Knightmare is a nuff

  On 09/10/2021 at 01:23, whatwhat say what said:

is this the same mick malthouse who writes utter garbage in the little paper and talks complete rubbish on aunty?

fraser might've been 'belted up' but he was the #1 ruckman from the get go in a side that was a regular finals side and he played in excess of 200 games across a 13 year career, was vice-captain of his club, and more than held his own as #1 ruck over the course of his time

Yes it's the same Mick Malthouse who's a 3× premiership coach. He's way out of fashion with the game now so I do get that.

But at the time his comment was pretty relevant. 

  On 09/10/2021 at 02:45, Whispering_Jack said:

Never is or was. It’s about having opinions and mine is that it’s not worth spending a first rounder on a speculative tall player who, according to my observation, is likely to take several years to develop into a decent footballer (if at all). 

Yes Jack I've known your opinion on him for a while now. I'm reminded of it because it's constantly brought up by you. It's like you're barracking for him to not get selected in the first round.

  On 09/10/2021 at 02:52, durango said:

Sometimes you take a calculated risk but if GWS recruit Lobb and Andrew he will be a development player and when he is ready for AFL football he will be picked off like a lot of GWS players and now Hill wants after 30 games.

Hopefully the high performance team at GWS will not destroy Andrew in a haste to get him upto AFL standard a la Jeck Watts.

Spot on. GWS have the luxury of letting him develop in the 2's and not feel that he needs to rush in.

  On 09/10/2021 at 03:36, monoccular said:

Or having the luxury of him developing slowly in Casey VFL (assuming that the abomination of 2020&2021 is resolved) under the tutelage of Max (and Jacko) being ready to step up when Max steps down.  

And this again.

  On 09/10/2021 at 04:39, dazzledavey36 said:

Yes Jack I've known your opinion on him for a while now. I'm reminded of it because it's constantly brought up by you. It's like you're barracking for him to not get selected in the first round.

Yes and we’re reminded by you that a kid who hasn’t been BOG in any of his games is being touted as a top 10 ruck prospect.

 

  On 09/10/2021 at 08:01, Leopold Bloom said:

Yes and we’re reminded by you that a kid who hasn’t been BOG in any of his games is being touted as a top 10 ruck prospect.

 

Yeah cool story bro..

You're only completely missing the point of this whole thread.

Keep trying rookie.

  On 09/10/2021 at 08:12, dazzledavey36 said:

Yeah cool story bro..

You're only completely missing the point of this whole thread.

Keep trying rookie.

Oh that’s right … he’ll be a champ in 2026 at his third club. Cool.

  On 09/10/2021 at 04:39, dazzledavey36 said:

It's like you're barracking for him to not get selected in the first round.

I don’t view the draft as a spectator sport and he seems like a nice bloke so I’d be quite happy for him to be selected at any stage in November. More so from Melbourne’s point of view, given my opinion that he’s not top 20, because if he does get selected in the first round, it leaves an extra potential top 20 player available for us at #17. 

  On 09/10/2021 at 08:01, Leopold Bloom said:

Yes and we’re reminded by you that a kid who hasn’t been BOG in any of his games is being touted as a top 10 ruck prospect.

 

This game against Vic Metro wasn't best on ground because Daicos had 40, but this is the kind of game that Gawn and Jackson have at AFL level that we rave about. And it's at state level. Assuming he backed it up with a number of nab league games - which he did, that's how you go top 10. 30 disposals stands out, but 4 contested marks and clean ball use is often just as good.

  Quote

With similar capabilities to Paddy Ryder, the athletic Andrew managed 15 disposals, seven marks (a game-high four contested), nine contested possessions and one goal in the clash at Windy Hill.

What was impressive from Andrew was the mix of what he provided. From taking strong contested marks forward of centre -- often outreaching opponents in better position -- taking intercept marks when stationed in defence, to cleanly taking the ball off the bounce and using his skills cleanly, it's apparent Andrew is one of this draft's most talented talls.

Everyone gets excited by the 20 midfielders who are between 180cm and 185cm who all average 25 touches. Some of them are future stars, a lot of them are just players destined to be somewhere between role players and state league talents. Right now I'm looking at a picture of Luke Dunstan just to the right of screen. State captain, MVP of the South Aussie team, not much of an AFL career so far to be honest, joining us as depth. The recruiters know how to sort them pretty well to find who has the speed, skills, fitness, decision making etc. Once they've done that it becomes clearer where they all fit and how even without a lot of dominant games you'll take a 200cm freak athlete who can take contested marks at either end.

I've found this thread a little bizarre even Demonland's standards. 

I've heard one poster compare Andrew to Usain Bolt's soccer career at the Mariners implying that he has just taken up the game. Arrived from a refugee camp somewhere in Africa knowing nothing about the game. He hasn't  of course and has been featuring in suburban league b&f's since he was 12.

Throughout 2021 as the media started interviewing recruiters and realised that he may go much higher than pick 20 we have posters say: Ah, not to worry. At 70 kgs he's too skinny anyway to play ruck in the AFL. He'll take five years to come good. We don't need him, etc.

My nephew bumped into Mac only a few weeks ago and assured me that he much closer to 80 kilos than 70 and is filling out nicely.

To me with his jump, pace, agility, ball control, etc he will start forward. The ruck will come much later. 

Very few draftees make an impact in their first season. In year two Mac will close to physically ready and he'll be a sight to see. A top 10 pick might be an absolute bargain.

 

 

  On 09/10/2021 at 10:23, DeeSpencer said:

This game against Vic Metro wasn't best on ground because Daicos had 40, but this is the kind of game that Gawn and Jackson have at AFL level that we rave about. And it's at state level. Assuming he backed it up with a number of nab league games - which he did, that's how you go top 10. 30 disposals stands out, but 4 contested marks and clean ball use is often just as good.

No because Gawn and Jackson play primarily in the ruck and that wasn’t Mac Andrew’s role in the game against Vic Metro. He started as a key forward and also also played key back. Kicked an early goal, hit a bit of a purple patch in the second quarter and faded badly in the last quarter and a half. The team’s main ruckman was Toby Conway and most of the ruck duels forward of centre were taken by Josh Rentsch who was playing in the forward pocket. Andrew showed a lot of spring in the few ruck duels he contested but not many went to advantage. If Max or Luke played games like that as ruckmen, we’d be scratching our heads wondering what was going on. Your assumption about him backing it up in a number of NAB Boys League games is off the mark. He played in 6 of a possible 9 games for the Stingrays and finished 13th in their b & f. 

As I said many times, it was important for him to persuade us of his ability/promise by performance on the big stage, in particular in the national championships and in the NAB Boys League but the lockdown prevented that from happening. Again, good luck to him but I haven’t seen the evidence with my own eyes of a top 20 draftee.

  On 09/10/2021 at 10:51, dee-tox said:

I've found this thread a little bizarre even Demonland's standards. 

I've heard one poster compare Andrew to Usain Bolt's soccer career at the Mariners implying that he has just taken up the game. Arrived from a refugee camp somewhere in Africa knowing nothing about the game. He hasn't  of course and has been featuring in suburban league b&f's since he was 12.

Throughout 2021 as the media started interviewing recruiters and realised that he may go much higher than pick 20 we have posters say: Ah, not to worry. At 70 kgs he's too skinny anyway to play ruck in the AFL. He'll take five years to come good. We don't need him, etc.

My nephew bumped into Mac only a few weeks ago and assured me that he much closer to 80 kilos than 70 and is filling out nicely.

To me with his jump, pace, agility, ball control, etc he will start forward. The ruck will come much later. 

Very few draftees make an impact in their first season. In year two Mac will close to physically ready and he'll be a sight to see. A top 10 pick might be an absolute bargain.

 

 

Stop talking sense.

I'd rather listen to the recruiters on here.

  On 09/10/2021 at 11:17, dazzledavey36 said:

Stop talking sense.

I'd rather listen to the recruiters on here.

Agreed … and the best way to listen to the recruiters is to hear what the real ones do on November 24 and November 25. 

  On 09/10/2021 at 03:44, Stiff Arm said:

One small advantage of having pick 17 (which will prob end up being 19), regardless of it being for our 2022 1st rounder, is that if MA happens to be available at that pick the club will likely have the ability use 19 on another draftee and match for MA with later picks

Agree Stiff Arm, we’ve traded ourselves into a sweet spot. Clubs will be excited by him but I see most if not all will be willing to risk it. MA will have been closely followed by the MFC and he knows the rule changes have seriously stifled our ability to recruit him. He’ll be happy to go to whoever drafts him of course but the fact he has been within our NGA and that we are the reigning Premiers who boast an elite Ruck division that will allow him to develop is the best case for him and us. If an interstate Club drafts him they’ll back themselves to integrate him but the ability to retain him will be an uncertainty too. Surely recruiters will be nervous spending a first round pick here. I see a Vic Club as his most likely suitor but do those with an early draft pick have the luxury to develop him? Having said all this, worst case is the 18th best player in the draft drops to us.

  On 09/10/2021 at 02:39, Fat Tony said:

Look at Tim English for the Bulldogs. He is looking like one of the best players in his draft and might take the mantle off Max Gawn. (English has shown a lot more than Gawn did in his early years and is now being paid a decent wage on potential.) But he has been badly exposed in two finals campaigns and the Dogs have missed out on flags, in part, due to their ruck.

Don’t want to nit pick but Gawn won his first aa at 24 the same age as English is now, after showing he was at that level in periods the year prior. English has never show anything approaching aa this year or any other year. It’s a bit of a furphy to say Gawn took a long time to come on when he came on the same age as Trac. Not sure how all this relates to mac a other than even a slow burn ruck will need to show something at a senior level inside the first 3-4 years if they are going to be worth a high pick

  On 10/10/2021 at 02:53, Garbo said:

Don’t want to nit pick but Gawn won his first aa at 24 the same age as English is now, after showing he was at that level in periods the year prior. English has never show anything approaching aa this year or any other year. It’s a bit of a furphy to say Gawn took a long time to come on when he came on the same age as Trac. Not sure how all this relates to mac a other than even a slow burn ruck will need to show something at a senior level inside the first 3-4 years if they are going to be worth a high pick

Gawn was AA in his seventh season. English has played only five. 

  On 10/10/2021 at 03:00, Fat Tony said:

Gawn was AA in his seventh season. English has played only five. 

Sure just means English had 18months extra development before coming into the league. There age is still relative to each other, Gawn by the same age was a fully capable top tier ruck 

Edited October 10, 20213 yr by Garbo

  On 10/10/2021 at 03:00, Fat Tony said:

Gawn was AA in his seventh season. English has played only five. 

Gawn missed basically 2 seasons with knee reconstructions and had some knee swelling in some other seasons.

We need a replacement for Gawn - perfect for Big Mac to be his understudy and take the mantle in 3 years or so . Perhaps a 3 prong attack with Jackson Gawn and Big mac . 

awesome.

 

I’m in the camp that thinks it’s a strong possibility that Mac Andrew will be selected outside the top 20.

It’s one thing to say that he’s rated top 10, or even for a handful of recruiters to say it too, but at the end of the day he has to have a club with a top 10 pick actually prepared to make the selection in the knowledge they’ll have to wait 5+ years for a return. He has incredible potential, but for those trying to get an earlier return on investment it may be a dirty word. And we have the luxury of a flag to mitigate any pressure for a quick ROI. Other clubs don’t have that luxury and there will be pressure to maintain their positions.

I’ve a feeling the cards will fall our way. But I also don’t think he’s clearly that much better than a lot of other players on offer. 

Edited October 10, 20213 yr by Mach5

  On 10/10/2021 at 09:42, Mach5 said:

I’m in the camp that thinks it’s a strong possibility that Mac Andrew will be selected outside the top 20.

It’s one thing to say that he’s rated top 10, or even for a handful of recruiters to say it too, but at the end of the day he has to have a club with a top 10 pick actually prepared to make the selection in the knowledge they’ll have to wait 5+ years for a return. He has incredible potential, but for those trying to get an earlier return on investment it may be a dirty word. And we have the luxury of a flag to mitigate any pressure for a quick ROI. Other clubs don’t have that luxury and there will be pressure to maintain their positions.

I’ve a feeling the cards will fall our way. But I also don’t think he’s clearly that much better than a lot of other players on offer. 

Lets hope we keep picks 37, 49 and 57 (or get picks with equivalent points) so that we have enough to match, if he slides into the low 20's.

  On 10/10/2021 at 21:27, Premiers said:

Lets hope we keep picks 37, 49 and 57 (or get picks with equivalent points) so that we have enough to match, if he slides into the low 20's.

I don’t get this point system as technically don’t we have an infinite amount of picks if our list allows us? Eg let’s say all teams pass in the 90s. That then gives us pick 91,92,93,94 and so on for points does if not? Or our round 8,9,10,11 picks

Edited October 10, 20213 yr by olisik

  On 10/10/2021 at 22:41, olisik said:

I don’t get this point system as technically don’t we have an infinite amount of picks if our list allows us? Eg let’s say all teams pass in the 90s. That then gives us pick 91,92,93,94 and so on for points does if not? Or our round 8,9,10,11 picks

No you only get points on the spots or picks you actually have. Otherwise the points are meaningless.

  On 10/10/2021 at 22:41, olisik said:

I don’t get this point system as technically don’t we have an infinite amount of picks if our list allows us? Eg let’s say all teams pass in the 90s. That then gives us pick 91,92,93,94 and so on for points does if not? Or our round 8,9,10,11 picks

You only have picks that correspond to vacant list spots and, in any case, picks in the 90s bave no points

  On 10/10/2021 at 22:41, olisik said:

I don’t get this point system as technically don’t we have an infinite amount of picks if our list allows us? Eg let’s say all teams pass in the 90s. That then gives us pick 91,92,93,94 and so on for points does if not? Or our round 8,9,10,11 picks

The points stop at pick 73, so anything above that is worth 0.

This article explains it well https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-draft-2020-ultimate-guide-how-does-the-bidding-system-work-draft-rules-explained-preview-jamarra-uglehagan-bid-fatherson-players-academy-players/news-story/7da59102bb39f3d8a04cc8d8ae47d9a3

From my understanding you also can't have more picks than list spots now

If we thought Mac would fall outside 20 I reckon we would’ve kept more list spots open to allow us to do a bit more shuffling. 

Nothings ever a lock but Twomey’s late September form guide had him at 8.

Quick looks at his 2018, 19 and 20 October updates show his top 10 guys go pretty much to plan with about the latest a guy falls out to being 15 or so.

He also had Luke Jackson at 14 but was hearing rumours of top 10. Maybe he’s overreacting now with Mac but I sense he’s not.

The draft picture becomes even clearer after the trade period but if Mac stays in the top 10 range at that stage then Twomey probably has serious mail.