Jump to content

  • Podcast:      

  • Podcast:     

In Season - Loading/Periodisation: Put your conjecture here.



Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

I'm in the camp that we load throughout the season at different times, and that it directly influences performance. I am not saying it is the ONLY thing influencing.

Anyway, it appears it's a polarising topic.

Here is something I just googled, which confirms my view (and what I have been told from someone who would know0 that the wider AFL system (particularly those in finals contention, ramp up their training). I happily accept that I search for info that confirms my beliefs, and refute anything that disproves it on this particular topic.

Maybe semantics are important - loading (up training), volume vs intensity,  development blocks, etc etc...

Whatever we call it, and however we interpret what we call it, nonetheless, there are still fluctuations in the intensity and volume of training during the season.

 

This is on a Brisbane Lions thread in 2020.

This last 3-4 weeks have been pure magic for our teams development because it is an almost perfectly designed training block. All training improvements come from progressive overload. Start with x load, increase by 10% for a number of sessions then pull back and rest to allow the muscles/aerobic/ to develop. This diagram shows the process. Overload can be by intensity or volume (eg gym = increase weight or reps) and applies across weeks, months, seasons...

During a season it looks different - it's maintenance and recovery, but finals teams include additional development block prior to September. Playing finals with their increased intensity also acts as a overload training block.

Up until the giants game we were cruising in normal season recovery/maintenance mode, then the dramatic increase the volume acts as progressive overload. Other teams have also had the increase in volume but longer breaks, byes and swapping more players means the overload is not as effective for some teams.

It is one of the reason we need a strong seconds competition and why our seconds players are struggling once they get a game - they have been left behind.

This week rest is supercritical, then we will see a big uplift in our performance. As long as injuries don't escalate this season is only going to get better for u
s.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Screen Shot 2022-06-07 at 08.33.59.png

Edited by Engorged Onion
  • Like 7
  • Thanks 3
  • Love 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Players and coaches from teams that lock in finals early have openly talked about heavy training periods done in season for many, many years.  Sometimes they directly call it "loading", other times they call it "heavy training blocks".  It's definitely no secret.

 

It is a luxury that teams that bank wins early have and is why teams that have some poor performancess in the middle stages of the year come out and smash teams in finals that have had to fight all the way just to make finals.  Flirting with form comes with risk, as does the increased risk of injury, but if you are in it to win the major prize, not just make up the numbers in September, it is well worth the risk.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites


6 minutes ago, Vipercrunch said:

 

It is a luxury that teams that bank wins early have and is why teams that have some poor performancess in the middle stages of the year come out and smash teams in finals that have had to fight all the way just to make finals.  

It is also a factor (not the only one obviously, talent being thesin one) why so many teams who finish 5-8 hit the wall in finals and if they make it through the first week (when they play teams with similar preparations) get smashed the following week, like esendon ladt year, who were level at half time before completed running out of gas in the second half and barely scoring).

 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is all well and good - and encouragingly, to this point in the season, our form line is largely mirroring 2021.

But we have been beaten by fellow top 4 contenders the last 2 weeks - surely they would be following a similar training regime?

Clearly, form and fitness are intrinsically linked, but for a number of key players - namely Brown, Jackson, Lever, ANB and Tomlinson - the eye test says their lack of impact is more due to the former than the latter. 

No cause for alarm at this stage IMO - but we no longer have the luxury of margin for error. With Freo and Brisbane breathing down our necks, falling out of the top 2 could well cost us a shot at a flag.

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Going on what you posted in the other thread about our form slump in 2021 @binman - do you or anyone else have an idea behind the mechanics/philosophy of bringing the 'potential' ramped up training block, in what appears to be around a month earlier than last year.

Is that due to

  • playing our last game (GF) a month and a bit after most other clubs, thus, limited rehab/recovery?
  • what does that late match(es) mean for the preseason block of training and how it informs our training for the rest of the year?
  • our younger players (u23's? (arbitrary age)) still acclimating their bodies to the demands of training and game loads /increase in fatigue comparably to exposed training loads over 5+ seasons.

any other thoughts are welcomed.

Edited by Engorged Onion
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The holy grail of fitness and form coming together at the same time is not sustainable for long periods of time.

Absolutely no doubt that AFL clubs mix up loads depending on periods of the season.

Fitness and motivation roll along in peaks and troughs throughout a season, we have been 'up' for a long time, a lull was inevitable.

 

What matters is that the players are getting the work done now to make sure that magical form/fitness period is late September.

I'll also add, we have had a very disrupted start to 2022. Continuity has been a real problem with lots of injuries

  • Like 8
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Going on what you posted in the other thread about our form slump in 2021 @binman - do you or anyone else have an idea behind the mechanics/philosophy of bringing the 'potential' ramped up training block, in what appears to be around a month earlier than last year.

Is that due to

  • playing our last game (GF) a month and a bit after most other clubs, thus, limited rehab/recovery?
  • what does that late match(es) mean for the preseason block of training and how it informs our training for the rest of the year?

any other thoughts are welcomed.

Perhaps because of our shortened preseason this time round and because we started 10-0, the fitness staff are squeezing in an extra 4-5 week loading block in?

The conjecture is fun, but hopefully one day we get to read all about what's actually going on in 5 time premiership coach, Simon Goodwins memoirs. 

  • Thanks 1
  • Haha 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Going on what you posted in the other thread about our form slump in 2021 @binman - do you or anyone else have an idea behind the mechanics/philosophy of bringing the 'potential' ramped up training block, in what appears to be around a month earlier than last year.

Is that due to

  • playing our last game (GF) a month and a bit after most other clubs, thus, limited rehab/recovery?
  • what does that late match(es) mean for the preseason block of training and how it informs our training for the rest of the year?
  • our younger players (u23) still acclimating their bodies to the demands of training and game loads.

any other thoughts are welcomed.

I think the shorter pre-season would have played a huge role in where we are currently at.

Started the year fitter (higher up the peak) due to less rest, dropping off a month earlier and starting the progression again, a month earlier. Will be fascinating to see whether we can time this year as well as last year. I would expect maybe a heavy load now and possibly another period a few weeks out from finals - provided we are in the right position with games won

 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


I don't think we are loading yet. I don't think we started loading last year until the bye, and as I've said before, this time last year we were knocking off Brisbane and the Dogs, not slumping. We slumped post-bye.

I think it's as simple as I juries and illness taking a toll, which we didn't have last year. We had a dream run, with no injuries to key players. This year, Salem, Lever, Tmac and to an extent Gawn have all had injuries, while Trac and others have been sick, whether they missed games or not.

Combine that with teams coming at us as the Champs, and teams always looking slow when they lose, and I think it's the simpler explanation. 

  • Like 6
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Mickey said:

I don't think we are loading yet. I don't think we started loading last year until the bye, and as I've said before, this time last year we were knocking off Brisbane and the Dogs, not slumping. We slumped post-bye.

I think it's as simple as I juries and illness taking a toll, which we didn't have last year. We had a dream run, with no injuries to key players. This year, Salem, Lever, Tmac and to an extent Gawn have all had injuries, while Trac and others have been sick, whether they missed games or not.

Combine that with teams coming at us as the Champs, and teams always looking slow when they lose, and I think it's the simpler explanation. 

Either side of our wins against the Dogs and the Lions were losses to Adelaide and Collingwood though which are very hard to explain.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Vipercrunch said:

Either side of our wins against the Dogs and the Lions were losses to Adelaide and Collingwood though which are very hard to explain.

Not really. Adelaide was 100% kicking inefficiency. 14.11 to 15.6 and we lost by a point. And Collingwood got up for Bucks' last game.

Plus it was QB. It's their GF after all 😂

  • Haha 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Binman's theory is just that. 

I'm not sure anyone with a background in exercise science would agree with it. 

I have a little knowledge but to me it's far too early for any form of loading. To this point we'd be managing all levels of fitness. We have a bye coming up and then another 10 weeks of games before finals so any form of tapering/loading now doesn't make sense to me. 

Edited by JimmyGadson
  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Our skills have been noticeably poor the last couple of weeks, that happens when players are fatigued.

It also happens when players have been in and out of the team through injury/illness. And when other teams ramp up the pressure.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Vipercrunch said:

Either side of our wins against the Dogs and the Lions were losses to Adelaide and Collingwood though which are very hard to explain.

Adelaide:  umpire made a mistake in the dying seconds of the game, admitted to by the AFL.

Collingwood:  Buckley's last game as coache so they were up and about. 

Every chance that in 2021 we started a 3 week training block pre the Coll game ie round 12 (where we are now in 2021)  through the bye and to round 15.  Partly in lieu of no game in the bye week.  That would be consistent with what Max said post bye last year.

I think it of it as a mini-preseason rather than something mysterious like 'loading'.

 

Not directly related to your post but whether it is called 'loading', 'extra blocks of training, mini preseason or whatever no one has so far shown why that should or does cause losses.

fwiw we did extra training during the first finals bye. 

  • Thinking 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Mickey said:

It also happens when players have been in and out of the team through injury/illness. And when other teams ramp up the pressure.

For sure, but I was making the comment in the context of your comment that we weren't loading when we lost to Adelaide last year because we lost due to kicking inefficiency.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Binman's theory is just that. 

I'm not sure anyone with a background in exercise science would agree with it. 

I have a little knowledge but to me it's far too early for any form of loading. To this point we'd be managing all levels of fitness. We have a bye coming up and then another 10 weeks of games before finals so any form of tapering/loading now doesn't make sense to me. 

As per the graphs above though, it's not just one load up then taper.  It works so much better if there can be several cycles.  I'm just a hack runner, but I do use training programs and the longer ones all have multiple load then taper cycles that slowly build you up to race day.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


7 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Our skills have been noticeably poor the last couple of weeks, that happens when players are fatigued.

Fatigue could be due to illness, injury, post covid, step up to AFL when players missing.  5 players coming back from injury.

Poor skills could be due to opp pressure and replacement players not having the skills or knowing the system as well as those replaced.

For the fatigue of rounds 11 and 12 we would have had to start loading around weeks 9 and 10 which would be bizarre given that is when players had covid . 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Lucifers Hero said:

Fatigue could be due to illness, injury, post covid, step up to AFL when players missing.  5 players coming back from injury.

100%, which is why this thread will go round and round in circles as no one at this stage knows the factual answer.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Not directly related to your post but whether it is called 'loading', 'extra blocks of training, mini preseason or whatever no one has so far shown why that should or does cause losses.

 

Loading causes the players to fatigue quicker and fatigue causes skill errors and the loss of ability to cover the ground which drastically affects our defensive structure and our ability to score on the turnover.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

For sure, but I was making the comment in the context of your comment that we weren't loading when we lost to Adelaide last year because we lost due to kicking inefficiency.

Sure, I was thinking the last few weeks where our skills have seemingly been poor.

I also think, checking the stats again, that the Adelaide game was actually a classic melbourne goal kicking performance. It's always been an issue, and our kicking efficiency in general was ok (70%). This year we average 73%, while our goal kicking is 50% (and was last year for the whole year).

  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Vipercrunch said:

Loading causes the players to fatigue quicker and fatigue causes skill errors and the loss of ability to cover the ground which drastically affects our defensive structure and our ability to score on the turnover.

That is probably true but there are so many other facts staring us in the face, that we know have affected our players over the last month that I find attributing the losses to 'loading' a tenuous link. 

And what no-one has explained yet is why 'loading', at any time should lead to losses at all. 

Edited by Lucifers Hero
  • Like 1
  • Thinking 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    BLUE VIBE AT IKON by Meggs

    It was such a nice vibe at Ikon on Friday night.     Princes Park looked in excellent condition, a relaxed but modest crowd and President Kate Roffey and CEO Gary Pert in attendance, greeting fans and shaking hands.     It was an evening with little to complain about for Dees supporters, save for some drizzling rain, a few missed scoring opportunities and the fact that the Dees as raging favourites duly took the four points.   Carlton was always going to struggle to cover

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    BLUES AWAY by Meggs

    This Round 5 clash against the Blues at Princes Park (officially known as Ikon Park) is a great chance for the Dees to bounce back to the winning circle following our top-of-the-table loss to Brisbane last week.     Carlton will be missing several key players with the pundits calling 10 to nil.  Raging favouritism is never a comfortable thing for Melbourne supporters but we simply must deliver on Friday night.   History has seen these teams play four times since 2017 with the Dee

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    LIONS POUNCE by Meggs

    Early Sunday afternoon Meggs was coffeeing in Mornington and witnessing hail, thunder, lightning, rain, wind and feeling the freezing temperatures and knowing all these elements were heading towards Casey Fields.  Oh dear.  The Brisbane coach had said during the week that he wanted the game moved to Marvel because “if you're going to have two of the better teams in the comp playing, (it warrants) a venue and deck that suits the occasion”.  However, Casey Fields was uncharacteristi

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    RAINING PREMIERS by KC from Casey

    If the threatening dark grey skies that loomed above Ikon Park before the VFL Grand Final didn’t provide a sufficiently inhospitable reception for our visitors from sunny Queensland, the rains that bucketed down after quarter time certainly did. For years, the Casey Demons have welcomed opposing teams at their home fortress with rain, hail, wind and frosty conditions and it was just Southport’s luck that they met those conditions head on in the VFL’s big dance. They suited Casey’s skillful

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    PRIDE OF VICTORIA by KC from Casey

    When Casey Demons coach Mark Corrigan talks about his charges putting their “best foot forward” on Sunday when they take on the Southport Sharks in the 2022 VFL Grand Final, it’s a signal that his team is on a mission not only for themselves but in  the name of their forebears, the Springvale Scorpions, and indeed for the pride and honour of the entire State of Victoria. The VFL club now known as the Casey Demons last won a premiership flag under the name of the Springvale Scorpions but tha

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    NARRM AT HOME by Meggs

    For the fourth consecutive week, and the second week as the mighty Narrm, we take on a Top 8 team. Could this match be a preview of the Season 7 Grand Final?   Our opponents this week, Brisbane, stand undefeated atop the AFLW ladder after slaying the struggling Freo, and the unrated Giants and Gold Coast.  After amassing 225 points for and only 56 against, for a percentage of 401.8%, the pundits are claiming the Lions have the best attack the competition has ever seen.   Brisbane

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews

    CHANGES 2022 by The Oracle

    Part 1: The year we stood still (or did we?).  Premiership coach David Parkin who  coincidentally turned 80 yesterday, famously used to say that even a premiership team needs to bring at least five new players into the fold in order to advance from year to year and therefore, if this adage remains true, then the Melbourne Football Club really did stand still in 2022.  Of the players recruited after the club’s premiership in September, 2021, only Luke Dunstan (5 games) managed to provid

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Special Features

    NARRM BLITZES EARLY by Meggs

    The last time we played the Saints, Pride Round 3 January 2022, it was an arm wrestle for 3 quarters and a Demons highlights package for 1 quarter. Oddly familiar was our outing to Moorabbin on Sunday, except this week we are Narrm and it’s Indigenous Round.   Our highlights package was contained to a first quarter onslaught. Superior work at stoppages and our mids dominant.  We showcased our run and carry and our dynamic forward line.  With Hore, Zanker twice, Bannan, Fitzsimon and Paxy al

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports

    THE CASEY SHOW by KC from Casey

    The Casey Demons will play in the VFL Grand Final at Ikon Park next Sunday after overturning their final round loss to the Brisbane Lions Reserves and dominating the Preliminary Final to emerge victorious by 51 points.  And while the distance in standards between the AFL and VFL at finals time is admittedly a wide one and the opposition and conditions different, there were a few Demons on display who excelled to the point where one was left to ask whether they could have made the difference

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...