Is anyone else seething by the fact that he will more than likely go to another club?

After the Bulldogs developed Jamarra Ugle-Hagan and drafted him at No.1, the AFL decided to move the goal posts. Here we have a young man that we put so much time and money into developing though our Next Generation Academy. The AFL implored clubs to invest in these development programs to bolster the inclusion of indigenous communities and new-generation migrants. We did that.

If Mac Andrew were a Collingwood, Hawthorn, or Essendon NGA prospect we wouldn't have heard the end of it, yet the Melbourne camp has been relatively quiet.

4 minutes ago, ignition. said:

Is anyone else seething by the fact that he will more than likely go to another club?

After the Bulldogs developed Jamarra Ugle-Hagan and drafted him at No.1, the AFL decided to move the goal posts. Here we have a young man that we put so much time and money into developing though our Next Generation Academy. The AFL implored clubs to invest in these development programs to bolster the inclusion of indigenous communities and new-generation migrants. We did that.

If Mac Andrew were a Collingwood, Hawthorn, or Essendon NGA prospect we wouldn't have heard the end of it, yet the Melbourne camp has been relatively quiet.

There does seem to be an issue of 'release' away from the MFC in regards to MAndrew ... the investment from the MFC is far more than dollars alone; it is time that these efforts (considerable) are AFL acknowledged and 'system' rules with drafting should be revised accordingly. Otherwise, there is no point to 'Academy' involvement and early focus. Instead, the nurturing AFL team is once again disadvantaged by the AFL systems that lack quality, reliability and force such issues into oversights and disregard. Another example of the AFL itself not fully considering its myriad attempts at innovation.

 

36 minutes ago, ignition. said:

Is anyone else seething by the fact that he will more than likely go to another club?

After the Bulldogs developed Jamarra Ugle-Hagan and drafted him at No.1, the AFL decided to move the goal posts. Here we have a young man that we put so much time and money into developing though our Next Generation Academy. The AFL implored clubs to invest in these development programs to bolster the inclusion of indigenous communities and new-generation migrants. We did that.

If Mac Andrew were a Collingwood, Hawthorn, or Essendon NGA prospect we wouldn't have heard the end of it, yet the Melbourne camp has been relatively quiet.

Absolutely miffed. From what Taylor has said, he let the AFL know exactly what he thought about it, especially considering the amount of work we put in for Andrew compared to the Dogs with JUH. Last year's draft was an absolute nightmare so they had to do something, but the ones that are committing daylight robbery this year are the Saints. 2 NGAs who are ranked 20-25 and will get them both this year, but if it was 2022, no chance as the rule changes to the top 40. 

But full credit to Andrew, in every interview he talks about the development and opportunities given to him by Melbourne and wouldn't be here without us. He might cost too much draft capital to bring him back to the Dees later in his career, but glad he has had such a good time with us. 

Edited November 1, 20213 yr by Dee-licious

52 minutes ago, ignition. said:

Is anyone else seething by the fact that he will more than likely go to another club?

After the Bulldogs developed Jamarra Ugle-Hagan and drafted him at No.1, the AFL decided to move the goal posts. Here we have a young man that we put so much time and money into developing though our Next Generation Academy. The AFL implored clubs to invest in these development programs to bolster the inclusion of indigenous communities and new-generation migrants. We did that.

If Mac Andrew were a Collingwood, Hawthorn, or Essendon NGA prospect we wouldn't have heard the end of it, yet the Melbourne camp has been relatively quiet.

Nope, don’t care. The NGA’s are a rort.

JUH got developed by the Oakleigh Chargers and Scotch.

Mac played junior footy and has been part of the Stingrays program.

Ive only ever seen one photo of him at a Dees academy session. There’s very little else out there about any impact the Dees have had with him. 

The idea that we’ve been pouring huge resources in to him just doesn’t seem true at all.

37 minutes ago, Dee-licious said:

Absolutely miffed. From what Taylor has said, he let the AFL know exactly what he thought about it, especially considering the amount of work we put in for Andrew compared to the Dogs with JUH. Last year's draft was an absolute nightmare so they had to do something, but the ones that are committing daylight robbery this year are the Saints. 2 NGAs who are ranked 20-25 and will get them both this year, but if it was 2022, no chance as the rule changes to the top 40. 

But full credit to Andrew, in every interview he talks about the development and opportunities given to him by Melbourne and wouldn't be here without us. He might cost too much draft capital to bring him back to the Dees later in his career, but glad he has had such a good time with us. 

You just watch the F/S rule go down a similar path the year before Jeff White's young boy is touted a #1 draft prospect in a few years time.

I personally think that all draft biasing should be scraped anyway - F/S should have gone before NGA as there is no investment involved there. I know its not a popular view but a lot of young kids don't get to go to the club they barracked for growing up. Just because your dad (mom) played for them, really shouldn't give you or the club an advantage. 

Draft should not be tampered/compromised with in anyway - it is complete BS. Still, im seething about Mac Andrews more because of the Saints this year and Dogs last year. 

28 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Nope, don’t care. The NGA’s are a rort.

JUH got developed by the Oakleigh Chargers and Scotch.

Mac played junior footy and has been part of the Stingrays program.

Ive only ever seen one photo of him at a Dees academy session. There’s very little else out there about any impact the Dees have had with him. 

The idea that we’ve been pouring huge resources in to him just doesn’t seem true at all.

Just because you've not seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

In fact you've got no idea.

If we really wanted him, the smart thing to do would have been to act like the Eagles do when they want to get a player.

Issues. Lack of improvement. Go home factor, etc, etc.

51 minutes ago, Redleg said:

If we really wanted him, the smart thing to do would have been to act like the Eagles do when they want to get a player.

Issues. Lack of improvement. Go home factor, etc, etc.

...often seen parting with Jordan De Goey...Tim Smith is his chauffeur...cheats at scrabble.

 

I don’t understand why people are seething about this. The rule was changed at the end of last year and I don’t recall any protests from Melbourne or anyone else. Admittedly, Mac was a completely unknown quantity at the time and, although we know a little bit more about him now, we’re still none the wiser about how he’s going to turn out. If a couple of clubs are prepared to draft him early, that’s their prerogative. It doesn’t fuss me at all.

12 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

I don’t understand why people are seething about this. The rule was changed at the end of last year and I don’t recall any protests from Melbourne or anyone else. Admittedly, Mac was a completely unknown quantity at the time and, although we know a little bit more about him now, we’re still none the wiser about how he’s going to turn out. If a couple of clubs are prepared to draft him early, that’s their prerogative. It doesn’t fuss me at all.

Same WJ, i'm happy to lose out on Mac if it means the end for all clubs getting priority access to top juniors via NGA

1 hour ago, 2021 Premiers said:

Same WJ, i'm happy to lose out on Mac if it means the end for all clubs getting priority access to top juniors via NGA

Maybe GWS and Sydney in particular can hand back a few of theirs?  Only going from recollection here, but I think they have been by far the biggest beneficiaries of the NGAs.

Personally, I agree that the NGAs are a rubbish idea.  It's like going back to the old zone recruiting days.  I think the issue here is that many others have had their lick of the lollipop, but when it's our turn, it gets taken away by mum.

The NGAs shouldn't be needed as incentive for the Northern states to invest in developing junior players.  They are subsided by the rest of the competition just to be in existence.  They should be greatful for that an see it as a reasonable obligation to invest back into their local grass roots teams (as should all AFL teams in a sense, who are essentially funded by popular demand).

Edited November 1, 20213 yr by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

What I would say is that if a team is putting this much time/effort/funding into developing a player, then surely there should be compensation should they go in a draft pick that rules them out of getting to that club. Perhaps an additional pick in the second of third round, or even if it’s just purely money back to the club. 

It just seems pointless to put that effort into development if you do so well that the player ends up becoming unavailable to you. 

Who’s Mac Andrew?  I cant see him past the premiership cup….

On 10/27/2021 at 5:39 AM, Goat said:

Another thing with dogga is people underestimate how much basketball translates to football. Being such a high regarded basketballer you can see how well its helped him develop. i dont see andrews coming close to jackson 

I think you'll find Mac is also an excellent basketballer! 

53 minutes ago, dee-tox said:

I think you'll find Mac is also an excellent basketballer! 

Do you know which team he plays basketball with? 

11 hours ago, Spirit of the Demon said:

Nice big article in today's Herald Sun on Mac Andrew. Read it in a cafe - no link.

Here’s the link to the story. Good luck getting past the pay wall.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/subscribe/news/1/?sourceCode=HSWEB_MRE170_a&dest=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.heraldsun.com.au%2Fsport%2Fafl%2Fdraft%2Fmac-andrew-opens-up-on-his-meteoric-rise-as-his-afl-draft-stocks-soar%2Fnews-story%2F9abf2f091c60a268079d2deb1a185b82&memtype=anonymous&mode=premium&v21=dynamic-cold-test-score&V21spcbehaviour=append

It’s a nice feature on his life and attitude to football but very little analysis of Mac’s game. 

3 hours ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Do you know which team he plays basketball with? 

Couple of teams I understand. Plays and coaches in the Casey Basketball Association (Cavaliers) and South Sudanese Australian Basketball League.

6 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Couple of teams I understand. Plays and coaches in the Casey Basketball Association (Cavaliers) and South Sudanese Australian Basketball League.

Thanks for that. I have a grandson who plays basketball in a similar age bracket but is slightly younger.  For a number of years his team has been competing with an opposition team made up predominantly of Sudanese players who play a pretty exciting style of game. They all seem to be thin and lanky with the ability to move cat-like across the court but  are often found out for a lack of endurance and have been reeled in from a fair way behind in some of their matches.  I don’t know much about physiology but was told that this is fairly typical of people coming from arid regions in that part of the world. 

Therefore, in looking at Mac Andrew’s football, one of my concerns was his tank. In the game vs Geelong for the Academy he was unsighted for three quarters and went okay in the last. In the challenge match for Country vs Metro, he had a purple patch in the second quarter but faded out of the game from midway through the third quarter. The draft experts who talk about the need for him to add weight and strength to compete physically in the ruck don’t appear to have addressed whether he can run out a game and by missing the national championships and the combine that question wasn’t answered for us. 

One would think that interested clubs like GWS and Fremantle would be all over this.

I would think a 200cm teenager not having a tank would be pretty much par for the course. Just about the last thing a club recruiter would be turned off by.

Certainly won't be an issue for us, he'll be gone by pick 10

 

11 minutes ago, Stiff Arm said:

I would think a 200cm teenager not having a tank would be pretty much par for the course. Just about the last thing a club recruiter would be turned off by.

Certainly won't be an issue for us, he'll be gone by pick 10

 

I’m glad it won’t be an issue for us because if whoever takes him in the draft expects him to one day compete  with Max Gawn and Luke Jackson without the energy to run out a game the way they do (after he’s increased his body weight by another 25%) then they’ve got another thing coming. 😀

On that note, it’s time to take another look at the last quarter and a half of the 2021 Grand Final!

12 hours ago, Pates said:

What I would say is that if a team is putting this much time/effort/funding into developing a player, then surely there should be compensation should they go in a draft pick that rules them out of getting to that club. Perhaps an additional pick in the second of third round, or even if it’s just purely money back to the club. 

It just seems pointless to put that effort into development if you do so well that the player ends up becoming unavailable to you. 

The problem was that clubs were not putting development into the NGA players.  They just happen to live in a club's arbitrary zone.  I can think of at least 6-8 first round picks (a few top 10) claimed by clubs in recent years.  

NGA suffered from the outset in that they had a very loose definition of an 'NGA'.  And, it lacked rules/criteria around level of development a club must do to have the right to match a bid.

The AFL chose a 'quick fix' (ie can't match in first 20/40).which it isn't.   From next year if a club can't match until >40 ie round 3 the whole concept of NGA will be meaningless.  As you say why would a club bother.  

That aside I agree if a club has put a bit of development effort into a player and they are not allowed to match then some compensation should be provided, at least in these transition years.

Lol.

19 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Thanks for that. I have a grandson who plays basketball in a similar age bracket but is slightly younger.  For a number of years his team has been competing with an opposition team made up predominantly of Sudanese players who play a pretty exciting style of game. They all seem to be thin and lanky with the ability to move cat-like across the court but  are often found out for a lack of endurance and have been reeled in from a fair way behind in some of their matches.  I don’t know much about physiology but was told that this is fairly typical of people coming from arid regions in that part of the world. 

Therefore, in looking at Mac Andrew’s football, one of my concerns was his tank. In the game vs Geelong for the Academy he was unsighted for three quarters and went okay in the last. In the challenge match for Country vs Metro, he had a purple patch in the second quarter but faded out of the game from midway through the third quarter. The draft experts who talk about the need for him to add weight and strength to compete physically in the ruck don’t appear to have addressed whether he can run out a game and by missing the national championships and the combine that question wasn’t answered for us. 

One would think that interested clubs like GWS and Fremantle would be all over this.

How do you know this is a tank issue?

You do realise this is a common theme with ruckman coming through the junior ranks. It's most likely that it's a consistency thing throughout on gameday then a tank just like most young ruckman. Coaches find it easier to work on their tank then the game awareness.

You've also unfairly judged his performance against Geelong as well. Not only did his team get thumped by over 120 points on the day, he spent majority of the game up forward (an unnatural position for him) where its until the last quarter where he was thrown into his natural position in the ruck and actually did play quite well. You could make a case that 18 other of his teammates on the day weren't much chop. 

In the NAB league his round 2 performance saw him gather 22 disposals as a ruckman. Is that a tank issue? His round 15 performance against Easten Rangers he gathered 18 disposals playing again in his natural position.  In fact in all the games he played in the NAB league besides the game against Bendigo Pioneers where he was concussed in the opening minutes of the game his lowest tally of disposal game was 12.

So there's evidence there that shows he can easily get around the ground with no issues once he's playing more in his natural position in the ruck.

17 minutes ago, The Riv said:

Lol.

How do you know this is a tank issue?

You do realise this is a common theme with ruckman coming through the junior ranks. It's most likely that it's a consistency thing throughout on gameday then a tank just like most young ruckman. Coaches find it easier to work on their tank then the game awareness.

You've also unfairly judged his performance against Geelong as well. Not only did his team get thumped by over 120 points on the day, he spent majority of the game up forward (an unnatural position for him) where its until the last quarter where he was thrown into his natural position in the ruck and actually did play quite well. You could make a case that 18 other of his teammates on the day weren't much chop. 

In the NAB league his round 2 performance saw him gather 22 disposals as a ruckman. Is that a tank issue? His round 15 performance against Easten Rangers he gathered 18 disposals playing again in his natural position.  In fact in all the games he played in the NAB league besides the game against Bendigo Pioneers where he was concussed in the opening minutes of the game his lowest tally of disposal game was 12.

So there's evidence there that shows he can easily get around the ground with no issues once he's playing more in his natural position in the ruck.

I see that you lack comprehension skills so let me make it clear. I did not at any stage claim to know that he had a tank issue. I simply wonder if he has a problem with his tank. 

As to the Geelong game of which I endured the entire game, I agree that most of the team weren’t much chop and neither was he but it was enough for him to suddenly be catapulted into top 15 calculations by one commentator and he was followed shortly thereafter by the sheep. Also strange that you say the forward line is an unnatural position for him since his supporters are advocating that he plays there till he’s strong enough to play ruck. Meanwhile, he rarely kicks goals and you forgot to mention his 13th placing in the Stingrays b & f.

I think it’s fair and reasonable to question what has some people so excited about a kid who has yet to record a best on ground or provide a reasonable body of work to justify him being placed ahead of some fairly handy talent in this year’s draft. That’s all I’m doing - questioning.

25 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

I see that you lack comprehension skills so let me make it clear. I did not at any stage claim to know that he had a tank issue. I simply wonder if he has a problem with his tank. 

As to the Geelong game of which I endured the entire game, I agree that most of the team weren’t much chop and neither was he but it was enough for him to suddenly be catapulted into top 15 calculations by one commentator and he was followed shortly thereafter by the sheep. Also strange that you say the forward line is an unnatural position for him since his supporters are advocating that he plays there till he’s strong enough to play ruck. Meanwhile, he rarely kicks goals and you forgot to mention his 13th placing in the Stingrays b & f.

I think it’s fair and reasonable to question what has some people so excited about a kid who has yet to record a best on ground or provide a reasonable body of work to justify him being placed ahead of some fairly handy talent in this year’s draft. That’s all I’m doing - questioning.

And I clearly pointed out to you that his tank really isn't an issue as he is able to get around the ground and win his fair share of the footy as shown in his NAB league games. He just gets lost when he's playing up forward. Being in a full time AFL environment will help this.

His forward craft will need working out. I haven't been a supporter of him up forward. I am a believer that he should at times been trialled down back in the same role as Aliir Aliir as that intercept role. Even Mac Andrew has been on record saying he actually prefers playing down back then in the ruck. 

Club recruiters obviously see a higher ceiling in him over others in the draft. Ruckman have obviously become the new shiny toy now especially with the emergence of Luke Jackson and his performance grand final performance. If clubs think Andrew can at least emulate some of those athletic traits then good on them.

The chance of getting a good young talented ruckman onto your list to develope is worth gold gold to most clubs hence why there's significant interest inside top 15 for him.