Team Pressure

[jnrmac 20,186]

Most of us can see when the team is not switched on in the first few minutes of a game. Very frustrating

We know when the team pressure is off and they are not working hard enough. It was clear against Collingwood, the Giants, and North.

Well here is. What most if us intuitively know:

From Pure Footy:

Aside from an alarming drop in scoring in recent weeks, Melbourne also has an issue when it doesn’t have the ball.

“In the first 10 weeks of the year Melbourne was the No.1 rated pressure team in the competition, they were flying,” Hoyne said.

“Since then their pressure has dropped to 14th.”

James Jordon’s pressure point are down from 63 to 29 per game, while James Harmes, Charlie Spargo, Christian Salem, Clayton Oliver and Kysaiah Pickett have also dropped their pressure significantly in that time.

“If you’re poor without the footy, you’re not winning the flag. It’s as simple as that,” David King said.

 So all of those saying:

'nothing to see here', 'if you had of asked me at the start of the season that we would be 12-3 I'd take it', 'everybody stop panicking' etc etc take a good look at the stat

We were no 1 for pressure, now 14th. That's alarming and it is the easiest thing to fix. Its effort and attitude. If we don't bring it its on the leaders and the coaching staff.

So why isn't it being addressed? Why has it dropped? Why has no-one been dropped (other than Melksham and Weid) for not putting enough pressure on?

This is the difference between finishing top 4 or finishing in the bottom half of the 8.

Are we going to let this opportunity slip us by?

Are we going to hold the leaders and coaching staff accountable or simply do what weak teams do and blame othersor the draw or some other BS. And say 'gee we had a good year didn't we?'

We as supporters need to demand more of our team and our club. Its not good enough to play the way we have been in the last 4 to 6 weeks

[titan_uranus 25,043]

The general point you're making is a valid one (i.e. our pressure has fallen back the last few games) but then it gets all hyperbolic.

What has our reduced pressure got to do with the valid question to ask anyone right now (i.e. would you have been happy with 12-3 if you'd been offered it before the season)?

In relation to whether it's being addressed, as you've pointed out we've already seen two casualties (Melksham and Weideman) but otherwise it's not surprising at all that we haven't seen masses of dropped players - it's only been three games, and one of them was before the bye. It's no surprise to me at all if the FD wanted to give players like Spargo, Pickett, ANB, Jordon and Sparrow at least two games post-bye to lift their intensity, the more so given we won the first one vs Essendon.

It's also fair to note that despite the lower pressure rating, our last two opponents have struggled to score against us. Much more of the loss to GWS can be attributed to what we did with the ball, not what we did without the ball. 

[deanox 9,989]

8 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

...

Is pressure points measured as actions that effectively apply pressure?

 

While I agree that we have looked off with pressure, my question is "is it laziness or is it a structural/game plan thing"?

What I mean is, early in the year our zone was dominating. Opposition players kept kicking to spots we were defending, so it was easy for our players to apply pressure, and thus earn pressure points.

Adelaide beat us structurally by kicking a shallow kick to where May/Lever weren't, forcing them to move out of position and therefore the opposition created opportunities to score. This could look like a lack of pressure points on the stats sheet, because our players had less opportunity to apply pressure.

I thought GWS played a game out of their D50 where they chipped short to the HB line before going long or cutting 45 back into the centre. This meant our players were regularly out of position, and therefore couldn't apply pressure.

So is the issue that after 10 weeks the other teams have started to crack our structures in a way that means we can't apply pressure? Or are the players not working hard enough to apply the pressure? Or both?

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

Pressure has been given a numeric rating for both the team and individual players. It therefore follows that something quantitative is being measured which translates either directly or indirectly into "pressure". What exactly is used to measure pressure? 

[Demonstone 22,815]

The real question is which Demonlander will be the first to trot out that tired, stale old cliche about "bathwater".

[ArtificialWisdom 4,045]

3 minutes ago, demonstone said:

The real question is which Demonlander will be the first to trot out that tired, stale old cliche about "bathwater".

Can't talk about bathwater when their heads are too big to get through the bathroom door

[Sir Why You Little 37,128]

1st to 14th is a huge drop

It’s a different side since the Adelaide game. There is time to restructure, but it is a lot of hard work

Opposition Clubs have broken down our structure and worked it out

[jnrmac 20,186]

49 minutes ago, deanox said:

Is pressure points measured as actions that effectively apply pressure?

 

While I agree that we have looked off with pressure, my question is "is it laziness or is it a structural/game plan thing"?

What I mean is, early in the year our zone was dominating. Opposition players kept kicking to spots we were defending, so it was easy for our players to apply pressure, and thus earn pressure points.

Adelaide beat us structurally by kicking a shallow kick to where May/Lever weren't, forcing them to move out of position and therefore the opposition created opportunities to score. This could look like a lack of pressure points on the stats sheet, because our players had less opportunity to apply pressure.

I thought GWS played a game out of their D50 where they chipped short to the HB line before going long or cutting 45 back into the centre. This meant our players were regularly out of position, and therefore couldn't apply pressure.

So is the issue that after 10 weeks the other teams have started to crack our structures in a way that means we can't apply pressure? Or are the players not working hard enough to apply the pressure? Or both?

 

It starts in the middle. GWS waltzed out of the middle and smashed us in clearances.

It is in the fwd line where earlier in the year we were holding it in.

Our defence is under huge pressure and is holding up but can't keep doing it forever.

You can see it with your own eyes. We not running and closing down oppo thrusts.

We're relying on scoring from our def 50.

We're also playing a lot more stop/start with fewer play ons than earlier in the year.

But above all we aren't pressuring the opposition when they have the ball. Thats what good teams do, That's what we did earlier in the year, We have stopped doing it.

 

 

[roy11 3,893]

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

James Jordon’s pressure point are down from 63 to 29 per game, while James Harmes, Charlie Spargo, Christian Salem, Clayton Oliver and Kysaiah Pickett have also dropped their pressure significantly in that time.

Some of those names are predictable, but Salem an interesting one.

[Brownie 5,988]

31 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

It starts in the middle. GWS waltzed out of the middle and smashed us in clearances.

It is in the fwd line where earlier in the year we were holding it in.

Our defence is under huge pressure and is holding up but can't keep doing it forever.

You can see it with your own eyes. We not running and closing down oppo thrusts.

We're relying on scoring from our def 50.

We're also playing a lot more stop/start with fewer play ons than earlier in the year.

But above all we aren't pressuring the opposition when they have the ball. Thats what good teams do, That's what we did earlier in the year, We have stopped doing it.

 

 

Completely agree. They can work out whatever strategy they like to beat us but if we apply pressure and don't let them execute, turnovers happen and we win the ball back.

The amount of times there were a ring of GWS players circling a contest while our blokes stood back on the weekend was worrying.

And ...

Our forward structure and delivery is screwed.

And ...

The forward pressure which is such a big part of our "brand" has gone off the boil.

[binman 43,762]

If you apply Occam's razor to the question of why our pressure has dropped of, the answer i come up with is that we are fatigued.

We play a very taxing game that is very tiring. And it is logical pressure falls away when the team is fatigued.

I reject the idea it is something as vague as a lack of effort. They might be mentally tired, but I don't reckon that is a huge factor.

To me the real question is why are we fatigued?

We have a number of young players. It is the point of the season that all teams start feeling fatigued, particularly younger teams. 

But again I suspect we are doing extra training loads and that is a big factor.

Edited July 7, 2021 by binman

[Bags 34]

48 minutes ago, ArtificialWisdom said:

Can't talk about bathwater when their heads are too big to get through the bathroom door

What absolute nonsense. The sky is falling mentality here is quite unbelievable and embarrassing. Pressure is a great stat to look at, and I agree that the drop is alarming. We have gone from a team  being able to absorb pressure and springboard from there, to a position where we are struggling to maintain pressure and launch a counter attack.

Not panic stations but definitely a concern that I am confident the coaches will be addressing. 

[Bags 34]

4 minutes ago, binman said:

If apply Occam's razor to the question of why our pressure has dropped of, tbe answered i come up with is that we are fatigued.

We play a very taxing game that is very tiring. And it is logical pressure falls away when the team is gatgued

I reject the idea it is mental  or something as vague as a lack of effort

To me rbe real question is why ate we fatigued?

We have a number of young players. It is the point of tbe season tbst all teams start feeling fatigued  particularly younger teams. 

But again I suspect we are doing extra training loafs and tbst is a big factor.

Agree. We are also struggling to score quickly which can help shift momentum during the game. Scoreboard pressure is something we lack offensively! 

[Lord Travis 10,763]

16 minutes ago, roy11 said:

Some of those names are predictable, but Salem an interesting one.

He’s not been as good since returning from injury/illness. Had a good game on the weekend, but his first 2.5 months were brilliant and far better quality than recent form.
The main difference with Salem is his defensive work has dropped right off, not sure if by design of not. First 2.5 months he was winning one on ones and creating his own opportunities to rebound. He was using his body really well in contests, a big leap up from his defensive work in previous years. He was simply brilliant and the coaches votes reflected that as he was rated top ten player in the league across that time. Was a clear AA contender.
Recently he is barely making it to contents, let alone impacting them, and is relying on being fed that ball as a loose player again. Not sure if it’s by design to keep him free or if he’s getting lazy defensively and sagging off too much. Either way, he was far more effective when he was playing more defensively and creating opportunities. He’s one we’d love to get back into AA form for finals. 

[Demonstone 22,815]

4 minutes ago, Bags said:

What absolute nonsense.

[Sydee 4,529]

8 minutes ago, binman said:

If apply Occam's razor to the question of why our pressure has dropped of, tbe answered i come up with is that we are fatigued.

We play a very taxing game that is very tiring. And it is logical pressure falls away when the team is gatgued

I reject the idea it is mental  or something as vague as a lack of effort

To me rbe real question is why ate we fatigued?

We have a number of young players. It is the point of tbe season tbst all teams start feeling fatigued  particularly younger teams. 

But again I suspect we are doing extra training loafs and tbst is a big factor.

Agree with that Bin - what's happening with the spelling there today ??

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,909]

8 minutes ago, binman said:

If apply Occam's razor to the question of why our pressure has dropped of, tbe answered i come up with is that we are fatigued.

We play a very taxing game that is very tiring. And it is logical pressure falls away when the team is gatgued

I reject the idea it is mental  or something as vague as a lack of effort

To me rbe real question is why ate we fatigued?

We have a number of young players. It is the point of tbe season tbst all teams start feeling fatigued  particularly younger teams. 

But again I suspect we are doing extra training loafs and tbst is a big factor.

Sorry Binman. I had to preserve this for posterity before you edit it.

I, too, am troubled by being gatgued. And if we're doing training loafs, I hope they're wholemeal.

[jnrmac 20,186]

9 minutes ago, Bags said:

What absolute nonsense. The sky is falling mentality here is quite unbelievable and embarrassing. Pressure is a great stat to look at, and I agree that the drop is alarming. We have gone from a team  being able to absorb pressure and springboard from there, to a position where we are struggling to maintain pressure and launch a counter attack.

Not panic stations but definitely a concern that I am confident the coaches will be addressing. 

No one said the sky is falling but if you can't see the relationship between our pressure earlier in the year and our performance then versus now you aren't watching very closely.

I too would be hopeful that the coaches are addressing it but we are 3-3 from the last 6 games and they haven't addressed it yet.

[Demonstone 22,815]

Bags was referring to Artificial Wisdom's bathroom door gag, not your original post jnrmac.

[roy11 3,893]

8 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

He’s not been as good since returning from injury/illness. Had a good game on the weekend, but his first 2.5 months were brilliant and far better quality than recent form.
The main difference with Salem is his defensive work has dropped right off, not sure if by design of not. First 2.5 months he was winning one on ones and creating his own opportunities to rebound. He was using his body really well in contests, a big leap up from his defensive work in previous years. He was simply brilliant and the coaches votes reflected that as he was rated top ten player in the league across that time. Was a clear AA contender.
Recently he is barely making it to contents, let alone impacting them, and is relying on being fed that ball as a loose player again. Not sure if it’s by design to keep him free or if he’s getting lazy defensively and sagging off too much. Either way, he was far more effective when he was playing more defensively and creating opportunities. He’s one we’d love to get back into AA form for finals. 

Good reply which has be second guessing my initial post aha

I guess I've been distracted by the fact he's doing his job (which may have changed?) whilst a lot of the action ends up around Hib/May/Lever/Petty etc

 

[Redleg 41,431]

Didn't one of the footy shows say we were the 2nd youngest side this round?

That would explain the pressure dropping. Mental and physical fatigue setting in.

 

Edited July 7, 2021 by Redleg

[titan_uranus 25,043]

20 minutes ago, binman said:

If apply Occam's razor to the question of why our pressure has dropped of, tbe answered i come up with is that we are fatigued.

We play a very taxing game that is very tiring. And it is logical pressure falls away when the team is gatgued

I reject the idea it is mental  or something as vague as a lack of effort

To me rbe real question is why ate we fatigued?

We have a number of young players. It is the point of tbe season tbst all teams start feeling fatigued  particularly younger teams. 

But again I suspect we are doing extra training loafs and tbst is a big factor.

Carb loading?

[Bags 34]

7 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

No one said the sky is falling but if you can't see the relationship between our pressure earlier in the year and our performance then versus now you aren't watching very closely.

I too would be hopeful that the coaches are addressing it but we are 3-3 from the last 6 games and they haven't addressed it yet.

Thanks jnrmac. I do agree with you- the drop in pressure has been significant. I think this thread can provide rational discussion that doesn't sink to bagging players for getting ahead of themselves or sack the coach comments, which seem to be frequent at the moment. 

[DubDee 26,117]

It is somewhat a relief to see this stat (although is is concerning) and the massive drop off in pressure.  if we were still pressuring hard and losing that would be concerning

I don't agree that it is the easiest thing to fix however. It is not simply a matter of trying harder, I believe the team us trying their guts out each week. It is team defence, playing your role, going back to being selfless (not falling into old habits when the opposition pressure comes), trusting your teammates to run where they should, being mentally fresh and tough

We have time to get it right, but at the moment, we are a fairly easy team to run over 

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

2 minutes ago, DubDee said:

t is somewhat a relief to see this stat (although is is concerning) and the massive drop off in pressure.  if we were still pressuring hard and losing that would be concerning

We've dropped down to 14th in pressure points and lost 3 games by an average of a kick and half over 4 quarters (2 points a quarter by my reckonning)

Plenty to work with here lads and ladettes! 

As humans, we look for patterns - we look for patterns as infants to see faces, as football supporters, we look for patterns to make predictions about our emotional safety... and sometimes just like David King, we force patterns to appear, when they are not there!