5 hours ago, WA Demon Boy said:

In October last year Jack Viney signed a 5 year deal until the end of 2025. 

I acknowledge how great he is for standards, leadership and work rate around the club. 

However, I believe he is no longer a fit for what we need and I don't know how we can afford to play him for the next few years.

Put simply he is slow, he struggles to get any penetration on his kicks, he doesn't hit the scoreboard, lacks composure and continues to have niggling injuries that deteriorate his career.

I think the game is going to go past him with the way he plays and I'm fearful that he will slow down our growth

Where do we go with Jack Viney?  

Viney is a gun, give him a few weeks and he will be destroying teams, some fans have a short memory. 

IIRC Geelong were looking to get him to replace Selwood? Like Selwood or not, he is a VERY highly-rated player and leader. Doesn’t that say a bit about Viney?

Don't jump off, he will be back.

I think he’s effing amazing and these are just pot shots while he is coming back from injury.

He has always had this talk of being one dimensional. Pretty good dimension.

13 hours ago, WA Demon Boy said:

Play him forward? In what world?

He can't kick more than 40m, has 0 aerial skills, isn't nimble, hand to foot drop is slow and defenders would have a field day running off him. 

I genuinely hope we trade him. Might sounds harsh but he's going to be a liability and hurt us in the future. 

Or I hope young guys come in for Viney 


 

That is also my assesment, but it wont happen.

I don’t want to be offensive, as everyone is allowed an opinion, but these pea hearted knockers of JV need to go and rewatch game 6, when he mutilated the tigers in the tackle. He is a beast who stands up and goes bang in big games. Our pressure which is what has been our one wood has been lead by players like JV. He has massive credits in the bank.

1 hour ago, DEE fence said:

I don’t want to be offensive, as everyone is allowed an opinion, but these pea hearted knockers of JV need to go and rewatch game 6, when he mutilated the tigers in the tackle. He is a beast who stands up and goes bang in big games. Our pressure which is what has been our one wood has been lead by players like JV. He has massive credits in the bank.

Don't think anyone here is questioning our heart vs Vineys 

I admire and respect his ferocity as do most

What I'm saying is that his style of play and limitations is a major concern for our growth. 

I want to be proven wrong and hopefully am this week which is a big game vs Port 

The only solution is simple

This Week he tags O.Wines

Next week he tags T. Mitchel

etc...etc

JV will come good but strong club would have brought him back through Casey.  Zac Butress much better player than Vines and has come back through SANFL for Port.

Edited July 6, 20213 yr by Canplay

1 hour ago, WA Demon Boy said:

Don't think anyone here is questioning our heart vs Vineys 

I admire and respect his ferocity as do most

What I'm saying is that his style of play and limitations is a major concern for our growth. 

I want to be proven wrong and hopefully am this week which is a big game vs Port 

Exactly!

I have no Intel on this, but to my eye after he was down with that trainer, he looked shot for the rest of the game. Looked sluggish and half paced and to me it looked like his foot again. 

So it wouldn't surprise if he was managaged against Port and we see Melksham come back in, pushing Sparrow/Jordan back through the middle. 

22 hours ago, Better days ahead said:

I think he would have been better off with some games in the VFL rather than going straight back into the first team

His toughness and attack on the ball are his biggest asset and will be important for us come finals time

Yep. He has a habit of coming back far too underdone. I wonder if he convinces the coaching staff that he is ready when he really isnt.

His come back in 2018 finals was legendary though...

2 hours ago, WA Demon Boy said:

Don't think anyone here is questioning our heart vs Vineys 

I admire and respect his ferocity as do most

What I'm saying is that his style of play and limitations is a major concern for our growth. 

I want to be proven wrong and hopefully am this week which is a big game vs Port 

I for one have no problem with his playing style or skill level. The problem is that he is consistently injured or coming back from injury.

He is rarely 100%.

There will be a clear point where another player pushes him out because he is continually at 80%. That time is coming soon.

26 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

I have no Intel on this, but to my eye after he was down with that trainer, he looked shot for the rest of the game. 

 

Agree.

I have swung on Jack and after being guilty of underestimating his importance, think he is super important to us.

But I thought he had a better game against the bombers and looked more mobile too.

Our mids were well beaten and viney and harmes were both poor, which put us behind the eight ball for the whole day.

And not just poor offensively, poor defensively, which meant that too many of the clearances GWS won were clean and unpressured. 

I went to the game, which was both terrific and rubbish, in equal measure. I use binoculars at games and one of the things i like to do is  zero in on the players and coaches at breaks, and when the game has come to a stop, to get a sense of their body language.

After half time, the players came out and got into their obligatory huddle and listened to Max rev them up. Watching Viney, i noticed for quite a bit of it he was looking away  absently.

Now, that in of itself is no hanging office - each player has their own thing i guess. That said, it is a pet hate of mine in junior sport (kids not looking at the coach when they are being addressed).  

So i watched Viney for a while after the huddle broke and he looked disgruntled, for want of a better word. Certainly wasn't animated and seemed to be stretching out his leg. A few players came across to him and he just seemed flat.

I might well be reading too much into it, but that is exactly how he played in the second half. 

Edited July 6, 20213 yr by binman

9 minutes ago, BAMF said:

There will be a clear point where another player pushes him out because he is continually at 80%. That time is coming soon.

Good call 

We need to be proactive about it though 

I've liked our trading and picks the last few years so a replacement could come sooner than expected 

 

2 minutes ago, binman said:

Agree.

I have swung on Jack and after being guilty of underestimating his importance, think he is super important to us.

But I thought he had a better game against the bombers and looked more mobile too.

Our mids were well beaten and viney and harmes were both poor, which put us behind the eight ball for the whole day.

And not just poor offensively, poor defensively, which meant that too many of the clearances GWS won were clean and unpressured. 

I went to the game, which was both terrific and rubbish, in equal measure. I use binoculars at games and one of the things i like to do is  zero in on the players and coaches at breaks, and when the game has come to a stop, to get a sense of their body language.

After half time, the players came out and got into their obligatory huddle and listened to Max rev them up. Watching Viney, i noticed for quite a bit of it he was looking away  absently.

Now, that in of itself is no hanging office - each player has their own thing i guess. That said, it is a pet hate of mine in junior sport (kids not looking at the coach when they are being addressed).  

So i watched Viney for a while after the huddle broke and he looked disgruntled, for want of a better word. Certainly wasn't animated and seemed to be stretching out his leg. A few players came across to him and he just seemed flat.

I might well be reading too much into it, but that is exactly how he played in the second half. 

Interesting. 

There seems to be a lot of noise that Jack isn't a 'team player' - I've read countless posts here about how he doesn't gel with many people and can be someone who can rub others the wrong way 

Although something like this from @binman can be brushed aside or taken with a pinch of salt, it is very rare that I see Viney really get around players or vice versa. 

It seems odd given his dedication to the club. 

22 hours ago, Mr Steve said:

He has been back for two games, give him time. 

I agree, but maybe those two games should be at Casey 

1 hour ago, WA Demon Boy said:

Interesting. 

There seems to be a lot of noise that Jack isn't a 'team player' - I've read countless posts here about how he doesn't gel with many people and can be someone who can rub others the wrong way 

Although something like this from @binman can be brushed aside or taken with a pinch of salt, it is very rare that I see Viney really get around players or vice versa. 

It seems odd given his dedication to the club. 

Still sooking it up 2 years later after losing the captaincy??

1 minute ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Still sooking it up 2 years later after losing the captaincy??

Haha surely not 

I don't think his ego is that big 

1 hour ago, WA Demon Boy said:

Interesting. 

There seems to be a lot of noise that Jack isn't a 'team player' - I've read countless posts here about how he doesn't gel with many people and can be someone who can rub others the wrong way 

Although something like this from @binman can be brushed aside or taken with a pinch of salt, it is very rare that I see Viney really get around players or vice versa. 

It seems odd given his dedication to the club. 

This was always a query i had about jack - ie how he connects with his teammates, and his singular focus

But I've changed my view on the importance of that stuff - and now actually think that  that singular focus is important. Every player brings their own thing and jacks one track focus, and will for the contest brings its own energy.

To me it was am extremely poor to select Jack with out a couple of games at Casey.  The Midfield was fine with out him, he should have built up touch and match fitness at Casey.

I don't believe we have a Jack Viney problem, but we certainly have a problem with overall team balance. Jack was okay against Essendon, less so against GWS, but will certainly improve with more match fitness.

The issue we have is that Viney & Harmes didn't play in the same side between round 2 & round 14. Now we have both playing significant midfield minutes, and that is taking midfield time away from others. All the combinations that were working early in the year have been broken up, and the new combinations are yet to gel.

Now we have pushed Petracca forward more, where he is capable but not at his most dangerous; Jordon on to a wing where he is having little impact and is also reducing Brayshaw's effectiveness; Sparrow is inexplicably getting midfield minutes when he is a complete liability in there, and we have to manage Oliver and Viney who can't play anywhere but the midfield. The answer is clearly to remove Sparrow from the equation, and perhaps Harmes needs to spend more time forward unless he has a defensive role to play.

Our other key issue is that Jackson is critical to our overall structure, but is contributing nothing as a forward.  He has been good in the ruck, but Gawn was conspicuously absent from the centre square for much of Saturday's game.That is certainly not ideal.

I felt Jack was poor defensively in the Essendon game. Not at stoppage, but in transition. Got caught in the wrong position 2 or 3 times that cost us scores. I'm sure this was down to a lack of fitness, but if that's the case, he should have been eased back.

I'll trust the professional medicos, and it's extremely clear that internally he is rated highly by our coaches, but I find Jack a bit of an enigma. He can bring some excellent attributes to our midfield and he has played some of the great games I've seen from a Melbourne player in 30 years, but his great games might be 2 or 3 a season, and then the majority of his games are middling to ordinary performances around that IMO. 

Do we use Viney as more of a burst player now that he's 27 with a banged up body, or do we finally looking at playing him more forward? I'd love to know if he played more forward time earlier in the year. It felt like we'd got a bit of a better balance in our midfield in the first few games, because he'd rest forward and attend forward stoppages, but maybe I was just imaging there was more forward time?

2 minutes ago, A F said:

Do we use Viney as more of a burst player now that he's 27 with a banged up body, or do we finally looking at playing him more forward? I'd love to know if he played more forward time earlier in the year. It felt like we'd got a bit of a better balance in our midfield in the first few games, because he'd rest forward and attend forward stoppages, but maybe I was just imaging there was more forward time?

I had a fairly quick look through the heat maps earlier today as I was thinking the same thing, and it definitely did appear he was forward more often at the start of the year. The GWS game he was very much midfield.

Part of that potentially could be to do with our different game style now to then, but 100% agree we were better when he was forward a bit more. IMO he's massively improved in his forward delivery, it's still not amazing, but 100x better than what it was a couple of years ago, so having him forward, particularly as vice captain, seems a good move in that regard.

20 hours ago, WA Demon Boy said:

Play him forward? In what world?

He can't kick more than 40m, has 0 aerial skills, isn't nimble, hand to foot drop is slow and defenders would have a field day running off him. 

I genuinely hope we trade him. Might sounds harsh but he's going to be a liability and hurt us in the future. 

Or I hope young guys come in for Viney 


 

It is noticeable that he is an enthusiast of the 'kick it to me' syndrome; if this is done in a fast series of plays, Viney will stop that flow as he receives the ball (from a mark or free) to make sure the crowd realises he has the ball (well, congratulations) and thus, we lose that initial flow/run/ball movement speed just long enough for the opposition backs to run back into position - advantage of 'team' excellence and forward innovation wasted in his hands.