On 04/04/2021 at 23:47, old dee said:

Love your belief LH. I still think we need a tall key forward added to the mix. Either of the Browns are needed IMO. Sadly I think the mop top is still some weeks away. It is hard to change a winning combination. What I like about this year is that when one of our best players is down we seem to be able win in spite of that problem. Unless there are injuries I think there will be no change for the cats. 

I've believed all preseason, od:  Posted that we could be top 4 at end of H & A.  Still believe that.  Amidst the preseason doom and gloom on here and injuries as early excuses for a poor 2021, I predicted we would be 3 - 0.

Agree with you re a tall fwd but looking at the next 3 weeks none of Cats, Hawks or Tigers have a strong back 6 right now so lack of that tall shouldn't hurt us as much as if we were playing Eagles ,Pies or Power in the next 3 weeks.  Next 3 weeks are a great opportunity to bank a few more wins before we meet the in-form sides.  By which time I hope we have either/both Weideman/B 'Brown availalble.

So 6 -0 or 5 - 1 is definitely achievable.

Edited April 5, 20214 yr by Lucifer's Hero

  On 04/04/2021 at 13:20, Lord Nev said:

Metres gained isn't a stat I pay a lot of attention to tbh, especially for us. Using the ball well and applying pressure are the things I personally consider important in the context of our weaknesses as a team. I just think, if you can't do one well then you really need to nail the other one and currently Gus isn't doing either. I understand some may think I'm marking harshly, but I think he's a FAR better player than what he's shown so far this year, so it's a kind of tough love in a way.

I'd love to see him either become an elite ball user, particularly linking up forward OR become a running, pressure machine. Gut feel is he probably considers himself the former, but it's not clicking for him in that way so far. Hopefully he can sort out the kicking yips because if he reaches his potential playing in that role then we're next level dangerous.

Why not?

You've criticised Brayshaw for contributing nothing on that wing. Well, he's providing drive and is "linking up forward".

Seriously AFL, I get that there’s a game still to be played this round but get your priorities right, like informing us about ticketing for our huge game next week. 

Really enjoying our start to the year, there’s a spring in the step every Monday, the kids squabbling is now entertainment and how good to have a team most of us can start trusting that when the chips are down they will fight it out. There will be down days, hopefully few and far between.

  On 05/04/2021 at 00:02, titan_uranus said:

Why not?

You've criticised Brayshaw for contributing nothing on that wing. Well, he's providing drive and is "linking up forward".

Because it doesn't necessarily mean you're doing anything constructive with the ball. That's evidenced by his very poor kicking efficiency and turn over rate.

IMO metres gained is more of a 'combination stat', meaning it's only useful when you combine it with another stat like disposal efficiency, goal assists, kick retention rate or something like that. It's a bit like hitouts, doesn't mean much without context around it.

Also, please don't misquote me. I didn't say he "contributed nothing", I said he's a far better player than what he's showing so far this year.

Edited April 5, 20214 yr by Lord Nev

  On 04/04/2021 at 11:06, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Sad?....more like realistic. Have you been following this team for long? After what transpired tonight the players would of been better off not singing the song and discussed what could of quite easily been a loss. We got lucky with so many injuries to the Giants, still some repetitive areas of concern for us at the moment. It’s a long season, they’ll be plenty of other opportunities to sing the song. As I said, many won’t agree.

I kinda see where you’re coming from but this is a very harsh assessment BC. I don’t think our effort or application was at fault at all

We have not shown a ruthless streak yet but we’ve definitely taken some important steps to being more consistent and reliable. GWS challenged hard early. We responded which we haven’t done in previous seasons

We’re on a journey. It’ll be one step at a time and hopefully this team will eventually become a champion team like Richmond or Hawthorn. That’s where we should aim for but its too soon to expect complete performances just yet

Keep the strong opinions coming BC. Just think you’re off the mark with this one.

  On 04/04/2021 at 23:59, Lucifer's Hero said:

I've believed all preseason, od:  Posted that we could be top 4 at end of H & A.  Still believe that.  Amidst the preseason doom and gloom on here and injuries as early excuses for a poor 2021, I predicted we would be 3 - 0.

Agree with you re a tall fwd but looking at the next 3 weeks none of Cats, Hawks or Tigers have a strong back 6 right now so lack of that tall shouldn't hurt us as much as if we were playing Eagles ,Pies or Power in the next 3 weeks.  Next 3 weeks are a great opportunity to bank a few more wins before we meet the in-form sides.  By which time I hope we have either/both Weideman/B 'Brown availalble.

So 6 -0 or 5 - 1 is definitely achievable.

No Weid does not bother me but we need either of the browns. What is Wrong with Petracca kicking for goal two out of three weeks he hits the post from directly in front ? 

  On 04/04/2021 at 10:55, SPC said:

Meh 

You probably need to get stuck into some of those baked beans.

  On 05/04/2021 at 00:11, Better days ahead said:

I kinda see where you’re coming from but this is a very harsh assessment BC. I don’t think our effort or application was at fault at all

We have not shown a ruthless streak yet but we’ve definitely taken some important steps to being more consistent and reliable. GWS challenged hard early. We responded which we haven’t done in previous seasons

We’re on a journey. It’ll be one step at a time and hopefully this team will eventually become a champion team like Richmond or Hawthorn. That’s where we should aim for but its too soon to expect complete performances just yet

Keep the strong opinions coming BC. Just think you’re off the mark with this one.

Our kicking for goal is still terrible. We should have a percentage 10- 15% higher at present. However I love 3 from 3 wins take that easily. 

  On 05/04/2021 at 00:02, titan_uranus said:

Why not?

You've criticised Brayshaw for contributing nothing on that wing. Well, he's providing drive and is "linking up forward".

I thought Brayshaw had a good game and more than did his job. A real improvement

  On 04/04/2021 at 22:46, binman said:

Seriously?

Have you been watching us this year?

 Even rhe boneheaded commentators pointed out how less crowded we were than the saints for example. As evidenced by our incredible inside 50 to scoring ratio in that game (almost double of the saints).

Similarly we had an open forward line v the dockers and in both our practice games. 

Why was it so crowded against the giants? Because they played a spare back there and flooded back at every opportunity. Which was a big factor in their impotence after q time.

And for what it's worth I thought we did a good job of scoring against that flood. Some smart leads and passes, 17 tackles inside 50, kossie and max pushing forward (smart move by goodies- something else to disrupt the anti goodies narrative).

Sometimes I think people complain for the sake of complaining and are stuck in 12 month old preconceived critisms. 

 

No complaints but its been an ongoing problem Binman As you stated I'm sure the coaches are working on it but we don.t handle it well with 3or 4 players flying for the mark and never anybody goal side

Looks amateurish to me but maybe there are more Boneheads around than we know

  On 04/04/2021 at 14:57, Fanatique Demon said:

A good win, spoiled only by the shocking voice of Kelli Underwood. « He kicks down the loin »; « has he got spaaace and toim?» 

Fox should send her for elocution lessons. It would be well worthwhoil.

Elocution lessons?? Her diction is fine.

You've spent too long in France mate. The French snobbishness is rubbing off on you.

  On 04/04/2021 at 22:52, Pollyanna said:

Did you listen to Simon Goodwin' press conference - there is no way we're drinking the bathwater and he acknowledged we need to improve.

It was obvious the Giants would come hard with their season and coach's future on the line and they did.  But we were already back on even terms before Cogs went down.

Sure they had injuries but we had 3x the scoring shots and double their score after quarter time.

I agree with Goodwin we have a lot of room and scope for improvement but enjoy the win and the journey.

PS: we brought in some outrageous talent last year - Langdon, Jackson, Pickett and Rivers. Great list management.

No I didn’t listen to his press conference, I will later on today.

As I said on the previous page, yes we fought back but with our possessions and entries inside fifty we couldn’t put them away due to the way we brought the ball in and numerous missed set shots. We only really kicked away in the last when we run over the top of them. When we did lower our highs and hit up players like Fritsch we hit the scoreboard.

Put aside our forward fifty entries and some of our sets shots, the main concern for me was that we weren’t switched on early. The question I ask is why? Why weren’t we, as you’ve said we knew the Giants would come hard for us and they did. I believe had they not had their injuries we may have lost that game., we’ll never know. Early in the last it was back to under ten points. My suggestion was obviously shot down by the majority on here and that’s fine, I’m ok with that. But the question/s I put to you and everyone else who didn’t like my idea is, what’s the worst that could come out of the players not singing the club song after one game, instead going behind closed doors and speaking openly and honestly about why we weren’t switched and how if this doesn’t change there could well be a different result next time. Now compare that to what the positives could be if that was to happen. Someone has already suggested why does this have to be in place of the team song, why not after. Because I believe doing it then, while it’s fresh would have the greatest impact. I would also state that this should remain private, kick any non essential people out, close the doors and have a chat. When asked by the media what’s happening simply state the boy’s decided not to sing the instead they wanted to discuss key areas of the game in private. Also what other suggestions does anyone have as to why this keeps happening and how to fix it. Whatever we’ve been trying in recent years obviously hasn’t worked so why not try something different?
 

I acknowledge we arrested momentum last night as we did against the Saints but another theme across the last three weeks has been our disposal/entries inside fifty and our inaccuracy.

I did enjoy last nights win, I spent the majority of the game on the couch but as always when I’m watching from home I spend parts of the game standing. Like any win you take the points and move on, I acknowledge that the coaching staff are aware of the issue and that other areas of our game have dramatically improved but we can work on more than one part of our game at a time. I am like you and many others in that this team is a massive part of our lives during the footy season. I crave what we all do and that is sustained success, multiple premierships.

And yes the players you mention are all very exciting to watch, Kozi by far the standout, for a kid who’s only played 17 games he will continue to excite us for years to come (I remember sitting level 2 Punt Rd End when Aaron Davey appeared on the scene).

Edited April 5, 20214 yr by Bombay Airconditioning

  On 05/04/2021 at 00:17, old dee said:

Our kicking for goal is still terrible. We should have a percentage 10- 15% higher at present. However I love 3 from 3 wins take that easily. 

BB and Weid to come back in so set shot conversion should improve.

Delighted with 3-0 as well. Can't wait to take on the cats.

  On 04/04/2021 at 14:57, Fanatique Demon said:

A good win, spoiled only by the shocking voice of Kelli Underwood. « He kicks down the loin »; « has he got spaaace and toim?» 

Fox should send her for elocution lessons. It would be well worthwhoil.

Yes her drawl is very irritating

But Dermie's commentary was just as big a turn off

  On 05/04/2021 at 00:08, Lord Nev said:

Because it doesn't necessarily mean you're doing anything constructive with the ball. That's evidenced by his very poor kicking efficiency and turn over rate.

IMO metres gained is more of a 'combination stat', meaning it's only useful when you combine it with another stat like disposal efficiency, goal assists, kick retention rate or something like that. It's a bit like hitouts, doesn't mean much without context around it.

Also, please don't misquote me. I didn't say he "contributed nothing", I said he's a far better player than what he's showing so far this year.

Jeepers, just paraphrasing. From memory you described him last week as "filling space". Feels akin to "contributing nothing", but anyway, semantics.

So he had our third most metres gained. He also had our sixth most defensive half pressure acts (Salem, Oliver, Rivers, Viney, Sparrow ahead). And our fourth most intercepts, including our second-highest intercept marks. He floated forward for a goal, too.

Again, nothing spectacular, but a decent performance IMO, and a sign he's building into his role.

  On 05/04/2021 at 00:45, Bombay Airconditioning said:

No I didn’t listen to his press conference, I will later on today.

As I said on the previous page, yes we fought back but with our possessions and entries inside fifty we couldn’t put them away due to the way we brought the ball in and numerous missed set shots. We only really kicked away in the last when we run over the top of them. When we did lower our highs and hit up players like Fritsch we hit the scoreboard.

Put aside our forward fifty entries and some of our sets shots, the main concern for me was that we weren’t switched on early. The question I ask is why? Why weren’t we, as you’ve said we knew the Giants would come hard for us and they did. I believe had they not had their injuries we may have lost that game., we’ll never know. Early in the last it was back to under ten points. My suggestion was obviously shot down by the majority on here and that’s fine, I’m ok with that. But the question/s I put to you and everyone else who didn’t like my idea is, what’s the worst that could come out of the players not singing the club song after one game, instead going behind closed doors and speaking openly and honestly about why we weren’t switched and how if this doesn’t change there could well be a different result next time. Now compare that to what the positives could be if that was to happen. Someone has already suggested why does this have to be in place of the team song, why not after. Because I believe doing it then, while it’s fresh would have the greatest impact. I would also state that this should remain private, kick any non essential people out, close the doors and have a chat. When asked by the media what’s happening simply state the boy’s decided not to sing the instead they wanted to discuss key areas of the game in private. Also what other suggestions does anyone have as to why this keeps happening and how to fix it. Whatever we’ve been trying in recent years obviously hasn’t worked so why not try something different?
 

I acknowledge we arrested momentum last night as we did against the Saints but another theme across the last three weeks has been our disposal/entries inside fifty and our inaccuracy.

I did enjoy last nights win, I spent the majority of the game on the couch but as always when I’m watching from home I spend parts of the game standing. Like any win you take the points and move on, I acknowledge that the coaching staff are aware of the issue and that other areas of our game have dramatically improved but we can work on more than one part of our game at a time. I am like you and many others in that this team is a massive part of our lives during the footy season. I crave what we all do and that is sustained success, multiple premierships.

And yes the players you mention are all very exciting to watch, Kozi by far the standout, for a kid who’s only played 17 games he will continue to excite us for years to come (I remember sitting level 2 Punt Rd End when Aaron Davey appeared on the scene).

Did Geelong, Hawthorn or Richmond ever refuse to sign the song after any of their wins during their respective dynasties?

What you're arguing is that by singing the song they're incapable of critiquing their performance or reviewing the game. That is patently ridiculous.

There's no statement to make or signal to send by not signing the song. If anything, it will get people riled up that we have rifts between players and coaches. Wins are to be enjoyed. It's why people play football. If you can't reconcile celebrating a win with getting better, then you'll never get there.

It's too early to get too excited, although the signs are encouraging.

That said, does anyone feel like a peanut for carrying on like a dope when we lost a practice match in which 6 of last year's top 10 in the B&F were missing ?

  On 04/04/2021 at 23:35, Jaded said:

Absolute credit where it is due. He has been very very good. His gut running and defensive pressure has been incredible important and even his ball use has been much improved. 
Went from my “delist” pile to my “best 22” pile. 
If Hunt can improve his kicking, he will be not far behind. 

Yes Hunt who was always a keeper for me, played his best game so far this year. His run from the half back line will be important this year. 

Broad questions

If a team loses a match, and we are due to play them, why do supporters say 'they're going to come out fired up' - but not hold the same view when Melbourne loses a match?

If a team has a better first quarter, why does that mean we weren't switched on? Surely the other team has agency? Surely they're skilled and drilled as well, we're not playing against schoolboys...

 

  On 05/04/2021 at 01:09, Engorged Onion said:

Broad questions

If a team loses a match, and we are due to play them, why do supporters say 'they're going to come out fired up' - but not hold the same view when Melbourne loses a match?

If a team has a better first quarter, why does that mean we weren't switched on? Surely the other team has agency? Surely they're skilled and drilled as well, we're not playing against schoolboys...

 

I think it’s a mixture of MFCSS, confirmation bias and self-serving bias.

  On 05/04/2021 at 00:45, Bombay Airconditioning said:

No I didn’t listen to his press conference, I will later on today.

As I said on the previous page, yes we fought back but with our possessions and entries inside fifty we couldn’t put them away due to the way we brought the ball in and numerous missed set shots. We only really kicked away in the last when we run over the top of them. When we did lower our highs and hit up players like Fritsch we hit the scoreboard.

Put aside our forward fifty entries and some of our sets shots, the main concern for me was that we weren’t switched on early. The question I ask is why? Why weren’t we, as you’ve said we knew the Giants would come hard for us and they did. I believe had they not had their injuries we may have lost that game., we’ll never know. Early in the last it was back to under ten points. My suggestion was obviously shot down by the majority on here and that’s fine, I’m ok with that. But the question/s I put to you and everyone else who didn’t like my idea is, what’s the worst that could come out of the players not singing the club song after one game, instead going behind closed doors and speaking openly and honestly about why we weren’t switched and how if this doesn’t change there could well be a different result next time. Now compare that to what the positives could be if that was to happen. Someone has already suggested why does this have to be in place of the team song, why not after. Because I believe doing it then, while it’s fresh would have the greatest impact. I would also state that this should remain private, kick any non essential people out, close the doors and have a chat. When asked by the media what’s happening simply state the boy’s decided not to sing the instead they wanted to discuss key areas of the game in private. Also what other suggestions does anyone have as to why this keeps happening and how to fix it. Whatever we’ve been trying in recent years obviously hasn’t worked so why not try something different?
 

I acknowledge we arrested momentum last night as we did against the Saints but another theme across the last three weeks has been our disposal/entries inside fifty and our inaccuracy.

I did enjoy last nights win, I spent the majority of the game on the couch but as always when I’m watching from home I spend parts of the game standing. Like any win you take the points and move on, I acknowledge that the coaching staff are aware of the issue and that other areas of our game have dramatically improved but we can work on more than one part of our game at a time. I am like you and many others in that this team is a massive part of our lives during the footy season. I crave what we all do and that is sustained success, multiple premierships.

And yes the players you mention are all very exciting to watch, Kozi by far the standout, for a kid who’s only played 17 games he will continue to excite us for years to come (I remember sitting level 2 Punt Rd End when Aaron Davey appeared on the scene).

I think you will find that singing the team song is actually mandatory under agreements with the AFL/media.

The boys just sang the song but there was no real "gusto" to it.   It was a good solid win, but they were not singing it like they would in a really tough match that went to the line.   

They will be reviewing the game and there will be lots of "learnings", it is madness to think that they would not be looking at things we did well, and also putting spotlight on things we did not do so well.

Notice the changes after 1st quarter? It was massive that we denied them the use of the middle of the ground for most of the next 3 quarters.   We allowed them to get their 1st kicks wide to a random player, then pushed them to kick to a contest long down the wing.

Vs Geelong we probably will need to defend that 1st easy option, as they have better kicking skills, and they will just do lead up 20 m passes all day if we give them too much latitude.

Lastly, as a team that have not regularly been able to win vs better or worse teams with any sort of consistency, we need to simply build momentum/belief. It would be crazy to not allow them to sing the team song or bask in a win for at least the evening.   WInning games is tough.  This would have been a loss in last few years, the players are showing a resolve to at least put in maximum effort.  The skills will improve as the confidence grows.  Enjoy the journey, we will continue to evolve!

  On 04/04/2021 at 13:54, Hellish Inferno said:

Perfect - thanks!

  On 04/04/2021 at 12:07, Pates said:

Watching Gawn kick goals. It's just fun to see, still needs to work on his set shot kicking though.

Agree with all of your comments but the above is a matter for just that little bit of discussion. Gawn will be playing forward for more minutes in his gametime in weeks to come. His set shots have a fault, confirmed from close observation: he does not guide the ball to his foot (possibly because it is so far away from his brain) but instead, lets go of the ball in the process of laterally extending his arms, sideways. Dependence on the force of gravity rather than a 'guiding' single-handed and lower drop, the ball moves from too high 'as a drop', subject to the vagueries of gravitational roll forward and sideways. It would be lucky to hit his foot square on, and each time he sees the ball off-centre, he adjusts with his leg swing at the last microsecond. The ball splays in the direction of this leg movement on (and just after) the impact. He misses the goal by a bee's kcid. He does need a more 'hand-guided' delivery to the foot and a reduced 'whole' leg movement, relying instead and concentrating on the extension of the knee alone to 'steer' in line with the big sticks. Cute little Melksham 'leg swings' are not Gawny's forte. However, he got a few quite correctly in last night's game, so well done!

 

Imagine if a team ever actually did just stand in the circle and talk some “truths” after a win. What a barrel of laughs those rooms would be.

  On 05/04/2021 at 01:09, Engorged Onion said:

Broad questions

If a team loses a match, and we are due to play them, why do supporters say 'they're going to come out fired up' - but not hold the same view when Melbourne loses a match?

If a team has a better first quarter, why does that mean we weren't switched on? Surely the other team has agency? Surely they're skilled and drilled as well, we're not playing against schoolboys...

 

Hmm good question.  

I reckon we have been so flaky in the past that our lack of effort and consistency within games we just respected the opposition way too much, or expected to win.  Quite often we "allowed" opposition teams to play at their best.

As to why we don't come fired up, i think quite simply we played as individuals and quite often the effort was not there.  From contest to contest, from quarter to quarter, we could dish up anything and everything. Zero consistency.

In the past few seasons, even all during 2018 we had this mentality of winning clearances at the cost of having structure.   I commented a few times that our midfielders played like U12's with their mentality to all get around the ball, then play pass the parcel.  We were so easy to play against, teams worked out pressure us and they will fall to pieces.

There seems to be a resolve this year to do everything better.  Play as a team, trust your teammates, have an adaptable game plan to name a few.  Finally starting to feel like a team we can "trust."