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COVID & AFL 2021

Demonland
in Melbourne Demons

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35 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

I'd like to thank everyone for the contributions they've made to this thread because in the main it's been very informative (for me anyway) and civil.

My apologies if this has been mentioned but there was an open letter to The Australian from a group of Health Professions regarding the merits of AZ v Pfizer.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/science/only-real-options-are-vaccination-or-risk-death-by-delta/news-story/8ade3ec715c5fdd88694534c2d251ecc

It's probably behind a paywall but there is a table in it saying that against the Delta variant both vaccines are equally effective once both doses are administered.  Any comments or counter views?

FTR I'm due my second AZ dose in a couple of weeks time.  Given Superunknown's comment above regarding the reaction of his wife to the second Pfizer dose AZ seems a good option to me.  In addition AZ is a "traditional" vaccine where we have more experience with outcomes.  Pfizer being mRNA is new.  Who knows what the longer term experiences will be.  Or am I jumping at shadows?

Understandable to jump at shadows BB. You probably are but my attitude is what choice do we have. I have had  my 2 AZ shots. I can do no more. 

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    41 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

    I'd like to thank everyone for the contributions they've made to this thread because in the main it's been very informative (for me anyway) and civil.

    My apologies if this has been mentioned but there was an open letter to The Australian from a group of Health Professions regarding the merits of AZ v Pfizer.

    https://www.theaustralian.com.au/science/only-real-options-are-vaccination-or-risk-death-by-delta/news-story/8ade3ec715c5fdd88694534c2d251ecc

    It's probably behind a paywall but there is a table in it saying that against the Delta variant both vaccines are equally effective once both doses are administered.  Any comments or counter views?

    FTR I'm due my second AZ dose in a couple of weeks time.  Given Superunknown's comment above regarding the reaction of his wife to the second Pfizer dose AZ seems a good option to me.  In addition AZ is a "traditional" vaccine where we have more experience with outcomes.  Pfizer being mRNA is new.  Who knows what the longer term experiences will be.  Or am I jumping at shadows?

    Firefox offers extensions to bypass the Australia/HS paywall

    It compares hospitalisation, ICU and mortality reduction rates for both Pfizer and AZ comparatively, and makes clear they are equally as effective.

    My wife's example is n=1, statistically irrelevant, included only as a vignette.

     

    Edited by Superunknown

    • Like 1
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    I think Israel is the best case study for Pfizer. It’s struggling against Delta and now they are doing booster shots for over 60s. It looks like Pfizer wears off quicker than AZ. Both are still quite effective in stopping you from getting very sick and dying and that is the main point. We need vaccines so people don’t die or get hospitalized with Covid. People can get mild symptoms and we all move on with our lives because it becomes another type of cold and flu. It’s the fact that so many people get so ill that’s the issue. 
    The only benefit of being so far behind our vaccination program here is we are learning what works and what doesn’t from everyone else. There are now studies into mixed vaccinations and booster shots.  I’m sure once we all get two jabs we will need to get a third one next year. Maybe of the same vaccine we’ve already had or maybe of something totally different or new. 
    Novanex studies seem really promising on Delta but they are small studies still. 

    • Like 3
     
    14 hours ago, Brownie said:

    I'm only bringing mine forward by two weeks. Had the first shot in late May.

    Was a bit wonky for a day and a half.

    I've heard the second AZ shot is easier.

    Not risking it any longer than I need to.

    Had both mine and no problems at all  

    4 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

    Firefox offers extensions to bypass the Australia/HS paywall

    My wife's example is n=1, statistically irrelevant, included only as a vignette.

     

    What are the extensions?  I use Firefox.


    28 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

    The last 48 hours has certainly stripped me of any confidence or excitement about finals being played in Melbourne.

    It will be hard for Victorians to get into WA with the confidence that they won't be subjected to 14 days of quarantine even once they're already there.

    Ultimately I'm sure the AFL doesn't care who is in the crowd provided they can play finals in front of a crowd. If that means 50,000 WA people sit in a GF played between Melbourne and Geelong for example, I doubt the AFL will care.

    I feel the same tu. In fact it is stripping me of interest in footy I feel like with all the problems facing us but particularly the young I just feel numb most of the time. 

    I had my second AZ shot last week and have experienced no side effects whatsoever.

    My GP noted that the number of people coming down with the flu this season has decreased dramatically as a result of the mask wearing and frequent hand sanitising that has been occurring as a response to COVID.

    Another side benefit is the reported decrease in the crime rate with people staying at home more often.

    20 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

    No shadows at all, BB.  I am surprised how little discussion there has been about this regarding the relative benefits of different vaccines.

    From what I have read, mRNA has not been used for human vaccines before whereas the AZ technology has an established vaccine history for humans.  For that reason alone I am very happy to have AZ.  I have decided that when boosters are needed I will go for AZ for that reason.  Also, I prefer to stick with one technology than 'mix m match' - who knows what the future consequences of such is.  I believe few in the media understand this difference.

     

    On a related note moderna-says-its-covid-19-shot-maintains-high-efficacy-after-six-months.  Moderna, like Pfizer is an mRNA technology.  Extracts: 

    "Moderna says its COVID-19 vaccine is about 93 per cent effective through to six months after the second dose, showing hardly any "change from the 94 per cent efficacy reported in its original clinical trial.

    It compares favourably to data from Pfizer and BioNTech last week that showed their vaccine’s efficacy waned about 6 per cent every two months, declining to around 84 per cent six months after the second shot.

    While the shots are similar, they are not identical. Moderna’s doses contain 100 micrograms of vaccine, while Pfizer’s contain 30 micrograms".

    I foresee when the media clue on to this they will start spruiking Moderna over Pfizer and we will see another good vaccine demand fall and people start chasing Moderna.

    For mine, I will stick with the 'tried and true' of AZ and take my chances. .

    You have my vote LH

     
    25 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

    With all the doom and gloom over the couple of days, I'm quite happy to take a gallant prelim loss and then take the next step into a 2022 grand final, when things are back to normal.

    Love your optimism, but in 2020 this is how we imagined 2021. 😞 

    Mmmm, I have 2 vaccinations (allegedly Pfizer) - I say allegedly as I just jumped on my mygov website this morning- and it says I've had my 2 AZ shots... 

    WTF.

    • Haha 3
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    My preference from the start was Astra because its tried and tested technology. Can't believe the stupidity of demonising this vaccine. If it was good enough for the UK it's good enough for us.

    • Like 2
    34 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

    What are the extensions?  I use Firefox.

    Bypass Firewalls

    https://github.com/iamadamdev/bypass-paywalls-chrome/blob/master/README.md

    I also use AdBlock and uBlock Origin - very effective for obvious reasons.

    Facebook container good, too. Keeps your FB activity in a container/prevents FB tracking.

    (Duck Duck Go Browser on iOS also aggressively blocks tracking).

    • Thanks 2
    18 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

    Mmmm, I have 2 vaccinations (allegedly Pfizer) - I say allegedly as I just jumped on my mygov website this morning- and it says I've had my 2 AZ shots... 

    WTF.

    @Baghdad Bob @ANG13 

    You'd think it's funny - but they've got consultation dates wrong, and the vaccine wrong on the paperwork

    I'm not jumping to the conclusion (ok, maybe a little bit) that I've been given the wrong vaccination... I am wholly hoping it is an administrative error.

    Perhaps you're laughing at the shambles that is this government :mahoney2:

    22 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

    Mmmm, I have 2 vaccinations (allegedly Pfizer) - I say allegedly as I just jumped on my mygov website this morning- and it says I've had my 2 AZ shots... 

    WTF.

    Maybe your Pfizer doses are still sitting in a fridge at Windy Hill.


    Just looked at today's numbers in NSW. 44 in ICU. None of them fully vaccinated.

    Draw your own conclusions.

    • Like 3
    48 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

    I had my second AZ shot last week and have experienced no side effects whatsoever.

    My GP noted that the number of people coming down with the flu this season has decreased dramatically as a result of the mask wearing and frequent hand sanitising that has been occurring as a response to COVID.

    Another side benefit is the reported decrease in the crime rate with people staying at home more often.

    Bring back the flu and home break ins! 😂

    • Like 1
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    8 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

    @Baghdad Bob @ANG13 

    You'd think it's funny - but they've got consultation dates wrong, and the vaccine wrong on the paperwork

    I'm not jumping to the conclusion (ok, maybe a little bit) that I've been given the wrong vaccination... I am wholly hoping it is an administrative error.

    Perhaps you're laughing at the shambles that is this government :mahoney2:

    I was laughing at the errors, not your situation.  At least you're vaccinated and it's recorded as such so you're as safe as you can be.

    I don't think there is a government in the world dealing with this situation that is getting their record keeping right.  It's not ideal but it's not easy.  Until you know what caused the error it's difficult to allocate responsibility. 

     

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    2 hours ago, rpfc said:

    I think everyone has to get their head around at least a prelim that you won’t be able to go to if you live in Melbourne.

    These are the cards that the AFL has been dealt and I would say there I such a slim chance of a PF/GF at the G that you should steel yourself for it not to happen.

    I am so sorry in both senses of the word and I have missed my fair share of Dees footy over the past decade that I have a callous toward the pain - but as the saying goes - Go Dees.

    rp

    I can't see the finals happening in Melbourne at this point. I'm resigned to the fact I'll be watching on TV, probably while they happen in Perth.

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    I have that many cancelled holidays my Jetstar vouchers are maybe going to be enough to pay for me to fly to Perth and watch us play finals. 
    In 2018 the cost of flights to Perth for our prelim were more expensive than the cost of flights to Singapore. 


    Resigned to the fact we won't get to watch Melbourne in a Grand Final this year. 

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    For those who are vaccine connoisseurs (a phrase used to describe vaccine shoppers in Brazil) it seems Moderna is now the favourite.

    Similar initial efficacy to Pfizer but after 6 months still at 94% against Pfizer around 84%.

    Oh to have such choices...

    Meanwhile my friends in Asia are so happy to have Sinovac which barely cracks 50% and is rather weak after 3-4 months. 

    https://www.theage.com.au/world/north-america/moderna-says-its-covid-19-shot-maintains-high-efficacy-after-six-months-20210806-p58gby.html

    • Like 1
    1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

    If VIC somehow goes a month without community transmission by mid September, WA should open their borders to VIC with unrestricted travel. That would be consistent with what McGowan did in early July. 

    My concern is that WA opens the border, Victorians head over to Perth, but a subsequent outbreak means WA says "if you've been in Vic in the last 14 days you go into quarantine" or similar.

     
    57 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

    @Baghdad Bob @ANG13 

    You'd think it's funny - but they've got consultation dates wrong, and the vaccine wrong on the paperwork

    I'm not jumping to the conclusion (ok, maybe a little bit) that I've been given the wrong vaccination... I am wholly hoping it is an administrative error.

    Perhaps you're laughing at the shambles that is this government :mahoney2:

    Sorry not laughing at you but yes at the handling of your situation which sounds like a total mess. At least you are vaccinated. 

    • Like 1
    1 hour ago, BDA said:

    My preference from the start was Astra because its tried and tested technology. Can't believe the stupidity of demonising this vaccine. If it was good enough for the UK it's good enough for us.

    Not if you have had blood clots its not, Govt is refusing to budge and ill be buggered if i will sign an indemnity, given my history. Its Phizer or nothing at this stage


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