On 20/05/2022 at 16:03, Smokey said:

Dunno about you guys but I’d love to play Carlton in the finals. They look good on paper now but the way they play a second half is just the opposite of what’s required in September. 

The only reason I wouldn’t want to play Carlton in the finals (aside from their strong midfield and Curnow/McKay) is that they (and Richmond) would out number us as a crowd at the MCG and take our home ground advantage and atmosphere away from us a little.

We had the majority of the crowd on our side for each final last year and it surely had a positive effect on us, particularly the GF.

Just a small 1 percenter,  but we’d have the crowd on our side against Brisbane, Freo, St Kilda, Sydney, Geelong and the Dogs in finals. Carlton - no.

Can see Carlton beating us this season but confident we'll do away with them in finals. They remind me more of Melbourne 2018 than Bulldogs 2021. But they are so good in the air. Just don't think they're ready. They give up leads way too easy. But that can be fixed throughout the season. Just can't quite convince myself they're good yet. Even still they might pull a Richmond 2017. They are definitely playing better across 10 rounds than Richmond did in the first 10 rounds of 2017. Could have be a Hawthorn 2008 moment. Melbourne is still recovering from three Richmond flags. Not sure the city can handle a Carlton flag. Truly a scary proposition. 

  On 20/05/2022 at 20:50, Bring-Back-Powell said:

The only reason I wouldn’t want to play Carlton in the finals (aside from their strong midfield and Curnow/McKay) is that they (and Richmond) would out number us as a crowd at the MCG and take our home ground advantage and atmosphere away from us a little.

I'm guessing the crowd would be about 50/50.  The AFL would allocate the same number of tickets to each club for members before sales to the general public.  We would outnumber them in the MCC stand and they would outnumber us in the AFL stand.

Then it depends what the 'neutrals' do.  Can't imagine any self respecting Ess, Rich, Coll fan barracking for Carlton🙄.  As unpalatable as it would be for them barracking for the dees would be the way to go🙃.  Or, they stay home.😐

Carlton are unsound defensively

If we face them in a final we'll beat them. I'm very confident of that

  On 20/05/2022 at 14:11, DubDee said:

Sure Carlton have improved from the bottom 6 side they have been for years but you are getting carried away imo. Aside from Weitering their defence is poor. O Mac would walk into that back line if fit. Their midfield is strong and the twin towers if fit are formidable but we are far superior and they hold no fear for me. 

i do rate Voss though and I like their pressure and game plan 

like my mates keep telling me - it’s ours to lose this year 😬

Their fade outs and some defence on transition is their weakness but I know what I see. 

Consider this - your view is exactly what other supporters said about us this time last year. Most simply refused to believe we'd stand up when it mattered and couldn't see the forest for the trees. 

They're not perfect and have lost their two games to contenders around/above them (whereas we won all ours until Dogs later in year), so it's clearly not a done deal. 

What I do know is I wouldn't want to face them at the G in a final. 

That midfield can beat or break even with ours and whilst May can take McKay or Curnow, I don't have faith that Lever or Petty could adequately hold the other. Then it would come down to how heavily we could score - which can at times be our weakness on bad days

Carlton are still well short of our class across the entire field…they could get us on a bad day when they played their absolute best, but I’m confident we would grind them down with our relentless defence and find enough scores to beat them when it really counted.

Dunno about you guys but I’d love to play Carlton in the finals. They look good on paper now but the way they play a second half is just the opposite of what’s required in September. 

  On 20/05/2022 at 22:58, fr_ap said:

Their fade outs and some defence on transition is their weakness but I know what I see. 

Consider this - your view is exactly what other supporters said about us this time last year. Most simply refused to believe we'd stand up when it mattered and couldn't see the forest for the trees. 

They're not perfect and have lost their two games to contenders around/above them (whereas we won all ours until Dogs later in year), so it's clearly not a done deal. 

What I do know is I wouldn't want to face them at the G in a final. 

That midfield can beat or break even with ours and whilst May can take McKay or Curnow, I don't have faith that Lever or Petty could adequately hold the other. Then it would come down to how heavily we could score - which can at times be our weakness on bad days

Agree on their midfield but you just cannot win the flag with a poor defence. I would love to play the blues in finals 

if they recruit in the off season they could be a problem for sure

  On 20/05/2022 at 12:38, titan_uranus said:

Dogs play the same way and kicked 8 in a row against us in Round 1.

(just playing devil's advocate here)

And still lost 

  On 20/05/2022 at 22:58, fr_ap said:

Their fade outs and some defence on transition is their weakness but I know what I see. 

Consider this - your view is exactly what other supporters said about us this time last year. Most simply refused to believe we'd stand up when it mattered and couldn't see the forest for the trees. 

They're not perfect and have lost their two games to contenders around/above them (whereas we won all ours until Dogs later in year), so it's clearly not a done deal. 

What I do know is I wouldn't want to face them at the G in a final. 

That midfield can beat or break even with ours and whilst May can take McKay or Curnow, I don't have faith that Lever or Petty could adequately hold the other. Then it would come down to how heavily we could score - which can at times be our weakness on bad days

A lot of people are underselling them 'fr'...trying to convince themselves.

...but I agree, Carlton are a difficult preposition.

We will need to bring out 'A' game to beat them.

  On 20/05/2022 at 23:54, rjay said:

A lot of people are underselling them 'fr'...trying to convince themselves.

...but I agree, Carlton are a difficult preposition.

We will need to bring out 'A' game to beat them.

They are Melbourne of 2018. Shiny, fun, attacking. 
Prone to massive fade outs. Concede massive scores. 
We all know how that ended. 

  On 21/05/2022 at 00:14, Jaded No More said:

They are Melbourne of 2018. Shiny, fun, attacking. 
Prone to massive fade outs. Concede massive scores. 
We all know how that ended. 

Carlton's Plateau is fast coming, out of pure luck they have sustained their upward trend. Once they Plateau, like us in 2018, limited success in finals awaits them.

It is clear that the Blues don't play four quarters but neither do we. Each week we play 1 poor quarter at least. The difference is the Blues get out in front with great footy, but then collapse and get overrun. We can give up 8 goals in a row, still find a way to reset, and swamp our opposition late with our fitness and grunt. 

Now I hate the Blues with an incoherent, deep passion so my views on them are always biased, but there is something about them still that makes me hold back from being a believer in their top 4 aspirations, and maybe they will struggle to make 7th or 8th. Their mids are very good but if they lose contested possession count, what is their plan B? Forwards are strong but Dees and Tigers will squeeze so hard defensively that they will look a lot less dangerous. Weitering is a star, love watching him, but he is surrounded by some serious B graders and B- players.  

Sydney should have won that. They needed to convert those chances in the last quarter. Their inability to kick vital goals when they have locked it into their forward half has been an issue for them for 18 months now, and is unresolved. And that Logan McDonald - wow! Scary good.

  On 21/05/2022 at 00:14, Jaded No More said:

They are Melbourne of 2018. Shiny, fun, attacking. 
Prone to massive fade outs. Concede massive scores. 
We all know how that ended. 

They are better than us of 2018...

The area of weakness I see with them is their mids are not yet fully committed to the defensive part of the game and when they break even or worse on contested ball it puts the defence under a lot of pressure and they concede scores.

We bat a lot deeper...but don't underrate them.

  On 21/05/2022 at 00:14, Jaded No More said:

They are Melbourne of 2018. Shiny, fun, attacking. 
Prone to massive fade outs. Concede massive scores. 
We all know how that ended. 

I agree with you about the attacking part. Disagree with you about the rest. Melbourne in 2018 finished 14-8 with a percentage of 131.4%. Should have been 16-6 after throwing away 2 games to Geelong. Carlton are 8-2 with a percentage of 114.6% and arguably should be 4-6 with Western Bulldogs, Hawthorn, Port & Sydney running all over them at the end and missing many many chances. Carlton's percentage is the giveaway and their luck is going to run out at some stage. Having said that, last night's win was meritorious given they were missing McKay, Pottonet, and lots of defenders.

People have also made the comparison with Melbourne in the first half of 2021 but let's be serious. Melbourne started 9-0 with a percentage of 144.3%!

I'm always disappointed with how fans rewrite our 2018 Season. The reality is we should have been top 4 which would have made a huge difference, had great wins against Geelong & Hawthorn in the finals and then played one horrible half against a well-rested West Coast in Perth. One side in the last 22 years has won from outside the top 4. It's bloody hard to do. That's the reality.

  On 21/05/2022 at 01:08, Maldonboy38 said:

It is clear that the Blues don't play four quarters but neither do we. Each week we play 1 poor quarter at least. The difference is the Blues get out in front with great footy, but then collapse and get overrun. We can give up 8 goals in a row, still find a way to reset, and swamp our opposition late with our fitness and grunt. 

Now I hate the Blues with an incoherent, deep passion so my views on them are always biased, but there is something about them still that makes me hold back from being a believer in their top 4 aspirations, and maybe they will struggle to make 7th or 8th. Their mids are very good but if they lose contested possession count, what is their plan B? Forwards are strong but Dees and Tigers will squeeze so hard defensively that they will look a lot less dangerous. Weitering is a star, love watching him, but he is surrounded by some serious B graders and B- players.  

Sydney should have won that. They needed to convert those chances in the last quarter. Their inability to kick vital goals when they have locked it into their forward half has been an issue for them for 18 months now, and is unresolved. And that Logan McDonald - wow! Scary good.

I don't you can compare us not playing 4 quarters with Carlton not playing 4 quarters. We gave up 8 goals in a row once (and that was the 1st game of the season against last year's grand finalist), but a bad  quarter for Melbourne is not scoring a goal and the opposition scoring 2. We've been outscored in last quarters after we've parked the bus but have never been under threat of losing whereas Carlton have been in 4 games. Melbourne's perentage 159%, Carlton's 114.6%!

I think you're being a bit tough on Carlton's defence. They're missing players and I thought they did an amazing job hanging on last night in the last quarter (not helped by poor delivery into the forward line by the Swans). I think the Swans are overrated personally. They've clearly gone backwards since 2021. 6-4 and were very lucky to beat North. They play Richmond, Melbourne & Port the next 3 weeks and unless they find some form are in danger of missing the 8.

Carlscum need to be fully respected now. We should still beat them, but they are a serious opponent now. 
 

Hideous concept isn’t it. 
Young People have never known the Carlton arrogance yet….

Voss is teaching them the right way and doesn't expect everything to click this year.  McKay will be back and if McGovern ever becomes a professional in his preparation and recovery they will be strong additions.

They don't have a lot of weaknesses.  They were ferocious for the first half last night.  They will learn to do that for 4 quarters like we have.  They play for each other like we do.  Over the pre-season Voss will make some list changes to an already strong list.  He will strengthen their all field defensive work. 

Next year is the year to be concerned about Carlton.  

Edited May 21, 20222 yr by Lucifers Hero

  On 21/05/2022 at 01:36, Sir Why You Little said:

Carlscum need to be fully respected now. We should still beat them, but they are a serious opponent now. 
 

Hideous concept isn’t it. 
Young People have never known the Carlton arrogance yet….

It was at full display last night, embarrassing bunch booing even when the umps are on their side.

Can't stand them! Zero humility given how bad they've been for 20 odd years.

  On 21/05/2022 at 01:48, ElDiablo14 said:

It was at full display last night, embarrassing bunch booing even when the umps are on their side.

Can't stand them! Zero humility given how bad they've been for 20 odd years.

They were booing Parker for his sledging of Shiel last week.  Why they would care about an Ess player being sledged is beyond me.

  On 21/05/2022 at 01:48, ElDiablo14 said:

It was at full display last night, embarrassing bunch booing even when the umps are on their side.

Can't stand them! Zero humility given how bad they've been for 20 odd years.

Carlscum have been bad for a lot longer than 20 years. 
i refuse to eat in Lygon Street 

 

Why all this hand wringing over Carlton? There are always viable challengers. If we repeat we have to beat them. Premierships are not an armchair ride. 

Edited May 21, 20222 yr by John Crow Batty

This new Geelong attacking gameplan is really frightening. 

Naugton gets talked up so much, wouldn't swap him for any of ours. Overrated 

  On 21/05/2022 at 02:13, John Crow Batty said:

Why all this hand wringing over Carlton? There are always viable challengers. If we repeat we have to beat them. Premierships are not an armchair ride. 

Last night was a reminder of the Carlscum of old (1965-99)

it was not a happy memory