 

Steven May was asked on radio why he always kicks the same way out to where Max usually is and he just replied well the ruckman is there and it works. 

Sometimes I think we need to change it up and not become predictable.

That's partly why I enjoyed it when May was out because other players had a different strategy. 

[Red and Bluebeard]

A further issue is that if May is kicking out, it robs us of one of our best marks, especially as our 'strategy' seems to be to kick it to a pack. I don't understand why he is the preferred kicker compared to Salem or Hibberd. May kicking out means that he is back in his 'goalkeeper' spot if there is a turnover, but that is the wrong way to think about moving the ball out of our D50.

 

[Redleg]

17 minutes ago, Red and Bluebeard said:

A further issue is that if May is kicking out, it robs us of one of our best marks, especially as our 'strategy' seems to be to kick it to a pack. I don't understand why he is the preferred kicker compared to Salem or Hibberd. May kicking out means that he is back in his 'goalkeeper' spot if there is a turnover, but that is the wrong way to think about moving the ball out of our D50.

 

But if May kicks out to the left and it returns quickly, he is back there ready to do it again.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Redleg

[Jumping Jack Clennett]

I'd like to know how many times Gawny has marked May's kick-in.  I'd say very few.

[Red and Bluebeard]

6 minutes ago, Redleg said:

But if May kicks out to the left and it returns quickly, he is back there ready to do it again.

True. But we should be thinking about how to make sure it doesn't come back quickly!

[layzie]

Would just be nice to try something different every now and then. Short kick down the middle, quick hand off and run through the corridor every do often, I dunno just something different.

[Redleg]

28 minutes ago, Red and Bluebeard said:

True. But we should be thinking about how to make sure it doesn't come back quickly!

Joke meter turned off R & B?

I was joking.

[george_on_the_outer]

This strategy is all about percentages. See Moneyball again....

While it is frustrating to watch, the coaches and statisticians have worked out that the ball 60m away from the goal, close to the boundary will probably produce a stoppage or boundary throw in more times than not.  i.e. the opposition don't score from this position.  We then expect our stoppage skills will win the ball...more times than not.  It is rare that a mark is achieved, and this is just a bonus if it happens. 

Other teams may use short kicks initially, but they are looking for the same thing further up the ground.  Short kicks are not 100% guaranteed.  When they fail ( not often) it results in opposition scores, usually the 6 point variety. 

Up the middle puts the ball in a dangerous position to counter, particularly if punched straight forward into the 50m area, which oppositions are trained to do if this is employed.

Same reason players are directed to kick to pockets in the forward line.  It is about percentages and stopping the opposition gaining access to the corridor.  More often results in boundary throw in and the stoppage argument comes to the fore again. 

[DeeSpencer]

For some reason I can't seem to link images but whatever.

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With 7:13 minutes left and the game still alive May just completely ignores Petty by himself in the corridor with no defender anywhere near him - the Cats players even see him and are worried about it. That's crazy to me. You've got a great mark in Petty and a regulation kick for an AFL player. Petty can mark 40m out and can then go anywhere he wants with the ball.

That kind of decision making all over the ground (not just kick outs) is really killing us right now. We have to use the space teams are letting us have to move the ball.